IT WAS THE FEAR......IN THE HEART.....OF THAT MOTHER."
I would say her FEAR killed a whole lot more than just her little boy...
... Can you say-in good conscience-that you are ready to expose a new group of people to such a destructive, error-filled doctrine?
There is the answer to what killed more than just that little boy. If there is ever a rich truth, a blessing to God's people, the most valued things God intends for his people in His Word, then one can always count on the devil (the bible says it is the devil who is the author or death - not fear; although that is one of his tactics) moving in on that territory and mischaracterizing it, twisting it, distorting it, finding those who would abuse in until that jewel of truth is lost.
The best things from God to His people, and the way the devil robs from God's people is to get some nut to move in on that territory and exploit it out of context, twist it from the center of truth, and turn people off by it. That which has been rich for God's people has always been twisted and abused by the simple minded and the devious minded so it is almost a lost truth of scripture even to those who live God's way.
All the promises of God - all His laws and His principles, are text in God's Word. The law of scriptural exegesis is: Text without context is error. God does not make His promises, His laws and His principles in a vacuum. The only people who can claim those promises are those who give hilariously. If you are one of those people, then you can leave all the rest (the nut cases) behind and talk about your blessing.
The reason some people don't have God's unmerited favor abounding toward them is because they have not learned how to become a hilarious giver. FEAR certainly does that - and that is what I believe happened to that woman and her boy in that PFAL story. The only place (and there is no other place) in the Word of God where it talks about God abounding toward you so that you have all sufficiency in all things is in 2 Corinthians 9:8. That verse is the result of those who have applied the previous verses, the verses that pertaining to hilarious giving. Now the simple minded and devous minded typically think of hilarious giving only in terms of $$$, but I am not talking about $$$. That's right. You don't need $$$ to be a hilarious giver. Even the historic Christian Church has FEAR dealing with this subject, and it is the FEAR of being characterized with all the nuts.
Jesus Christ commended the widow above all, and she only had 2 mites and she gave them both there in Mark 12:42. She gave it all. Most of the nut cases out there use this verse of scripture to extract more $$$ from you, as the only reason they give is due to need. But the verses in 2 Corinthians that deal with hilarious giving tells us we don't give grudgingly (that's from grief) nor out of neccesity (that's out of need). Jesus didn't commend the woman because of the amount of $ she gave. Jesus was sitting over against the treasury, as the previous verse says, and he beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and it says many that were rich cast in much. That right. Jesus saw everything that was going on and he didn't commend those who had the big $$$ - those who were rich and who cast much into the treasury. The only one Jesus commended was the woman who threw in 2 mites. Unfortunately that is not how the Christian church operates or commends people today.
The principle is, she gave it all. But what about the case of the widow who had nothing but 1 meal left? She only gave 1/3 of it to the man of God. What's the end of the story in the Word of God in that case? Did she end up poorer or richer because she only gave 1/3 of her meal instead of the entire amount? That is why I am not suggesting people should throw in everything that they have and that everybody has to give everything that they have to their church - just because the church has all these needs to be fulfilled. What I am saying is - be a hilarious giver - even with very little - and God is able to make all grace abound toward you.
So where does that leave most of the beggars of the Church world today then? The Word of God says you're not to give from grief; because your emotions have been dug by tearjerking testimonies from evangelists who could mop floors without a waterbucket - by their instant ability to turn it on. It's that motivation out of neccessity because of a need. The only reason many do give is because of a need; that is, we need this building, we need this extension. We need to get these bibles out, etc., etc., etc. or whatever the need happens to be. So what's left then if we can't raise $$$ with tears or a need - just what's left?
The only thing left is the Holy Spirit working in you, to reproduce His nature which gives without reason. That's idealisitc. That's right, and the only problem is God sees it so seldom. The bible doesn't say God loves only those who don't have any fear at all. It doesn't say he only loves those who are tounge talkers or those who keep on breathing for His namesake - those who want to put on a show. Nope, the only thing God loves is a hilarious giver.
There are wonderful things that happen to those who live and give God's way. That's why many times we have to rescue the "baby from the bathwater" those who are living in FEAR. It's fear that keeps them from becoming a hilarious giver and fear that keeps you from becoming one - fear of lack due to need. People try all the time to claim God's promises without hilarious giving so the result is they can only act out of fear! Some people will stay confused all their life about it and will continue to wonder why they can't get any correction or any results from their giving. Are you still confused? Then I suggest you find some little "2 mite" promise you can act upon to get God's spirit working in you and cultivate it. When you feel the urge to give, then give hilariously about it. All of a sudden your darkness, God promises, will become light. It is the hilarious giver that gets the light and finds God's promises.
