We cant fix our past, being invoved in twi changed who we are.
i think JL and Js are willing t accept this even if they need to continue to tweek the reality of it with some changes to please the people.
Mark still wants to be a super hero.
change the world make a difference be the ONE and have a group God loves the best.
twi taught competition no doubt, and the strife comes with that.
for me it got old a long time ago.
the real world isnt so evil and Jesus can handle any issues that come along without falling off the throne if we do not seek the dream with all we got or had or all.
My thoughts about Mark going to school there.. correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was for a legitimate master's degree..
I think he saw that they needed some outside help.
Maybe he thought that if he was gonna be superman.. and it would just about take that to bring any real legitimacy to the organization.. that he'd better learn HOW to be superman..
still, the prophecy thingy and the adamancy of now wife in that regard, makes me think he has/had a few internal conflicts.
From what I've read here, on top of the organization, it wouldn't suprise me if a person felt like they were in a room full of Chihuauas prophesying at one's heels..
Before I fall asleep, maybe the silence is so deafening because the subject matter has become so completely boring? Whether it’s fought out here or in the courts of hell, does it matter? I think there are more interesting chestnuts to be roasted in the gutters of za next French chateau...in Beaune, http://www.chateaudemelin.com/
I spoke to MG very, very briefly one day recently and I asked him about the lawsuit. It appears to be in a discussion phase. We did not get into details.
Of all the people in that office, besides BillyD, Mark was the most open and approachable. Mark did want the church and he did want to add an air of legitimacy to the ministry. He wasn't so much into the we're all about being different mindset.
The prophecy thing was a bit much for me. I saw them (all) do it from time to time. I thought it was kinda like speaking in tongues - forced - but that is just my opinion.
I spoke to MG very, very briefly one day recently and I asked him about the lawsuit. It appears to be in a discussion phase. We did not get into details.
Of all the people in that office, besides BillyD, Mark was the most open and approachable. Mark did want the church and he did want to add an air of legitimacy to the ministry. He wasn't so much into the we're all about being different mindset.
The prophecy thing was a bit much for me. I saw them (all) do it from time to time. I thought it was kinda like speaking in tongues - forced - but that is just my opinion.
Hi Tzaia,
I was never in the Way / CES or any of the subsequent offshuts. However, I was involved in a similar cult but broke free.
The reason why all of these cults and sub-cults continue to implode is because they are founded on the teachings of false prophets. Look at the actual lifestyle of the founder and you'll have your answer. There is no way to rationalize a leader's adultry, lying, temper tantrums, egotism, etc. except that those are SATANIC traits!
Its not that MG, JL or anyone else isn't sincere or a "good guy". It is just that they are still fallen under the spirit of a false prophet, i.e. Ha-Satan's spirit. That's why their prophecies and visions are so horribly disgusting. They are from the Devil, period. Read the Bible and see if any of the Apostles were having visions or prophecies like these about fellow believers. You won't see any. If you truly belong to Christ, he then is the "strong man" within you. Satan has no power or right to harass you. Jesus spoke of his driving out demons by the spirit of God:
"Or again how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man?" (Matthew 12:29)
So who is really the strong man in charge of the "house"? Christ or Satan? It wasn't until I denounced the false teacher who started my cult and asked Christ to forgive me for following him that I truly became free. Something like "scales" fell from my eyes and now I can really see him for what he was. What's even better is that I can see other phonies for what they are too. Until I renounced these so called leaders, I could not see how truly sick and satanic the things they did and taught actually were. It may be hard to let go but what would a person give for true freedom and peace from God?
Christ is my only teacher now, as he said not to be called Rabbi, (teacher or master), for you HAVE only one Master and you are all brothers. (Matthew 23:7)
Just my 2 cents but life for me is VERY good now and extremely blessed. I pray the same good things from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ for you and everyone else here.
christalone, what cult were you in ? if you don't want to say, that's fine
Really it was my family that was in the cult but I was dragged along and made to attend. Well, I'll give you a hint. Here's a Reprint from Apologetics Press.org on its founder:
Not all religious groups claim to foretell the future. Those that do can be exposed as false if they fail a simple test. If their prophecies fail, God has not spoken through them (Deuteronomy 18:22). Hence, they are of human origin.
