...Rascal, could their stalking be more obvious?...sheesh
For myself, they Way was a life changing experience, and not to a better life. I have looked back at decisions made due to my way beliefs, and actions I took, with regret. I saw good people--including myself, hubby and children--put in ugly, stressful situations by the demands of so called men of God who had no care or concern beyond their own image within TWI.
Being here helps me ferret out thoughts and practices I developed by being in TWI most of my adult life.
Some may think that is not okay, but I don't see how whitewashing by never thinking or speaking about negatives and telling myself how marvelous those years were would be of any value to me. What value is it to lie to yourself? Been there, done that.
I personally return here for several reasons. When I first started posting here I was confused, and angry and a bit apprehensive. But like many others the discussions that we engage in here at the Spot are revealing and enlightening and they help me to put the pieces back together. I don't always agree with some of the opinions or even the consensus conclusion, but they do help me figure out why I did what I did.
I still amazes me what we as members of the ministry did to ourselves in the name of our God or worse what we did to others in the name of our God. But understanding my willing participitation in my own "mistreatment" or the mistreatment of others helps me to understand what really happened to me and so many others. To realize that despite our ascertations that we were NOT involved in a cult we actually WERE involved in a cult, and we liked it (at least for a while). Some of us actually miss certain aspects of it (as attested to by many opinions expressed in various posts throughout GS).
But GS allows us to be heard by people that do understand us when we say, "I was out WOW..." or "In 19xx I joined the Corps..." or "It really bugged me to have to say 'Bless you' to everyone..." I could go on for days and we all know it. I mean who else in the world begins a bitcx letter to the Power Company by saying "God Bless you in the glorious name of Jesus Christ"? Seriously we really were just a bit over the edge. Here at GS we can laugh about that and cry as well. We can scream and kick our feet like two year olds if that is what we need to do, and someone will step up and laugh with you or hand you a hankie. Someone will be the sister or brother that God expects them to be and we will in turn do the same for someone else down the road. It is a family that we all belong to. Disagreements arise and often harsh words are spoken, but in the end if a person truly desires to grow beyond that which we all were in TWI then healing can take place and people can move on with their lives. But why leave GS behind when we do? It is here that we finally find a semblence of the family that we once were looking for when we went off to follow ole Vic or his teachings.
That is why I am here, I am still putting the pieces back together. My life is still pretty patchy and there are times when I will react to something using "Way brain". But I am healing and coming to a better understanding of myself, of where I have been, what I have done and where I want to be and what I want to do when I get there. But all in all there are many here on GS that I want to be there (even in cyberspace) when I reach my destination so they can share with me the fulfillment of a goal. So we as a family can share in each others triumphs, just as we have shared in each others pain.
To clarify my previous statement about levels.....lol actually I had been watching Shrek with the kids that afternoon, where he was bellowing at Donkey about ogres being like onions....they have LAYERS!
I was thinking about how there are layers or levels to our thinking process, our understanding....how as soon as we examine and resolve one issue, there is an underlying idea of facet that you never saw before, and only when that has been examined and addressed, and removed, can we see that there is yet another layer or level that was hidden from view by the previous layer.
This process can take years of peeling away the layers ...and just when you think that you have it all figured out, that you are at the heart of the matter, you discover that your current understanding is but yet another layer ....and you don`t realise it untill you see beyond that to the next layer that presents itself.....
Other Christian churches are not as all encompassing as TWI.
Any other church, can become the focal point of a person and/or their families lives. You can by choice limit yourself to only associating with those who are of your faith, only attending church functions, reading, listening, or viewing only church sanctioned books, music , tv, and movies. You can vote for only those that encompass your belief system, you can even find work with others of your faith. But in most churchs, this extensive interaction is optional.
TWI and other groups of its ilk, took the voluntary out of the process. For those in the 90's especially, TWI was so pervasive in the lives of its followers, that my understanding is that they even had to have a written down scheduled time for sexual relations with thier spouses and they then had to submit said schedules to their leadership for approval.