Re:<B><I><font color=maroon>"..do you have refreshments at break time?"</font></I></B>
Maybe some Kool-aid? 'Ya know.. I always LIVED for those break times though about all we ever got was weak coffee and carrot and celery sticks. But we could smell the coffee brewing about 30 minutes before break. No half and half for it though... got coffee creamer. And ranch dressing for carrots and celery. That was probably a Grace Bliss thingee.
<center>sudo</center>
Not in any class where I was in charge, buddy!! Best coffee around - strong stuff - with half and half and maybe some of those frilly creamers... and finger sandwiches, or homemade cookies, or cinnamon rolls... MMMMmmmmMMMMmmmm....
I ain't called "Java" Jane for nothin'
I made sure that coffee was darn strong for those of us on the crew, 'cause Lord knows we were WIPED OUT and falling asleep in the back row most nights.
The best things from God to His people, and the way the devil robs from God's people is to get some nut to move in on that territory and exploit it out of context, twist it from the center of truth, and turn people off by it. That which has been rich for God's people has always been twisted and abused by the simple minded and the devious minded so it is almost a lost truth of scripture even to those who live God's way.
All the promises of God - all His laws and His principles, are text in God's Word. The law of scriptural exegesis is: Text without context is error. God does not make His promises, His laws and His principles in a vacuum. The only people who can claim those promises are those who give hilariously. If you are one of those people, then you can leave all the rest (the nut cases) behind and talk about your blessing.
The reason some people don't have God's unmerited favor abounding toward them is because they have not learned how to become a hilarious giver. FEAR certainly does that - and that is what I believe happened to that woman and her boy in that PFAL story. The only place (and there is no other place) in the Word of God where it talks about God abounding toward you so that you have all sufficiency in all things is in 2 Corinthians 9:8. That verse is the result of those who have applied the previous verses, the verses that pertaining to hilarious giving. Now the simple minded and devous minded typically think of hilarious giving only in terms of $$$, but I am not talking about $$$. That's right. You don't need $$$ to be a hilarious giver. Even the historic Christian Church has FEAR dealing with this subject, and it is the FEAR of being characterized with all the nuts.
Jesus Christ commended the widow above all, and she only had 2 mites and she gave them both there in Mark 12:42. She gave it all. Most of the nut cases out there use this verse of scripture to extract more $$$ from you, as the only reason they give is due to need. But the verses in 2 Corinthians that deal with hilarious giving tells us we don't give grudgingly (that's from grief) nor out of neccesity (that's out of need). Jesus didn't commend the woman because of the amount of $ she gave. Jesus was sitting over against the treasury, as the previous verse says, and he beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and it says many that were rich cast in much. That right. Jesus saw everything that was going on and he didn't commend those who had the big $$$ - those who were rich and who cast much into the treasury. The only one Jesus commended was the woman who threw in 2 mites. Unfortunately that is not how the Christian church operates or commends people today.
The principle is, she gave it all. But what about the case of the widow who had nothing but 1 meal left? She only gave 1/3 of it to the man of God. What's the end of the story in the Word of God in that case? Did she end up poorer or richer because she only gave 1/3 of her meal instead of the entire amount? That is why I am not suggesting people should throw in everything that they have and that everybody has to give everything that they have to their church - just because the church has all these needs to be fulfilled. What I am saying is - be a hilarious giver - even with very little - and God is able to make all grace abound toward you.
So where does that leave most of the beggars of the Church world today then? The Word of God says you're not to give from grief; because your emotions have been dug by tearjerking testimonies from evangelists who could mop floors without a waterbucket - by their instant ability to turn it on. It's that motivation out of neccessity because of a need. The only reason many do give is because of a need; that is, we need this building, we need this extension. We need to get these bibles out, etc., etc., etc. or whatever the need happens to be. So what's left then if we can't raise $$$ with tears or a need - just what's left?
The only thing left is the Holy Spirit working in you, to reproduce His nature which gives without reason. That's idealisitc. That's right, and the only problem is God sees it so seldom. The bible doesn't say God loves only those who don't have any fear at all. It doesn't say he only loves those who are tounge talkers or those who keep on breathing for His namesake - those who want to put on a show. Nope, the only thing God loves is a hilarious giver.
