Makes you wonder if some people who are in and really like being IN don't have a sadistic streak--and the beliefs of the ministry give it a nice righteous cover.
I saw the nastiest bullies were the ones who recieved the accolaides and were moved up the ladder the quickest.
When everybody we knew with heart and integrety were being fired and thrown out in the late 80s, and my spouse was saying it was time for us to leave as well....I can remember desperately telling him that if all of us left, it would leave the bullies who enjoyed hurting people in charge.
Long lasting scars, physically, emotionally, sexually. Many of us were abused in every possible way.
In residence everyone had parental rights, so I could be spanked, beaten, assaulted (verbally and physically), neglected and controlled by whoever decided to. I could be spoken to our beaten for the same crime, depending who caught me doing whatever it was I did or did not do wrong. I had to miss most social events at school so I could go to twig. We were jerked around , all over the country, never able to establish roots in a community. there's a lot more I can say.
It was bad enough before we went into the Corps. But my life became very very difficult, negative and depressing when we went to Rome City. I loved the grounds, made good friends in my peer group but other than that it was pretty much non stop abuse. We coudln't even do our homework. We were the smartest kids in school and we all had bad grades.
More than abundant, yea right!
Sound description right there. I was born in the way, (scary how right that sounds) my life was dictated by any and every man or woman associated with my parents in the ministry. Before, during and after residence. My older sisters also, but I only saw the physical and verbal abuse.. they weren't so lucky. Our parents were always either working, in a meeting, working on a teaching, witnessing, running bookstore, or fellowshipping.. honestly, much of my childhood is like the supposed FOG.. I can't remember who watched over me.. In rome city, we were diagnosed with social cancer.. WAYERS ostrasized at school.. and of course any other time, confined to campus.. unless by some miracle mom and dad had a saturday afternoon free, and were given permission to leave for a few hours.. whoo hoo fort wayne here we come.. bah .. so bitter still I guess.. still look at anyone "sharing" the word with a hefty heaping of skepticism.. just recently at 29 did I allow my family to attend a church full time.. I find myself in social panic alot, we were forced into so many things.. free will wasn't an option.. that whole victory bs also, both of my sisters jumped at becoming mark and avoid almost the second we arrived in tx. I was left to suffer at the wrath of the way, alone.. parents still in constant spin.. I've heard Disney World is pretty cool.. but hell if I know.. Mom and Dad are great now.. I consider them compatriots not to mention.. GREAT GRANDPARENTS!! BUt for the longest time, I hated them, sorry mom and dad.. but it's true.. Thank god I had enough sense to rebel, otherwise I would of probably shrugged off craig's charges as adversary workings and "stood" to fall for even more crap than my parents..
The long term effects are detrimental to the shear fabric of the conscious understanding of life.. I was born when I disconnected.. I had to rediscover breath.. I wish the life on no one
I've heard Disney World is pretty cool.. but hell if I know.. Mom and Dad are great now.. I consider them compatriots not to mention.. GREAT GRANDPARENTS!! BUt for the longest time, I hated them, sorry mom and dad.. but it's true.. Thank god I had enough sense to rebel, otherwise I would of probably shrugged off craig's charges as adversary workings and "stood" to fall for even more crap than my parents..
The long term effects are detrimental to the shear fabric of the conscious understanding of life.. I was born when I disconnected.. I had to rediscover breath.. I wish the life on no one
AJern, Disney IS cool! Bring the family on down sometime and I'll be delighted to show y'all around.
Thank God, indeed for those rebellious streaks in so many of us. My little brother kept telling my mom that one day they'd tell me one too many times what to do and I'd bolt. Sure 'nuff.... I got tired of being controlled, manipulated, micromanaged and then they kept harping on how evil the internet is.... well, my job requires that I be able to get around on the WWW, so I knew that was bunk and, of course, had to look for whatever it was they obviously didn't want us to see. It really isn't wise, usually, to tell me NOT to do something.
So glad to have you here at the Cafe! The air is fresh and sweet, so breath in deeply.
Sound description right there. I was born in the way, (scary how right that sounds) my life was dictated by any and every man or woman associated with my parents in the ministry. Before, during and after residence. My older sisters also, but I only saw the physical and verbal abuse.. they weren't so lucky. Our parents were always either working, in a meeting, working on a teaching, witnessing, running bookstore, or fellowshipping.. honestly, much of my childhood is like the supposed FOG.. I can't remember who watched over me.. In rome city, we were diagnosed with social cancer.. WAYERS ostrasized at school.. and of course any other time, confined to campus.. unless by some miracle mom and dad had a saturday afternoon free, and were given permission to leave for a few hours.. whoo hoo fort wayne here we come.. bah .. so bitter still I guess.. still look at anyone "sharing" the word with a hefty heaping of skepticism.. just recently at 29 did I allow my family to attend a church full time.. I find myself in social panic alot, we were forced into so many things.. free will wasn't an option.. that whole victory bs also, both of my sisters jumped at becoming mark and avoid almost the second we arrived in tx. I was left to suffer at the wrath of the way, alone.. parents still in constant spin.. I've heard Disney World is pretty cool.. but hell if I know.. Mom and Dad are great now.. I consider them compatriots not to mention.. GREAT GRANDPARENTS!! BUt for the longest time, I hated them, sorry mom and dad.. but it's true.. Thank god I had enough sense to rebel, otherwise I would of probably shrugged off craig's charges as adversary workings and "stood" to fall for even more crap than my parents..