In his six volumes, Studies in the Scriptures, Charles Taze Russell made many predictions that were tied to specific dates (e.g., 1878, 1910, 1915). As these volumes were reprinted, some of the dates were changed because the original dates passed without the predictions being fulfilled. In time, all of the dated prophecies failed and the movement had to reinterpret the predictions or ignore them altogether. END
This is only one way to detect a false prophet. Other ways include looking at the leader's lifestyle and how he treated the flock. This will show you who indeed "sent" him. While I did not join the WAY or CES, I did read many of their articles and books. Material quoted from other sources may have been o.k. but their involvement in Momentus, Personal Prophecy and following the teachings of Wierwille even when they conflict directly with what Jesus commanded were red flags.
If the root is bad so the fruit will be also. Any leader who is a fornicator, drunk, liar, manipulator, thief, hot head, etc. does not have Christ as HIS head. Jesus said a good tree can not bear bad fruit and by their fruits you shall know them.
"Likewise every good tree bears good fruit but a bad tree bears bad fruit." Matthew 7:17
So this is the satanic fruit that is being produced down to this day. The Bible does not have any other of Christ's followers having dreams of black widow spiders coming out of another believer's nose. Comeon! You have to see this swill for what it is, satanic.
Following his analytical examination of the Bible, Pastor Russell, and other Bible Students, came to believe that Christian creeds and traditions were harmful errors, believing they had restored Christianity to the purity held in the first century
sounds kinda familiar..
I haven't looked very close, but I wonder if CES holds to the claim of knowing da bible like it hasn't been known since the first century..
Maybe not Joe, but as a squirrel, let me offer you a couple of pecans.
Well, I think the hucksters actually BELIEVE they have the finest knowledge before time began, otherwise they would find it a little difficult to sell their product.
That "third party perspective" can be very enlightening at times.
I was never a part of CES either so I don't come here often.
Your comments,though, seem to address issues that go beyond the parameters of a specific group or organization.
Has anyone offered you a free cup of "joe" yet?
I would do that myself but they don't trust me to operate the latte machine.(and rightfully so!)
Hi Waysider!
Thank you for your warm welcome. Yes, that was an astute observation of yours:
"Your comments, though, seem to address issues that go beyond the parameters of a specific group or organization."
You indeed hit the proverbial nail on the head. Once one has been in a cult, (any one will do!), one is more likely to simply join
another. Why? Well, one reason is that we have been indoctrinated to believe that we are unable to please God and be acceptable to Him on our own. The Bible says:".... lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge or take notice of HIM, (i.e. God and His Authorized Agent Jesus), and He will make your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5-6).
As I cited before, James 1:5 PROMISES that God will give wisdom to all who ask. So then why do we trail after these so called teachers and prophets who can't even follow Christ's example themselves?
See if we really don't get to the root of the problem we may simply repeat the cycle and that is what is happening with
CES, STF and all the rest. They are all still operating under the spirit of a false prophet. This is very serious. Who does
the Bible say the false prophet keeps company with? Here you go....
"Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet." (Revelation 16:13)
Uh huh. Yep. Frogs coming out of the false prophets mouth and now with CES, spiders coming out of another's nose. Look closely. The Bible cites these as evil spirits. The false prophet is a collective class of all those who have set themselves up as leaders and teachers of figments of their own imaginations. They are false prophets because God has not sent them and they call people to follow them instead of Christ alone. Look at the company they keep. Let's see, the dragon and the beast. Therefore the false prophets', (all of them), destiny is tied up with these other opposers of God. They are going to be fried.
Thank you, no, I'd rather put my trust in Christ and let HIM guide and lead me. I never believed in the trinity myth even though I went to a church that did and that was WAY before my family got involved with the cult. See, God will teach His wisdom to our hearts if we diligently seek Him. Its all about trust, really. There is NOTHING that we can do to make ourselves more pleasing to God beyond accepting the sin atoning sacrifice of His Son, Jesus. Christ is our righteousness, not our high flying classes and Greek word studies.
Well, yes I will take you up on that offer to make me my first cup of joe here at the Cafe! I'm sure you CAN handle the latte machine. You be blessed as I am praying for the complete restoration of all who are here and all who may yet come.
Maybe not Joe, but as a squirrel, let me offer you a couple of pecans.
Well, I think the hucksters actually BELIEVE they have the finest knowledge before time began, otherwise they would find it a little difficult to sell their product.
Welcome to the cafe!
