Incidentally, I met the Great ForeHead just 'afore he took Piffle. He was still a nice Baptist kid & (sometimes) youth leader. He only spoke nice and certainly no cussin'. His potty mouth came with his rise in the ranks.
I agree.......wierwille was martindale's idol-maker.
On THREE occasions, I sat in corps meetings where wierwille went TOTALLY FXXK... BALLISTIC and used every four-letter word in the vocabulary to strip away the inidividual's dignity and reputation, leaving them anathema for all the "household" to witness. Sicko cultism at its finest! Martindale was present at all three meetings and even added his heapings of evilness after wierwille fumed and stomped off.
Yep, martindale should be very "proud" of his VP and Me publication.
Incidentally, I met the Great ForeHead just 'afore he took Piffle. He was still a nice Baptist kid & (sometimes) youth leader. He only spoke nice and certainly no cussin'. His potty mouth came with his rise in the ranks.
The part that freaked me out was the applause he received when he took a breath! That brought back memories. Reminded me of the last WIB... That was the one with the "Wash my Feet in the Blood" song. I think I should have gotten a clue back then when everyone was applauding everything the MOG said. It was disturbing. I remember starting to feel like I was at some sort of Nazi political rally... Seriously. I should have gotten a clue.
The cleric (who happens to be the ministerial/teaching figure who has had the most significant, long-lasting, and positive effect on me) of a church I attended about 15 years ago seemed to be have been quite impressed with Gene Scott.
At the time, I had never seen or heard Scott, but when the cleric mentioned Scott's money-raising tantrums and rationalization of an upper-crust lifestyle, I smelled a loudmouthed, big-feeling, Wierwillian SOB and quipped to him that it was I (rather than he) that ought to be the one in danger of winding up as a follower of some fellow like that.
(I don’t remember the fellow mentioning Scott’s name to me, again.)
The part that freaked me out was the applause he received when he took a breath! That brought back memories. Reminded me of the last WIB... That was the one with the "Wash my Feet in the Blood" song. I think I should have gotten a clue back then when everyone was applauding everything the MOG said. It was disturbing. I remember starting to feel like I was at some sort of Nazi political rally... Seriously. I should have gotten a clue.
Did you happen to be at the Advance Class Special in TX when that was played? Holy crap... that was sick....
Did you happen to be at the Advance Class Special in TX when that was played? Holy crap... that was sick....
I think it was the AC Special... not WIB. It was weird. At the time, I thought - WOW, Way Prod is finally doing something a little INTERESTING instead of the same old boring stuff. It only hit me later how very weird it really was.
Funny how when you are in the middle of something you can't see it for what it is.
Although I do think Way Prod could use a little spicing up.
Megadeth has a whole album out now with the "Wash my feet in the blood" feel to it. Here's a sample:
Dr Gene Scott was amazing. I'm not offended at the video, reminds me of a baseball manager going nuts... kind of funny.
I can see how its offensive though.
LMAO at the cigar, hat, glasses and beard...
At LEAST he REALLY did have a PHD.
too bad he's dead, i think his wife teaches now.
Gene Scott puts VPW and LCM to absoulte shame. Combined, they don't even come close to his ability, education, impact and apparently rants on worldwide TV.
I agree.......wierwille was martindale's idol-maker.
On THREE occasions, I sat in corps meetings where wierwille went TOTALLY FXXK... BALLISTIC and used every four-letter word in the vocabulary to strip away the inidividual's dignity and reputation, leaving them anathema for all the "household" to witness. Sicko cultism at its finest! Martindale was present at all three meetings and even added his heapings of evilness after wierwille fumed and stomped off.
Yep, martindale should be very "proud" of his VP and Me publication.
vpw was usually smart enough to maintain his MOG image whenever "the cameras were on" and he
was addressing groups of people.
He reserved all his despicable behaviour and his cursing for in private, or when around the corps and
staff. (Usually.) IIRC, the live PFAL '77 taping includes vpw having a meltdown on camera because
some tiny detail wasn't perfect, so he berated some staffer in detail over it. I think he didn't mean to
do that on camera, but he slipped.