The long term effects are detrimental to the shear fabric of the conscious understanding of life.. I was born when I disconnected.. I had to rediscover breath.. I wish the life on no one
I relate to every word. Maybe I know you? I was in F9, hit me with a private message if you like.
ajern, georgio, all i can say is DITTO DITTO DITTO.
it is tough as a kid when you are getting it from all sides; especially in residence when everyone and their mother can and will discipline you! TWI always tried to teach us "freedom from fear" but all they practiced was tyranny. does anyone ever wonder what weekly doses of LCM's ranting and swearing does to kids? in the corps kids were exposed to everything their parents were... yes, it's true we were taught that in the bible children were stoned for disobeying their parents, many times over. we were also taught to mistrust the secular world, all other faiths, and pretty much everyone outside the way. devil spirits could contaminate us at any moment, even kill us if we stepped outside of the protection of the household. if i ever told one little lie or doubted any of the teachings i then lived in constant fear of retribution for days afterward. if i fell down and scraped my knees on the playground, was it because the devil spirits were after me? i was always told that god would protect me, but then i was also taught that i was a target... so how did we ever learn anything but fear? when did they ever make us feel safe? or even loved?
sorry if this if off topic... but does anyone remember when in residence at the indiana campus they screened "ghost busters" for the kids one night? whew! i think a few people got fired for it. meanwhile i was having nightmares for weeks-- but not because of the film (we never actually saw the whole thing)-- but because of what they told us it would do to us as kids.
and then there was "athletes of the spirit"... oddly enough, the only film we were allowed to watch. scarey!
In many ways, Mini, it seemed like the "devil spirits" were used as a sort of twi boogie man who would come and get you if you weren't good enough for God to protect you.
How in the world is anyone supposed to be able to dictate what God can and cannot do it God truly is all powerful? God CAN'T protect you if you disobey. God CAN'T prosper you if you are in debt. God CAN'T protect you if you leave the way. Makes God look pretty weak, doesn't it?
I believe I was in at the time MiniC. We were allowed to watch ghost busters one night and the next morning heads were rolling. Not being AC grads yet, we were not prepared for those kind of spiritual realities.
Cats and Dogs sleeping together, total pandamonium! The Gate Keeper and the Key Master, ectoplasm, and a giant stay puffed mashmallow man, good thing there were spiritual heavies on campus to keep us still on their spiritual teet safe from evils like those.
What sirG was talking about hits home....sort of. There was that victory mindset in an extreme sence at times but at the same time I always felt like I fell way short of it and that I was not able to accomplish much without the oversight of others. You needed leaders to succeed and they (many of them, not all) needed to be apart of every decision as "wise counsil", but with your life under that close scrutiny, it was inevitable that they would find something wrong with you, something you needed to change, something they felt was holding you back. What was missing was a little faith, if you will. Faith in yourself allowing you to make a leap, maybe a blind one, and learning from the success and/or failure.
In starting my own business, in a similarly paradoxical way, this has been both a prod and a hurdle to get over. On the one hand, there has been a feeling of inadequecy and self doubt at times, but on the other is the strong distaste for a boss telling me what to do all the time.
Of course there could be a lot of things about me and my life attributing to these things.
We did make mistakes with our kids and there were effects on them through our twi involvement. It still hurts my heart.
But as a parent you protect your children and we tried our best to give them love and encouragement (more than what we got from twi).
We can't go back in time. But we can give of our time and make sure they feel loved. That's all we can do.
As I said before, it was our children who helped us see the evil of twi. We started to see twi's bad influence on their lives. We even asked them if they would stand when they were out on their own. They said "no way" so that's when we said "we're outta here".
I can only speak for myself, and I know my parents would argue the point with me, but I place no blame upon them for anything that happened to me in twi. They did what they thought was best, made some mistakes along the way, but they really tried to be good parents. They loved us the best they knew how. The only ones to blame were the leadership who taught things wrongly and encouraged the hurt.
This is only my opinion, of course, but as you said, you can't go back in time to change things. Now we know better.
Love your kids for who they are and don't look at them as "damaged goods" because of what happened before. Believe in your kids. Encourage them. Teach them to be independant thinkers and back up the decisions they make for their lives.
I love my parents even though they got me into twi. I don't hold it against them. If it wasn't for that I never would have met my husband, who I love very deeply. I guess I got one good thing out of twi!!
We did make mistakes with our kids and there were effects on them through our twi involvement. It still hurts my heart.
But as a parent you protect your children and we tried our best to give them love and encouragement (more than what we got from twi).
We can't go back in time. But we can give of our time and make sure they feel loved. That's all we can do.
As I said before, it was our children who helped us see the evil of twi. We started to see twi's bad influence on their lives. We even asked them if they would stand when they were out on their own. They said "no way" so that's when we said "we're outta here".
gee, i wish you were my parent. unfortunately mine are still in though, and in big denial. i know they feel bad about some things, like the fact that i am no longer a believer. they know they pushed me too strongly and punished me for the wrong reasons-- like grounding me for not SIT. forcing your kids and using scare tactics to get them to believe is not an option! but they are also still as arrogant as ever and see their way and TWI as the only right belief system. it makes me and my brother so sad... and angry. they just cannot understand to this day why we are so bitter about what happened to us. i am currently deep in the "child abuse in TWI" forum which was started a few years ago and all i can do is nod my head over and over. we were beaten, we were verbally and sexually and physically abused and yet my parents turn a blind eye. to this day they refuse to acknowledge any of it. i saw my brother beaten repeatedly-- broken wooden spoons were the norm! many adults carried extras for this reason! as a young girl i don't remember getting it as bad as the boys, but i still got bruises. actually, some of my worst memories were of the junior corps (not you guys, i'm sure). there was this one girl who just terrorized me... but i digress...
anyway. my heart goes out to all you ex-way parents. i know you really love your kids, and none of this post is directed at you in any way. i don't really know who it is for... maybe someday my parents will wake up, but until then i don't think i can really forgive them. does that make sense?
I believe I was in at the time MiniC. We were allowed to watch ghost busters one night and the next morning heads were rolling. Not being AC grads yet, we were not prepared for those kind of spiritual realities.
Cats and Dogs sleeping together, total pandamonium! The Gate Keeper and the Key Master, ectoplasm, and a giant stay puffed mashmallow man, good thing there were spiritual heavies on campus to keep us still on their spiritual teet safe from evils like those.
i must have been sent to bed early (i was only 6 or 7 at the time). isn't it funny though, and correct me if i am miss-remembering, but i think they actually taught us that all that stuff was real! i never took the AC, so many films were out of bounds for me... but i remember going to a "word in business" conference in '91 (or something like that) and they were talking about "the exorcist" as if it were an actual documentation of how devil spirits work! although i think they said that the girls head could not actually swivel all the way around, but the rest of it was right on!