This kind of life, leaves no room for any "outside" involvement in any arena. Leaving this kind of organization means that it is not just chunks of your life that are being surrendered, but your entire life for the duration of your involvement.
TO have years of your life thus wrenched away is very traumatic. It is also impossible to explain to someone who has not experienced the same thing. Thus GSC is one of the few places ex-TWI can come and not have to spend hours explaining the who, what, and why, of the organization that is TWI but can just come right to the point of their particular issues.
The real reason I come here is to proclaim that twi was nothing more than an insideous cult that conned people and filled them with bullsh *t...Wierwille was a conman and Martindale was a jerk...
Sometimes I think there's far too many people here who would still be eating twi's crap for dinner if they hadn't been booted or left on their own because of the "sins of the leaders"...HA! Sins of the leaders?...These guys were playing you for a fool the whole time...wake up!...Go to church if that's what you need or keep your faith private (like I do)...or reject the whole kit and kaboodle (like others have done)...but for crying out loud, quit trying to reconcile the good old days (which never existed) to the bad old days (which did and still do exist)...it was always a con...from the first day that the cornfield preacher saw the snow on the gaspumps until he croaked from the devil spirit that got into his eyeball...
Personally, I've had a belly full of listening to all the "romanticizing" about the "werd" that was taught and the "great times that were had"...I'm sorry I ever wasted even one minute of my life with this bunch of losers...
"But I made some great friends Groucho"...Good for you, so did I...but I also made some great friends while I was eating LSD in the 60's and when I was working construction in the 80's...making good friends is beside the point. Let's examine what twi was and what it did to people...it SCREWED THEM UP!...it cost a lot of people a lot of things...
That's why I come here...to encourage people to throw out the bathwater, the baby and the bathtub too...get a life and move on...get over it...it was a waste of time...
Why don't you take your own advice? And BTW, why don't you learn how to spell or at least install a spelling program on your computer?
Exie's right - that wasn't nice at all...
Why don't you both stop tag-teaming on Rascal?
Honestly...
You know exactly what I'm talking about. This isn't the only thread where you've both done it. Rascal's statement isn't out of line - nor is her response to Johniam, if you read it. Your response, Jeaniam, is a personal attack - the lowest form of logic one can use in a debate. I would have thought better of you than that. Do you really want to come across as being a Pharasee? Especially after all we've all been though with legalism? Geez... lighten up already - we all need a break....
And Rascal - I thought of Shrek immediately when I read your post - we'd just watched the first one this weekend. It's not as easy as saying GET OVER IT - yet, we sorta do the more we hang around here, don't we? I don't see the same posters here in this forum who were were two or three or more years ago. That's because they've moved on or maybe there's other forums that interest them. In other words, I do understand Johniam's point, but perhaps he could have communicated it a little better, eh?
My observation - after 7 years of Waydale and Greasespot - people first frequent the "About the Way" forum a lot. They vent, rant, gripe, and most of all, decompress. They get into Friend Finder and some of the other threads that connect us all in different ways. But eventually, they seem to find their way to the Guitar Thread (just kidding) - seriously - they find their way to the other threads - perhaps it's music or movies or politics that tickle their fancy... There's something here for everyone now and such a diverse group. This is a rare forum - with little real drama in it. In short, it's a great place just to connect to REAL people. TWI is the common denominator but it's not the glue that keeps this place together. The glue is the sense of community or camaradrie this place can offer. It's not like other forums.... I post on about seven other forums - this is, by far, the most interesting, best moderated, and most diverse.
