Apparently you don't know what "free from the law" means...
It means that our spirits are already judged...
Incorruptible seed.
I will be here to remind you of that...
Saved by grace
You seem to think you can select who YOU want saved.
It doesn't work that way..
You do not set God's moral law. God in his own law of liberty has saved all who believe upon him.
All you want to do is rejudge the spirit again...
Maybe God didn't do a good enough job the first time?
Actually, I don't think you will find the notion "our spirits have been judged" in the Bible, if by that you mean that our "spirit" is what is saved, regardless of what we do in the flesh after that. The Hebrew mindset did not make such a distinction. What a whole person believes in, he will act on. Good works come from a good heart and evil works come from an evil heart (Matt. 12:35).
"Free from the Law" means that because of what Jesus did, we are not bound by the LETTER of the law, which the Pharisees and people like them used to control and manipulate, while completely missing the HEART of the Law. This does not mean we are free to do whatever we want though. We are under a higher Law now - variously called the Law of Christ, the Law of Love, or the Law of Liberty. It means that while not bound by the legalistic letter, we still are bound by the higher standard of Christ's love. Expecting people to adhere to that standard is not putting them under Law again. Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees we would not enter the Kingdom of God. Paul said we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works. It was never God's intention that we should just "get saved" (whatever that meant) and then live any way we wanted. God is interested in us developing Christlike character by the power of His spirit, and living according to a new life and a new heart, which is to be demonstrated by our works.
Actually, I don't think you will find the notion "our spirits have been judged" in the Bible, if by that you mean that our "spirit" is what is saved, regardless of what we do in the flesh after that. The Hebrew mindset did not make such a distinction. What a whole person believes in, he will act on. Good works come from a good heart and evil works come from an evil heart (Matt. 12:35).
"Free from the Law" means that because of what Jesus did, we are not bound by the LETTER of the law, which the Pharisees and people like them used to control and manipulate, while completely missing the HEART of the Law. This does not mean we are free to do whatever we want though. We are under a higher Law now - variously called the Law of Christ, the Law of Love, or the Law of Liberty. It means that while not bound by the legalistic letter, we still are bound by the higher standard of Christ's love. Expecting people to adhere to that standard is not putting them under Law again. Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees we would not enter the Kingdom of God. Paul said we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works. It was never God's intention that we should just "get saved" (whatever that meant) and then live any way we wanted. God is interested in us developing Christlike character by the power of His spirit, and living according to a new life and a new heart, which is to be demonstrated by our works.
Wow you keep it up and I will need to write an entire epistle to correct you...
Free from the law means exactly that..
Jesus did not sup with sinners because he found them acceptable to the OT law you espouse.
Your logic just twists around and comes back to "the law" as your centerpiece rather than the trust in the spirit.
Free from the law means that God is not in the OT law anymore.
So if you think you are going to get even with God by breaking the laws you are only hurting your own flesh and that of others. You will suffer in your flesh the consequences of "man's day" and human judgment.
For God is not in the law but in the law of liberty through the holy spirit.
If you are living by the law of the OT you are living by the flesh.
To walk by the law of liberty is to walk by the spirit.
Free from the law? What does this mean? That we are free from the law (but we are still judged by it?)
PURE RUBBISH!
Our salvation is complete.
Romans 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Comment:
NOTHING CAN SEPARATE US FROM THE SPIRIT... IT IS SEED AND IT IS HOLY...
Anyone who tries to tell you differently is ANTICHRIST.
Hubbard had clear connections to the occult. Even in the first publication of dianetics in "Astounding Science Fiction", Hubbard in explaining how he did his "research" into what the mind was doing, says he used "automatic writing, speaking and clairvoyance" (1) to discover what the mind's memory banks were doing. Automatic writing is an occult method of communicating with the spirit world, although psychologists consider its products to arise from subconscious thoughts of the writer. Whichever is correct, it is hardly a method used by competent scientific researchers.
Hubbard's connection to the occultist Aleister Crowley is quite clear and noteworthy. Crowley called himself the Anti-Christ, the Beast of Revelations, and 666
The goal of dianetics and Scientology is to return the Theta being to its inherent abilities (i.e. freeing it from the laws of this universe) and remove it from its need to have a body. The sole source for accomplishing this is the technology of L. Ron Hubbard, celestial mediator of the gnostic Church of Scientology.
