My wife knew what size tires went to our then car and I didn't; this was just plain wrong to our twig cordo. The picture by your screen name looks like my cat.
I know that (as a woman) I was told before I married that the women were too emotional to make a rational decision. That men were more logical and so should always be listened to.
I was told to not obey the husband was to be stiff necked, that it would allow the devil in to our lives. I was told that God would protect me if I obeyed because I was doing his will...if I did not obey even if I was right, God would not honor that because I was being rebellious.
No I am not a man, but I know that these were some of the things that we heard as a couple when being counseled before marriage
God`s honest truth though...my spouse was completely unaware of what I had been taught at all of those years of womens advances. He had no idea why I never stood up to him....always secretly thought I was some kind of wimp....
He was shocked and appalled to find out what had kept me in silent misery for so many many years.
I simply was taught that it was what God required.
I remember when a couple of us guys arrived at the gulag as young bachelors it seemed like every young woman was hiding behind every corner ready to be proposed to. They'd start drilling every guy with questions, "What are goals?" etc. They were aggressive "women of God." We found out the reason was that there were more women than men going Corps, and Corps could only marry Corps. A lot of the women also had been sat down by Rev. Dipheads and instructed to choose, "Corps or marriage?", in other words "God or marriage, you may not have both." So any young guy who came to the gulag was "fresh meat".
You'd think us guys would be happy with all these eager girls running around. Nope, there was twist. These girls were taught that their man should walk as Jesus Christ, (by of course the married women at HQ) So, one minute you've got women all excited to see you, but if they find out you can't walk on water or raise the dead, well, your a weakling, not good enough for young mighty women of Gawd.
Thus began confusion. Now the guys needed to rise up to the women's standards. So instead of challenging each other to see how far you could throw a football, you were excessively studying da werd, ready to grab a bible and "break it off" at a moments notice.
At one point I was with my future wife, and happened to be walking behind her in the dining room (I wasn't there a month, still figuring things out). Big mistake. She was pulled aside and corrected for not walking behind me. Huh? She was showing me around! So suddenly I find out dating at HQ is a covert operation. Leadership will start jabbing at your "weakness" if they see any hint of
So I start seeking advise from married men. You know, HOW do I lead? What am I supposidly supposed to do? They tell me they can't give any real advise on it because I'm not married. Okay, that's annoying. And this attitude of no training or good advice continues later when we announce we're engaged. She was to remain independent and not to follow me, but not to lead me either (she was supposed to walk behind me, I told her to walk beside me).
Then we get married and things get out of control (with twi leadership). I've had no real training or good advice on how to be a husband, but reemed for letting my wife rule somehow.
The tire issue was one point of contention, but the real dividing line was our son. He has a learning disorder (autism) and shortly before the relationship was severed, our TC and BC called a meeting at the BC's house and grilled us about his behavior (he was three at the time). They questioned whether he helped around the house, picked up his room, took care of his clean clothes, etc., etc.. When I said he was very good at those kind of tasks (which he is, better than his sister, who usually has to be reminded), the TC smiled indulgently and said that it was only natural for a mother to lie in those circumstances. Soon afterward we received a letter saying that since our son had a behavior problem that was not being corrected (probably due to a devil spirit) and had no physical condition that accounted for his behavior he (and I) were no longer welcome at fellowship, but John and our daughter were. Shortly after that I gave birth to our third child who was diagnosed with several rare physical (genetic) disorders. It seemed probable to the doctors that these genetic disorders also affected our other children. I sent a copy of the diagnosis to the TC and BC. They didn't care. After that we began to fellowship elsewhere, instead of pursuing a divorce, which is probably what the TC and BC really wanted. That was the culmination of a period of years during which the TC complained to John about what a terrible wife and mother I was behind my back, and exhorted him to be more of a 'REAL MAN' and stand up to me. Anyone who knows John at all should know what BS that is. Some people here on greasespot seem to think that we have the opposite problem and I don't stand up to John enough. Neither position is correct; we have a very good relationship which both of us are satisfied with.
