Sprawled Out, thank you – yes, I’m afraid I’m much more in touch with my “authentic self” than some folks would like. I’ve certainly lost the quiet, submissive aspects of my self that were prominent during my TWIt days. :D Someone in the process of leaving TWI sent me a PM and this seemed like a good topic for the person to see different thoughts on.
I think that getting involved in community activities, clubs and non-religious organizations we never had time for are great. It also helps us to rediscover the hobbies and interests we had before we weren’t allowed to have them.
I was so socially retarded, so getting involved with dog training and AKC shows really helped me get over that and introduced me to something I’d never known much about, much less been all that interested in. From there it was a spring board into other interests.
The adult that leaves 15 years later has no real self, because the immature self of the teenager they once were doesn`t work as an adult.
For me it is an ongoing exciting adventure of exploring who and what I want to be. It is like starting over with a clean slate. Where I go from here is up to me.
Rascal, I LOVE those two lines! Yes, there is a distinct advantage for those who got involved later in life. I was in my mid-20’s and already on my way to accomplishing the life goals I had – silly me thought TWI would help me get there quicker, safer, easier, etc….
As for the clean slate – awesome analogy! When we leave, we really are a clean slate in so many ways, aren’t we? We now have the power to become who WE want us to become and not who someone else wants us to be.
(((((Penguin))))) - Sooooo good to see you!!
Probably one of my greatest fears, though, is that if I find my true self, she'll be a real bytch and I won't like her.
WG, LOL! The number one reason you’ll never see me try out for any kind of reality show, much as I might like to.
LAE, yeah, I have thought about adopting. I’ve actually gathered quite a bit of information on it thinking that if I’m not married by the time I’m 40, I might do like a friend of mine and adopt a child for my 40th birthday present. But, I’m just not too sure about being a single mom. Doesn’t seem fair or right to intentionally bring a kid into a situation like that.
Ham, I liked the Universalist church I attended, too. It was a big deal for me the day I could listen to someone talk about the Bible without cringing, critiquing or condescending to them.
Dooj – I think that was a wake up call for me, too. The day I woke up and realized, “This is MY house – MY dog – MY car – MY stuff and I’m not doing too bad, thank you very much!” I realized I am actually doing a pretty darn good job of taking care of myself and I’m not nearly as stoopid, incompetent and “unprotected” as TWI would have me believe. THAT gave me the confidence to keep on keeping on.
Notta – I think a divorce group would have been ideal for me at the time. Wish I had thought of that. Leaving TWI is like a divorce – it was an all consuming part of our life, and, just like with a divorce, you lose your friends because they pick the former spouse over you.
Another Spot – I hear ya! WayDale and GSpot were life-savers for me!
I guess getting involved in REAL LIFE, inter-acting with NORMAL folks is the main key.
There's a big bright world out here. Enjoy the sunshine.
Let the cloud's rain on someone else.
Choose life.
:)
David - :eusa_clap:
Glad – I’m so glad all of the people I tried to get involved were too smart to fall for the b.s. I was feeding them. The only guilt I had about it was not being able to get my ex to see what I saw.
Mo – AMEN! I never realized how secretive we really were during our TWIt days – least, I was. If I knew someone was likely to argue or debate me, I’d avoid them. I certainly never shared some of the more bizarre things we did – like taking inventory of our whole house – stockpiling potable water tablets – etc…. It’s so much nicer to just “let it all hang out” – love me or leave me, but at least you know who “me” is for real. :D
That's one of the things about GSC that has really helped me - the fact I can be anonymous. I am no one's daughter, I have no nametag announcing my "rank" in the Household. I am not just so-and-so's wife. I am totally free to be whoever I want to be, and it is helping me to find out who I am inside.
Java Jane – I hear ya! It’s like having the rug pulled out from under your feet when you never even saw the munchkin standing there threatening to pull it.
Somewhere during my own recovery process I decided that I was going to quit trying to please others or to live up to THEIR expectations of me. I decided that I was going to be, do, say, feel the way I wanted and if they didn’t like who I was then so be it. I mean, I put up with the quirks of other people and dearly love friends I disagree with or who sometimes disappoint me, but I still love ‘em, ya know? Why on earth would I think that friends and loved ones wouldn’t feel the same about me? Why on earth would I want to try to hold onto and appease people who wouldn’t??
...And isn't that why we love to come here?...Like returning to the scene of a crime...reaffirming to ourselves that we weren't the only ones that were fu *ked over...but more than that...celebrating our liberation from "waybrain" and connecting to each other through the common experience of surviving twi...and being able to relate to each other from those common experiences...