Supposedly, the 2 most blindly-loyal-even-unto-painful-death people to vpw were lcm and cg.
cg-when I met him-seemed a VERY nice guy (and I watched him "off-camera", too). However,
this is the same man whom others say they've seen verbally abuse and humiliate people for tiny
errors-real or perceived.
vpw's most loyal students learned a lot of lessons from vpw, and some of them were not what
This guys name is: Dr. Gene Scott. Actually when he does get around to teaching the bible he then comes off as being a real scholar and a real intellectual, not a nut case. I doubt one would ever think he was a nut case if they heard him expound and explain difficult scriptural passages. He can read/write/translate the scriptures directly from various ancient biblical languages - Greek, Syriac, Aramaic, Latin, Ethiopic, etc. Name any ancient biblical language and he can read - write - interpret - translate it word for word, even letter by letter. I think he had more access to those ancient manuscripts, etc. than TWI did.
Good answer, Raf.
Incidentally, I met the Great ForeHead just 'afore he took Piffle. He was still a nice Baptist kid & (sometimes) youth leader. He only spoke nice and certainly no cussin'. His potty mouth came with his rise in the ranks.
Now here's the question I had. Do you think all that (LCM's) cussin' came from his rank and position in TWI, or from his learning the bible "rightly divided". To put it in your own words - he became, i.e. the Great ForeHead.
What a jerk.
Was Jesus Christ a jerk? Jesus Christ got angry (Mark 3:5). Ephesians 4:26 also says, "Be ye angry and sin not ..." so the question is whether or not cussing is a sin - or is it just an expression of someone's "spiritually righteous" anger . If you listened to the above video, there is a point where Dr. Scott exclaims: "You say I'm swearing - NO I'M NOT! I know what God will damn and I'm well in the stream of His Will. I know how to cuss and I'm good at it! But that ain't cussin', that's definition. (You mean all those "bleeped out" words aren't cuss words as only a MOG can use those words and not be cussin, but as for anyone else - they are?)
Here's a video of Dr. Scott (dressed up like a drunken sailor) singing: "Some say cussin's a sin, but pray tell me how that could be true? For cussin' has been in this world since the devil was told go to hell. (O.K. , I get it now - cussin' ain't a sin whenever it's leveled at the devil.) This one is actually laughable. I remember times when VPW made much the same type of comments whenever TWI was being attacked. He put it into perspective - put it into an entertaining production like this for us - remember? We ate it up much like the guy at the end - he even goes crazy! Do any of you remember these times? I do. VPW got right to the point and that's what made us love TWI all the more. Afterall, who wouldn't want to be part of a church like this?
Was Jesus Christ a jerk? Jesus Christ got angry (Mark 3:5). Ephesians 4:26 also says, "Be ye angry and sin not ..." so the question is whether or not cussing is a sin - or is it just an expression of someone's "spiritually righteous" anger
No comparison between the two (imo). The latter is a denigration of the former.
Can't recall where Jesus ever cussed during righteous anger
(unless *fox* and *whited sepulcher* count as cuss words).
What I'm seeing here, and what I saw of lcm,
is a lot of SELF - righteous anger (e.g. DON'T QUESTION ME!!!)
I never had the *privilege* of hearing docvic *cuss righteously in anger*,
(if there is such a thing).
I vaguely remember the incident WordWolf mentioned about live pfal 77.
I do remember docvic losing it while teaching The Red Thread at a SNS.
(sns tape 801 -- 3/ 21/ 1976 if you want to check it out).
At the time that seemed like righteous anger (after all this WAS DOCVIC teaching) ---
(when he was knocking the $h!t out of the pulpit while teaching the Word),
but looking back (these days), I see more self-righteousness, than otherwise.
But that's just me. I never did see where cussing like a sailor/ trooper/ etc.,
yelling in expletives, screaming accusations, or demanding obedience in a threatening tone --
I think one of the reasons we (I'm speaking "we" as an American society in general - not merely the professing Christian community) have become de-sensitized to cussing and swearing is because it is often viewed as a form of legitimate entertainment (i.e. comedy). It is not only done by secular entertainers (i.e. Robin Williams, Eddie Murphy, etc.) but by charasmatic religious individuals (i.e. Dr. Gene Scott, LCM, etc.) to garner support for their movement. There's just something inately funny it seems about one being able to swear like a drunken sailor.