There are wonderful things that happen to those who live and give God's way. That's why many times we have to rescue the "baby from the bathwater" those who are living in FEAR. It's fear that keeps them from becoming a hilarious giver and fear that keeps you from becoming one - fear of lack due to need. People try all the time to claim God's promises without hilarious giving so the result is they can only act out of fear! Some people will stay confused all their life about it and will continue to wonder why they can't get any correction or any results from their giving. Are you still confused? Then I suggest you find some little "2 mite" promise you can act upon to get God's spirit working in you and cultivate it. When you feel the urge to give, then give hilariously about it. All of a sudden your darkness, God promises, will become light. It is the hilarious giver that gets the light and finds God's promises.
I agree with you sssooooooooooo much, always have. I love to give and I teach my kids that to, they have seen miracles in this single moms life from given, also I was raised in a strick Church of God and I only learned of Gods punishment if you did wrong. only from the PFAL class did I learn that God is a Good God and will answer our prayers and forgive us. And I will keep your post. I think it deserves to be read again. Thank you.
...All the promises of God - all His laws and His principles, are text in God's Word. The law of scriptural exegesis is: Text without context is error. God does not make His promises, His laws and His principles in a vacuum. The only people who can claim those promises are those who give hilariously. If you are one of those people, then you can leave all the rest (the nut cases) behind and talk about your blessing...
It sounds like you’re describing trading – not giving. It reminds me of TWI’s mentality of giving to get something back. That was typical of their opportunist mindset – talking about supposed laws and principles like they cracked the access codes to prosperity, health, happiness and good fortune. So much of TWI’s pushing these imaginary laws and principles winds up manipulating followers into supporting their agenda all the while leaving followers with false expectations – thinking God owes them something.
It sounds like you’re describing trading – not giving. It reminds me of TWI’s mentality of giving to get something back. ....
Trading? There might be something to that, but being a trader myself (a stock trader) I don't always get back what I put into a trade. Sometimes I get back more and sometimes I get less than what I expected. That is how trading goes. The truth is: we are all investors - we invest in what is important to us. We all end up trading something of value for something else of value (for example: if you are an employee then you trade your time and your talent for a paycheck) and there is something about professional investing that gives one even greater insight on acessing those "codes to prosperity, health, happiness and good fortune" as you so eloquently put it.
But when you study hilarious giving from the Word of Gid, it is always in the context of sharing, not necessarily giving or trading. Trading is an act, but sharing is an investment. That's the reason why many people love to give but hate to share, as sharing goes beyond just the physical act of trading or giving. The word in the Greek is the word koinonia - it is translated not only as fellowship (as in a fully sharing fellowship) but it is also translated to distribute, to be a partaker, to make a contribution.
That word - koinonia deals not only with fellowship but we also see this word used in the context in the Word of God in relation to hilarious giving. Here's a good example, actually probably the best example: John 3:16 - it's a very well known verse of scripture. It says: For God so loved the world that He gave ... etc. Now just what was the reason for God giving? Was it because God needed health, happiness and good fortune etc. back in return? Was that why God gave? No, God gave because God needed, wanted, and desired fellowship - and that is a full sharing fellowship, and that "koinonia" is also with us and with one another. That is why this word, koinonia also appears in 1 John 1:3,6 and 7. Take a look at those verses sometime. Those are the verses that deal with fellowship and that type of giving and that type of fellowship are all intrinsically tied and woven together throughout the Word of God.
That's why if one breaks this principle from God's Word, one could give until their blue in the face and it would be the reason they don't see diddly squat in return. The problem isn't always an issue over what one gives or in what one receives or what one doesn't receive. Many times it is a "fellowship" issue - and it is a koinonia fellowship issue at that. Certainly there is much more to expound in this regard, but this just might get one started back on the right track.
I think there was a whole lot of talk in PFAL about one giving, there probably was a whole lot of talk about fellowship too, but I don't recall there being much talk about how these two things work together to the end of someone seeing positive results. It soon became a "I only give to get" thing, and the whole fellowship thing was soon completely forgotten and left far behind.