The "Spot" is where we spend time sorting things out, telling our stories...each of us...and then we see the tapestry form a picture. There is no "party line" here...there are differing opinions and folks are encouraged to think for themselves. Many of us have concluded that twi wasn't much more than a "baptized Amway"...Be that as it may, we have all learned and continue to learn...because..."Learning is an exciting adventure"!!!
Many of us have concluded that twi wasn't much more than a "baptized Amway"...Be that as it may, we have all learned and continue to learn...because..."Learning is an exciting adventure [paleeze ]"!!!
In a strange kinda way.. I don't think a person can see it in themselves. If you really saw it in yourself, you'd worship the dang mirror for the rest of your days.
But if you think you want to know, to find.. think twice..
you may get your prayer answered. You may get more than you asked for.
Ah Ham,You mean the Christ in you?I was kinda looking at the me thing,
somewhere is self,the group thing of twi was scary,lose self,become one big
likeminded monster,easily controlled,we were.
Somewhere in all this shi@ is the self awareness the purpose.
When you take away the amway of twi it falls apart,Yeah Gods word is there but where
were we? Certainaly expendable to the machine,as they were the all.
Dont worry what to think we wll tell you what to think Pink Floyd.
The utopia actually distopia can never be acheived,The destruction of self by catcup
should be brought again.
Oh well deep thoughts! I laugh harder ,I live freeer.Yeah greasespoters,we had to deprogram ourselves,when we picked up the peices ofI.We began to build the authentic self.
How does one regain their self-esteem, their sense of self-worth, confidence in making our own decisions, taking care of ourselves, asking for help when we need it? How do you / did you get back to the "real you"?
What I did was - - I asked.
I asked myself, just who in the world AM I? I had found that I had lost (even though I was SURE that I hadn't) parts of myself. Not only to TWI but to different roles that I found myself attempting to live up to.
What I found along the way, as many folks have mentioned - its a journey, a process; is that losing yourself is a normal part of life that just about everybody goes through. Psychologists warn of the dangers of living life according to our roles. TWI just exacerbated (and continues to exacerbate) that normal - albeit it negative part of life's process.
Millions of people live the insanity of going through life role-playing as opposed to actually living.
When I learned that, that fact alone freed me from the vast majority of TWI's BS. What was freeing to me was realizing that influence" from TWI is in reality smoke & mirrors. TWI is, in reality just like the Wizard of OZ.... a BIG ugly loud head projected larger than life onto the "screen" we see, but the actual wizard behind the screen is a little scared wimpy dude - with NO real power over us.
What I asked myself was simply EVERYTHING.
I questioned everything I do and everything that I think I think - literally everything.
It took and is taking some time. I say taking, because life itself is a continual process of growth.
To get free from TWI was, and really is NOT a major focus in our quest for freedom from the cult. Reason being is that lauding TWI to the top of "things I need to be free from" actually is succumbing to what they want, which is to influence folk to believe that TWI is the biggest thing in their life. They hide under the auspicies that since they "represent God to you" that the relationship w/ TWI by inference, should be the biggest thing to you... - - NOT !!!!
Being truly free is to be free from EVERYTHING that enslaves you. TWI is only ONE thing to be free from - -no matter how deeply "in" a person was - - no matter how "bad" you were - - so what?
Its the influence we afflict ourselves with - playing the role that we need to be free from.
Actually we don't even need to free ourselves from TWI or anything else. What we need to do is to become committed to whatever we think we want to be. Day by day moment by moment. Become committed to the reality that is you, the way you see yourself, or the way you want to see yourself.
That requires, in my opinion a great deal of honesty.
Again, the key for me was asking.
What do I like to do?
What have I always wanted to do with my life? Is this that I'm doing, that? Do I like it? What can I do to change it if I don't?
Just ask yourself questions and answer them as you see fit. A huge discovery for me was which things I believe because I believe them and which things I believe(d) because VPW (in context) or or someone else believes them.
I had lost parts of myself to my role as husband, father, artist, etc. TWI just exacerbated the losing myself thing.
Throughout the process I've held onto SOME of what I learned from VPW and TWI as well as every other teaching influence in my life. After settling on things I believe and things I now know I like, etc. That protects me from other things that might seek to control me like TWI does.
Also, I've found great value in the rough experiences I've had, not only in TWI but in every other bad experience in my life.
By placing TWI in its proper place, I've learned just how much influence they actually had over me, & how much they try to have in general AND just how much influence I GAVE them.
Its been a great journey. At this point I wouldn't trade my TWI experience for a life w/out it because overcoming the negative parts of it have built some good things into me that I'm not sure I'd have learned without it. One should recognize thier roles in life but mot be so bound by them as to do crazy things, JUST because "I'm a (fill in the blank) and that's what we do. Being free from a "role" allows a person to say, for example, "I'm a police officer, but I recognize the fact that although you broke the law by not stopping at a stop sign, I won't give you a ticket under these unique circumstances."