I really don't see how you are trying to do anything really different here..
Wow you keep it up and I will need to write an entire epistle to correct you...
If it’s going to be anything like your other epistles – you ought to just stick to quoting the epistles in the Bible – at least that part of your posts would make sense…With all your talk of the “law of liberty” the theology exhibited in your posts seems quite oppressive, judgmental, restrictive, rigid, demanding, arrogant, and of all things legalistic! You can call it what you want but I gotta disagree with your re-defining of “liberty.”
If it’s going to be anything like your other epistles – you ought to just stick to quoting the epistles in the Bible – at least that part of your posts would make sense…With all your talk of the “law of liberty” the theology exhibited in your posts seems quite oppressive, judgmental, restrictive, rigid, demanding, arrogant, and of all things legalistic! You can call it what you want but I gotta disagree with your re-defining of “liberty.”
It is prophesied that those who reject Jesus Christ would reject those who walk in his stead...
How can we have the righteousness (spiritual seed) of God if we are yet to be judged?
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Comment: Is God's righteousness to be judged? And by whom?
having "seen the light".. why try to attach a certain dogma.. or religion.. or interpretation to it.. you can't really you know. It is, what it is.. people hundreds if not thousands of years ago have seen the same thing..
why try to reclaim the equilibrium you thought you had, when you once thought you had all of the answers..
...Those with ears to hear follow the beat of a different drummer.
Your God is searching for our sins and mine is searching for our blessings.
Many who think they’re on a roll have been snared by the “brilliance” of hum drum nonsense…Maybe your God and my God could get together sometime and do lunch.
I know you're set on convincing me of something, I just can't figure out exactly what that something is.
So far all I've seen is regurgitation of various bits and pieces of Way doctrine and mumbo jumbo.
You might want to rethink that offer of a new epistle( yes, I know a letter can be considered an epistle but I don't think that's the meaning you were trying to place on it.) People tend to lose interest in the projection of so called prophets whose predictions fall short. You don't need a scripture for that comment. Common sense will tell you the same thing.
In my first post on this thread, I asked,"Why MUST there be a law of liberty?"
My challenge to you is to simply explain your answer to that question in your own words, without reiterating bits and pieces of thought that have their origins in The Way.
I don't think an entire epistle will be necessary.
I will be back in the forum, I take time to incubate then I return with a vengeance. :D
receive retain release...
I have learned allot from you all though you may not seem to think so. I just need time to mull it over in my mind.
I have not given up on the law of liberty one bit.
I am just trying to figure out God's part in the law.
How could God be in the law and then not in the law and then proclaim he never changes?
Does God change or not?
I still believe God does not change but humans change and draw closer to what God is.
For we cannot perceive the law of liberty without the spirit living within. Can an animal say to themselves well because God has made me spiritually perfect I will no longer live by my instinct?
So it was not God who became more spiritual but humans who became more spiritual.
God has always been the Holy Spirit...
So the law must have been a kind of disciplinary device.
For it was not the legal system that was holy for there were many legal systems that strive for human perfection.
The law was weak in that it could not love.
So the law was weak because it was devoid of God... For God is love.
Well .. the law could love, believe it or not. The "righteous requirements" and such.. could subjectively choose to be fulfilled, or not.. look at David..
Perhaps the animal says: "God has created me spiritually, so I will live by my instinct.."
Perhaps people are no that much different..
So does the earth have a spirit?
The Bible says God formed made and created the earth also.
Isaiah 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
The woman taken in adultery, (thought to be Magdalene) when Jesus said, "he who is without sin cast the first stone", he himself was "without sin" so if the law was so "holy" why did he not stone her? Instead, he forgave her.
He did not say what she did was right he said she was forgiven. Something must still be wrong to need to be forgiven of it. But the change was that there was forgiveness in his administration. (grace by faith) That God is not behind the law so the law cannot be used to punish God.
Once the spirit came on the day of Pentecost, the forgiveness of Christs was final and complete.
We are to someday have a new body that will be fashioned after the perfect spirit that we already have.
Yet this will not be our own new body but we will be in the body of Christ.
Christ being the head of the new creature.
This new creature will bond with the old testament "bride" and the will be part of his flesh also and become one flesh.