I am thinking there must be some correllation here between the two. Perhaps it shows off one's cleaverness and primarily one does it mainly to gain acceptance and popularity with others. There could be other reasons for it. Do some Christians justify cussing and swearing merely on the premise it is a harmless form of entertainment - underscoring ones wit, or is swearing biblically justifyable as well? The apostle Paul said he counted his previous religious training as: "dung". Now to religious people Paul's comment could come off as swearing and cussing regarding the Old Testament law, and that Paul was also bad-mouthing his religious mentors of the Old Testament law.
There was an interesting discussion (thread) going on this same topic a couple years ago on The Maveric Band Forum located here: The Maveric Band Forum - Debate on Swearing. Some people made some very interesting comments on that forum regarding swearing and whether it was biblically justifiable or not. I'm just trying to get more input and insight here from the GreaseSpot Community on the same topic, since many people I know were exposed to VPW's and LCM's swearing and cussing when they went into their rants and tirades - especially on highly controversial religious topics. I'm thinking the comments on that forum will provide other's with further insight on this topic - maybe even help those who were the subjects of VPW's and LCM's foul mouth and had their character slandered in front of "their friends" at the time.
Cussing is such an intelligent way to enforce your position. It must be why I see it a lot during election debates or political speeches.
It's pretty funny when people say that sometimes swearing is the best or only way to make people realize how important your message is. It just dawned on me how sad that though it is, and how right my mother was.
I know I've lost it and went into swearing fits before and it never helps me do anything but make my situation worse.
I am starting to think this behavior is typical of any preacher or teacher who gets a little insight (not just biblical insight from the bible but in any field) and then end up thinking they are God on a stick because of it. They sure don't want your advice on anything, but they sure want the whole f***in' world to realize they are the expert.
It's pretty funny when people say that sometimes swearing is the best or only way to make people realize how important your message is. It just dawned on me how sad that though it is, and how right my mother was.
I don't think people have to say it; many times it is obvious that this is what they believe.
Cussing is such an intelligent way to enforce your position. It must be why I see it a lot during election debates or political speeches.
It's pretty funny when people say that sometimes swearing is the best or only way to make people realize how important your message is. It just dawned on me how sad that though it is, and how right my mother was.
I know I've lost it and went into swearing fits before and it never helps me do anything but make my situation worse.
When you shock people they listen better - dropping the f-bomb just before hitting a point home is a tactic of many speakers - especially commedians and preachers.
I noticed that Craiggers was really bad with that in the late 80's and early 90's but that he backed off it in the mid-90's - did someone tell him to cool it or something?
I flinched the whole time I watched that first video. I couldn't bring myself to watch the second video.
Yea, yea, yea I've heard all the "righteous anger" arguments. I remember that was the excuse for going off on someone back in TWI.
It just doesn't fly.
He didn't accomplish much more that further polarizing his audience. It appeared to me that he was angry with those that were writing him and telling him he was off in the area of asking for money. So he went off and raged. All he did was MAYBE scare his present followers into subjection. His "enemies" just dug in deeper. - (I know I would have.)
But, those poor scared "faithful ones" ...they saw a man go off on some "sinner" and they determined that they weren't ever gonna tick the MOG off like that. They applauded him in their minds for being such a strong MOG. They cast hateful thoughts in the direction of those who were getting dressed down.
All he did was continue to breed a sense of Pharisee-ism. - "(Lord, I'm thank you that I'm not as bad off as that guy!")
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Raf
My thoughts: he learned from two places.
1. His teacher.
2. the god he served.
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Cowgirl
I think it's all just an act.
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dmiller
As pertains to the above video --- I thought is was the GOOD guys who wore white hats.
Another childhood legend dashed!
:(
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TheEvan
Wow, who is that guy? What a nut.
Good answer, Raf.
Incidentally, I met the Great ForeHead just 'afore he took Piffle. He was still a nice Baptist kid & (sometimes) youth leader. He only spoke nice and certainly no cussin'. His potty mouth came with his rise in the ranks.
What a jerk.
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skyrider
I agree.......wierwille was martindale's idol-maker.
On THREE occasions, I sat in corps meetings where wierwille went TOTALLY FXXK... BALLISTIC and used every four-letter word in the vocabulary to strip away the inidividual's dignity and reputation, leaving them anathema for all the "household" to witness. Sicko cultism at its finest! Martindale was present at all three meetings and even added his heapings of evilness after wierwille fumed and stomped off.