We've got it good here - and I think we know it.... :)
First things first, thank god there's an x-way site.. All the BS we were shoveled for so long, My God to when I was a small child, visits from VP were more anticipated than Santa Claus coming down the chimney.. "believers" would come and go so much you'd think my parents were running a flop house.. while every other "normal" family had paintings of jesus and prayer hands and such, we had VP on the wall with his dogs, Martindale's inauguration photos, dove's out the wazoo and pentecost sunday (a copy of the same from Emporia ) redamndiculous I tell you.. not being able to trick or treat when you're under 12 is more torture a child should be subjected to.. not to mention taking radio and tv away for 2 years.. and expecting the child to infiltrate normal social settings without being ridiculed and taunted for not knowing who the hell inspector gadget was.. moving 8 times in the same town 8 years because it was sacrilegious for corps to own a friggin house.. from birth in 1977 to shortly after high school graduation the Way was reluctantly my life and no one on the face of this earth could convince my parents otherwise.. until of course the reports and yet still limb overseers had to quit before my parents would begin to unplug..
But as we all know that's only the beginning.. it's like an Amish man flipping on his first light switch, outside the way.. you're nobody.. you have nothing, hell, you know nothing.. We were raised to believe we were BETTER than everyone else.. the chosen.. so when that chip is exposed for what it really is.. you are the epitome of lost
The whole "waking up" sequence of the Matrix illustrates so fluidly..
Several years since.. regaining lost time is infinite.. thank you to those responsible for the existence of this website..
lol now thinking back to how hush hush the content of Abundance and Power was supposed to stay.. I remember when craig " revealed the true workings of the original sin" .. I had to look in the back of the room at my mom like WTF!!?? thinking to myself this dude has lost it.. little did I know how right I was.. or rather he never had it..
Outstanding post AJern! Well said and welcome to the Spot! Sit back relax...you are now in the real world and allowed to do that without permission or filling out a report on your "free" time. Have some coffee, have a danish and just read anything and everything you want!
It would be fair to say that MOST of the people here spent a significant amount of life in the gulag from adolescence to later adulthood. Der vey defined how we communicated with each other, how we spent our time.. how to "date", or relate to the opposite sex.. defined marriage parameters.. and how we were to deal with and think about the dead.
and a lot of it has little relevance, in the "real world".
"Some of us" are so developmentally retarded, we may not have any other place to go..
I think if a person can make it out of that organization with a marriage intact.. with a somewhat functional setting.. it's not so bad..
but to start over again, I don't think der vey gave us the proper tools..
I've honestly prayed at times..
"God, don't let me die while I'm still so stinking ignorant.."
quote: John you completely mischaracterized my point in attempt to belittle my statement.
You are a big boy and I am certain, capable of legitimately making your own comments without lying about someone elses pov.
It is rediculous to think that you understand why myself or anybody else returns here or even more silly, what is healthy or acceptible for anybody else.
Please try to answere for yourself, as that is the only one who`s perspective and motive you are qualified to comment on.
DEAREST Rascal: This response reveals that you have allowed me to get inside your head...BIG TIME! Your choice, not mine. The reason I didn't respond to this sooner is that Jean and I and the kids have been vacationing in Washington DC for the past week. We stayed in an Extended Stay motel. They didn't have a computer room; just outlets for laptops, which we do not have. So this is the first time I've been on GSC since that post.
Jean told me that you tried to rip me a new one. She was just sticking up for me. As for that stuff about stalking and bullies; that's crap. You guys are just as abbrasive with us as we are with you. As for Jean's remark being not nice, I'll let her answer for herself.
Actually, Rascal, you way over reacted to my post. The night I posted that I was in a silly mood. I posted on 2 other threads in a similar tone. Can't remember yet where they are, but I was trying to be funny more than anything else. Five years or so ago I was having this conversation with a female believer (not Jean) and she was saying stuff about the differences between men and women. She said, IHO, that men like to just resolve a conflict and move on and not talk about it anymore, but women like to analyze it, as you say, one layer at a time. Women, IHO, don't want to resolve the conflict, they want to just keep talking about it and that's how they get their closure. That was the gist of what she said. It was then that I came up with the phrase 'see the pain, be the pain' as a summation of her statements. She wasn't offended at all. She thought it was funny. Perhaps you take yourself(s) too seriously.