If St.Victoronius' ecclesiastical succession at the sacred city of New Knoxville were even one iota of half the man the holy father had imagined himself to be - or wished to be -, the first session of "the Power" would be broadcast 'round the globe for free - to every man, woman, young person and child and any other created thing above, below and upon the inhabited planet. The Path would be broadcasting its doctrines 24 hours a day via satellite and shortwave, drawing from the archives of the sacred father's recorded utterances from the BRC on the mount.
DVD sets of the Power would slide through the pews like hot pancakes.
And everybody would be talking about it.
And there would be much dancing of wallets and pocketbooks,
If St.Victoronius' ecclesiastical succession at the sacred city of New Knoxville were even one iota of half the man the holy father had imagined himself to be - or wished to be -, the first session of "the Power" would be broadcast 'round the globe for free - to every man, woman, young person and child and any other created thing above, below and upon the inhabited planet. The Path would be broadcasting its doctrines 24 hours a day via satellite and shortwave, drawing from the archives of the sacred father's recorded utterances from the BRC on the mount.
DVD sets of the Power would slide through the pews like hot pancakes.
And everybody would be talking about it.
And there would be much dancing of wallets and pocketbooks,
If St.Victoronius' ecclesiastical succession at the sacred city of New Knoxville were even one iota of half the man the holy father had imagined himself to be - or wished to be -, the first session of "the Power" would be broadcast 'round the globe for free - to every man, woman, young person and child and any other created thing above, below and upon the inhabited planet. The Path would be broadcasting its doctrines 24 hours a day via satellite and shortwave, drawing from the archives of the sacred father's recorded utterances from the BRC on the mount.
DVD sets of the Power would slide through the pews like hot pancakes.
And everybody would be talking about it.
And there would be much dancing of wallets and pocketbooks,
leaping for joy in New Knoxville.
But we live in the Dark Universe.
This, regardless of errors or plagerism, cannot be argued with IMHO. True Christians give without thought or expectation of recompense from man of any kind. Again IMHO.
There is the answer to what killed more than just that little boy. If there is ever a rich truth, a blessing to God's people, the most valued things God intends for his people in His Word, then one can always count on the devil (the bible says it is the devil who is the author or death - not fear; although that is one of his tactics) moving in on that territory and mischaracterizing it, twisting it, distorting it, finding those who would abuse in until that jewel of truth is lost.
The best things from God to His people, and the way the devil robs from God's people is to get some nut to move in on that territory and exploit it out of context, twist it from the center of truth, and turn people off by it. That which has been rich for God's people has always been twisted and abused by the simple minded and the devious minded so it is almost a lost truth of scripture even to those who live God's way.
All the promises of God - all His laws and His principles, are text in God's Word. The law of scriptural exegesis is: Text without context is error. God does not make His promises, His laws and His principles in a vacuum. The only people who can claim those promises are those who give hilariously. If you are one of those people, then you can leave all the rest (the nut cases) behind and talk about your blessing.
The reason some people don't have God's unmerited favor abounding toward them is because they have not learned how to become a hilarious giver.FEAR certainly does that - and that is what I believe happened to that woman and her boy in that PFAL story. The only place (and there is no other place) in the Word of God where it talks about God abounding toward you so that you have all sufficiency in all things is in 2 Corinthians 9:8. That verse is the result of those who have applied the previous verses, the verses that pertaining to hilarious giving. Now the simple minded and devous minded typically think of hilarious giving only in terms of $$$, but I am not talking about $$$. That's right. You don't need $$$ to be a hilarious giver. Even the historic Christian Church has FEAR dealing with this subject, and it is the FEAR of being characterized with all the nuts...
Trading? There might be something to that, but being a trader myself (a stock trader) I don't always get back what I put into a trade. Sometimes I get back more and sometimes I get less than what I expected. That is how trading goes. The truth is: we are all investors - we invest in what is important to us. We all end up trading something of value for something else of value (for example: if you are an employee then you trade your time and your talent for a paycheck) and there is something about professional investing that gives one even greater insight on acessing those "codes to prosperity, health, happiness and good fortune" as you so eloquently put it...
Actually, I meant to point out that YOU were re-defining "giving" as trading. And though you may claim you are doing an exegesis of a passage on giving, it is more of an eisegesis as you tend to incorporate assumptions and speculations into your explanation. Wikipedia explains the distinction:
"The word exegesis can mean explanation, but as a technical term it means "to draw the meaning out of" a given text. Exegesis may be contrasted with eisegesis, which means to read one's own interpretation into a given text. In general, exegesis presumes an attempt to view the text objectively, while eisegesis implies more subjectivity.