We all know how Wayhead is was totally reactionary, group think mindset. Being free of roles allows a person to actually grow and even change how they live at different points. We change to being proactive and realize that we now know, better than most folk, just what living some alternative reality life-style is like. We can now recognize the signs & symptoms and techniques that people use for control and avoid those pitfalls.
My input into this subject is don't focus about being reactive in life according to your roles. Don't focus too much on becoming free from TWI.... You will become free from TWI along the way as you just become proactively committed to living as you actually are. Just ASK yourself, in a very detailed manner who you are and live according to your answers. If you don't like yourself change yourself in the specific area to something you DO like.
Soon you'll really love yourself!
Bottom line is that God is still on the throne. True freedom in life comes from one's relationship w/Him.
I am very glad that you started this thread...as I am very thankful for all threads like this one.
I sympathize with so many of you who completely lost yourselves to the demon ruling TWI. It makes me eternally grateful to God that I was in the military during the time I was in TWI...as it simply was not possible to go over the deep end. I remember being envious of those people who could go out WOW and for those people who could go into the Corps and so on. I wanted to do both so badly...but couldn't, as I was in the service. Had I been able to do so...well, I shudder at what could have/ would have happened to my life.
For me, because I was constrained with the amount of involvement I could support, leaving TWI was simply a matter of saying "this is getting too weird" and disappearing off the face of the earth (coincident with a military permanent change of station move). Losing the TWI theology and the TWI mindset was a lot more difficult and took many more years. But, ultimately, it was a matter of making a decision and following through. But I can imagine it would have been far more difficult had I been as deeply involved as I wanted to be (but was constrained from pursuing).
Those who were deeply involved and more thoroughly inculturated I realize had a far more difficult path...one that I eminently respect and sympathize with, particularly after reading many of these posts. My prayers are with those people that their minds and hearts may eventually be truly healed from the wound left by the lies of TWI.
Yeah Mark, but you know? God is so awsome. Even as messed up as those of us who committed heart and soul for decades were, who gave up our lives and dreams....It seems like the bigger the heart break, the tougher the situation....the greater the injustice suffered....God seemed to work even BIGGER to bring the deliverance and healing.
Does that make sense? I can look back and realise that it was during the very most heart breaking, soul crushing times in twi that God manifested himself in the most fantastic ways....impossible things that absolutely couldn`t be chance.
No it wasn`t pleasant, it wasn`t pretty, it takes years to straighten out your thinking processes.....but I don`t feel alone either.
In my opinion, the most important key is to realise that we were wrong pure and simple and let God start over with a clean slate. See where he can take you without the restraints of our twi aquired knowledge and arrogance.
Catagorizing and seperating issues is a huge job..its demands alot of heart and brain power, dwelling ad dwelling on things that seem to have worn out a path of no answers and then they come...very slowly at times.
the honest part is the toughest for me, it is so easy to say" well twi, my job, my kids, my health did this that is why Im here! My life has to be this way because... (put hands on hips and shout if you must)
then be honest.
it is your life, and life is one HUGE responsibility for each person. It is so much safer and easier to allow another to say how it all should be and then claim either ignorance or just blame them. no responsibility involved in that thinking and no "authentic self".
the problem with having a self is guess what? we fail , we make mistake , we really can hurt another. and to be you one has to say I did that and that is who i was , or am and I want change.
then the change comes and so many struggles come along with it, a divorce maybe, but now you wont have the added income of the spouse or have to pay out child supportetc.. a change of career may mean leaving you friends and family and moving to an area more suitable to what you want to do, very scary and lonely .
The group may have some problems but hey they do not effect my life my being IM happy and every day it chews at you anyways, till you can cmpletely deny truth as you really see it and hear it. self erodes to group think.
it isnt twi as stated in hcw stated, we can compromise who we are in everything we do, and some families really teach a person only one path in life and to deviate would mean total withdrawl and alienation. So the consept of free thinking is extremely if not impossibe for them . they will seek a cult or a lfie that is dictated to them and consider it a good happy life. that is ok.
I think one thing that helps is finding others who think like you do. who get you. the real you. then empower your mind to believe in the responsibility that you are indeed accoutable to God to live YOUR life for him, not your boss or spouse or child or church, your friends.
and if you do not believe in God realize it is your responsibility for your own self then to be happy, to engage in the active pursue of peace and happiness in life.
to own your life is to own your life.
and life isnt pretty sometimes, it takes great courage (the lord will tell ya that) to say oh my I disagree, im not ok with that ,when those your with do not understand or get it.
your alone with God and the lord then, which bottom line is what it is all about.
it aint easy trusting a invisble source of strength andpower. But I believe Jesus is truly my best friend, and knows me best adn I trust HIM . He has not left me yet.
so the change can happen I must trust Him , the call is one of peace and happiness. Im crying now , others will be with ya in love with the Lord, on the path to changing your life new faces, new time new everything sometimes and they are knowing the Lord is bringing you in with them for a season to love once again.