The last place we saw in DC was the Jefferson memorial. Neat place. 20 ft tall statue of TJ surrounded by 4 clips from stuff he said. One of them emphasized the free expression of religion, both pro and con. That's GSC to me. One poster thinks TJ didn't even believe in God. Not true if those quotes in his memorial are accurate. One final thought.
There's a song by Cream that says "happiness is something that just cannot be bought". Don't know about that, but the Dec of Independence says happyness can be pursued, and that this is a good thing. By sheer logic, then so can misery. Rascal, I think you and some of your friends may well be deeply engrossed in the pursuit of misery. Why?
Well, considering that in that one post she made 15 errors in spelling and punctuation, maybe it was justified. Unfortunately, poor spelling and punctuation detract from the points she is trying to make, and cause her to look like an uneducated, or overemotional buffoon.
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Bramble
...Rascal, could their stalking be more obvious?...sheesh
For myself, they Way was a life changing experience, and not to a better life. I have looked back at decisions made due to my way beliefs, and actions I took, with regret. I saw good people--including myself, hubby and children--put in ugly, stressful situations by the demands of so called men of God who had no care or concern beyond their own image within TWI.
Being here helps me ferret out thoughts and practices I developed by being in TWI most of my adult life.
Some may think that is not okay, but I don't see how whitewashing by never thinking or speaking about negatives and telling myself how marvelous those years were would be of any value to me. What value is it to lie to yourself? Been there, done that.
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rascal
Exactly Bramble.
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Eyesopen
I personally return here for several reasons. When I first started posting here I was confused, and angry and a bit apprehensive. But like many others the discussions that we engage in here at the Spot are revealing and enlightening and they help me to put the pieces back together. I don't always agree with some of the opinions or even the consensus conclusion, but they do help me figure out why I did what I did.
I still amazes me what we as members of the ministry did to ourselves in the name of our God or worse what we did to others in the name of our God. But understanding my willing participitation in my own "mistreatment" or the mistreatment of others helps me to understand what really happened to me and so many others. To realize that despite our ascertations that we were NOT involved in a cult we actually WERE involved in a cult, and we liked it (at least for a while). Some of us actually miss certain aspects of it (as attested to by many opinions expressed in various posts throughout GS).
But GS allows us to be heard by people that do understand us when we say, "I was out WOW..." or "In 19xx I joined the Corps..." or "It really bugged me to have to say 'Bless you' to everyone..." I could go on for days and we all know it. I mean who else in the world begins a bitcx letter to the Power Company by saying "God Bless you in the glorious name of Jesus Christ"? Seriously we really were just a bit over the edge. Here at GS we can laugh about that and cry as well. We can scream and kick our feet like two year olds if that is what we need to do, and someone will step up and laugh with you or hand you a hankie. Someone will be the sister or brother that God expects them to be and we will in turn do the same for someone else down the road. It is a family that we all belong to. Disagreements arise and often harsh words are spoken, but in the end if a person truly desires to grow beyond that which we all were in TWI then healing can take place and people can move on with their lives. But why leave GS behind when we do? It is here that we finally find a semblence of the family that we once were looking for when we went off to follow ole Vic or his teachings.
That is why I am here, I am still putting the pieces back together. My life is still pretty patchy and there are times when I will react to something using "Way brain". But I am healing and coming to a better understanding of myself, of where I have been, what I have done and where I want to be and what I want to do when I get there. But all in all there are many here on GS that I want to be there (even in cyberspace) when I reach my destination so they can share with me the fulfillment of a goal. So we as a family can share in each others triumphs, just as we have shared in each others pain.
Just my opinion...
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rascal
To clarify my previous statement about levels.....lol actually I had been watching Shrek with the kids that afternoon, where he was bellowing at Donkey about ogres being like onions....they have LAYERS!