One may encounter the terms exegesis and hermeneutics used interchangeably; however, there remains a distinction. An exegesis is the interpretation and understanding of a text on the basis of the text itself. A hermeneutic is a practical application of a certain method or theory of interpretation, often revolving around the contemporary relevance of the text in question."
One way we can alter the meaning of a passage is by yanking it out of context. Another way is by superimposing ideas onto the passage – assumptions and speculations that are not supported by the context. I've heard it said context is the way things are woven together. Certainly an alteration can be made by pulling threads out of the weave [taking it out of context]. But a serious alteration can also be made by weaving a foreign thread into the context.
Your post # 35 alludes to laws and principles that must be obeyed or you suffer the consequences. As Word Wolf said, VPW's explanation of the death of the mother's little boy was the "law of believing." Perhaps you thought you were coming to VPW's defense by shifting to another topic like giving…but your whole digression is very confusing and still does not excuse VPW's erroneous doctrines – that weave into Scripture a foreign thread of a self-centered fixation on material things. And I also find there's something contradictory about your statement: "The reason some people don't have God's unmerited favor abounding toward them is because they have not learned how to become a hilarious giver." If it is God's unmerited favor then why do I have to become a hilarious giver? I should not have to do anything to MERIT God's UNMERITED favor. This is a typical TWI mindset of believing there's ways to manipulate God and reality for personal gain. You may think trading and giving are synonymous or giving is investing - but biblical usage of the word "give" does not carry with it any such idea.
The apparent truth of many passages that address generosity is the focus on nobler things like service to another – with an emphasis on the spiritual impact or benefit - whether now or in the future. II Corinthians 9:10 speaks of the "harvest of your righteousness" and Matthew 19:21 mentions "treasure in heaven."
II Corinthians 9:6-15 NIV
6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9As it is written:
"He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor;
his righteousness endures forever."[a]10Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.
12This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God's people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!
Matthew 19:16-30 NIV
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[f] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
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Tom Strange
I bet I can stand in the back and still lip-sync most of every session... unfortunately.
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T-Bone
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oldiesman
PFAL should be on the internet free of charge.
Each 30 minute segment... streamline video, so anyone may view.
Why won't twi do it? Lot's of goodies in there.
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Ham
I'll bring the ouija board..
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Bolshevik
Staff have asked the Board of Directors directly about similar things. They shoot those ideas down aggressively.
The internet seems to scare them. They have had a service or two prodcast over a television station out of Lima, OH.
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Kevlar2000
d,
you forgot to add "ITH (in the Household)"
You're in danger of becoming unsalted. Renew your mind.
*snort*
:lol:
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coolchef
can i bring the pot brownies????
talk about speaking in a strang language!
whoopiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ham
I'll bring the mushroom sauce..
enough of that, and people will be able to see in tongues..
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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What The Hey
There is the answer to what killed more than just that little boy. If there is ever a rich truth, a blessing to God's people, the most valued things God intends for his people in His Word, then one can always count on the devil (the bible says it is the devil who is the author or death - not fear; although that is one of his tactics) moving in on that territory and mischaracterizing it, twisting it, distorting it, finding those who would abuse in until that jewel of truth is lost.
The best things from God to His people, and the way the devil robs from God's people is to get some nut to move in on that territory and exploit it out of context, twist it from the center of truth, and turn people off by it. That which has been rich for God's people has always been twisted and abused by the simple minded and the devious minded so it is almost a lost truth of scripture even to those who live God's way.
All the promises of God - all His laws and His principles, are text in God's Word. The law of scriptural exegesis is: Text without context is error. God does not make His promises, His laws and His principles in a vacuum. The only people who can claim those promises are those who give hilariously. If you are one of those people, then you can leave all the rest (the nut cases) behind and talk about your blessing.
The reason some people don't have God's unmerited favor abounding toward them is because they have not learned how to become a hilarious giver. FEAR certainly does that - and that is what I believe happened to that woman and her boy in that PFAL story. The only place (and there is no other place) in the Word of God where it talks about God abounding toward you so that you have all sufficiency in all things is in 2 Corinthians 9:8. That verse is the result of those who have applied the previous verses, the verses that pertaining to hilarious giving. Now the simple minded and devous minded typically think of hilarious giving only in terms of $$$, but I am not talking about $$$. That's right. You don't need $$$ to be a hilarious giver. Even the historic Christian Church has FEAR dealing with this subject, and it is the FEAR of being characterized with all the nuts.