Yet Christ is the head of the body and "bride" but God is the head of Christ. Thus as the old testament people are humbled to Christ, we the saints are humbled to Christ and Christ is ultimately humbled to God.
Thus God is the head of the entire living creature.
Once perfected, the heavens and the earth in the end will be in God's true form and image.
Well .. the law could love, believe it or not. The "righteous requirements" and such.. could subjectively choose to be fulfilled, or not.. look at David..
:)
And who decides your own "righteous requirements"? :)
I think it does. The American Indian beliefs ascribe the Grandmother to the spirit of the earth. It may be pretty subjective, but it makes sense to me.
:)
What the hell.. I've already shot any kind of reputation I possibly may have here..
:)
last couple of days.. I've had the impression of souls leaving this place, not reincarnating as what may be the usual course of nature..
Like they are leaving like there's no tomorrow..
what's going on with this planet.. I don't have a clue..
I think it's gonna be a lot smaller than what it is..
This must make some sense to someone else other than me.. either that, or I have a rather over active imagination..
*ham leaves the building, really mumbling to himself, his tin foil hat intact, but ineffectual to the forces of da debil..*
...Even the elite of the most prestigious institutions of intellectual and spiritual excellence have forgotten the law of liberty's resplendent wisdom.
The liberty bell needs desperately to be mended and it must ring again...
Please be specific.
"Even the elite…"what or who qualifies them as elite? What is the criteria? How many elite? What was the ratio of comparison between elite and average people? Did your study include every single elite person – or was it a sampling?
"…of the most prestigious institutions of intellectual and spiritual excellence…"Specificity is needed. You need to name names. What are the names of these institutions? What are the standards of excellence? Did your study include every institution with intellectual and spiritual pursuits? Please provide a list of all institutions targeted in your study.
"…have forgotten the law of liberty's resplendent wisdom."What does that mean? What is your documentation for this? What is the evidence that this has occurred? What is "the law of liberty's resplendent wisdom"?
"The liberty bell…"What are you referring to? Is this literal or figurative? What type of bell is it? A ship's bell, a clock's bell, a musical instrument?
"…needs desperately to be mended…" Other than your awkward English – what specifically needs to be mended? How bad is it in need of mending? Are we talking one big crack or a bunch of little ones? Or is the problem with missing parts, faulty parts, a flawed design, a compound problem in the bell ringing system or user error?
"…and it must ring again." Why? What will happen? Who says it must ring again? Will it be called Glockenspiel 2? And will Harry Belafonte star as the ringleader of a chime syndicate?
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Ham
Yep.. and I wouldn't suggest that either.
I've seen people live life in a Clintonesque manner, leaving one "dead body" after another.. and they don't have time to stop or to look back..
Clinton left a big enough trail that the people trying to follow it choked in the ensuing feeding frenzy..
I think a lot of this kind of stuff can be traced back to Crowley.. he claimed if you just kept on moving, things would eventually work out..
I think the restraints of law do serve a legitimate purpose.
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Mark Clarke
Actually, I don't think you will find the notion "our spirits have been judged" in the Bible, if by that you mean that our "spirit" is what is saved, regardless of what we do in the flesh after that. The Hebrew mindset did not make such a distinction. What a whole person believes in, he will act on. Good works come from a good heart and evil works come from an evil heart (Matt. 12:35).
"Free from the Law" means that because of what Jesus did, we are not bound by the LETTER of the law, which the Pharisees and people like them used to control and manipulate, while completely missing the HEART of the Law. This does not mean we are free to do whatever we want though. We are under a higher Law now - variously called the Law of Christ, the Law of Love, or the Law of Liberty. It means that while not bound by the legalistic letter, we still are bound by the higher standard of Christ's love. Expecting people to adhere to that standard is not putting them under Law again. Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeded that of the Pharisees we would not enter the Kingdom of God. Paul said we are created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works. It was never God's intention that we should just "get saved" (whatever that meant) and then live any way we wanted. God is interested in us developing Christlike character by the power of His spirit, and living according to a new life and a new heart, which is to be demonstrated by our works.
For more detail, see here.
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DrWearWord
Wow you keep it up and I will need to write an entire epistle to correct you...
Free from the law means exactly that..
Jesus did not sup with sinners because he found them acceptable to the OT law you espouse.