I absolutly remember the Ghostbusters thing. What I remember really doing a number on me was the fact that heads did roll and I couldn't see why. When I asked , I was told it was because that entire movie is full of truth and would open my mind to devil spirits because I was still too young to handle them and recognize them. The fact that I asked why was proof that I was spiritually immature.
How about that? Ghostbuster: a true story! I fear marshmallows to this day haha
TWI was big on using fear to keep us in line. How unGodly.
As a parent, looking back, I deeply regret having put my kids through the Family Corps training. Besides exposing them to ridiculous doctrine and the abuses (both physical and verbal) of our peers, there were incidents of actual neglect that still bother me when I think of them.
In the early 90's, Family Corps adults basically worked all day, had evening classes, and often worked later into the night, doing Bless Patrol (later called "Vigilance Patrol") or any of a number of other meaningless tasks. One year we hosted something like seven Advanced Classes, which involved outrageous hours of set-up and take-down, and through it all, our children were shuffled from one "Rover" to another. These "Rovers" were not all responsible people, and even the dedicated ones were exhausted and overworked. Safely tending to twenty or more kids at a time was not really possible. The poor kids would act up, having not been with their parents for days, and the wooden spoon was the accepted remedy for all behavior problems.
Many times, there would be soccer games or school plays or other events that we parents could not attend, even though our kids were usually allowed to do these extracurricular school activities. That is ... of course ... if they had WRITTEN permission from the Children's Activities Director, as well as the Family Corps Director, THREE DAYS IN ADVANCE !!! Do you guys remember this? When I think of how kids in the normal world enjoy spontaneous trips to the Dairy Queen, or a weekend slumber party that might have been arranged on Thursday afternoon, I realize how ripped off the Corps kids were. Transitioning back and forth between the friendships they had in Public School and the absurdity of life at the Way College campus ... must have been awful for these youngsters. And their parents - including myself - were rarely available to help them process any of it.
I remember one night, praying with my fourth-grader. It was a few minutes after the designated bed-time for his age group, and the "Rover" on duty barged into my boy's room and interrupted our prayer, confronting me for violating the curfew, and wouldn't leave the room until I did. I remember another time when one of my sons, age 12, had a tooth removed by the dentist, and asked to miss fellowship that night because he was in pain. They said he could stay in his room, but couldn't come out for anything. Late that night I checked on him, and discovered blood all over his bedding. He knew he had been bleeding too much, but was afraid to come out of his room to ask for help.
No big deal, right? But when this was the norm, the day-to-day way of life that children grew up in, it still upsets me that I condoned this for my own kids.
Prom night. My boy, a high school junior, had a date with a very nice girl from town, for the Prom. But here's how it had to be: SHE paid for his tux rental. SHE drove HER car to pick him up at the Way College campus. SHE bought the flowers - for herself as well as for him. SHE paid for dinner. And HE had to be back at the campus by midnight.
Now, THAT is a really weird prom night. No wonder the community viewed Way kids as kooks.
Prom night. My boy, a high school junior, had a date with a very nice girl from town, for the Prom. But here's how it had to be: SHE paid for his tux rental. SHE drove HER car to pick him up at the Way College campus. SHE bought the flowers - for herself as well as for him. SHE paid for dinner. And HE had to be back at the campus by midnight.
Now, THAT is a really weird prom night. No wonder the community viewed Way kids as kooks.
"Besides exposing them to ridiculous doctrine and the abuses (both physical and verbal) of our peers, there were incidents of actual neglect that still bother me when I think of them."
Add "sexual" to that list of abuses. NEGLECT in all caps too.
"Bless Patrol (later called "Vigilance Patrol") "
Well chalk one up for TWI! "Bless Patrol" was an oxi moron. "Vigilance Patrol" while still a euphamism is more accurate.
"These "Rovers" were not all responsible people, and even the dedicated ones were exhausted and overworked."
One of my first sexual encounters was with a rover. Rovers were random people left with kids. No training, no screening. No one outside of a cult would even consider this system a good idea.
"Prom night. My boy, a high school junior, had a date with a very nice girl from town, for the Prom. But here's how it had to be: SHE paid for his tux rental. SHE drove HER car to pick him up at the Way College campus. SHE bought the flowers - for herself as well as for him. SHE paid for dinner. And HE had to be back at the campus by midnight."
Aweful! We were never allowed to participate in a normal way with school activities. I remember I was supposed to bring eggs to home economics and TWI wanted me to pay for them. I had no money, nor did my mom. I got an F.
Thanks Moneyahnds!
To any parents feeling guilty: You were in a cult. You had the best intentions. You were brainwashed. It's not your fault that your trust was violated and it worked against your kids. Love your kids and move on. You were hurt too. Life goes on, live and learn.
When you think of how much money your mom had to acquire from "spiritual partners" to be in FWC, a couple dozen eggs from the abundance of chickens that were clucking in that yard doesn't seem like a whole lot, now does it?
And I think every abuse and neglect kids suffered was a huge, enormous, gigantic deal!
I remember once we had an assignment from Mrs. WC (F), to write a lesson plan teaching God's Word to children. If we worked with the young'ns, that was the age group you had to make a lesson for. I was taking care of 13-19 month old babies. Think of a 30-minute lesson plan which has to include a specific Scripture verse for them to memorize! They can't friggin' TALK! They can't read, and their retemory skills are not that hot, either. They are poopin' in diapers, for Pete's sake! And you want them to stand up and spout off Ephesians 6:1, 2, and 3??:????? How lame is that?
I don't remember what I wrote, but it came back with a F and blistering note: "You have not shown me you know ANYTHING about teacing God's Word to children". Well, kiss my grits!