We encourage and help and serve one another as we grow to know and trust the LORD.
it is all about changing and going where He Leads trusting He knows best. and it aint easy cause it is done with people , those behind and those going forward.
who I am is His. He is my friend I go where He leads because that is just where I can be best , in every part of who I am, and no denial with that guy. none at all. He is all abut truth and freedom and life.
...I sympathize with so many of you who completely lost yourselves to the demon ruling TWI. It makes me eternally grateful to God that I was in the military during the time I was in TWI...as it simply was not possible to go over the deep end. I remember being envious of those people who could go out WOW and for those people who could go into the Corps and so on. I wanted to do both so badly...but couldn't, as I was in the service. Had I been able to do so...well, I shudder at what could have/ would have happened to my life.
For me, because I was constrained with the amount of involvement I could support, leaving TWI was simply a matter of saying "this is getting too weird" and disappearing off the face of the earth (coincident with a military permanent change of station move). Losing the TWI theology and the TWI mindset was a lot more difficult and took many more years. But, ultimately, it was a matter of making a decision and following through. But I can imagine it would have been far more difficult had I been as deeply involved as I wanted to be (but was constrained from pursuing).
Those who were deeply involved and more thoroughly inculturated I realize had a far more difficult path...one that I eminently respect and sympathize with, particularly after reading many of these posts. My prayers are with those people that their minds and hearts may eventually be truly healed from the wound left by the lies of TWI.
Belle, I hope this isn't too off topic - but MarkO – I have never been in the military but after leaving TWI I've often wondered about the military experience in comparison to heavy involvement with a cult – of which I'm very experienced. Leaving out the bizarre and religious aspects and considering just the tough, regimented, disciplinary, and at times demeaning, often military-like process of Corps training [and for that matter TWI as a whole]- I sometimes wonder about the effect that has on the person.
I don't mean to insult you or any military personnel by even suggesting the military is in the same class [or even the same universe] as a cult. I pray for the military everyday and think there's a world of difference between the real military and dah crazy little "lawd's army" headquartered in New Knoxville. I know there's more to it [the real military that is] than the stereotype of "a lean mean fighting machine."
I just know from a civilian's viewpoint – any current or former military folks I've worked around for the most part hit me as strong, capable, grounded people that don't seem to be as challenged with self-esteem/self-worth/decision-making issues like Belle talked about in her first post. I would be interested to hear from you and any other folks – thoughts on similarities AND differences of indoctrination, training, operation etc. between TWI and the military – in regards to our topic on the authentic self.
Belle, I hope this isn't too off topic - but MarkO – I have never been in the military but after leaving TWI I've often wondered about the military experience in comparison to heavy involvement with a cult – of which I'm very experienced. Leaving out the bizarre and religious aspects and considering just the tough, regimented, disciplinary, and at times demeaning, often military-like process of Corps training [and for that matter TWI as a whole]- I sometimes wonder about the effect that has on the person.
Good question. And not one for which I can adequately respond. I think one valid similarity is the team approach taken by both. Military members are always part of a team, which is part of a larger team, and so on. Members normally go through very arduous tasks...and an implicit objective of accomplishing those tasks is to build a sense of team identity. Cohesiveness is stressed in this environment, even through the use of uniforms and grooming standards.
However, the individual is not really destroyed in the process, as what happens in a cult. Although the initial indoctrination into the military is said to "tear down the recruit and then recreate him in the likeness of...", that is somewhat over-exaggerated (at least in my mind). The individual's basic personality remains; individuality remains; what is torn down are the undisciplined parts of the mind that, in most cases, would cause the recruit to fail in his subsequent skill training. I think, particularly from what I hear from many who were more deeply involved than I was, that this cohesiveness is achieved in a cult through the destruction of the individual's self-esteem (that self-esteem not being re-built through the training process).
I don't mean to insult you or any military personnel by even suggesting the military is in the same class [or even the same universe]as a cult. I pray for the military everyday and think there's a world of difference between the real military and dah crazy little "lawd's army" headquartered in New Knoxville. I know there's more to it [the real military that is] than the stereotype of "a lean mean fighting machine."