Oh Mr. Hammeroni!
I love pecans!!! I will take you up on that nutty offer. Well, when you think about it, a huckster or con artist by
definition knows he is being dishonest. That's why he over-inflates the value of his product. He wants
to turn a BIG profit. That would include copying someone else's books without citing your sources and
then claiming you came to these conclusions by God's spirit and studying the Bible yourself. You know you
plagerized someone else's material and it is not yours but you pass it off as yours anyway. That's a huckster!
I agree they could believe that they, have the finest knowledge before time began. Yet, that's how complete
the satanic spirit of deception is. Read in the Bible about the lying spirit sent to the prophets in King Ahab's day:
"Finally a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD (Yahweh), and said, 'I will entice him'.
'By what means?' the LORD asked. 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets'
Kings 22:22
There you go. Those prophets believed they were speaking for God too. However they were the prophets of
wicked King Ahab, serving and consenting with him in his court. Guess what? Ahab was an evil idolator!!! <_<
Let us not forget whom Jesus indentified as being the prince of the air and the god of this world. You guessed it. Satan.
So those who unrepentently choose to lie, steal and fornicate among other wicked acts are his agents, not God's.
Just like the prophets in debauched King Ahab's court, Satan puts a lying spirit in the mouth of his prophets today to lead
people away from Christ. So these false prophets may believe their guff all they want. The source is still SATANIC.
So................got any walnuts on you? Pistachios? I'm hopeless! Now I have to make a trip to the market.
Thank you for the warm welcome & Bless you Mr. Hammeroni, revered master of ham, :)
I read some of your posts ChristAlone. We really think alike. You even quote some of the same scriptures that I have quoted previously on this matter. And you quote them with heart, enthusiasm and integrity. Very good. We must have the same master teacher and Lord. The only man worth truly following the Lord Jesus Christ.
If you did not notice check out the Grease Spot web page below and read the letter that I (Mark S.) wrote to CES leadership back in 2000. You might find it very interesting as it gives some background as to where CES got their personal prophecy bug. It was from an organization out of Florida called Christian International with founding president Bill Hamon.
I read some of your posts ChristAlone. We really think alike. You even quote some of the same scriptures that I have quoted previously on this matter. And you quote them with heart, enthusiasm and integrity. Very good. We must have the same master teacher and Lord. The only man worth truly following the Lord Jesus Christ.
If you did not notice check out the Grease Spot web page below and read the letter that I (Mark S.) wrote to CES leadership back in 2000. You might find it very interesting as it gives some background as to where CES got their personal prophecy bug. It was from an organization out of Florida called Christian International with founding president Bill Hamon.
Yes, I actually did read the articles under your first link but I had already been reading CES literature when
Personal Prophecy began rearing its ugly head. They had sort of a "training manual" on the subject which I
read but was not convinced of it's Biblicality. Didn't take long for the spiders and harlots to appear, right?
Whoa! I stopped by your Christian Herald website. Great minds DO think alike! We agree and have come
to many of the same conclusions because we have the mind of Christ.
"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corn. 2:16
I know this to be true because of the good fruit I am bearing now that I am connected to the TRUE Vine, Christ Jesus. Here's one gem from your article on Lordship that I especially found noteworthy:
"Any religious leader who is oppressive and arrogant has not followed Jesus' example of meekness and service. It also seems the more religiously authoritarian and powerful the leaders are the more at enmity they will be with Jesus' words and example. My favorite rationalization, however, is the line, "well, the devil just laid all these sins on us because we were doing so much good for God and his word.î People may have used lines similar to this in the Bible when confronted, but I assure you that this half hearted repentance was not well received."
How true, how true. These blinders are what keep these individuals from really repenting and receiving what
Christ has for them to do for HIS body. Your points also about these "leaders" wanting to assume the intermediary
position of Christ, were also excellent. CES and many others are so afraid of letting go of Wierwillism and just
going with Christ as the final expositor of the will of his Father and his God. They don't see that unless they repent
of having followed a false prophet, they will continue in his spirit and not receive the spirit of Christ.
