"holy thing"

[Larry N Moore]

WordWolf, perhaps (just perhaps) if you get off your high-horse and answer the questions I put to you before we went down this path our discussion might be more fruitful.

Dude -- I cited a source (one of which mentioned Rev. James Freeman, a compiler of Bible customs) on the subject whereas all I've seen you do is only cite yourself. I suggest you follow your own advice.

[cman]

documentation...lol...texts...too funny...

thinking-very few want to.........

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical...s/16/chap4.html

http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2006/08/20/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desposyni

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/ebionites.html

http://www.africanhiphop.com/phpbb/viewtop...fc1a97252681ac9

http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Jesus_Christ

http://actualfreedom.com.au/library/links/16-saviours-1.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=XDxGcRirr...tpLCnOqiig3zAh4

http://www.opensourcetheology.net/node/872

[ChattyKathy]

cman, for the newcomer to this thread please provide a reason for your links for my benefit if you will please.

[cman]

Kathy, not all that has been discussed on this thread is about the title as you know.

I was challenged to present facts and documentation from the scriptures. There are none. The documentation is within the Spirit that is in Man. No one can tap it's resources as deep as possible because the resource is unlimited.

The answers do not lie in books and texts and websites, hints and possible direction that's all, but in the minds of honest, thinking people who know that there is an unlimited commodity of information within ourselves.

So rather then relying on ancient scrolls that are dead why not give the living a shot at giving some clues that will unlock another's unlimited resource.

How Jesus was born is not the issue here imo.

That which is Holy IS.

[cman]

http://www.askrealjesus.com/D_NEWVISITOR/howsitehelpyou.html

One of many websites that encourage us to look in different corners of our minds.

There are many.

How is it that the pure see God?

How is it that we are to meet Christ in the air?

Is it not all around us and in us?

Why is it that we rely on anothers word rather then our own?

A question that will challenge the few that dare to ask it.

Is there really a New Heavens and Earth Now that can be seen?

Does our Father bait and trick us?

Would he not as a Father GIVE to those that ASK?

A STONE of stumbling and a ROCK of offense lies in the scriptures....

As well as the TRUTH...but Truth comes FIRST then we see it in the scriptures.

And in the writings of many that write today.

[cman]

http://home.cinci.rr.com/mannix4/images/Mo...ould%20Rain.mp3

[ChattyKathy]

http://www.askrealjesus.com/D_NEWVISITOR/howsitehelpyou.html

One of many websites that encourage us to look in different corners of our minds.

There are many.

How is it that the pure see God? (anyone can see God around us if they believe He is there)

How is it that we are to meet Christ in the air? (I believe that to be limited to his coming again and the how isn't important I don't believe)

Is it not all around us and in us? (yes, God is all around us and in us)

Why is it that we rely on anothers word rather then our own? (I rely on what the Bible says first and if others line up within that frame work they are given ear as well)

A question that will challenge the few that dare to ask it.

Is there really a New Heavens and Earth Now that can be seen? (no, not now but later is my understanding)

Does our Father bait and trick us? (never, nada, in no way)

Would he not as a Father GIVE to those that ASK? (if they believe in whom they are asking, but if they are asking then that seems to indicate they do, he is the searcher of hearts and knows that I don't of another person)

A STONE of stumbling and a ROCK of offense lies in the scriptures....

As well as the TRUTH...but Truth comes FIRST then we see it in the scriptures.

And in the writings of many that write today.

[cman]

aaahhh yes..his coming....another perspective..and a big one...

does he not come when our eyes are opened

does he come for all at once or every person in order

at his timing, it will happen for sure, for some it already has and continues

as a thief in the night, and then the trumpets will sound soon

there are only 7 tones, with different pitches in each

is the ear open to pick up it's sound................the many

7 tones, 7 colors with many hues, 7 angels ready to open up

his coming..if God is 'in the air' he is already here

his coming will not be noticed by those that he is not coming to

and the dead understanding will be raised to life in wisdom and temperance..

[ChattyKathy]

I've wondered what it will be like for those who do not believe. How will this earth seem for them then. I'm thankful I'll never have to experience it. It makes my insides shudder for those left behind.

[cman]

Noone will be left behind Kathy, I know it's a common christian belief that some will not be saved and other stuff like that. It's simply not true. The teachings of Jesus and many others support that all will be saved. It's all in the perspective that what is said is seen in a different and new light rather then trying to literally obscure the truth, which no books can contain.

[ChattyKathy]

I have problems believing that since the Word says one will be left while another will be taken. Also why would God take someone that denies His existence. All men have the shot at accepting Him but not all men will believe and certainly not all men are His children.

[cman]

The problems will be answered and solved Kathy.

You will see it for yourself. That's why i don't need to convince anyone.

But I will speak as I believe I need to...another story...

Love

[ChattyKathy]

If what you believe contradicts what I see in the Word clearly stated with no room for either your and my PI then you and I can believe all we want to but if it does not line up with His truth it's simply that. Our beliefs.

Nothing personal cman, just the way it is in my world. I have a little bit of knowledge about that dude up there and have been through the fire of twi's explanations and came out to find light. I'm not easily pulled away from His statutes.

[Jeaniam]

http://www.askrealjesus.com/D_NEWVISITOR/howsitehelpyou.html

A STONE of stumbling and a ROCK of offense lies in the scriptures....