The tire issue was one point of contention, but the real dividing line was our son. He has a learning disorder (autism) and shortly before the relationship was severed, our TC and BC called a meeting at the BC's house and grilled us about his behavior (he was three at the time). They questioned whether he helped around the house, picked up his room, took care of his clean clothes, etc., etc.. When I said he was very good at those kind of tasks (which he is, better than his sister, who usually has to be reminded), the TC smiled indulgently and said that it was only natural for a mother to lie in those circumstances. Soon afterward we received a letter saying that since our son had a behavior problem that was not being corrected (probably due to a devil spirit) and had no physical condition that accounted for his behavior he (and I) were no longer welcome at fellowship, but John and our daughter were. Shortly after that I gave birth to our third child who was diagnosed with several rare physical (genetic) disorders. It seemed probable to the doctors that these genetic disorders also affected our other children. I sent a copy of the diagnosis to the TC and BC. They didn't care. After that we began to fellowship elsewhere, instead of pursuing a divorce, which is probably what the TC and BC really wanted. That was the culmination of a period of years during which the TC complained to John about what a terrible wife and mother I was behind my back, and exhorted him to be more of a 'REAL MAN' and stand up to me. Anyone who knows John at all should know what BS that is. Some people here on greasespot seem to think that we have the opposite problem and I don't stand up to John enough. Neither position is correct; we have a very good relationship which both of us are satisfied with.
May the intestines of the TC and BC be filled with worms.
At one point I was with my future wife, and happened to be walking behind her in the dining room (I wasn't there a month, still figuring things out). Big mistake. She was pulled aside and corrected for not walking behind me. Huh? She was showing me around! So suddenly I find out dating at HQ is a covert operation. Leadership will start jabbing at your "weakness" if they see any hint of
Oh man... this brings up memories... not only did you have to hide any sign of affection for fear of being picked apart, but if you were not at the very end of your last year you were NOT to get attached to any one person!! The men were supposed to escort lots of different girls to the Sunday Service, etc. If they realized two folks had become attached to each other, they would immediately ship one to another campus, or haul them in for a reaming. Their excuse: you might get more focused on your sweetie and less focused on the corps training.
Most ridiculous thing I ever heard of!!! I felt so bad for folks I knew who endured this kind of blatant manipulation.
I remember the "no attachments" thing - spying on perfectly normal friendly relationships and making them to be more than they were. Or breaking them up.
Also while I was in rez, from time to time the married men (only) would be called aside by the BC and given little talks. I believe one of these was an exhortation to make sure that they had sexual relations with their wives at least once a week (I think this was seen as their minimum duty (!) to their wives). Considering how hard we got pushed in rez (this is the regular Corps, not FC) it wouldn't surprise me if both parties were far too tired to bother much more often than that anyway.
Any married men out there, did you get this sort of in-rez talk? Did they include stuff about keeping your wife submissive, quiet, and you "showing leadership"?
And of course there was comment during Corps nights about families who had had difficulties, which were never discussed kindly (they shouldn't have been discussed at all).
THW: Yes, exactly
Bolshevik: difficult for you to know what to do. But what scriptures (if any) did they hit you with to show you how you should behave? (It sure wasn't "love your wife as yourself")
Bolshevik: difficult for you to know what to do. But what scriptures (if any) did they hit you with to show you how you should behave? (It sure wasn't "love your wife as yourself")
Scriptures? None. What policy, doctrine or practice in twi is based on scripture? Maybe something from I,II and III Wierwillinians.
(They made a pretence of scripture with women, to beat them up.)
Did they give you examples of strong Biblical men (positively) rather than weak Biblical men (Samson, when he fell for Delilah)?
(Thinking about it, what example of a strong Biblical man is there? It's about how such men handled problems, and if they were so strong, they wouldn't have problems, would they? They would have handled their wives properly in the first place!)
May the intestines of the TC and BC be filled with worms.
Thanks, Bolshevik & Mr. Hamm.