Here's my 4-Step Program for breaking free:
1. Confess your sins and denouce the false prophet you followed by name. This is the most important step!
2. Promise to follow no man other than Christ and make him your only Lord, Leader and Rabbi.
3. Ask God for wisdom and a new heart to do His will and understand your place in the Body of His Son, Jesus Christ.
4. Move on and start getting involved in your community extending love to people of all denominations & faiths.
(i.e. you might volunteer at a nursing home, orphanage, soup kitchen or charity organization)
Having been in a cult isolates one to the point that they become afraid of being "contaminated" by false
doctrines, (i.e. trinity, eternal hell-fire ) . That is living like a Pharisee. It is not what comes
from without but what comes from within that makes someone spiritually unclean. (Matthew 15:11)
Once we get over that, we can then show compassion on others whom Christ also died for.
Remember, we too believed things that were false according to the leaders we chose to follow. God
forgave us so how can refuse to help those who are trapped in centuries of manmade
doctrines and church traditions? We have the unique opportunity to bless others with the truth of
who Jesus really is as opposed to "another Christ", Paul said some would profess. Your website
does a wonderful job of just that and I am sure you are also sharing in person.
Mark, I have bookmarked your informative website and have begun to read the articles you have
posted there. Thank you for your warm welcome and encouragement too. May God continue to
1. Confess you sins and denouce the false prophet you followed by name. This is the most important step!
Yeah. Sometimes, I've noticed if people denounce him publically, as in a forum as this, some people think the person is just spilling poison, but what is unclean is just plain unclean. There are those who just can't see it, despite first hand testimony from those who were plundered, deceived, and worse.
When people have glowing words, a plastic grin, and call the guy "The Teacher".. it really does give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
As usual a great post ChristAlone. You show a great deal of wisdom and biblical understanding. And your views are very practical also. I am going to send you a private message. I want you to have my e-mail address. You would be an ideal proof reader the next time I write a biblical article. My proof readers also assist with spiritual insight.
Yeah. Sometimes, I've noticed if people denounce him publically, as in a forum as this, some people think the person is just spilling poison, but what is unclean is just plain unclean. There are those who just can't see it, despite first hand testimony from those who were plundered, deceived, and worse.
When people have glowing words, a plastic grin, and call the guy "The Teacher".. it really does give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
A true lamb of God doesn't eat the flock.
Hi Mr. Hammeroni!
Hey, that's good if they denouce any false prophet publically! Your observations and gut feelings are dead on.
Unless someone has actually come to grips that the person whom they followed was NOT of God, they
will CONTINUE to be deceived. Hence their glowing words, plastic grin and still referring to the reprobate at
"Teacher". You are not the only one who gets a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when you STILL hear
people gushing over Wierwille being a prophet and man of God. Now we have 20/20 hindsight on how destructive his
lifestyle and teachings actually were. Give me a break!!!
It's like ripping the curtain off the Wizard of Oz's sound booth. Once you have uncovered the fraud, don't try
to justify or defend it. Remove yourself from it. It really is the first step out of bondage. Call that spade a
spade and get yourself free already. Excellent quote too: "A true lamb of God doesn't eat the flock."
You know, you have a LOT of insight for a little squirrel! Now you've got me thinking of pecans as
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Ham
Yes. And.. believe it or not.. :)
I admired him for it..
Maybe he saw what the organization could really be, or evolve into..
The damn lawsuit does a couple of things.. it gags his critics, and it gags himself..
oh well..
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dmiller
It certainly took the focus off of the objective, and *localized* it.
Mr. H -- You have a good take/ perspective on the overall outcome. :)
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pond
We cant fix our past, being invoved in twi changed who we are.
i think JL and Js are willing t accept this even if they need to continue to tweek the reality of it with some changes to please the people.
Mark still wants to be a super hero.
change the world make a difference be the ONE and have a group God loves the best.
twi taught competition no doubt, and the strife comes with that.
for me it got old a long time ago.
the real world isnt so evil and Jesus can handle any issues that come along without falling off the throne if we do not seek the dream with all we got or had or all.
peace is a god thing guys.
relax a little.
with age it comes I think .
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Ham
My thoughts about Mark going to school there.. correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was for a legitimate master's degree..
I think he saw that they needed some outside help.
Maybe he thought that if he was gonna be superman.. and it would just about take that to bring any real legitimacy to the organization.. that he'd better learn HOW to be superman..
still, the prophecy thingy and the adamancy of now wife in that regard, makes me think he has/had a few internal conflicts.
From what I've read here, on top of the organization, it wouldn't suprise me if a person felt like they were in a room full of Chihuauas prophesying at one's heels..
