I think more like a group of fundies whose idea of "science" is closing their eyes, plugging their ears, and yelling "la, la, la, la" whenever anything that doesn't agree with their theology comes up in the discussion.
Dinosaurs that cohabitate with men? Noah's ark cruising through the Grand Canyon? The entire fossil record just a huge error?
These are the notions of committed, faithful, religionists, but science has NOTHING to do with it...
I think more like a group of fundies whose idea of "science" is closing their eyes, plugging their ears, and yelling "la, la, la, la" whenever anything that doesn't agree with their theology comes up in the discussion.
Dinosaurs that cohabitate with men? Noah's ark cruising through the Grand Canyon? The entire fossil record just a huge error?
These are the notions of committed, faithful, religionists, but science has NOTHING to do with it...
I agree with you in part, both in scientific circles and religious circles, people try to squeeze everything into their own limited way of thinking.
However, IMO there are good arguments out there for creation science. Although some of these guys get a little egocentric like vpw, I would like to see more of there arguments brought to public attention and scientific scrutinity.
Evolution is commonly presented as the only possibility. No exeperiment I'm aware of has proven it.
I could go on and on. . .
I look forward to visiting some of these museums someday.
Actually I took the seminar, "Answers in Genesis" taught by Dr. Ken Ham whose baby this museum is. It made quite a bit of sense to me. I think "Evolution is science and therefiore has to be the truth" is every bit as much a knee-jerk reaction as anything else.
. . "Evolution is science and therefiore has to be the truth" . . .
There's a loaded statement. Is evolution, science? Is science, truth?
A true scientist knows that we know nothing with absolute certainty. There's examples of scientific theories standing as a fact for hundreds of years before being disproven. Sometimes things turn out to be true after many decades of being rejected.
IMO, "science vs religion" issues are absurdly narrow arguments. I don't think they really have much to do with science or religion.
anyway yak yak yak
here ya go Bolshevik..
I realy enjoy these folks..
These guy's take it very serious..www.reasons.org these guy's have a talk show as well. an a huge amount of audio topics as well. thanks be to Tbone:)
Nice thing about the science behind evolution is that, as new evidence comes into play, and things are proven/disproven, evolutionists (by and large) adust their views and adapt their findings to match the more solid evidence. (It kinda _evolves_ that way. )
I have *yet* to see _any_ Creationist or ID proponent change their views to match substantial and consistant evidence, particularly if it challenges Scripture! Especially if it challenges Scripture. ... Ie., they will go _no farther_ than the bounderies set by the Bible, no matter what.
I know of what I speak in this regard, as I had that very same "It's what the Bible *says*, therefore its true" mindset before I dared to think _outside_ that box.
Like an Eagle. It looks awesome. Thanks for the link. I'll be checking it out later when I have time. This is right up my alley! And shame on some of the juvenile replies.
Dang, I don't know about anyone else, but I was out to stir things up a LOT.
"I think these guys are high school run aways"
How amazingly perceptive, LAE. You must really be tight with God. Truth be known, LAE, I did drop out of high school to help support my family. My apologies for not having the Norman Rockwell life you must have had. Could that be why you were involved in a cult?
"and have no place to call home"
Well, it's been a while since I've been homeless, but that was over twenty years ago (while I was living the "more abundant life" courtesy of the evil empire (TWI).
Well, sort of. My test for insanity involves a highly refined test. It involves watching a video of an hysterical (I think) comedian. If the person taking the test laughs, they are not insane. However......
I actually remember when these scientists were still gathering the information for thier museum. I was asked to donate to help put it up. I didn't have the money at the time but I did consider it, if for nothing more than allowing people to see a different point of view. I give them credit they have the huevos to put their research and beliefs on display for anyone to consider. I would like to see the finished product in the near future.
Cool Eyeswideopen- Its good to see things up close and the heart and dedication to the efforts ...even to think about a museum that defy's mans intellect..Pretty brave folks..I must be a bible fan:)
Sushi- realy, I had no idea..I just called it as I saw it..so sorry to hear about your past..thank God for what you have...now
The nice thing about museums is that they give you a chance to experience other viewpoints in one spot. It has nothing to do with the validity of the viewpoint and everything to do with living in the great country we do where the freedom to express and promote ideas is extended to everyone.
And who knows, even if you never embrace what this museum has to offer position wise, you will still possibly come away with a different understanding of why they believe what they do and maybe a few questions of your own, that you can find answers to at your leaisure.
Apparently Rottiegrrl thinks that the 3 Stooges are the high school runaways, ... altho' they do look quite a bit older than your usual high schooler.