I was thinking about how there are layers or levels to our thinking process, our understanding....how as soon as we examine and resolve one issue, there is an underlying idea of facet that you never saw before, and only when that has been examined and addressed, and removed, can we see that there is yet another layer or level that was hidden from view by the previous layer.
This process can take years of peeling away the layers ...and just when you think that you have it all figured out, that you are at the heart of the matter, you discover that your current understanding is but yet another layer ....and you don`t realise it untill you see beyond that to the next layer that presents itself.....
I don`t know it made sense to me at the time.
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Eyesopen
It makes sense to me Rascal! And it is a good thing that I like onions!
'Cause this is gonna take some time, doncha know...
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rascal
Yeah, and THATS why it so much fun to have all of you guys around to participate in this process together :)
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Eyesopen
'Cause we like onions?
I really like blooming onions!
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templelady
Other Christian churches are not as all encompassing as TWI.
Any other church, can become the focal point of a person and/or their families lives. You can by choice limit yourself to only associating with those who are of your faith, only attending church functions, reading, listening, or viewing only church sanctioned books, music , tv, and movies. You can vote for only those that encompass your belief system, you can even find work with others of your faith. But in most churchs, this extensive interaction is optional.
TWI and other groups of its ilk, took the voluntary out of the process. For those in the 90's especially, TWI was so pervasive in the lives of its followers, that my understanding is that they even had to have a written down scheduled time for sexual relations with thier spouses and they then had to submit said schedules to their leadership for approval.
This kind of life, leaves no room for any "outside" involvement in any arena. Leaving this kind of organization means that it is not just chunks of your life that are being surrendered, but your entire life for the duration of your involvement.
TO have years of your life thus wrenched away is very traumatic. It is also impossible to explain to someone who has not experienced the same thing. Thus GSC is one of the few places ex-TWI can come and not have to spend hours explaining the who, what, and why, of the organization that is TWI but can just come right to the point of their particular issues.
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GrouchoMarxJr
The real reason I come here is to proclaim that twi was nothing more than an insideous cult that conned people and filled them with bullsh *t...Wierwille was a conman and Martindale was a jerk...
Sometimes I think there's far too many people here who would still be eating twi's crap for dinner if they hadn't been booted or left on their own because of the "sins of the leaders"...HA! Sins of the leaders?...These guys were playing you for a fool the whole time...wake up!...Go to church if that's what you need or keep your faith private (like I do)...or reject the whole kit and kaboodle (like others have done)...but for crying out loud, quit trying to reconcile the good old days (which never existed) to the bad old days (which did and still do exist)...it was always a con...from the first day that the cornfield preacher saw the snow on the gaspumps until he croaked from the devil spirit that got into his eyeball...
Personally, I've had a belly full of listening to all the "romanticizing" about the "werd" that was taught and the "great times that were had"...I'm sorry I ever wasted even one minute of my life with this bunch of losers...
"But I made some great friends Groucho"...Good for you, so did I...but I also made some great friends while I was eating LSD in the 60's and when I was working construction in the 80's...making good friends is beside the point. Let's examine what twi was and what it did to people...it SCREWED THEM UP!...it cost a lot of people a lot of things...
That's why I come here...to encourage people to throw out the bathwater, the baby and the bathtub too...get a life and move on...get over it...it was a waste of time...
...but that's just my humble opinion... :)
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excathedra
that wasn't very nice
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ChasUFarley
Exie's right - that wasn't nice at all...
Why don't you both stop tag-teaming on Rascal?
Honestly...
You know exactly what I'm talking about. This isn't the only thread where you've both done it. Rascal's statement isn't out of line - nor is her response to Johniam, if you read it. Your response, Jeaniam, is a personal attack - the lowest form of logic one can use in a debate. I would have thought better of you than that. Do you really want to come across as being a Pharasee? Especially after all we've all been though with legalism? Geez... lighten up already - we all need a break....