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Bumpy
Before I fall asleep, maybe the silence is so deafening because the subject matter has become so completely boring? Whether it’s fought out here or in the courts of hell, does it matter? I think there are more interesting chestnuts to be roasted in the gutters of za next French chateau...in Beaune, http://www.chateaudemelin.com/
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Tzaia
I spoke to MG very, very briefly one day recently and I asked him about the lawsuit. It appears to be in a discussion phase. We did not get into details.
Of all the people in that office, besides BillyD, Mark was the most open and approachable. Mark did want the church and he did want to add an air of legitimacy to the ministry. He wasn't so much into the we're all about being different mindset.
The prophecy thing was a bit much for me. I saw them (all) do it from time to time. I thought it was kinda like speaking in tongues - forced - but that is just my opinion.
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ChristAlone
Hi Tzaia,
I was never in the Way / CES or any of the subsequent offshuts. However, I was involved in a similar cult but broke free.
The reason why all of these cults and sub-cults continue to implode is because they are founded on the teachings of false prophets. Look at the actual lifestyle of the founder and you'll have your answer. There is no way to rationalize a leader's adultry, lying, temper tantrums, egotism, etc. except that those are SATANIC traits!
Its not that MG, JL or anyone else isn't sincere or a "good guy". It is just that they are still fallen under the spirit of a false prophet, i.e. Ha-Satan's spirit. That's why their prophecies and visions are so horribly disgusting. They are from the Devil, period. Read the Bible and see if any of the Apostles were having visions or prophecies like these about fellow believers. You won't see any. If you truly belong to Christ, he then is the "strong man" within you. Satan has no power or right to harass you. Jesus spoke of his driving out demons by the spirit of God:
"Or again how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man?" (Matthew 12:29)
So who is really the strong man in charge of the "house"? Christ or Satan? It wasn't until I denounced the false teacher who started my cult and asked Christ to forgive me for following him that I truly became free. Something like "scales" fell from my eyes and now I can really see him for what he was. What's even better is that I can see other phonies for what they are too. Until I renounced these so called leaders, I could not see how truly sick and satanic the things they did and taught actually were. It may be hard to let go but what would a person give for true freedom and peace from God?
Christ is my only teacher now, as he said not to be called Rabbi, (teacher or master), for you HAVE only one Master and you are all brothers. (Matthew 23:7)
Just my 2 cents but life for me is VERY good now and extremely blessed. I pray the same good things from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ for you and everyone else here.
Been there, seen that, moved on,
ChristAlone
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excathedra
christalone, what cult were you in ? if you don't want to say, that's fine
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ChristAlone
Really it was my family that was in the cult but I was dragged along and made to attend. Well, I'll give you a hint. Here's a Reprint from Apologetics Press.org on its founder:
Not all religious groups claim to foretell the future. Those that do can be exposed as false if they fail a simple test. If their prophecies fail, God has not spoken through them (Deuteronomy 18:22). Hence, they are of human origin.
In his six volumes, Studies in the Scriptures, Charles Taze Russell made many predictions that were tied to specific dates (e.g., 1878, 1910, 1915). As these volumes were reprinted, some of the dates were changed because the original dates passed without the predictions being fulfilled. In time, all of the dated prophecies failed and the movement had to reinterpret the predictions or ignore them altogether. END
This is only one way to detect a false prophet. Other ways include looking at the leader's lifestyle and how he treated the flock. This will show you who indeed "sent" him. While I did not join the WAY or CES, I did read many of their articles and books. Material quoted from other sources may have been o.k. but their involvement in Momentus, Personal Prophecy and following the teachings of Wierwille even when they conflict directly with what Jesus commanded were red flags.
If the root is bad so the fruit will be also. Any leader who is a fornicator, drunk, liar, manipulator, thief, hot head, etc. does not have Christ as HIS head. Jesus said a good tree can not bear bad fruit and by their fruits you shall know them.
"Likewise every good tree bears good fruit but a bad tree bears bad fruit." Matthew 7:17
So this is the satanic fruit that is being produced down to this day. The Bible does not have any other of Christ's followers having dreams of black widow spiders coming out of another believer's nose. Comeon! You have to see this swill for what it is, satanic.
Bless you,
ChristAlone
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excathedra
thank you for your reply
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Ham
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell
sounds kinda familiar..