No offense taken. That was the paradigm that VeePee (as well as other cult leaders) chose to use (of course, it's somewhat ironic that he loved the "Marine" vision for the WC, but he (to the best of my understanding) never spent five minutes wearing a uniform (USMC or otherwise). In fact, does my memory serve correctly that he was in his undergraduate divinity school during WWII? (A deferrment?)
I just know from a civilian's viewpoint – any current or former military folks I've worked around for the most part hit me as strong, capable, grounded people that don't seem to be as challenged with self-esteem/self-worth/decision-making issues like Belle talked about in her first post. I would be interested to hear from you and any other folks – thoughts on similarities AND differences of indoctrination, training, operation etc. between TWI and the military – in regards to our topic on the authentic self.
Geee...shucks...
Seriously, that may well be true (I really don't know one way or the other). Perhaps, even had I been involved more deeply than I was, I would not have fallen victim to those same influences. All I know is that I wasn't, I didn't, and I won't ever have to find out whatif...and I thank my God for that!
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Belle
Excellent answers, y’all. Thank you very much!
Sprawled Out, thank you – yes, I’m afraid I’m much more in touch with my “authentic self” than some folks would like.
I’ve certainly lost the quiet, submissive aspects of my self that were prominent during my TWIt days. :D Someone in the process of leaving TWI sent me a PM and this seemed like a good topic for the person to see different thoughts on.
I think that getting involved in community activities, clubs and non-religious organizations we never had time for are great. It also helps us to rediscover the hobbies and interests we had before we weren’t allowed to have them.
I was so socially retarded, so getting involved with dog training and AKC shows really helped me get over that and introduced me to something I’d never known much about, much less been all that interested in. From there it was a spring board into other interests.
Rascal, I LOVE those two lines! Yes, there is a distinct advantage for those who got involved later in life. I was in my mid-20’s and already on my way to accomplishing the life goals I had – silly me thought TWI would help me get there quicker, safer, easier, etc….
As for the clean slate – awesome analogy! When we leave, we really are a clean slate in so many ways, aren’t we? We now have the power to become who WE want us to become and not who someone else wants us to be.
(((((Penguin))))) - Sooooo good to see you!!
WG, LOL! The number one reason you’ll never see me try out for any kind of reality show, much as I might like to.
LAE, yeah, I have thought about adopting. I’ve actually gathered quite a bit of information on it thinking that if I’m not married by the time I’m 40, I might do like a friend of mine and adopt a child for my 40th birthday present. But, I’m just not too sure about being a single mom. Doesn’t seem fair or right to intentionally bring a kid into a situation like that.
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Belle
Ham, I liked the Universalist church I attended, too. It was a big deal for me the day I could listen to someone talk about the Bible without cringing, critiquing or condescending to them.
Dooj – I think that was a wake up call for me, too. The day I woke up and realized, “This is MY house – MY dog – MY car – MY stuff and I’m not doing too bad, thank you very much!” I realized I am actually doing a pretty darn good job of taking care of myself and I’m not nearly as stoopid, incompetent and “unprotected” as TWI would have me believe. THAT gave me the confidence to keep on keeping on.
Notta – I think a divorce group would have been ideal for me at the time. Wish I had thought of that. Leaving TWI is like a divorce – it was an all consuming part of our life, and, just like with a divorce, you lose your friends because they pick the former spouse over you.
Another Spot – I hear ya! WayDale and GSpot were life-savers for me!
David -
:eusa_clap: 
Glad – I’m so glad all of the people I tried to get involved were too smart to fall for the b.s. I was feeding them. The only guilt I had about it was not being able to get my ex to see what I saw.
Mo – AMEN! I never realized how secretive we really were during our TWIt days – least, I was. If I knew someone was likely to argue or debate me, I’d avoid them. I certainly never shared some of the more bizarre things we did – like taking inventory of our whole house – stockpiling potable water tablets – etc…. It’s so much nicer to just “let it all hang out” – love me or leave me, but at least you know who “me” is for real. :D
Java Jane – I hear ya! It’s like having the rug pulled out from under your feet when you never even saw the munchkin standing there threatening to pull it.
Somewhere during my own recovery process I decided that I was going to quit trying to please others or to live up to THEIR expectations of me. I decided that I was going to be, do, say, feel the way I wanted and if they didn’t like who I was then so be it. I mean, I put up with the quirks of other people and dearly love friends I disagree with or who sometimes disappoint me, but I still love ‘em, ya know? Why on earth would I think that friends and loved ones wouldn’t feel the same about me? Why on earth would I want to try to hold onto and appease people who wouldn’t??
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T-Bone
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waterbuffalo
How pawky, Geo!
Good one.
The Highway, I loved what you said and saved it in a Word doc. You are a cool dudette.
Everyone else, thanks as well. Great insights.
