the national debate in a nutshell

[satori001]

Somebody's right and somebody's wrong, yet the verbal skirmish escalates over the rules of skirmishing and the bloody war becomes a triviality in a semantic food fight.

Rosie is in quotes, Elizabeth is not. Transcription was more difficult than necessary because Elizabeth's perky cleavage kept getting in the way of my keyboard Accuracy is approximate. I didn't start out with the idea of transcribing this but it helped me see where it all got sidetracked and why the war, and Rosie's specific comments about it, got left behind.

My analysis comes down to this. Rosie made an earlier statement and plenty of "pundints" thought they could read between the lines. Elizabeth naively and inadvertently called Rosie's bluff. Rosie then must use all of her wits to change the subject.

I don't watch this show, but the few times I've seen clips, it seemed that Elizabeth didn't have much backbone. Whatever her mistakes in this exchange (Donald Trump?), she showed some character.

Here's the 6-minute dialogue, more or less. The first ~12 lines are less exact.

1. Elizabeth is discussing the wisdom of announcing a timetable for withdrawal, alerting our "enemies"

2. "Enemies in Iraq?"

3. Al Qaida

4. "Did Iraq attack us?"

5. No, but if you tell your enemy what you're doing (football analogy)...

6. "If your enemy are innocent civilians, I don't want to play that football game"

7. The enemy is not innocent civilians, and I didn't say they were.

8. Behar: "Please, let's have a conversation."

9. "You know why I don't want to do this Joy? Here's why I don't want to do it. Here's how it get's 'spun' in the media: 'Big fat lesbian loudmouth Rosie attacks innocent, pure Christian Elizabeth, and I'm not doing it"

10. I haven't heard that line.

11. "You should watch some of the shows that you don't watch."

12. I watched ALL of those shows yesterday

Behar: "I'm okay arguing with Elizabeth."

13. "Every time you've been hurt, did I reach out to you?"

14. Behar: "There's a war going on out there, it's not personal."

15. ?: "I like dancing with the stars!"

16. I don't understand why it's my fault that people spin phrases or words that you put out there, suggesting that I gave you an opportunity 2 days ago to clarify the statement that got you in trouble

17. "That got me in trouble - as a friend you gave me the opportunity, that's very 'sweet' of you - what I was asking of you, who actually knows me, do YOU believe I think our troops are terrorists?

18. I don't think that you -

19. "Do you believe that, yes or no?"

20. Excuse me, let me speak.

21. "You're gonna double-speak, it's just a 'yes' or a 'no.'"

22. I am not a double-speaker, and I don't put suggestions out there that lead people to think things and then not answer my own question.

23. "I had a question to you, and you didn't answer it."

24. I don't believe that you believe that troops are "terrorists," I have said that before, but when you say something like "650,000" Iraqi's are dead," we invaded them.

25. "It's true."

26. Let me finish. Who are the terrorists?

27. "You don't like the facts."

28. I am all about facts, you know that. You tell me not to use facts because you want me to go only on emotion. Guess what? I like facts.

29. "But you hide behind the ones you like. You cherry-pick them."

30. I don't hide. I don't cherry-pick.

31. Behar: Did I or did I not give this panel a list, of facts?

32. ?: And you know what? Oh my gosh, we're gonna be right back with Alicia Silverstone.

33. "Oh no we're not. No because we have a lot more time."

34. Behar: Are we talkin' about the - ? If you wanna change the subject, that's one thing.

35. I was just opening - people were criticizing you for saying that because it SUGGESTED something, okay? So I said, Look take your opportunity now, you have a show right now, tell the world what you really think.

36. "I didn't want to take my opportunity to tell the world, I wanted to know what people like you (but you are my friend, since September) - to you believe, that I think, that our troops are terrorists? And you would not even look me in the face Elizabeth

37. What are you talking about.

38. "...and say, 'No Rosie,' [but instead you said] I can understand how people might have thought that. Why don't you take this opportunity?' - like I'm sick.

39. Because you are an adult, and I am certainly not going to be the person (for you) to explain your thoughts, they're your thoughts! Defend your own insinuations!

40. "I defend my thoughts."

41. Defend your own thoughts!

42. "Right, but if every time I defend them, Elizabeth, it's "poor little Elizabeth" that I'm picking on.

43. You know what? "Poor little Elizabeth" is not poor, little Elizabeth, okay?... [inaudible].

44. "That's right, that's why I'm not gonna fight with you any more because it's absurd. So for 3 weeks, you can say all the Republican crap you want. I'm not gonna do it.

45. It must be easier to fight someone like Donald Trump, right, because he's obnoxious.

46. "I've never fought him. He fought me. I told a fact about him. He didn't like the fact, and he went crazy.

47. Behar: "I'm in the middle of this conversation."

48. I gave you an opportunity to clarify.

49. "You don't give me anything. You don't have to give me, I asked you a question."

50. Let me ask YOU a question.

51. "You didn't even answer it."

52. You didn't answer your own question.

53. "Oh Elizabeth, i don't want - you know what?

54. Answer your own question.

55. "You really don't understand what I'm saying?"

56. I understand what you're saying.

57. I think it's sad, I think it's sad because I don't understand how there can be such hurt feelings when all I did was say, "Look, why don't you tell everybody what you said?" I did that as a friend.

58. "All you did is not defend me. I asked you if you believed that I thought the were -"

59. Answer your own question. I don't believe that your suggestion was right.

60. "Elizabeth, every day, since September, I have told you that I support the troops."

61. I have done the same for you.

62. "I asked you if you believed what the Republican pundints [sic] were saying.

63. Did I say yes?

64. You said NOTHING, and that's cowardly.

65. No, no, no. No, no, no.

66. "Nothing."

67. That is not... do not, do not call me a coward

68. [pointing at heart]"hurtful, hurtful"

69. ...because, number one, I sit here every single day

70. "So do I"

71. ...open my heart and tell people exactly what I believe.

70. "So do I, Elizabeth."

71. Do NOT call me a coward Rosie.

72. "It was cowardly yesterday."

73. It was not cowardly, it was honest.

74. Behar: "Is there no commercial in this show?"

75. What is "cowardly," asking you a question? I'll tell you what's cowardly.

76. Behar: "What, are we on PBS?"

77. No, asking a... "rhetorical" question that you never answer yourself, that is cowardly.

78. Behar: "Who's directing the show? Let's go to commercial!"

79. I need a drink of water.

80. Behar: "Baby. Baby?"

81. The baby's fine.

82. "Here's the thing, Sherry's..." [ends]

[nandon]

wonder if they had sex after the show

[Shellon]

http://www.rosie.com/blog/2007/05/26/no-ja-hero

Check out this badboy blog Rosie did.

yikes

[excathedra]

thanks i had heard about this but wanted to see it

please tell me you didn't transcribe that from memory

[satori001]

No, I channeled it.