I haven't looked very close, but I wonder if CES holds to the claim of knowing da bible like it hasn't been known since the first century..
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ChristAlone
My pleasure and bless you much Excathedra!
ChristAlone
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ChristAlone
Hi Hammeroni,
You said, "sounds kinda familiar". Doesn't though?!!! When I began to see that all of
these con artists work pretty much the same way, my eyes were totally opened. They
make you think that they alone have the wisdom and knowledge that has been
locked away since the First Century. Yeah, right. To the contrary, my Bible says:
"If ANY of you is lacking in wisdom, ask God who gives to ALL generously and ungrudgingly
and it WILL be given you. (James 1:5)
Notice the absolute promises in this verse. Any one, all receive and it WILL be given you.
The truth is, we all have access to God's wisdom and understanding just by asking for it.
No classes, no books, no CD's are necessary. In fact, I have found these things to be a
hinderance to developing a close relationship with the true wisdom of God, His Son, Christ Jesus.
It really doesn't matter if CES has made the same claims as Wierwille. They still revere him
as a God-sent teacher and prophet. He plagerized other writer's work and passed it off as his own,
(liar), he sexually helped himself to innocent young women in the WAY,(adulterer), over indulged
in alcohol, (drunkard) but somehow they believe THIS to be the earmark of a true prophet of God.
That's how complete the satanic deception is and unless they come to the truth of the matter, they
will continue in that same deceptive, destructive spirit.
Jesus said regarding salvation:
"Anyone who believes in me AND IS BAPTIZED will be saved." Mark 16:16A
Yet, Weirwille says: "No, baptism isn't needed for salvation", so CES parrots back his words instead of
OBEYING Christ's. Sorry but Wierwille, Russel nor any of these other self-proclaimed prophets
died for me. Take Jesus' words as true because the Father has delegated the judging to HIM.
If any of you still can not find any peace, call a spade a spade, repent and get BAPTIZED if you
haven't already. Then never let anyone again separate you from Christ who is the ONLY way to
the Father. Only then can really begin to live and bear the kind of good fruit that comes
from being joined to the true vine:
"I am the true vine and my Father is the gardener. Remain in me and I will remain in you. No branch
can bear fruit by itself: it must REMAIN in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in
me." John 15:1 & 4
Jesus also goes on to say in verse 5 that: ".....apart from me you can do NOTHING."
So the key here is to ditch these false prophets and their offshut proteges and turn to the real thing, that is
Christ Jesus. If I had actually read a Bible cover to cover, I don't think I would have gone for the
garbage my cult was spewing so I do take some responsibility. HOWEVER, this does not excuse
those who take advantage of the young and naive, (I was both), to their harm and detriment.
I am really praying for everyone here because I think there is more healing & restoration that needs
to be done. God wants to give us back what the enemy has stolen if we let Him.
Blessings in Christ for all here,
ChristAlone
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waysider
Hi, ChristAlone.
Welcome aboard!
I really enjoyed your posts and insight.
That "third party perspective" can be very enlightening at times.
I was never a part of CES either so I don't come here often.
Your comments,though, seem to address issues that go beyond the parameters of a specific group or organization.
Has anyone offered you a free cup of "joe" yet?
I would do that myself but they don't trust me to operate the latte machine.(and rightfully so!)
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Ham
Maybe not Joe, but as a squirrel, let me offer you a couple of pecans.
Well, I think the hucksters actually BELIEVE they have the finest knowledge before time began, otherwise they would find it a little difficult to sell their product.
Welcome to the cafe!
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ChristAlone
Hi Waysider!
Thank you for your warm welcome. Yes, that was an astute observation of yours:
"Your comments, though, seem to address issues that go beyond the parameters of a specific group or organization."
You indeed hit the proverbial nail on the head. Once one has been in a cult, (any one will do!), one is more likely to simply join
another. Why? Well, one reason is that we have been indoctrinated to believe that we are unable to please God and be acceptable to Him on our own. The Bible says:".... lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge or take notice of HIM, (i.e. God and His Authorized Agent Jesus), and He will make your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5-6).
As I cited before, James 1:5 PROMISES that God will give wisdom to all who ask. So then why do we trail after these so called teachers and prophets who can't even follow Christ's example themselves?