Your logic just twists around and comes back to "the law" as your centerpiece rather than the trust in the spirit.
Free from the law means that God is not in the OT law anymore.
So if you think you are going to get even with God by breaking the laws you are only hurting your own flesh and that of others. You will suffer in your flesh the consequences of "man's day" and human judgment.
For God is not in the law but in the law of liberty through the holy spirit.
If you are living by the law of the OT you are living by the flesh.
To walk by the law of liberty is to walk by the spirit.
Free from the law? What does this mean? That we are free from the law (but we are still judged by it?)
PURE RUBBISH!
Our salvation is complete.
Romans 8:39
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Comment:
NOTHING CAN SEPARATE US FROM THE SPIRIT... IT IS SEED AND IT IS HOLY...
Anyone who tries to tell you differently is ANTICHRIST.
We have to confess the spirit from sin...
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TheEvan
Mark, that was quite clear. In no way did you "espouse" the law, as WearWord accused. I'd counsel you to save your breath.
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Oakspear
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Ham
I see little difference from this, and from the doctrines of Crowley's successor.
from http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/.../achubbard.html
I really don't see how you are trying to do anything really different here..
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T-Bone
If it’s going to be anything like your other epistles – you ought to just stick to quoting the epistles in the Bible – at least that part of your posts would make sense…With all your talk of the “law of liberty” the theology exhibited in your posts seems quite oppressive, judgmental, restrictive, rigid, demanding, arrogant, and of all things legalistic! You can call it what you want but I gotta disagree with your re-defining of “liberty.”
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DrWearWord
It is prophesied that those who reject Jesus Christ would reject those who walk in his stead...
How can we have the righteousness (spiritual seed) of God if we are yet to be judged?
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Comment: Is God's righteousness to be judged? And by whom?
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T-Bone
Yes, it does seem like your goal has been to fulfill that prophesy.
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DrWearWord
It is only fulfilled in your ears... :)
Those with ears to hear follow the beat of a different drummer.
Your God is searching for our sins and mine is searching for our blessings.
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Ham
Mr. WW.. let me be so bold as to say..
having "seen the light".. why try to attach a certain dogma.. or religion.. or interpretation to it.. you can't really you know. It is, what it is.. people hundreds if not thousands of years ago have seen the same thing..
why try to reclaim the equilibrium you thought you had, when you once thought you had all of the answers..
the path calls.. why not keep moving..
:)
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T-Bone
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waysider
Dr. WearWord
I know you're set on convincing me of something, I just can't figure out exactly what that something is.
So far all I've seen is regurgitation of various bits and pieces of Way doctrine and mumbo jumbo.
You might want to rethink that offer of a new epistle( yes, I know a letter can be considered an epistle but I don't think that's the meaning you were trying to place on it.) People tend to lose interest in the projection of so called prophets whose predictions fall short. You don't need a scripture for that comment. Common sense will tell you the same thing.
In my first post on this thread, I asked,"Why MUST there be a law of liberty?"
My challenge to you is to simply explain your answer to that question in your own words, without reiterating bits and pieces of thought that have their origins in The Way.
I don't think an entire epistle will be necessary.
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Ham
That's at least part of my point. You've been mucking about in kabballah, some other stuff.. it's obvious you've seen "something".
While I wouldn't attempt to invalidate it, I would only say that you can't take a piece of the Divine.. and put it in a jar..
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DrWearWord
I will be back in the forum, I take time to incubate then I return with a vengeance. :D
receive retain release...
I have learned allot from you all though you may not seem to think so. I just need time to mull it over in my mind.
I have not given up on the law of liberty one bit.
I am just trying to figure out God's part in the law.
How could God be in the law and then not in the law and then proclaim he never changes?
Does God change or not?
I still believe God does not change but humans change and draw closer to what God is.
For we cannot perceive the law of liberty without the spirit living within. Can an animal say to themselves well because God has made me spiritually perfect I will no longer live by my instinct?
So it was not God who became more spiritual but humans who became more spiritual.
God has always been the Holy Spirit...
So the law must have been a kind of disciplinary device.
For it was not the legal system that was holy for there were many legal systems that strive for human perfection.
The law was weak in that it could not love.
So the law was weak because it was devoid of God... For God is love.