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GrouchoMarxJr
...And isn't that why we love to come here?...Like returning to the scene of a crime...reaffirming to ourselves that we weren't the only ones that were fu *ked over...but more than that...celebrating our liberation from "waybrain" and connecting to each other through the common experience of surviving twi...and being able to relate to each other from those common experiences...
The "Spot" is where we spend time sorting things out, telling our stories...each of us...and then we see the tapestry form a picture. There is no "party line" here...there are differing opinions and folks are encouraged to think for themselves. Many of us have concluded that twi wasn't much more than a "baptized Amway"...Be that as it may, we have all learned and continue to learn...because..."Learning is an exciting adventure"!!!
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doojable
Did you really say that??
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waterbuffalo
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excathedra
first i gotta find her ;)
to get back to her
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Ham
I think..
you have to see it in somebody else.
What is "real"..?
In a strange kinda way.. I don't think a person can see it in themselves. If you really saw it in yourself, you'd worship the dang mirror for the rest of your days.
But if you think you want to know, to find.. think twice..
you may get your prayer answered. You may get more than you asked for.
:)
But a person would not regret it.
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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Ham
Sorry, can't help but being at least a little poetic..
:)
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Ham
Friend, she's always been there..
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Ham
:)
Groucho.. I wish so. But apparently a party line is part of the agreement.. at least I think.
Dang wars.. wish I didn't have to pick sides one way or the other..
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frank123lol
Ah Ham,You mean the Christ in you?I was kinda looking at the me thing,
somewhere is self,the group thing of twi was scary,lose self,become one big
likeminded monster,easily controlled,we were.
Somewhere in all this shi@ is the self awareness the purpose.
When you take away the amway of twi it falls apart,Yeah Gods word is there but where
were we? Certainaly expendable to the machine,as they were the all.
Dont worry what to think we wll tell you what to think Pink Floyd.
The utopia actually distopia can never be acheived,The destruction of self by catcup
should be brought again.
Oh well deep thoughts! I laugh harder ,I live freeer.Yeah greasespoters,we had to deprogram ourselves,when we picked up the peices ofI.We began to build the authentic self.
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JavaJane
You rock, frank!! That was awesome!
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TheHighWay
Here ya' go:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...on-of-self.html
Catcup's "Destruction of Self" ... excellent!!!
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Belle
It IS excellent, thanks, The Highway!
Your earlier post coulda been written by me verabtim (except I don't have kids). It, too, was an awesome post!
I was trying to respond to everyone, but ran out of time. Hopefully, I'll still be able to get back to pick up where I left off.
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HCW
What I did was - - I asked.
I asked myself, just who in the world AM I? I had found that I had lost (even though I was SURE that I hadn't) parts of myself. Not only to TWI but to different roles that I found myself attempting to live up to.
What I found along the way, as many folks have mentioned - its a journey, a process; is that losing yourself is a normal part of life that just about everybody goes through. Psychologists warn of the dangers of living life according to our roles. TWI just exacerbated (and continues to exacerbate) that normal - albeit it negative part of life's process.
Millions of people live the insanity of going through life role-playing as opposed to actually living.
When I learned that, that fact alone freed me from the vast majority of TWI's BS. What was freeing to me was realizing that influence" from TWI is in reality smoke & mirrors. TWI is, in reality just like the Wizard of OZ.... a BIG ugly loud head projected larger than life onto the "screen" we see, but the actual wizard behind the screen is a little scared wimpy dude - with NO real power over us.
What I asked myself was simply EVERYTHING.
I questioned everything I do and everything that I think I think - literally everything.
It took and is taking some time. I say taking, because life itself is a continual process of growth.
To get free from TWI was, and really is NOT a major focus in our quest for freedom from the cult. Reason being is that lauding TWI to the top of "things I need to be free from" actually is succumbing to what they want, which is to influence folk to believe that TWI is the biggest thing in their life. They hide under the auspicies that since they "represent God to you" that the relationship w/ TWI by inference, should be the biggest thing to you... - - NOT !!!!
Being truly free is to be free from EVERYTHING that enslaves you. TWI is only ONE thing to be free from - -no matter how deeply "in" a person was - - no matter how "bad" you were - - so what?
Its the influence we afflict ourselves with - playing the role that we need to be free from.
Actually we don't even need to free ourselves from TWI or anything else. What we need to do is to become committed to whatever we think we want to be. Day by day moment by moment. Become committed to the reality that is you, the way you see yourself, or the way you want to see yourself.
That requires, in my opinion a great deal of honesty.
Again, the key for me was asking.
What do I like to do?
What have I always wanted to do with my life? Is this that I'm doing, that? Do I like it? What can I do to change it if I don't?