See if we really don't get to the root of the problem we may simply repeat the cycle and that is what is happening with
CES, STF and all the rest. They are all still operating under the spirit of a false prophet. This is very serious. Who does
the Bible say the false prophet keeps company with? Here you go....
"Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet." (Revelation 16:13)
Uh huh. Yep. Frogs coming out of the false prophets mouth and now with CES, spiders coming out of another's nose. Look closely. The Bible cites these as evil spirits. The false prophet is a collective class of all those who have set themselves up as leaders and teachers of figments of their own imaginations. They are false prophets because God has not sent them and they call people to follow them instead of Christ alone. Look at the company they keep. Let's see, the dragon and the beast. Therefore the false prophets', (all of them), destiny is tied up with these other opposers of God. They are going to be fried.
Thank you, no, I'd rather put my trust in Christ and let HIM guide and lead me. I never believed in the trinity myth even though I went to a church that did and that was WAY before my family got involved with the cult. See, God will teach His wisdom to our hearts if we diligently seek Him. Its all about trust, really. There is NOTHING that we can do to make ourselves more pleasing to God beyond accepting the sin atoning sacrifice of His Son, Jesus. Christ is our righteousness, not our high flying classes and Greek word studies.
Well, yes I will take you up on that offer to make me my first cup of joe here at the Cafe! I'm sure you CAN handle the latte machine. You be blessed as I am praying for the complete restoration of all who are here and all who may yet come.
ChristAlone
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ChristAlone
Oh Mr. Hammeroni!
I love pecans!!! I will take you up on that nutty offer. Well, when you think about it, a huckster or con artist by
definition knows he is being dishonest. That's why he over-inflates the value of his product. He wants
to turn a BIG profit. That would include copying someone else's books without citing your sources and
then claiming you came to these conclusions by God's spirit and studying the Bible yourself. You know you
plagerized someone else's material and it is not yours but you pass it off as yours anyway. That's a huckster!
I agree they could believe that they, have the finest knowledge before time began. Yet, that's how complete
the satanic spirit of deception is. Read in the Bible about the lying spirit sent to the prophets in King Ahab's day:
"Finally a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD (Yahweh), and said, 'I will entice him'.
'By what means?' the LORD asked. 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets'
Kings 22:22
There you go. Those prophets believed they were speaking for God too. However they were the prophets of
wicked King Ahab, serving and consenting with him in his court. Guess what? Ahab was an evil idolator!!! <_<
Let us not forget whom Jesus indentified as being the prince of the air and the god of this world. You guessed it. Satan.
So those who unrepentently choose to lie, steal and fornicate among other wicked acts are his agents, not God's.
Just like the prophets in debauched King Ahab's court, Satan puts a lying spirit in the mouth of his prophets today to lead
people away from Christ. So these false prophets may believe their guff all they want. The source is still SATANIC.
So................got any walnuts on you? Pistachios? I'm hopeless! Now I have to make a trip to the market.
Thank you for the warm welcome & Bless you Mr. Hammeroni, revered master of ham, :)
ChristAlone
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dmiller
A cup of coffee to help wash down that *nutty* offer. ;)
(Welcome to GreaseSpot Cafe, ChristAlone.) :)
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ChristAlone
Wow, thanks dmiller,
I do feel truly welcome now having been offered
both coffee AND nuts! You guys are the best.
Blessings!
ChristAlone
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Mark Sanguinetti
I read some of your posts ChristAlone. We really think alike. You even quote some of the same scriptures that I have quoted previously on this matter. And you quote them with heart, enthusiasm and integrity. Very good. We must have the same master teacher and Lord. The only man worth truly following the Lord Jesus Christ.
If you did not notice check out the Grease Spot web page below and read the letter that I (Mark S.) wrote to CES leadership back in 2000. You might find it very interesting as it gives some background as to where CES got their personal prophecy bug. It was from an organization out of Florida called Christian International with founding president Bill Hamon.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=12513
And one more thing of interest. I built a web site recently with some good biblical teachings. Check out the site below.
http://www.christianherald.info
Also here is a direct link to an article that I wrote that especially pertains to the subject matter of this thread.
http://www.christianherald.info/lordship_o...s_christ_1.html
Carry on and great posts all.
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ChristAlone
Hey Mark!
Yes, I actually did read the articles under your first link but I had already been reading CES literature when
Personal Prophecy began rearing its ugly head. They had sort of a "training manual" on the subject which I
read but was not convinced of it's Biblicality. Didn't take long for the spiders and harlots to appear, right?