BTW, my six weeks or so with the little ones, I never carried a spoon. I was a LOT bigger than they were, so I didn't think I needed a weapon of mass destruction to get them to behave. I would get behind them, put my hands over theirs, we would pick up a toy to be put away, and I would walk them on my knees to the toy shelf, put it on there, and then congratulate them on a good job. They were so precious. I remember one little red-haired guy who clung to me constantly, and another kid, 13 months old, who was placed in shoes and weaned on the first day of residence. He cried ALL the time. I was just dazed, what are these people thinking? What kind of organization forces parents to do that to their little ones?
Our church just finished VBS and it was such a breath of fresh air. Our children were treated with love, kindness, humor, and respect. I mean, if we can't love them up and have fun with them, how can we possibly expect them to learn to love God? On the last night, one little guy got one word wrong in a Bible verse he was asked to recite. Do you think he was screamed at, smote with mighty blows, cursed as being possessed? Do you think his parents were reamed for not teaching him better? OH HECK NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! He was congratulated and it was completely ignored. (It was a word like and or the or something, but he never would have been embarrassed in public by anyone anyway.)
Jesus said referred to children that it would be better to have a millstone hung on your neck and be cast into the depths of the sea than to offend one of these little ones. I can't imagine why it was so important to disobey the Lord on this in FWC.
speaking of reciting bible verses... in residence during lunch they would hold this sort of contest (though no one actually won anything of course, except maybe brownie a** kissing points with the FC coordinator) to see who could say the books of the bible the fastest. (from memory and in order). so this one day this smart-azz kid gets up there and just goes "bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" for about 45 seconds. it was hilarious! everyone laughed. then we all got yelled at. and the poor kid got creamed.
i repeat: *finger wagging* "no fun should ever be had at the expense of the bible! PERIOD!" or something like that...
i personally always get stumped somewhere around nayhumhabbukuckablahblahblah... guess jesus will be very dissapointed in me at the gathering together... or will it be king james? will he be there to quiz us?
That is just so meaningless. I don't think they were teaching kids to love and trust God at all, rather the opposite. I mean, if LCM or WC or PM or the people who ran the childrens' programs were God's personal representatives, what kind of God is He?
Also I want to amend my previous post. A wooden spoon was a weapon of azz destruction!
I remember a little video made in the early seventies.. forget what it was called.. but it was the nightly news, if der vey as then had their say in it.
One little kid was being interviewed as being the head of international children's outreach.. and he was mimicing the vicster's mannerisms.. in the end, he rides off into the sunset in a golf cart..
it was funny then. But now I find it at least a little troubling..
Were we raising kids to be little mogs and moglettes? I think so. Same damn unrealistic expectations that we put on ourselves, we put on kids, even back in the "good old days".. sheesh.
There was that victory mindset in an extreme sense at times but at the same time I always felt like I fell way short of it and that I was not able to accomplish much without the oversight of others.
My son was never in-rez (born much later) but by the time he came along, this kind of teaching was prevelent on the field, as well. It was a long-standing argument with my ex ---
I thought our job as parents was to teach our son how to deal with feelings as they happened: upset, fear, self-doubt, etc.
He thought our job as believer parents was to somehow teach our child to OVERCOME (ie ERADICATE) those feelings from his life, as though he could somehow prevent them from happening in the first place.
So, as lindyhopper says, you present the child with a very high standard for right behavior and success, then you make them feel like they are always a failure for never being able to truly reach those standards... unbelievably damaging to a small child!!
wow that Ghost busters thing really jarred some memories.. we were mini corps F11, albeit that was Christmas story and Electric Boogaloo (how I remember the years) in rez,.. but I think I remember something about the screening of exorcist, and the firestorm afterwards... I still shudder at the thought of popcorn in a brown paper bag, can't stomach carob or raisins. 3 x 5 cards, the word retimories (sp? eh i don't believe this is even a real word) , stop signs remind me of SIT, I sat up last night and watched the first 2 1/2 seasons of transformers last night finally realizing I missed out on that.. the "rover" stories hit too close to home.. I too got grounded or rather beat cause I couldn't SIT and my interpretation was the same pre-scripted schtick every time.. and of course I caught the occasional bad one for not witnessing accordingly, but rather going through the motions.. the hedge of protection was my curfew/boundary line in later parts of high school..
I did however have a few fond memories, break dancing in the hallway making due with way approved music, and whatever tapes other kids could smuggle through.. snow days, capture the flag on harry man hill, I did make some great friends who I still remember to this day.. So even though we were ostracized, wore mostly hand me downs or GIVEAWAY clothes to school, missed out on some of the most important pieces of pop culture to a 8 yr old, emotionally abandoned by our parents and basically shunned by the junior corps .. we collectively stuck together and made the best of what we could..
It's extremely difficult to attempt to discount such aspects of your life for the sake of beginning anew when, really that is all you knew.. It would be great if I could get that "child abuse of twi" forum link from someone
BTW Thank you for the welcoming, unfortunately I'm more of a lurker than a poster, if anything a quick reply kinda guy.. but if I see something that perhaps I can contribute to.. I'll definitely add a voice..
<< also I'm not sure if there's protocol for name-tossing here, or if everyone would rather keep up a good sense of anonymity >>
I'm not a moderator or staff, but I know a few answers here.
wow that Ghost busters thing really jarred some memories.. we were mini corps F11, albeit that was Christmas story and Electric Boogaloo (how I remember the years) in rez,.. but I think I remember something about the screening of exorcist, and the firestorm afterwards... I still shudder at the thought of popcorn in a brown paper bag, can't stomach carob or raisins. 3 x 5 cards, the word retimories (sp? eh i don't believe this is even a real word) ,
It is a "real word" in that language is organic and that word was used, and dictionary
appearances don't determine whether that's so, the recognize existing usage.
If not, we'd never get new words like "fax" or "email" or even "internet."
This word WAS, however, made up in twi as a portmanteau of the words
"retain" and "memorize". So, before twi, this wasn't a real word, and it's only used by
people who picked it up IN twi or FROM twi.
stop signs remind me of SIT, I sat up last night and watched the first 2 1/2 seasons of transformers last night finally realizing I missed out on that.. the "rover" stories hit too close to home.. I too got grounded or rather beat cause I couldn't SIT and my interpretation was the same pre-scripted schtick every time.. and of course I caught the occasional bad one for not witnessing accordingly, but rather going through the motions.. the hedge of protection was my curfew/boundary line in later parts of high school..