Just ask yourself questions and answer them as you see fit. A huge discovery for me was which things I believe because I believe them and which things I believe(d) because VPW (in context) or or someone else believes them.
I had lost parts of myself to my role as husband, father, artist, etc. TWI just exacerbated the losing myself thing.
Throughout the process I've held onto SOME of what I learned from VPW and TWI as well as every other teaching influence in my life. After settling on things I believe and things I now know I like, etc. That protects me from other things that might seek to control me like TWI does.
Also, I've found great value in the rough experiences I've had, not only in TWI but in every other bad experience in my life.
By placing TWI in its proper place, I've learned just how much influence they actually had over me, & how much they try to have in general AND just how much influence I GAVE them.
Its been a great journey. At this point I wouldn't trade my TWI experience for a life w/out it because overcoming the negative parts of it have built some good things into me that I'm not sure I'd have learned without it. One should recognize thier roles in life but mot be so bound by them as to do crazy things, JUST because "I'm a (fill in the blank) and that's what we do. Being free from a "role" allows a person to say, for example, "I'm a police officer, but I recognize the fact that although you broke the law by not stopping at a stop sign, I won't give you a ticket under these unique circumstances."
We all know how Wayhead is was totally reactionary, group think mindset. Being free of roles allows a person to actually grow and even change how they live at different points. We change to being proactive and realize that we now know, better than most folk, just what living some alternative reality life-style is like. We can now recognize the signs & symptoms and techniques that people use for control and avoid those pitfalls.
My input into this subject is don't focus about being reactive in life according to your roles. Don't focus too much on becoming free from TWI.... You will become free from TWI along the way as you just become proactively committed to living as you actually are. Just ASK yourself, in a very detailed manner who you are and live according to your answers. If you don't like yourself change yourself in the specific area to something you DO like.
Soon you'll really love yourself!
Bottom line is that God is still on the throne. True freedom in life comes from one's relationship w/Him.
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markomalley
Belle,
I am very glad that you started this thread...as I am very thankful for all threads like this one.
I sympathize with so many of you who completely lost yourselves to the demon ruling TWI. It makes me eternally grateful to God that I was in the military during the time I was in TWI...as it simply was not possible to go over the deep end. I remember being envious of those people who could go out WOW and for those people who could go into the Corps and so on. I wanted to do both so badly...but couldn't, as I was in the service. Had I been able to do so...well, I shudder at what could have/ would have happened to my life.
For me, because I was constrained with the amount of involvement I could support, leaving TWI was simply a matter of saying "this is getting too weird" and disappearing off the face of the earth (coincident with a military permanent change of station move). Losing the TWI theology and the TWI mindset was a lot more difficult and took many more years. But, ultimately, it was a matter of making a decision and following through. But I can imagine it would have been far more difficult had I been as deeply involved as I wanted to be (but was constrained from pursuing).
Those who were deeply involved and more thoroughly inculturated I realize had a far more difficult path...one that I eminently respect and sympathize with, particularly after reading many of these posts. My prayers are with those people that their minds and hearts may eventually be truly healed from the wound left by the lies of TWI.
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rascal
Yeah Mark, but you know? God is so awsome. Even as messed up as those of us who committed heart and soul for decades were, who gave up our lives and dreams....It seems like the bigger the heart break, the tougher the situation....the greater the injustice suffered....God seemed to work even BIGGER to bring the deliverance and healing.
Does that make sense? I can look back and realise that it was during the very most heart breaking, soul crushing times in twi that God manifested himself in the most fantastic ways....impossible things that absolutely couldn`t be chance.
No it wasn`t pleasant, it wasn`t pretty, it takes years to straighten out your thinking processes.....but I don`t feel alone either.
In my opinion, the most important key is to realise that we were wrong pure and simple and let God start over with a clean slate. See where he can take you without the restraints of our twi aquired knowledge and arrogance.
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likeaneagle
Well said,HCW..
Catagorizing and seperating issues is a huge job..its demands alot of heart and brain power, dwelling ad dwelling on things that seem to have worn out a path of no answers and then they come...very slowly at times.
Freedom comes as restoration is made..
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pond
I liked hcw post .
the honest part is the toughest for me, it is so easy to say" well twi, my job, my kids, my health did this that is why Im here! My life has to be this way because... (put hands on hips and shout if you must)
then be honest.
it is your life, and life is one HUGE responsibility for each person. It is so much safer and easier to allow another to say how it all should be and then claim either ignorance or just blame them. no responsibility involved in that thinking and no "authentic self".
the problem with having a self is guess what? we fail , we make mistake , we really can hurt another. and to be you one has to say I did that and that is who i was , or am and I want change.
then the change comes and so many struggles come along with it, a divorce maybe, but now you wont have the added income of the spouse or have to pay out child supportetc.. a change of career may mean leaving you friends and family and moving to an area more suitable to what you want to do, very scary and lonely .