Whoa! I stopped by your Christian Herald website. Great minds DO think alike! We agree and have come
to many of the same conclusions because we have the mind of Christ.
"For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corn. 2:16
I know this to be true because of the good fruit I am bearing now that I am connected to the TRUE Vine, Christ Jesus. Here's one gem from your article on Lordship that I especially found noteworthy:
"Any religious leader who is oppressive and arrogant has not followed Jesus' example of meekness and service. It also seems the more religiously authoritarian and powerful the leaders are the more at enmity they will be with Jesus' words and example. My favorite rationalization, however, is the line, "well, the devil just laid all these sins on us because we were doing so much good for God and his word.î People may have used lines similar to this in the Bible when confronted, but I assure you that this half hearted repentance was not well received."
How true, how true. These blinders are what keep these individuals from really repenting and receiving what
Christ has for them to do for HIS body. Your points also about these "leaders" wanting to assume the intermediary
position of Christ, were also excellent. CES and many others are so afraid of letting go of Wierwillism and just
going with Christ as the final expositor of the will of his Father and his God. They don't see that unless they repent
of having followed a false prophet, they will continue in his spirit and not receive the spirit of Christ.
Here's my 4-Step Program for breaking free:
1. Confess your sins and denouce the false prophet you followed by name. This is the most important step!
2. Promise to follow no man other than Christ and make him your only Lord, Leader and Rabbi.
3. Ask God for wisdom and a new heart to do His will and understand your place in the Body of His Son, Jesus Christ.
4. Move on and start getting involved in your community extending love to people of all denominations & faiths.
(i.e. you might volunteer at a nursing home, orphanage, soup kitchen or charity organization)
Having been in a cult isolates one to the point that they become afraid of being "contaminated" by false
doctrines, (i.e. trinity, eternal hell-fire )
. That is living like a Pharisee. 
It is not what comes
from without but what comes from within that makes someone spiritually unclean. (Matthew 15:11)
Once we get over that, we can then show compassion on others whom Christ also died for.
Remember, we too believed things that were false according to the leaders we chose to follow. God
forgave us so how can refuse to help those who are trapped in centuries of manmade
doctrines and church traditions? We have the unique opportunity to bless others with the truth of
who Jesus really is as opposed to "another Christ", Paul said some would profess. Your website
does a wonderful job of just that and I am sure you are also sharing in person.
Mark, I have bookmarked your informative website and have begun to read the articles you have
posted there. Thank you for your warm welcome and encouragement too. May God continue to
use you mightily in His service!
Blessings in Messiah,
ChristAlone
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Ham
Yeah. Sometimes, I've noticed if people denounce him publically, as in a forum as this, some people think the person is just spilling poison, but what is unclean is just plain unclean. There are those who just can't see it, despite first hand testimony from those who were plundered, deceived, and worse.
When people have glowing words, a plastic grin, and call the guy "The Teacher".. it really does give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
A true lamb of God doesn't eat the flock.
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Mark Sanguinetti
As usual a great post ChristAlone. You show a great deal of wisdom and biblical understanding. And your views are very practical also. I am going to send you a private message. I want you to have my e-mail address. You would be an ideal proof reader the next time I write a biblical article. My proof readers also assist with spiritual insight.
Carry on and keep up the good work everyone.
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ChristAlone
Hi Mr. Hammeroni!
Hey, that's good if they denouce any false prophet publically! Your observations and gut feelings are dead on.
Unless someone has actually come to grips that the person whom they followed was NOT of God, they
will CONTINUE to be deceived. Hence their glowing words, plastic grin and still referring to the reprobate at
"Teacher". You are not the only one who gets a sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when you STILL hear
people gushing over Wierwille being a prophet and man of God. Now we have 20/20 hindsight on how destructive his
lifestyle and teachings actually were. Give me a break!!!
It's like ripping the curtain off the Wizard of Oz's sound booth. Once you have uncovered the fraud, don't try
to justify or defend it. Remove yourself from it. It really is the first step out of bondage. Call that spade a
spade and get yourself free already. Excellent quote too: "A true lamb of God doesn't eat the flock."
You know, you have a LOT of insight for a little squirrel! Now you've got me thinking of pecans as
I already went to the store for pistachios.
Bless you Guru of Ham,
ChristAlone
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