As well as the TRUTH...but Truth comes FIRST then we see it in the scriptures.

And in the writings of many that write today.

No, the scriptures are truth then we use the scriptures to discern whether or not what other people say is truth or not. Hebrews 4:12--'For the Word of God is quick (living, not a dead scroll), and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.'

[Jeaniam]

aaahhh yes..his coming....another perspective..and a big one...

does he not come when our eyes are opened

does he come for all at once or every person in order

at his timing, it will happen for sure, for some it already has and continues

as a thief in the night, and then the trumpets will sound soon

there are only 7 tones, with different pitches in each

is the ear open to pick up it's sound................the many

7 tones, 7 colors with many hues, 7 angels ready to open up

his coming..if God is 'in the air' he is already here

his coming will not be noticed by those that he is not coming to

and the dead understanding will be raised to life in wisdom and temperance..

What the heck did you just say? It sounds like a flashback from my dope smoking days.

[Larry N Moore]

It sounds like a flashback from my dope smoking days.

[cman]

yeah well, if you don't get it you don't get it

go back to tossing verses at each other

still nothing solved

where do you think the word of god came from?

people speaking

and they still do, the word is still being spoken and written

[Larry N Moore]

yeah well, if you don't get it you don't get it

That's true enuf but, don't you want us to "get it"?

go back to tossing verses at each other

still nothing solved

Well, "tossing verses" at others has solved a lot for a lot of people. If it wasn't for someone tossing verses to me I don't know if I would have been saved.

where do you think the word of god came from?

From God.

people speaking and they still do, the word is still being spoken and written

So you don't think God can speak through people? If not, then why should I believe God speaks through you?

Edited June 3, 2007 by Larry N Moore

[cman]

Yes, Larry, I do believe God speaks with people and by way of people.

You misunderstand my post. And the entire point of my last post.

And I never asked anyone to believe that God speaks through me.

Where did you get that idea from?

Why should you believe anything?

Edited June 3, 2007 by cman

[WordWolf]

WordWolf, perhaps (just perhaps) if you get off your high-horse and answer the questions I put to you before we went down this path our discussion might be more fruitful.

Perhaps (just perhaps) your questions got either lost in the shuffle or forgotten as the other

matters were addressed. If so, a recap would not go amiss. It's what I'd do for you.

Instead, you elected to suppose I'm on a high-horse.

Which is more likely to get us somewhere?

Dude -- I cited a source (one of which mentioned Rev. James Freeman, a compiler of Bible customs) on the subject whereas all I've seen you do is only cite yourself. I suggest you follow your own advice.

I quoted the King James Version and the New American Standard, and cited them correctly

when I did so. I have not CHOSEN to quote anyone else, nor am I COMPELLED to do so.

If I should choose to do so, I will cite them properly.

(I mentioned FF Bruce's book and an episode of Gilligan's Island.

If you feel it's necessary, I can cite the page# where Bruce explains "boustrophedon"

and find the episode name and number I mentioned, if you ask. Fair is fair.)

[WordWolf]

yeah well, if you don't get it you don't get it

None of us see it the way you do, and when asked to explain it, you get antagonistic.

So, we don't get it, we're not going to get it, and you certainly aren't inspiring us TO

get it.

go back to tossing verses at each other

still nothing solved

Actually, we've gotten some places, even with the cheap shots in-between.

I expect we'll get some more places.

With a standard of comparison (we're agreeing on using the Bible in this discussion)

we CAN get someplace. With you not agreeing, we (us and you) CAN'T.

So, feel free to leave us alone and let us get where we are going.

We'll get there eventually, lumps and all.

where do you think the word of god came from?

people speaking

and they still do, the word is still being spoken and written

If you're equating your posts with Scripture, very few of us will be quick to get on

your bandwagon. but hey, it's YOUR bandwagon, and you can play whatever music you

want on it...

[cman]

You are not getting it either WordWolf.

Where did I equate what I say with scripture?

You and Larry are both jumping on my case for no reason.

Just to show off or some bs like that.

There is more to learning then 'tossing verses at each other'.

Your damn straight.

Did either of you two even look and read the links I posted?

And I ain't too excited about helping anyone get it that ....es on me like this.

Edited June 3, 2007 by cman

[cman]

And I'll toss this verse in for all of you.

John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

There is a place for scripture. It's not 1st place for me anymore!

[cman]

And exactly where do you think I was antagonistic?

Annoyed, yes but not antagonistic.

[Larry N Moore]

You misunderstand my post. And the entire point of my last post.

Of course I did. That was the point of me asking if you wanted us to "get it". I can't imagine you would think that what you say is not important to us and therefore would want to make every effort to expound on your meaning if we didn't "get it".

And I never asked anyone to believe that God speaks through me. Where did you get that idea from?

Well, I don't think that's what I was saying. I'll have to double-check what I said and try to remember what I was thinking when I said it.

Why should you believe anything?

It's human nature to believe things. I suppose we're all a little cautious about what we believe. As I implied above -- I think you believe that what you say is true or else why would you say them. Therefore I want to be able to understand what you say because if what you say is true then I would want to believe those things.

My apology to you if I came across as "jumping" on you. It's not my intention and if I took a little more time, than what I did, before responding to you I might have been able to see how it would be how you could perceive it as such.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Larry N Moore