I don't know about worms and fleas, but I heard that the TC had been sent to prison (insider trading and embezzlement). I'm sorry about the mammoth illogic with you and your wife. It's just amazing what some people began to do.
Marriage standards were learnt mainly through twi culture. I think the only scripture they really hounded on was in Ephesians were it say wives subject yourselves. They emphasized that this was written because its natural for the men to let the women take charge and walk all over the man and blah blah blah.
Other than that, peer pressure ruled. Leadership taught corps, corps wives taught the young women. I believe I saw the young women encouraging the young men to walk on them. It was "cool." Then of course the young men and women find out what really happened and it's too late. Welcome to Hell.
(That is twi. We learned to bait and set snares for each other, only to fall in ourselves.)
My husband doesn't seem to have that gene that makes him want to be accepted in a group... He missed that section of the genetic code - so he never gave a crap what anyone thought ever about his relationship with me. I think more than anything he was just sooper-dooper proud of himself that he caught me and liked showing me off to all the leaders who had told him to back off of pursuing me and focus on spritiual matters.
Me, on the other hand, was a different story - I was always trying to get him to do things in the pre-approved twi method, which he didn't give a rat's butt about anyway, but did some of it just to keep people off my back.
:wub: :wub: :wub:
Welcome to Hell.
(That is twi. We learned to bait and set snares for each other, only to fall in ourselves.)
How very very true, Mr. B. Sorta like the blind leading the blind falling into a ditch...
Yeah...my ex wife expected me to be a combination of VP Wierwille, LCM and Jesus Christ...when they fed her with all that twi bull sh *t, she licked the spoon clean...
...and there I was, trying to find my arse with both hands...
Life at Emporia turned out to be like a Freddy Kruger movie for me...It simply wasn't in my nature to bark orders and make demands of my wife. Needless to say, the charade ended during our interim year when she packed her bags and left while I was at work...The ironic part was that her folks sent her to the deprogrammers and she got out before I did...
I wish I knew then what I know now...I would have split lcm's lip with my knuckles.
Yeah...my ex wife expected me to be a combination of VP Wierwille, LCM and Jesus Christ...when they fed her with all that twi bull sh *t, she licked the spoon clean...
...and there I was, trying to find my arse with both hands...
Life at Emporia turned out to be like a Freddy Kruger movie for me...It simply wasn't in my nature to bark orders and make demands of my wife. Needless to say, the charade ended during our interim year when she packed her bags and left while I was at work...The ironic part was that her folks sent her to the deprogrammers and she got out before I did...
I wish I knew then what I know now...I would have split lcm's lip with my knuckles.
Yes it really is a shame how many marriages were ruined by the same organisation that claimed to promote healthy marriages. John has always said that when the minister at our wedding said the words 'what God has joined together, let no man put asunder' and 'I now declare you husband and wife' something spiritual happened and he has held firm to that through many temptations to do otherwise. I regret the pain that many of you have gone through. I would they were even cut off that troubled you.
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johniam
My wife knew what size tires went to our then car and I didn't; this was just plain wrong to our twig cordo. The picture by your screen name looks like my cat.
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rascal
I know that (as a woman) I was told before I married that the women were too emotional to make a rational decision. That men were more logical and so should always be listened to.
I was told to not obey the husband was to be stiff necked, that it would allow the devil in to our lives. I was told that God would protect me if I obeyed because I was doing his will...if I did not obey even if I was right, God would not honor that because I was being rebellious.
No I am not a man, but I know that these were some of the things that we heard as a couple when being counseled before marriage
God`s honest truth though...my spouse was completely unaware of what I had been taught at all of those years of womens advances. He had no idea why I never stood up to him....always secretly thought I was some kind of wimp....
He was shocked and appalled to find out what had kept me in silent misery for so many many years.
I simply was taught that it was what God required.
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Bolshevik
I remember when a couple of us guys arrived at the gulag as young bachelors it seemed like every young woman was hiding behind every corner ready to be proposed to. They'd start drilling every guy with questions, "What are goals?" etc. They were aggressive "women of God." We found out the reason was that there were more women than men going Corps, and Corps could only marry Corps. A lot of the women also had been sat down by Rev. Dipheads and instructed to choose, "Corps or marriage?", in other words "God or marriage, you may not have both." So any young guy who came to the gulag was "fresh meat".