And Rascal - I thought of Shrek immediately when I read your post - we'd just watched the first one this weekend. It's not as easy as saying GET OVER IT - yet, we sorta do the more we hang around here, don't we? I don't see the same posters here in this forum who were were two or three or more years ago. That's because they've moved on or maybe there's other forums that interest them. In other words, I do understand Johniam's point, but perhaps he could have communicated it a little better, eh?
My observation - after 7 years of Waydale and Greasespot - people first frequent the "About the Way" forum a lot. They vent, rant, gripe, and most of all, decompress. They get into Friend Finder and some of the other threads that connect us all in different ways. But eventually, they seem to find their way to the Guitar Thread (just kidding) - seriously - they find their way to the other threads - perhaps it's music or movies or politics that tickle their fancy... There's something here for everyone now and such a diverse group. This is a rare forum - with little real drama in it. In short, it's a great place just to connect to REAL people. TWI is the common denominator but it's not the glue that keeps this place together. The glue is the sense of community or camaradrie this place can offer. It's not like other forums.... I post on about seven other forums - this is, by far, the most interesting, best moderated, and most diverse.
We've got it good here - and I think we know it.... :)
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AJern
First things first, thank god there's an x-way site.. All the BS we were shoveled for so long, My God to when I was a small child, visits from VP were more anticipated than Santa Claus coming down the chimney.. "believers" would come and go so much you'd think my parents were running a flop house.. while every other "normal" family had paintings of jesus and prayer hands and such, we had VP on the wall with his dogs, Martindale's inauguration photos, dove's out the wazoo and pentecost sunday (a copy of the same from Emporia ) redamndiculous I tell you.. not being able to trick or treat when you're under 12 is more torture a child should be subjected to.. not to mention taking radio and tv away for 2 years.. and expecting the child to infiltrate normal social settings without being ridiculed and taunted for not knowing who the hell inspector gadget was.. moving 8 times in the same town 8 years because it was sacrilegious for corps to own a friggin house.. from birth in 1977 to shortly after high school graduation the Way was reluctantly my life and no one on the face of this earth could convince my parents otherwise.. until of course the reports and yet still limb overseers had to quit before my parents would begin to unplug..
But as we all know that's only the beginning.. it's like an Amish man flipping on his first light switch, outside the way.. you're nobody.. you have nothing, hell, you know nothing.. We were raised to believe we were BETTER than everyone else.. the chosen.. so when that chip is exposed for what it really is.. you are the epitome of lost
The whole "waking up" sequence of the Matrix illustrates so fluidly..
Several years since.. regaining lost time is infinite.. thank you to those responsible for the existence of this website..
lol now thinking back to how hush hush the content of Abundance and Power was supposed to stay.. I remember when craig " revealed the true workings of the original sin" .. I had to look in the back of the room at my mom like WTF!!?? thinking to myself this dude has lost it.. little did I know how right I was.. or rather he never had it..
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ChasUFarley
Powerful post, AJern!
Welcome to the Cafe!
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JavaJane
Thanks for your post, Ajern, and welcome... Glad to see you here!
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outintexas
3,088th member! That says a lot. I think we outnumber twi.
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Eyesopen
Outstanding post AJern! Well said and welcome to the Spot! Sit back relax...you are now in the real world and allowed to do that without permission or filling out a report on your "free" time. Have some coffee, have a danish and just read anything and everything you want!
Love ya bro!
Oh and Jean that really wasn't very nice dear.
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Ham
Why do people keep coming back..
I think..
It would be fair to say that MOST of the people here spent a significant amount of life in the gulag from adolescence to later adulthood. Der vey defined how we communicated with each other, how we spent our time.. how to "date", or relate to the opposite sex.. defined marriage parameters.. and how we were to deal with and think about the dead.
and a lot of it has little relevance, in the "real world".
"Some of us" are so developmentally retarded, we may not have any other place to go..