I did however have a few fond memories, break dancing in the hallway making due with way approved music, and whatever tapes other kids could smuggle through.. snow days, capture the flag on harry man hill, I did make some great friends who I still remember to this day.. So even though we were ostracized, wore mostly hand me downs or GIVEAWAY clothes to school, missed out on some of the most important pieces of pop culture to a 8 yr old, emotionally abandoned by our parents and basically shunned by the junior corps .. we collectively stuck together and made the best of what we could..
It's extremely difficult to attempt to discount such aspects of your life for the sake of beginning anew when, really that is all you knew.. It would be great if I could get that "child abuse of twi" forum link from someone
BTW Thank you for the welcoming, unfortunately I'm more of a lurker than a poster, if anything a quick reply kinda guy.. but if I see something that perhaps I can contribute to.. I'll definitely add a voice..
<< also I'm not sure if there's protocol for name-tossing here, or if everyone would rather keep up a good sense of anonymity >>
Occasional posters are completely welcome here.
Feel free to post whenever you want.
As for the protocol for name-tossing, the usual policy here is:
the people at the top of twi, on the actual BOARD, are fair game to mention.
Thus, you can type "victor paul wierwille, ermal owens, harry ernst wierwille, loy craig martindale,
rosemary fox rivenbark" and so on through the current and past board members.
If you want to give YOUR OWN name, you can. However, anyplace you post it will be searchable
online for as long as the board exists, and thus it's not recommended you include any information
you don't want the entire internet to have.
(So I don't post my name, address, phone#, birth date, Social Security#, and so on.)
If you want to name someone other than yourself or a member of twi's board, or the tiny handful
who were up at the very top of twi, there's policies for that.
For example, if you want to discuss the Bob who, along with his wife ensured that a lot of vpw's
PERSONAL victims were not going to press charges, you can substitute characters, so that the
names don't show up in internet searches.
Thus, B*b M*yn1han is one way to render it, and we know who he is.
Or B*b Mo****an (which is harder to recognize.)
Or just initials (which is handier when discussing less-famous people like you or me.)
Then again, some people-like my example- have gotten nicknames like "Moneyhands" which
are recognizable AND seem to fit all on their own.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
5
6
6
5
Popular Days
Jun 11
20
Jun 12
5
Jul 3
5
Jul 4
5
Top Posters In This Topic
Watered Garden 5 posts
Ham 6 posts
Shifra 6 posts
minicorpse 5 posts
Popular Days
Jun 11 2007
20 posts
Jun 12 2007
5 posts
Jul 3 2007
5 posts
Jul 4 2007
5 posts
Bramble
Makes you wonder if some people who are in and really like being IN don't have a sadistic streak--and the beliefs of the ministry give it a nice righteous cover.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
No wonder about it Bramble.
I saw the nastiest bullies were the ones who recieved the accolaides and were moved up the ladder the quickest.
When everybody we knew with heart and integrety were being fired and thrown out in the late 80s, and my spouse was saying it was time for us to leave as well....I can remember desperately telling him that if all of us left, it would leave the bullies who enjoyed hurting people in charge.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AJern
Sound description right there. I was born in the way, (scary how right that sounds) my life was dictated by any and every man or woman associated with my parents in the ministry. Before, during and after residence. My older sisters also, but I only saw the physical and verbal abuse.. they weren't so lucky. Our parents were always either working, in a meeting, working on a teaching, witnessing, running bookstore, or fellowshipping.. honestly, much of my childhood is like the supposed FOG.. I can't remember who watched over me.. In rome city, we were diagnosed with social cancer.. WAYERS ostrasized at school.. and of course any other time, confined to campus.. unless by some miracle mom and dad had a saturday afternoon free, and were given permission to leave for a few hours.. whoo hoo fort wayne here we come.. bah .. so bitter still I guess.. still look at anyone "sharing" the word with a hefty heaping of skepticism.. just recently at 29 did I allow my family to attend a church full time.. I find myself in social panic alot, we were forced into so many things.. free will wasn't an option.. that whole victory bs also, both of my sisters jumped at becoming mark and avoid almost the second we arrived in tx. I was left to suffer at the wrath of the way, alone.. parents still in constant spin.. I've heard Disney World is pretty cool.. but hell if I know.. Mom and Dad are great now.. I consider them compatriots not to mention.. GREAT GRANDPARENTS!! BUt for the longest time, I hated them, sorry mom and dad.. but it's true.. Thank god I had enough sense to rebel, otherwise I would of probably shrugged off craig's charges as adversary workings and "stood" to fall for even more crap than my parents..
The long term effects are detrimental to the shear fabric of the conscious understanding of life.. I was born when I disconnected.. I had to rediscover breath.. I wish the life on no one
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bramble
How sad, Ajern. Your story just makes me want to cry. I wish you strength on your journey!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
AJern, Disney IS cool! Bring the family on down sometime and I'll be delighted to show y'all around.
Thank God, indeed for those rebellious streaks in so many of us.
My little brother kept telling my mom that one day they'd tell me one too many times what to do and I'd bolt. Sure 'nuff.... I got tired of being controlled, manipulated, micromanaged and then they kept harping on how evil the internet is.... well, my job requires that I be able to get around on the WWW, so I knew that was bunk and, of course, had to look for whatever it was they obviously didn't want us to see. It really isn't wise, usually, to tell me NOT to do something. 