You'd think us guys would be happy with all these eager girls running around. Nope, there was twist. These girls were taught that their man should walk as Jesus Christ, (by of course the married women at HQ) So, one minute you've got women all excited to see you, but if they find out you can't walk on water or raise the dead, well, your a weakling, not good enough for young mighty women of Gawd.
Thus began confusion. Now the guys needed to rise up to the women's standards. So instead of challenging each other to see how far you could throw a football, you were excessively studying da werd, ready to grab a bible and "break it off" at a moments notice.
At one point I was with my future wife, and happened to be walking behind her in the dining room (I wasn't there a month, still figuring things out). Big mistake. She was pulled aside and corrected for not walking behind me. Huh? She was showing me around! So suddenly I find out dating at HQ is a covert operation. Leadership will start jabbing at your "weakness" if they see any hint of
So I start seeking advise from married men. You know, HOW do I lead? What am I supposidly supposed to do? They tell me they can't give any real advise on it because I'm not married. Okay, that's annoying. And this attitude of no training or good advice continues later when we announce we're engaged. She was to remain independent and not to follow me, but not to lead me either (she was supposed to walk behind me, I told her to walk beside me).
Then we get married and things get out of control (with twi leadership). I've had no real training or good advice on how to be a husband, but reemed for letting my wife rule somehow.
F U Rivenbark
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Jeaniam
The tire issue was one point of contention, but the real dividing line was our son. He has a learning disorder (autism) and shortly before the relationship was severed, our TC and BC called a meeting at the BC's house and grilled us about his behavior (he was three at the time). They questioned whether he helped around the house, picked up his room, took care of his clean clothes, etc., etc.. When I said he was very good at those kind of tasks (which he is, better than his sister, who usually has to be reminded), the TC smiled indulgently and said that it was only natural for a mother to lie in those circumstances. Soon afterward we received a letter saying that since our son had a behavior problem that was not being corrected (probably due to a devil spirit) and had no physical condition that accounted for his behavior he (and I) were no longer welcome at fellowship, but John and our daughter were. Shortly after that I gave birth to our third child who was diagnosed with several rare physical (genetic) disorders. It seemed probable to the doctors that these genetic disorders also affected our other children. I sent a copy of the diagnosis to the TC and BC. They didn't care. After that we began to fellowship elsewhere, instead of pursuing a divorce, which is probably what the TC and BC really wanted. That was the culmination of a period of years during which the TC complained to John about what a terrible wife and mother I was behind my back, and exhorted him to be more of a 'REAL MAN' and stand up to me. Anyone who knows John at all should know what BS that is. Some people here on greasespot seem to think that we have the opposite problem and I don't stand up to John enough. Neither position is correct; we have a very good relationship which both of us are satisfied with.
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Bolshevik
May the intestines of the TC and BC be filled with worms.
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Ham
and their armpits with the fleas of a thousand camels..
:)
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TheHighWay
Oh man... this brings up memories... not only did you have to hide any sign of affection for fear of being picked apart, but if you were not at the very end of your last year you were NOT to get attached to any one person!! The men were supposed to escort lots of different girls to the Sunday Service, etc. If they realized two folks had become attached to each other, they would immediately ship one to another campus, or haul them in for a reaming. Their excuse: you might get more focused on your sweetie and less focused on the corps training.
Most ridiculous thing I ever heard of!!! I felt so bad for folks I knew who endured this kind of blatant manipulation.
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Ham
How did they get to know so much?
I think it was the damned "christian" family and sex class, or the newer equivalent.
Ole vic exhorted "men, TAKE CHARGE!!!" right from the get go of "dating". Show women "their place"..
Basically gave the guys a green light to work em over like there's no tomorrow..
frigging idiots..