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Ham
Well .. the law could love, believe it or not. The "righteous requirements" and such.. could subjectively choose to be fulfilled, or not.. look at David..
:)
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Ham
Perhaps the animal says: "God has created me spiritually, so I will live by my instinct.."
Perhaps people are no that much different..
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waysider
" I have not given up on the Law of Liberty one bit."---Dr. W W
That's a good thing.
I did not want you to give up on ANYTHING.
I only wanted you to explain how you feel about it in your own words without a lot of jargon.
Thank you for doing that in your last post.
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DrWearWord
So does the earth have a spirit?
The Bible says God formed made and created the earth also.
Isaiah 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
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DrWearWord
The woman taken in adultery, (thought to be Magdalene) when Jesus said, "he who is without sin cast the first stone", he himself was "without sin" so if the law was so "holy" why did he not stone her? Instead, he forgave her.
He did not say what she did was right he said she was forgiven. Something must still be wrong to need to be forgiven of it. But the change was that there was forgiveness in his administration. (grace by faith) That God is not behind the law so the law cannot be used to punish God.
Once the spirit came on the day of Pentecost, the forgiveness of Christs was final and complete.
We are to someday have a new body that will be fashioned after the perfect spirit that we already have.
Yet this will not be our own new body but we will be in the body of Christ.
Christ being the head of the new creature.
This new creature will bond with the old testament "bride" and the will be part of his flesh also and become one flesh.
Yet Christ is the head of the body and "bride" but God is the head of Christ. Thus as the old testament people are humbled to Christ, we the saints are humbled to Christ and Christ is ultimately humbled to God.
Thus God is the head of the entire living creature.
Once perfected, the heavens and the earth in the end will be in God's true form and image.
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DrWearWord
And who decides your own "righteous requirements"? :)
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DrWearWord
I believe the world is in peril.
Not because of the trinity...
Over half of the world does not even believe in the trinity.
Muslims certainly do not believe in the trinity either neither do the Jews nor many other faiths.
Yet it is the law of liberty that is grave danger of being forgotten.
Brothers are fighting brothers because this law is in neither of their minds.
Even the elite of the most prestigious institutions of intellectual and spiritual excellence have forgotten the law of liberty's resplendent wisdom.
The liberty bell needs desperately to be mended and it must ring again...
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Ham
I think it does. The American Indian beliefs ascribe the Grandmother to the spirit of the earth. It may be pretty subjective, but it makes sense to me.
:)
What the hell.. I've already shot any kind of reputation I possibly may have here..
:)
last couple of days.. I've had the impression of souls leaving this place, not reincarnating as what may be the usual course of nature..
Like they are leaving like there's no tomorrow..
what's going on with this planet.. I don't have a clue..
I think it's gonna be a lot smaller than what it is..
This must make some sense to someone else other than me.. either that, or I have a rather over active imagination..
*ham leaves the building, really mumbling to himself, his tin foil hat intact, but ineffectual to the forces of da debil..*
sheesh.. this must make some sense for somebody..
at least I HAVE an imagination.
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T-Bone
Please be specific.
"Even the elite…" what or who qualifies them as elite? What is the criteria? How many elite? What was the ratio of comparison between elite and average people? Did your study include every single elite person – or was it a sampling?
"…of the most prestigious institutions of intellectual and spiritual excellence…" Specificity is needed. You need to name names. What are the names of these institutions? What are the standards of excellence? Did your study include every institution with intellectual and spiritual pursuits? Please provide a list of all institutions targeted in your study.
"…have forgotten the law of liberty's resplendent wisdom." What does that mean? What is your documentation for this? What is the evidence that this has occurred? What is "the law of liberty's resplendent wisdom"?
"The liberty bell…" What are you referring to? Is this literal or figurative? What type of bell is it? A ship's bell, a clock's bell, a musical instrument?
"…needs desperately to be mended…" Other than your awkward English – what specifically needs to be mended? How bad is it in need of mending? Are we talking one big crack or a bunch of little ones? Or is the problem with missing parts, faulty parts, a flawed design, a compound problem in the bell ringing system or user error?
"…and it must ring again." Why? What will happen? Who says it must ring again? Will it be called Glockenspiel 2? And will Harry Belafonte star as the ringleader of a chime syndicate?
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