So glad to have you here at the Cafe! The air is fresh and sweet, so breath in deeply.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Georgio Jessio
I relate to every word. Maybe I know you? I was in F9, hit me with a private message if you like.
peace
Link to comment
Share on other sites
minicorpse
ajern, georgio, all i can say is DITTO DITTO DITTO.
it is tough as a kid when you are getting it from all sides; especially in residence when everyone and their mother can and will discipline you! TWI always tried to teach us "freedom from fear" but all they practiced was tyranny. does anyone ever wonder what weekly doses of LCM's ranting and swearing does to kids? in the corps kids were exposed to everything their parents were... yes, it's true we were taught that in the bible children were stoned for disobeying their parents, many times over. we were also taught to mistrust the secular world, all other faiths, and pretty much everyone outside the way. devil spirits could contaminate us at any moment, even kill us if we stepped outside of the protection of the household. if i ever told one little lie or doubted any of the teachings i then lived in constant fear of retribution for days afterward. if i fell down and scraped my knees on the playground, was it because the devil spirits were after me? i was always told that god would protect me, but then i was also taught that i was a target... so how did we ever learn anything but fear? when did they ever make us feel safe? or even loved?
sorry if this if off topic... but does anyone remember when in residence at the indiana campus they screened "ghost busters" for the kids one night? whew! i think a few people got fired for it. meanwhile i was having nightmares for weeks-- but not because of the film (we never actually saw the whole thing)-- but because of what they told us it would do to us as kids.
and then there was "athletes of the spirit"... oddly enough, the only film we were allowed to watch. scarey!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JavaJane
In many ways, Mini, it seemed like the "devil spirits" were used as a sort of twi boogie man who would come and get you if you weren't good enough for God to protect you.
How in the world is anyone supposed to be able to dictate what God can and cannot do it God truly is all powerful? God CAN'T protect you if you disobey. God CAN'T prosper you if you are in debt. God CAN'T protect you if you leave the way. Makes God look pretty weak, doesn't it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lindyhopper
I believe I was in at the time MiniC. We were allowed to watch ghost busters one night and the next morning heads were rolling. Not being AC grads yet, we were not prepared for those kind of spiritual realities.
Cats and Dogs sleeping together, total pandamonium! The Gate Keeper and the Key Master, ectoplasm, and a giant stay puffed mashmallow man, good thing there were spiritual heavies on campus to keep us still on their spiritual teet safe from evils like those.
What sirG was talking about hits home....sort of. There was that victory mindset in an extreme sence at times but at the same time I always felt like I fell way short of it and that I was not able to accomplish much without the oversight of others. You needed leaders to succeed and they (many of them, not all) needed to be apart of every decision as "wise counsil", but with your life under that close scrutiny, it was inevitable that they would find something wrong with you, something you needed to change, something they felt was holding you back. What was missing was a little faith, if you will. Faith in yourself allowing you to make a leap, maybe a blind one, and learning from the success and/or failure.
In starting my own business, in a similarly paradoxical way, this has been both a prod and a hurdle to get over. On the one hand, there has been a feeling of inadequecy and self doubt at times, but on the other is the strong distaste for a boss telling me what to do all the time.
Of course there could be a lot of things about me and my life attributing to these things.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
polar bear
We did make mistakes with our kids and there were effects on them through our twi involvement. It still hurts my heart.
But as a parent you protect your children and we tried our best to give them love and encouragement (more than what we got from twi).
We can't go back in time. But we can give of our time and make sure they feel loved. That's all we can do.
As I said before, it was our children who helped us see the evil of twi. We started to see twi's bad influence on their lives. We even asked them if they would stand when they were out on their own. They said "no way" so that's when we said "we're outta here".
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JavaJane
polar bear -
I can only speak for myself, and I know my parents would argue the point with me, but I place no blame upon them for anything that happened to me in twi. They did what they thought was best, made some mistakes along the way, but they really tried to be good parents. They loved us the best they knew how. The only ones to blame were the leadership who taught things wrongly and encouraged the hurt.
This is only my opinion, of course, but as you said, you can't go back in time to change things. Now we know better.
Love your kids for who they are and don't look at them as "damaged goods" because of what happened before. Believe in your kids. Encourage them. Teach them to be independant thinkers and back up the decisions they make for their lives.
I love my parents even though they got me into twi. I don't hold it against them. If it wasn't for that I never would have met my husband, who I love very deeply. I guess I got one good thing out of twi!!
Hugs to all the parents.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
minicorpse
gee, i wish you were my parent.
unfortunately mine are still in though, and in big denial. i know they feel bad about some things, like the fact that i am no longer a believer. they know they pushed me too strongly and punished me for the wrong reasons-- like grounding me for not SIT. forcing your kids and using scare tactics to get them to believe is not an option! but they are also still as arrogant as ever and see their way and TWI as the only right belief system. it makes me and my brother so sad... and angry. they just cannot understand to this day why we are so bitter about what happened to us. i am currently deep in the "child abuse in TWI" forum which was started a few years ago and all i can do is nod my head over and over. we were beaten, we were verbally and sexually and physically abused and yet my parents turn a blind eye. to this day they refuse to acknowledge any of it. i saw my brother beaten repeatedly-- broken wooden spoons were the norm! many adults carried extras for this reason! as a young girl i don't remember getting it as bad as the boys, but i still got bruises. actually, some of my worst memories were of the junior corps (not you guys, i'm sure). there was this one girl who just terrorized me... but i digress...
anyway. my heart goes out to all you ex-way parents. i know you really love your kids, and none of this post is directed at you in any way. i don't really know who it is for... maybe someday my parents will wake up, but until then i don't think i can really forgive them. does that make sense?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
minicorpse
i must have been sent to bed early (i was only 6 or 7 at the time).
isn't it funny though, and correct me if i am miss-remembering, but i think they actually taught us that all that stuff was real! i never took the AC, so many films were out of bounds for me... but i remember going to a "word in business" conference in '91 (or something like that) and they were talking about "the exorcist" as if it were an actual documentation of how devil spirits work! although i think they said that the girls head could not actually swivel all the way around, but the rest of it was right on! 
no wonder i grew up scared s***less!!!
and sorry if this is OT! sorry sorry sorry!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Georgio Jessio
I absolutly remember the Ghostbusters thing. What I remember really doing a number on me was the fact that heads did roll and I couldn't see why. When I asked , I was told it was because that entire movie is full of truth and would open my mind to devil spirits because I was still too young to handle them and recognize them. The fact that I asked why was proof that I was spiritually immature.