I think if a person can make it out of that organization with a marriage intact.. with a somewhat functional setting.. it's not so bad..
but to start over again, I don't think der vey gave us the proper tools..
I've honestly prayed at times..
"God, don't let me die while I'm still so stinking ignorant.."
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Sunesis
I look at GS as the body of Christ talking among ourselves - the way it should have been in TWI.
It was for many of us, not like a college or school, but it was a total lifestyle, for me, from 15 to 33. It was our life.
I've been on other sites, but to me, this feels like home.
This is my herd, so to speak.
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Imagine
So may wonderful replies...
Thoughtful
Thought provoking
Funny
Clever
Perceptive
Goofy
Yeah! We get to spend an eternity together!
developmentally retarded with no where to fit in...I can relate..lol
This world is not my home, I have been held captive
btw, did I mention I am loving the Beth Moore studies I am taking?
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Belle
jean and john, you two are nothing but bullies. Your actions speak louder than any amount of words. Back off and grow up already! Geeze... <_<
AJern, WELCOME!! First round is on the house. You take your coffee straight up, or would you like some cream and sugar?
OutinTexas, I believe we probably DO outnumber TWI these days!
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johniam
quote: John you completely mischaracterized my point in attempt to belittle my statement.
You are a big boy and I am certain, capable of legitimately making your own comments without lying about someone elses pov.
It is rediculous to think that you understand why myself or anybody else returns here or even more silly, what is healthy or acceptible for anybody else.
Please try to answere for yourself, as that is the only one who`s perspective and motive you are qualified to comment on.
DEAREST Rascal: This response reveals that you have allowed me to get inside your head...BIG TIME! Your choice, not mine. The reason I didn't respond to this sooner is that Jean and I and the kids have been vacationing in Washington DC for the past week. We stayed in an Extended Stay motel. They didn't have a computer room; just outlets for laptops, which we do not have. So this is the first time I've been on GSC since that post.
Jean told me that you tried to rip me a new one. She was just sticking up for me. As for that stuff about stalking and bullies; that's crap. You guys are just as abbrasive with us as we are with you. As for Jean's remark being not nice, I'll let her answer for herself.
Actually, Rascal, you way over reacted to my post. The night I posted that I was in a silly mood. I posted on 2 other threads in a similar tone. Can't remember yet where they are, but I was trying to be funny more than anything else. Five years or so ago I was having this conversation with a female believer (not Jean) and she was saying stuff about the differences between men and women. She said, IHO, that men like to just resolve a conflict and move on and not talk about it anymore, but women like to analyze it, as you say, one layer at a time. Women, IHO, don't want to resolve the conflict, they want to just keep talking about it and that's how they get their closure. That was the gist of what she said. It was then that I came up with the phrase 'see the pain, be the pain' as a summation of her statements. She wasn't offended at all. She thought it was funny. Perhaps you take yourself(s) too seriously.
The last place we saw in DC was the Jefferson memorial. Neat place. 20 ft tall statue of TJ surrounded by 4 clips from stuff he said. One of them emphasized the free expression of religion, both pro and con. That's GSC to me. One poster thinks TJ didn't even believe in God. Not true if those quotes in his memorial are accurate. One final thought.
There's a song by Cream that says "happiness is something that just cannot be bought". Don't know about that, but the Dec of Independence says happyness can be pursued, and that this is a good thing. By sheer logic, then so can misery. Rascal, I think you and some of your friends may well be deeply engrossed in the pursuit of misery. Why?
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Jeaniam
Well, considering that in that one post she made 15 errors in spelling and punctuation, maybe it was justified. Unfortunately, poor spelling and punctuation detract from the points she is trying to make, and cause her to look like an uneducated, or overemotional buffoon.
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excathedra
your rudeness right there detracted from your post, but i guess you're justified
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excathedra
uneducated ? perhaps, who cares ???
overemotional ? you got that from the spelling and/or punctuation errors you counted ?
who is the buffoon here ?
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