The group may have some problems but hey they do not effect my life my being IM happy and every day it chews at you anyways, till you can cmpletely deny truth as you really see it and hear it. self erodes to group think.
it isnt twi as stated in hcw stated, we can compromise who we are in everything we do, and some families really teach a person only one path in life and to deviate would mean total withdrawl and alienation. So the consept of free thinking is extremely if not impossibe for them . they will seek a cult or a lfie that is dictated to them and consider it a good happy life. that is ok.
I think one thing that helps is finding others who think like you do. who get you. the real you. then empower your mind to believe in the responsibility that you are indeed accoutable to God to live YOUR life for him, not your boss or spouse or child or church, your friends.
and if you do not believe in God realize it is your responsibility for your own self then to be happy, to engage in the active pursue of peace and happiness in life.
to own your life is to own your life.
and life isnt pretty sometimes, it takes great courage (the lord will tell ya that) to say oh my I disagree, im not ok with that ,when those your with do not understand or get it.
your alone with God and the lord then, which bottom line is what it is all about.
it aint easy trusting a invisble source of strength andpower. But I believe Jesus is truly my best friend, and knows me best adn I trust HIM . He has not left me yet.
so the change can happen I must trust Him , the call is one of peace and happiness. Im crying now , others will be with ya in love with the Lord, on the path to changing your life new faces, new time new everything sometimes and they are knowing the Lord is bringing you in with them for a season to love once again.
We encourage and help and serve one another as we grow to know and trust the LORD.
it is all about changing and going where He Leads trusting He knows best. and it aint easy cause it is done with people , those behind and those going forward.
who I am is His. He is my friend I go where He leads because that is just where I can be best , in every part of who I am, and no denial with that guy. none at all. He is all abut truth and freedom and life.
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T-Bone
Belle, I hope this isn't too off topic - but MarkO – I have never been in the military but after leaving TWI I've often wondered about the military experience in comparison to heavy involvement with a cult – of which I'm very experienced. Leaving out the bizarre and religious aspects and considering just the tough, regimented, disciplinary, and at times demeaning, often military-like process of Corps training [and for that matter TWI as a whole]- I sometimes wonder about the effect that has on the person.
I don't mean to insult you or any military personnel by even suggesting the military is in the same class [or even the same universe] as a cult. I pray for the military everyday and think there's a world of difference between the real military and dah crazy little "lawd's army" headquartered in New Knoxville. I know there's more to it [the real military that is] than the stereotype of "a lean mean fighting machine."
I just know from a civilian's viewpoint – any current or former military folks I've worked around for the most part hit me as strong, capable, grounded people that don't seem to be as challenged with self-esteem/self-worth/decision-making issues like Belle talked about in her first post. I would be interested to hear from you and any other folks – thoughts on similarities AND differences of indoctrination, training, operation etc. between TWI and the military – in regards to our topic on the authentic self.
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markomalley
Good question. And not one for which I can adequately respond. I think one valid similarity is the team approach taken by both. Military members are always part of a team, which is part of a larger team, and so on. Members normally go through very arduous tasks...and an implicit objective of accomplishing those tasks is to build a sense of team identity. Cohesiveness is stressed in this environment, even through the use of uniforms and grooming standards.
However, the individual is not really destroyed in the process, as what happens in a cult. Although the initial indoctrination into the military is said to "tear down the recruit and then recreate him in the likeness of...", that is somewhat over-exaggerated (at least in my mind). The individual's basic personality remains; individuality remains; what is torn down are the undisciplined parts of the mind that, in most cases, would cause the recruit to fail in his subsequent skill training. I think, particularly from what I hear from many who were more deeply involved than I was, that this cohesiveness is achieved in a cult through the destruction of the individual's self-esteem (that self-esteem not being re-built through the training process).
No offense taken. That was the paradigm that VeePee (as well as other cult leaders) chose to use (of course, it's somewhat ironic that he loved the "Marine" vision for the WC, but he (to the best of my understanding) never spent five minutes wearing a uniform (USMC or otherwise). In fact, does my memory serve correctly that he was in his undergraduate divinity school during WWII? (A deferrment?)
Geee...shucks...
Seriously, that may well be true (I really don't know one way or the other). Perhaps, even had I been involved more deeply than I was, I would not have fallen victim to those same influences. All I know is that I wasn't, I didn't, and I won't ever have to find out whatif...and I thank my God for that!
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T-Bone
Great stuff, MarkO - thanks!...and once again thanks to all...great thread!
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