How about that? Ghostbuster: a true story! I fear marshmallows to this day haha
TWI was big on using fear to keep us in line. How unGodly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shifra
As a parent, looking back, I deeply regret having put my kids through the Family Corps training. Besides exposing them to ridiculous doctrine and the abuses (both physical and verbal) of our peers, there were incidents of actual neglect that still bother me when I think of them.
In the early 90's, Family Corps adults basically worked all day, had evening classes, and often worked later into the night, doing Bless Patrol (later called "Vigilance Patrol") or any of a number of other meaningless tasks. One year we hosted something like seven Advanced Classes, which involved outrageous hours of set-up and take-down, and through it all, our children were shuffled from one "Rover" to another. These "Rovers" were not all responsible people, and even the dedicated ones were exhausted and overworked. Safely tending to twenty or more kids at a time was not really possible. The poor kids would act up, having not been with their parents for days, and the wooden spoon was the accepted remedy for all behavior problems.
Many times, there would be soccer games or school plays or other events that we parents could not attend, even though our kids were usually allowed to do these extracurricular school activities. That is ... of course ... if they had WRITTEN permission from the Children's Activities Director, as well as the Family Corps Director, THREE DAYS IN ADVANCE !!! Do you guys remember this? When I think of how kids in the normal world enjoy spontaneous trips to the Dairy Queen, or a weekend slumber party that might have been arranged on Thursday afternoon, I realize how ripped off the Corps kids were. Transitioning back and forth between the friendships they had in Public School and the absurdity of life at the Way College campus ... must have been awful for these youngsters. And their parents - including myself - were rarely available to help them process any of it.
I remember one night, praying with my fourth-grader. It was a few minutes after the designated bed-time for his age group, and the "Rover" on duty barged into my boy's room and interrupted our prayer, confronting me for violating the curfew, and wouldn't leave the room until I did. I remember another time when one of my sons, age 12, had a tooth removed by the dentist, and asked to miss fellowship that night because he was in pain. They said he could stay in his room, but couldn't come out for anything. Late that night I checked on him, and discovered blood all over his bedding. He knew he had been bleeding too much, but was afraid to come out of his room to ask for help.
No big deal, right? But when this was the norm, the day-to-day way of life that children grew up in, it still upsets me that I condoned this for my own kids.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Shifra
One more memory ...
Prom night. My boy, a high school junior, had a date with a very nice girl from town, for the Prom. But here's how it had to be: SHE paid for his tux rental. SHE drove HER car to pick him up at the Way College campus. SHE bought the flowers - for herself as well as for him. SHE paid for dinner. And HE had to be back at the campus by midnight.
Now, THAT is a really weird prom night. No wonder the community viewed Way kids as kooks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Georgio Jessio
"Besides exposing them to ridiculous doctrine and the abuses (both physical and verbal) of our peers, there were incidents of actual neglect that still bother me when I think of them."
Add "sexual" to that list of abuses. NEGLECT in all caps too.
"Bless Patrol (later called "Vigilance Patrol") "
Well chalk one up for TWI! "Bless Patrol" was an oxi moron. "Vigilance Patrol" while still a euphamism is more accurate.
"These "Rovers" were not all responsible people, and even the dedicated ones were exhausted and overworked."
One of my first sexual encounters was with a rover. Rovers were random people left with kids. No training, no screening. No one outside of a cult would even consider this system a good idea.
"Prom night. My boy, a high school junior, had a date with a very nice girl from town, for the Prom. But here's how it had to be: SHE paid for his tux rental. SHE drove HER car to pick him up at the Way College campus. SHE bought the flowers - for herself as well as for him. SHE paid for dinner. And HE had to be back at the campus by midnight."
Aweful! We were never allowed to participate in a normal way with school activities. I remember I was supposed to bring eggs to home economics and TWI wanted me to pay for them. I had no money, nor did my mom. I got an F.
Thanks Moneyahnds!
To any parents feeling guilty: You were in a cult. You had the best intentions. You were brainwashed. It's not your fault that your trust was violated and it worked against your kids. Love your kids and move on. You were hurt too. Life goes on, live and learn.
Your kids still love you.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
GJ,
When you think of how much money your mom had to acquire from "spiritual partners" to be in FWC, a couple dozen eggs from the abundance of chickens that were clucking in that yard doesn't seem like a whole lot, now does it?
And I think every abuse and neglect kids suffered was a huge, enormous, gigantic deal!
I remember once we had an assignment from Mrs. WC (F), to write a lesson plan teaching God's Word to children. If we worked with the young'ns, that was the age group you had to make a lesson for. I was taking care of 13-19 month old babies. Think of a 30-minute lesson plan which has to include a specific Scripture verse for them to memorize! They can't friggin' TALK! They can't read, and their retemory skills are not that hot, either. They are poopin' in diapers, for Pete's sake! And you want them to stand up and spout off Ephesians 6:1, 2, and 3??:????? How lame is that?
I don't remember what I wrote, but it came back with a F and blistering note: "You have not shown me you know ANYTHING about teacing God's Word to children". Well, kiss my grits!
BTW, my six weeks or so with the little ones, I never carried a spoon. I was a LOT bigger than they were, so I didn't think I needed a weapon of mass destruction to get them to behave. I would get behind them, put my hands over theirs, we would pick up a toy to be put away, and I would walk them on my knees to the toy shelf, put it on there, and then congratulate them on a good job. They were so precious. I remember one little red-haired guy who clung to me constantly, and another kid, 13 months old, who was placed in shoes and weaned on the first day of residence. He cried ALL the time. I was just dazed, what are these people thinking? What kind of organization forces parents to do that to their little ones?
Our church just finished VBS and it was such a breath of fresh air. Our children were treated with love, kindness, humor, and respect. I mean, if we can't love them up and have fun with them, how can we possibly expect them to learn to love God? On the last night, one little guy got one word wrong in a Bible verse he was asked to recite. Do you think he was screamed at, smote with mighty blows, cursed as being possessed? Do you think his parents were reamed for not teaching him better? OH HECK NO! A THOUSAND TIMES NO! He was congratulated and it was completely ignored. (It was a word like and or the or something, but he never would have been embarrassed in public by anyone anyway.)