But seriously, its one thing to want to make public 'an alternative viewpoint', of creation or anything else. But when you try to pawn that 'alternative viewpoint' as science, you will get the critical and challenging remarks and demands that you prove your point of view _as_ science, ... and apparently that causes some people to liken said tactics to that of 'high school runaways', and other 'you have offended my faith'-like comments.
Here's something to think about while stewing over all this. If we're going to bring up 'alternative explanations as to the origins of the universe' as having equal time with the evolutionary theory, ... then we ought to also include explanations such as the Hindu myths as to the creation of the heavens and the earth by Brahma, the Hindu God of Creation. Or the Greco-Roman creation tales of their gods and titans, along with why Atlas is carrying the world on his shoulders. Or the ancient Egyptian versions of the beginning, or ....
You can readily see the problem here of trying to include all these into a science class, whose job it is is NOT to give a democratic forum to all the differing opinions/beliefs/drug-induced trips/etc. as to how the earth came about. A philosophy or world religion class would be more suited for that approach. Not a science class.
And totally _lame_ (and desperate) arguments trying to make the evolution theory as one 'based on faith' isn't going to do it either. That's just an attempt to downplay evolution by going the "See? They aren't any different than a religion! They are taking it on nothing more than faith too!" equivocation approach. People who buy into that line of crap have _no_ idea as to what constitutes evolution, the scientific meaning of the word 'theory', or the scientific approach.
Its a Fred Flintstone view of the prehistoric. People and diosaurs were all living together. In a link from a review by the New York Times:
<B><I><font color=maroon>.."Fossils, the museum teaches, are no older than Noah’s flood; in fact dinosaurs were on the ark."</font></I></B>
You gotta' admit.. that's kind of odd. For the full article click <a href=http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/arts/24crea.html><B><font color=red>HERE!</font></B></a>
<center>sudo</center>
a bunch of animals on a big boat and a big flood. That is weird.
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George Aar
"A group of scientists"?
I think more like a group of fundies whose idea of "science" is closing their eyes, plugging their ears, and yelling "la, la, la, la" whenever anything that doesn't agree with their theology comes up in the discussion.
Dinosaurs that cohabitate with men? Noah's ark cruising through the Grand Canyon? The entire fossil record just a huge error?
These are the notions of committed, faithful, religionists, but science has NOTHING to do with it...
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Sudo
Likeaneagle,
Its a Fred Flintstone view of the prehistoric. People and diosaurs were all living together. In a link from a review by the New York Times:
.."Fossils, the museum teaches, are no older than Noah’s flood; in fact dinosaurs were on the ark."
You gotta' admit.. that's kind of odd. For the full article click HERE!
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likeaneagle
I never got that impression from the program at all..
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Bolshevik
I agree with you in part, both in scientific circles and religious circles, people try to squeeze everything into their own limited way of thinking.
However, IMO there are good arguments out there for creation science. Although some of these guys get a little egocentric like vpw, I would like to see more of there arguments brought to public attention and scientific scrutinity.
Evolution is commonly presented as the only possibility. No exeperiment I'm aware of has proven it.
I could go on and on. . .
I look forward to visiting some of these museums someday.
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likeaneagle
here ya go Bolshevik..
I realy enjoy these folks..
These guy's take it very serious..www.reasons.org these guy's have a talk show as well. an a huge amount of audio topics as well. thanks be to Tbone:)
I consider these guy's top ranking scientists..
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Watered Garden
Actually I took the seminar, "Answers in Genesis" taught by Dr. Ken Ham whose baby this museum is. It made quite a bit of sense to me. I think "Evolution is science and therefiore has to be the truth" is every bit as much a knee-jerk reaction as anything else.
WG
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Bolshevik
There's a loaded statement.
Is evolution, science? Is science, truth?
A true scientist knows that we know nothing with absolute certainty. There's examples of scientific theories standing as a fact for hundreds of years before being disproven. Sometimes things turn out to be true after many decades of being rejected.
IMO, "science vs religion" issues are absurdly narrow arguments. I don't think they really have much to do with science or religion.
anyway yak yak yak
thanks :)
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GarthP2000
Only if these guys are .....
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Bolshevik
If you think creation science is weird (and some of it is) don't forget evolutionist come up with wild stuff too. Remember Lamarck?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_of_acquired_traits
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GarthP2000
Nice thing about the science behind evolution is that, as new evidence comes into play, and things are proven/disproven, evolutionists (by and large) adust their views and adapt their findings to match the more solid evidence. (It kinda _evolves_ that way.