Yep, martindale should be very "proud" of his VP and Me publication.
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ChasUFarley
Evan...
He was at least a Fivehead, c'mon!
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JavaJane
The part that freaked me out was the applause he received when he took a breath! That brought back memories. Reminded me of the last WIB... That was the one with the "Wash my Feet in the Blood" song. I think I should have gotten a clue back then when everyone was applauding everything the MOG said. It was disturbing. I remember starting to feel like I was at some sort of Nazi political rally... Seriously. I should have gotten a clue.
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Cynic
The cleric (who happens to be the ministerial/teaching figure who has had the most significant, long-lasting, and positive effect on me) of a church I attended about 15 years ago seemed to be have been quite impressed with Gene Scott.
At the time, I had never seen or heard Scott, but when the cleric mentioned Scott's money-raising tantrums and rationalization of an upper-crust lifestyle, I smelled a loudmouthed, big-feeling, Wierwillian SOB and quipped to him that it was I (rather than he) that ought to be the one in danger of winding up as a follower of some fellow like that.
(I don’t remember the fellow mentioning Scott’s name to me, again.)
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Eagle
This guy is ...well..not the biggest lightbulb. He needs professional help and knows as much of the Bible as he practices.
Eagle
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ChasUFarley
Did you happen to be at the Advance Class Special in TX when that was played? Holy crap... that was sick....
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JavaJane
I think it was the AC Special... not WIB. It was weird. At the time, I thought - WOW, Way Prod is finally doing something a little INTERESTING instead of the same old boring stuff. It only hit me later how very weird it really was.
Funny how when you are in the middle of something you can't see it for what it is.
Although I do think Way Prod could use a little spicing up.
Megadeth has a whole album out now with the "Wash my feet in the blood" feel to it. Here's a sample:
"The doctrine of hatred
Nation will rise against nation
Wash me in blood and let me be
The firstborn of the dead
A crowned rider with arrows and bow
A red rider with a great firey sword
Flames come from the one called death
Horror and apocalypse follows
(Ride!) Won't you four horsemen ride again
Before this kingdom is blown to kingdom come
I hold fast to what I believe
Till I see my name in stone
Blessed are the dead"
Maybe they used to be part of twi?
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Bramble
Ugh that song--at first I was so glad not to be listening to the Singing Ladies. Then the words started to sink in...
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JavaJane
Bramble - guess you and I were sharing thoughts for a minute there!
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GrouchoMarxJr
He reminded me more of Wierwille than lcm...I thought it was hysterical...this guy isn't far from the same spiel you hear on WWF wrestling...
There's something inside me that just wants to kick the livin' bejeziz out of em...bloody him up good...
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nandon
Dr Gene Scott was amazing. I'm not offended at the video, reminds me of a baseball manager going nuts... kind of funny.
I can see how its offensive though.
LMAO at the cigar, hat, glasses and beard...
At LEAST he REALLY did have a PHD.
too bad he's dead, i think his wife teaches now.
Gene Scott puts VPW and LCM to absoulte shame. Combined, they don't even come close to his ability, education, impact and apparently rants on worldwide TV.
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WordWolf
vpw was usually smart enough to maintain his MOG image whenever "the cameras were on" and he
was addressing groups of people.
He reserved all his despicable behaviour and his cursing for in private, or when around the corps and
staff. (Usually.) IIRC, the live PFAL '77 taping includes vpw having a meltdown on camera because
some tiny detail wasn't perfect, so he berated some staffer in detail over it. I think he didn't mean to
do that on camera, but he slipped.
Supposedly, the 2 most blindly-loyal-even-unto-painful-death people to vpw were lcm and cg.
cg-when I met him-seemed a VERY nice guy (and I watched him "off-camera", too). However,
this is the same man whom others say they've seen verbally abuse and humiliate people for tiny
errors-real or perceived.
vpw's most loyal students learned a lot of lessons from vpw, and some of them were not what
any of US would want as a legacy.
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What The Hey
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dmiller
No comparison between the two (imo). The latter is a denigration of the former.
Can't recall where Jesus ever cussed during righteous anger
(unless *fox* and *whited sepulcher* count as cuss words).