Jesus said referred to children that it would be better to have a millstone hung on your neck and be cast into the depths of the sea than to offend one of these little ones. I can't imagine why it was so important to disobey the Lord on this in FWC.
WG
Edited by Watered GardenLink to comment
Share on other sites
minicorpse
speaking of reciting bible verses... in residence during lunch they would hold this sort of contest (though no one actually won anything of course, except maybe brownie a** kissing points with the FC coordinator) to see who could say the books of the bible the fastest. (from memory and in order). so this one day this smart-azz kid gets up there and just goes "bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" for about 45 seconds. it was hilarious! everyone laughed. then we all got yelled at. and the poor kid got creamed.
i repeat: *finger wagging* "no fun should ever be had at the expense of the bible! PERIOD!" or something like that...
i personally always get stumped somewhere around nayhumhabbukuckablahblahblah... guess jesus will be very dissapointed in me at the gathering together... or will it be king james? will he be there to quiz us?
jerks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Watered Garden
That is just so meaningless. I don't think they were teaching kids to love and trust God at all, rather the opposite. I mean, if LCM or WC or PM or the people who ran the childrens' programs were God's personal representatives, what kind of God is He?
Also I want to amend my previous post. A wooden spoon was a weapon of azz destruction!
WG
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I remember a little video made in the early seventies.. forget what it was called.. but it was the nightly news, if der vey as then had their say in it.
One little kid was being interviewed as being the head of international children's outreach.. and he was mimicing the vicster's mannerisms.. in the end, he rides off into the sunset in a golf cart..
it was funny then. But now I find it at least a little troubling..
Were we raising kids to be little mogs and moglettes? I think so. Same damn unrealistic expectations that we put on ourselves, we put on kids, even back in the "good old days".. sheesh.
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
Share on other sites
TheHighWay
My son was never in-rez (born much later) but by the time he came along, this kind of teaching was prevelent on the field, as well. It was a long-standing argument with my ex ---
I thought our job as parents was to teach our son how to deal with feelings as they happened: upset, fear, self-doubt, etc.
He thought our job as believer parents was to somehow teach our child to OVERCOME (ie ERADICATE) those feelings from his life, as though he could somehow prevent them from happening in the first place.
So, as lindyhopper says, you present the child with a very high standard for right behavior and success, then you make them feel like they are always a failure for never being able to truly reach those standards... unbelievably damaging to a small child!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AJern
wow that Ghost busters thing really jarred some memories.. we were mini corps F11, albeit that was Christmas story and Electric Boogaloo (how I remember the years) in rez,.. but I think I remember something about the screening of exorcist, and the firestorm afterwards... I still shudder at the thought of popcorn in a brown paper bag, can't stomach carob or raisins. 3 x 5 cards, the word retimories (sp? eh i don't believe this is even a real word) , stop signs remind me of SIT, I sat up last night and watched the first 2 1/2 seasons of transformers last night finally realizing I missed out on that.. the "rover" stories hit too close to home.. I too got grounded or rather beat cause I couldn't SIT and my interpretation was the same pre-scripted schtick every time.. and of course I caught the occasional bad one for not witnessing accordingly, but rather going through the motions.. the hedge of protection was my curfew/boundary line in later parts of high school..
I did however have a few fond memories, break dancing in the hallway making due with way approved music, and whatever tapes other kids could smuggle through.. snow days, capture the flag on harry man hill, I did make some great friends who I still remember to this day.. So even though we were ostracized, wore mostly hand me downs or GIVEAWAY clothes to school, missed out on some of the most important pieces of pop culture to a 8 yr old, emotionally abandoned by our parents and basically shunned by the junior corps .. we collectively stuck together and made the best of what we could..
It's extremely difficult to attempt to discount such aspects of your life for the sake of beginning anew when, really that is all you knew.. It would be great if I could get that "child abuse of twi" forum link from someone
BTW Thank you for the welcoming, unfortunately I'm more of a lurker than a poster, if anything a quick reply kinda guy.. but if I see something that perhaps I can contribute to.. I'll definitely add a voice..
<< also I'm not sure if there's protocol for name-tossing here, or if everyone would rather keep up a good sense of anonymity >>
Edited by AJernLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
I'm not a moderator or staff, but I know a few answers here.
It is a "real word" in that language is organic and that word was used, and dictionary
appearances don't determine whether that's so, the recognize existing usage.
If not, we'd never get new words like "fax" or "email" or even "internet."
This word WAS, however, made up in twi as a portmanteau of the words
"retain" and "memorize". So, before twi, this wasn't a real word, and it's only used by
people who picked it up IN twi or FROM twi.
Occasional posters are completely welcome here.
Feel free to post whenever you want.
As for the protocol for name-tossing, the usual policy here is:
the people at the top of twi, on the actual BOARD, are fair game to mention.
Thus, you can type "victor paul wierwille, ermal owens, harry ernst wierwille, loy craig martindale,
rosemary fox rivenbark" and so on through the current and past board members.
If you want to give YOUR OWN name, you can. However, anyplace you post it will be searchable
online for as long as the board exists, and thus it's not recommended you include any information
you don't want the entire internet to have.
(So I don't post my name, address, phone#, birth date, Social Security#, and so on.)
If you want to name someone other than yourself or a member of twi's board, or the tiny handful
who were up at the very top of twi, there's policies for that.
For example, if you want to discuss the Bob who, along with his wife ensured that a lot of vpw's
PERSONAL victims were not going to press charges, you can substitute characters, so that the
names don't show up in internet searches.
Thus, B*b M*yn1han is one way to render it, and we know who he is.
Or B*b Mo****an (which is harder to recognize.)
Or just initials (which is handier when discussing less-famous people like you or me.)
Then again, some people-like my example- have gotten nicknames like "Moneyhands" which
are recognizable AND seem to fit all on their own.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.