)
I have *yet* to see _any_ Creationist or ID proponent change their views to match substantial and consistant evidence, particularly if it challenges Scripture! Especially if it challenges Scripture. ... Ie., they will go _no farther_ than the bounderies set by the Bible, no matter what.
I know of what I speak in this regard, as I had that very same "It's what the Bible *says*, therefore its true" mindset before I dared to think _outside_ that box.
Amazing what you can learn when you do. ;)
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Sushi
This one's for Garth, Sudo, and George (my fellow heretics
)
(As always, Mr. Black uses what some would deem 'bad' language, so be ye forewarned)
HERE!
Btw, if anyone would be willing to teach me how to embed, I would greatly appreciate it)
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GarthP2000
"I would like to believe that it (the creation) took place in 7 days but, ... I have thoughts. And that can really **** up the faith thing."
Thanks for the laugh, Sushi!
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RottieGrrrl
Like an Eagle. It looks awesome. Thanks for the link. I'll be checking it out later when I have time. This is right up my alley! And shame on some of the juvenile replies.
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Sushi
Would mine be one of the ones that has shame on it?
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Abigail
If so, I'd be happy to take care of that for you, Sushi
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likeaneagle
I think these guys are high school run aways and have no place to call home....just out to stir up things alittle..
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Sushi
"just out to stir up things alittle.."
Dang, I don't know about anyone else, but I was out to stir things up a LOT.
"I think these guys are high school run aways"
How amazingly perceptive, LAE. You must really be tight with God. Truth be known, LAE, I did drop out of high school to help support my family. My apologies for not having the Norman Rockwell life you must have had. Could that be why you were involved in a cult?
"and have no place to call home"
Well, it's been a while since I've been homeless, but that was over twenty years ago (while I was living the "more abundant life" courtesy of the evil empire (TWI).
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Eyesopen
I actually remember when these scientists were still gathering the information for thier museum. I was asked to donate to help put it up. I didn't have the money at the time but I did consider it, if for nothing more than allowing people to see a different point of view. I give them credit they have the huevos to put their research and beliefs on display for anyone to consider. I would like to see the finished product in the near future.
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Sushi
Oh, and by the by, LAE, you're just a big, POOPY head.
(edited for punctuation)
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likeaneagle
Cool Eyeswideopen- Its good to see things up close and the heart and dedication to the efforts ...even to think about a museum that defy's mans intellect..Pretty brave folks..I must be a bible fan:)
Sushi- realy, I had no idea..I just called it as I saw it..so sorry to hear about your past..thank God for what you have...now
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templelady
The nice thing about museums is that they give you a chance to experience other viewpoints in one spot. It has nothing to do with the validity of the viewpoint and everything to do with living in the great country we do where the freedom to express and promote ideas is extended to everyone.
And who knows, even if you never embrace what this museum has to offer position wise, you will still possibly come away with a different understanding of why they believe what they do and maybe a few questions of your own, that you can find answers to at your leaisure.
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RottieGrrrl
No Sushi you were definitly NOT one of the posts I was referring too!
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GarthP2000
Apparently Rottiegrrl thinks that the 3 Stooges are the high school runaways, ... altho' they do look quite a bit older than your usual high schooler.
But seriously, its one thing to want to make public 'an alternative viewpoint', of creation or anything else. But when you try to pawn that 'alternative viewpoint' as science, you will get the critical and challenging remarks and demands that you prove your point of view _as_ science, ... and apparently that causes some people to liken said tactics to that of 'high school runaways', and other 'you have offended my faith'-like comments.
Here's something to think about while stewing over all this. If we're going to bring up 'alternative explanations as to the origins of the universe' as having equal time with the evolutionary theory, ... then we ought to also include explanations such as the Hindu myths as to the creation of the heavens and the earth by Brahma, the Hindu God of Creation. Or the Greco-Roman creation tales of their gods and titans, along with why Atlas is carrying the world on his shoulders. Or the ancient Egyptian versions of the beginning, or ....
You can readily see the problem here of trying to include all these into a science class, whose job it is is NOT to give a democratic forum to all the differing opinions/beliefs/drug-induced trips/etc. as to how the earth came about. A philosophy or world religion class would be more suited for that approach. Not a science class.
And totally _lame_ (and desperate) arguments trying to make the evolution theory as one 'based on faith' isn't going to do it either. That's just an attempt to downplay evolution by going the "See? They aren't any different than a religion! They are taking it on nothing more than faith too!" equivocation approach. People who buy into that line of crap have _no_ idea as to what constitutes evolution, the scientific meaning of the word 'theory', or the scientific approach.
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Bolshevik
a bunch of animals on a big boat and a big flood. That is weird.
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