What I'm seeing here, and what I saw of lcm,
is a lot of SELF - righteous anger (e.g. DON'T QUESTION ME!!!)
I never had the *privilege* of hearing docvic *cuss righteously in anger*,
(if there is such a thing).
I vaguely remember the incident WordWolf mentioned about live pfal 77.
I do remember docvic losing it while teaching The Red Thread at a SNS.
(sns tape 801 -- 3/ 21/ 1976 if you want to check it out).
At the time that seemed like righteous anger (after all this WAS DOCVIC teaching) ---
(when he was knocking the $h!t out of the pulpit while teaching the Word),
but looking back (these days), I see more self-righteousness, than otherwise.
But that's just me. I never did see where cussing like a sailor/ trooper/ etc.,
yelling in expletives, screaming accusations, or demanding obedience in a threatening tone --
ever taught some one the love that is in Christ.
:)
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What The Hey
I think one of the reasons we (I'm speaking "we" as an American society in general - not merely the professing Christian community) have become de-sensitized to cussing and swearing is because it is often viewed as a form of legitimate entertainment (i.e. comedy). It is not only done by secular entertainers (i.e. Robin Williams, Eddie Murphy, etc.) but by charasmatic religious individuals (i.e. Dr. Gene Scott, LCM, etc.) to garner support for their movement. There's just something inately funny it seems about one being able to swear like a drunken sailor.
I am thinking there must be some correllation here between the two. Perhaps it shows off one's cleaverness and primarily one does it mainly to gain acceptance and popularity with others. There could be other reasons for it. Do some Christians justify cussing and swearing merely on the premise it is a harmless form of entertainment - underscoring ones wit, or is swearing biblically justifyable as well? The apostle Paul said he counted his previous religious training as: "dung". Now to religious people Paul's comment could come off as swearing and cussing regarding the Old Testament law, and that Paul was also bad-mouthing his religious mentors of the Old Testament law.
There was an interesting discussion (thread) going on this same topic a couple years ago on The Maveric Band Forum located here: The Maveric Band Forum - Debate on Swearing. Some people made some very interesting comments on that forum regarding swearing and whether it was biblically justifiable or not. I'm just trying to get more input and insight here from the GreaseSpot Community on the same topic, since many people I know were exposed to VPW's and LCM's swearing and cussing when they went into their rants and tirades - especially on highly controversial religious topics. I'm thinking the comments on that forum will provide other's with further insight on this topic - maybe even help those who were the subjects of VPW's and LCM's foul mouth and had their character slandered in front of "their friends" at the time.
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Nato
Cussing is such an intelligent way to enforce your position. It must be why I see it a lot during election debates or political speeches.
It's pretty funny when people say that sometimes swearing is the best or only way to make people realize how important your message is. It just dawned on me how sad that though it is, and how right my mother was.
I know I've lost it and went into swearing fits before and it never helps me do anything but make my situation worse.
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Lifted Up
What behavior, the cussing?
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Lifted Up
I don't think people have to say it; many times it is obvious that this is what they believe.
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ChasUFarley
When you shock people they listen better - dropping the f-bomb just before hitting a point home is a tactic of many speakers - especially commedians and preachers.
I noticed that Craiggers was really bad with that in the late 80's and early 90's but that he backed off it in the mid-90's - did someone tell him to cool it or something?
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doojable
I flinched the whole time I watched that first video. I couldn't bring myself to watch the second video.
Yea, yea, yea I've heard all the "righteous anger" arguments. I remember that was the excuse for going off on someone back in TWI.
It just doesn't fly.
He didn't accomplish much more that further polarizing his audience. It appeared to me that he was angry with those that were writing him and telling him he was off in the area of asking for money. So he went off and raged. All he did was MAYBE scare his present followers into subjection. His "enemies" just dug in deeper. - (I know I would have.)
But, those poor scared "faithful ones" ...they saw a man go off on some "sinner" and they determined that they weren't ever gonna tick the MOG off like that. They applauded him in their minds for being such a strong MOG. They cast hateful thoughts in the direction of those who were getting dressed down.
All he did was continue to breed a sense of Pharisee-ism. - "(Lord, I'm thank you that I'm not as bad off as that guy!")
It's sad really. Very, very sad.
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