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Twinky
I remember the "no attachments" thing - spying on perfectly normal friendly relationships and making them to be more than they were. Or breaking them up.
Also while I was in rez, from time to time the married men (only) would be called aside by the BC and given little talks. I believe one of these was an exhortation to make sure that they had sexual relations with their wives at least once a week (I think this was seen as their minimum duty (!) to their wives). Considering how hard we got pushed in rez (this is the regular Corps, not FC) it wouldn't surprise me if both parties were far too tired to bother much more often than that anyway.
Any married men out there, did you get this sort of in-rez talk? Did they include stuff about keeping your wife submissive, quiet, and you "showing leadership"?
And of course there was comment during Corps nights about families who had had difficulties, which were never discussed kindly (they shouldn't have been discussed at all).
THW: Yes, exactly
Bolshevik: difficult for you to know what to do. But what scriptures (if any) did they hit you with to show you how you should behave? (It sure wasn't "love your wife as yourself")
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Bolshevik
Scriptures? None. What policy, doctrine or practice in twi is based on scripture? Maybe something from I,II and III Wierwillinians.
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Twinky
Bolshevik, ROF, LOL!
(They made a pretence of scripture with women, to beat them up.)
Did they give you examples of strong Biblical men (positively) rather than weak Biblical men (Samson, when he fell for Delilah)?
(Thinking about it, what example of a strong Biblical man is there? It's about how such men handled problems, and if they were so strong, they wouldn't have problems, would they? They would have handled their wives properly in the first place!)
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Jeaniam
Thanks, Bolshevik & Mr. Hamm.
I don't know about worms and fleas, but I heard that the TC had been sent to prison (insider trading and embezzlement). I'm sorry about the mammoth illogic with you and your wife. It's just amazing what some people began to do.
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Bolshevik
Marriage standards were learnt mainly through twi culture. I think the only scripture they really hounded on was in Ephesians were it say wives subject yourselves. They emphasized that this was written because its natural for the men to let the women take charge and walk all over the man and blah blah blah.
Other than that, peer pressure ruled. Leadership taught corps, corps wives taught the young women. I believe I saw the young women encouraging the young men to walk on them. It was "cool." Then of course the young men and women find out what really happened and it's too late. Welcome to Hell.
(That is twi. We learned to bait and set snares for each other, only to fall in ourselves.)
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JavaJane
My husband doesn't seem to have that gene that makes him want to be accepted in a group... He missed that section of the genetic code - so he never gave a crap what anyone thought ever about his relationship with me. I think more than anything he was just sooper-dooper proud of himself that he caught me and liked showing me off to all the leaders who had told him to back off of pursuing me and focus on spritiual matters.
Me, on the other hand, was a different story - I was always trying to get him to do things in the pre-approved twi method, which he didn't give a rat's butt about anyway, but did some of it just to keep people off my back.
:wub: :wub: :wub:
How very very true, Mr. B. Sorta like the blind leading the blind falling into a ditch...
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yeah...my ex wife expected me to be a combination of VP Wierwille, LCM and Jesus Christ...when they fed her with all that twi bull sh *t, she licked the spoon clean...
...and there I was, trying to find my arse with both hands...
Life at Emporia turned out to be like a Freddy Kruger movie for me...It simply wasn't in my nature to bark orders and make demands of my wife. Needless to say, the charade ended during our interim year when she packed her bags and left while I was at work...The ironic part was that her folks sent her to the deprogrammers and she got out before I did...
I wish I knew then what I know now...I would have split lcm's lip with my knuckles.
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Jeaniam
Yes it really is a shame how many marriages were ruined by the same organisation that claimed to promote healthy marriages. John has always said that when the minister at our wedding said the words 'what God has joined together, let no man put asunder' and 'I now declare you husband and wife' something spiritual happened and he has held firm to that through many temptations to do otherwise. I regret the pain that many of you have gone through. I would they were even cut off that troubled you.
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socks
Hard work - it's a tough job, but someone's got to do it.
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GrouchoMarxJr
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doojable
That's what we said in the woman's thread!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Very good...You're learning
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