Jesus Christ commended the widow above all, and she only had 2 mites and she gave them both there in Mark 12:42. She gave it all. Most of the nut cases out there use this verse of scripture to extract more $$$ from you, as the only reason they give is due to need. But the verses in 2 Corinthians that deal with hilarious giving tells us we don't give grudgingly (that's from grief) nor out of neccesity (that's out of need). Jesus didn't commend the woman because of the amount of $ she gave. Jesus was sitting over against the treasury, as the previous verse says, and he beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and it says many that were rich cast in much. That right. Jesus saw everything that was going on and he didn't commend those who had the big $$$ - those who were rich and who cast much into the treasury. The only one Jesus commended was the woman who threw in 2 mites. Unfortunately that is not how the Christian church operates or commends people today.
The principle is, she gave it all. But what about the case of the widow who had nothing but 1 meal left? She only gave 1/3 of it to the man of God. What's the end of the story in the Word of God in that case? Did she end up poorer or richer because she only gave 1/3 of her meal instead of the entire amount? That is why I am not suggesting people should throw in everything that they have and that everybody has to give everything that they have to their church - just because the church has all these needs to be fulfilled. What I am saying is - be a hilarious giver - even with very little - and God is able to make all grace abound toward you.
So where does that leave most of the beggars of the Church world today then? The Word of God says you're not to give from grief; because your emotions have been dug by tearjerking testimonies from evangelists who could mop floors without a waterbucket - by their instant ability to turn it on. It's that motivation out of neccessity because of a need. The only reason many do give is because of a need; that is, we need this building, we need this extension. We need to get these bibles out, etc., etc., etc. or whatever the need happens to be. So what's left then if we can't raise $$$ with tears or a need - just what's left?
The only thing left is the Holy Spirit working in you, to reproduce His nature which gives without reason. That's idealisitc. That's right, and the only problem is God sees it so seldom. The bible doesn't say God loves only those who don't have any fear at all. It doesn't say he only loves those who are tounge talkers or those who keep on breathing for His namesake - those who want to put on a show. Nope, the only thing God loves is a hilarious giver.
There are wonderful things that happen to those who live and give God's way. That's why many times we have to rescue the "baby from the bathwater" those who are living in FEAR. It's fear that keeps them from becoming a hilarious giver and fear that keeps you from becoming one - fear of lack due to need. People try all the time to claim God's promises without hilarious giving so the result is they can only act out of fear! Some people will stay confused all their life about it and will continue to wonder why they can't get any correction or any results from their giving. Are you still confused? Then I suggest you find some little "2 mite" promise you can act upon to get God's spirit working in you and cultivate it. When you feel the urge to give, then give hilariously about it. All of a sudden your darkness, God promises, will become light. It is the hilarious giver that gets the light and finds God's promises.
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Ham
My question, are "refreshments" served in genuine re-used styrofoam cups, complete with lipstick stains and bite marks?
Ah.. that would bring back a few memories..
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doojable
What kind of scareyass Class did they run for you???? :blink:
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Ham
It was unbelievable..
and the "coffee". I think they reused the grounds and sprinkled salt on them so it wouldn't taste so funky..
Usually they were pretty good about scrubbing the lipstick off of the cups, but you could see where it was..
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JavaJane
Not in any class where I was in charge, buddy!! Best coffee around - strong stuff - with half and half and maybe some of those frilly creamers... and finger sandwiches, or homemade cookies, or cinnamon rolls... MMMMmmmmMMMMmmmm....
I ain't called "Java" Jane for nothin'
I made sure that coffee was darn strong for those of us on the crew, 'cause Lord knows we were WIPED OUT and falling asleep in the back row most nights.
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Ham
Too bad we didn't have your expertise, JJ.
I eventually caught on though.. I started bringing my own coffee, and my own cup..
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freelady
The best things from God to His people, and the way the devil robs from God's people is to get some nut to move in on that territory and exploit it out of context, twist it from the center of truth, and turn people off by it. That which has been rich for God's people has always been twisted and abused by the simple minded and the devious minded so it is almost a lost truth of scripture even to those who live God's way.
All the promises of God - all His laws and His principles, are text in God's Word. The law of scriptural exegesis is: Text without context is error. God does not make His promises, His laws and His principles in a vacuum. The only people who can claim those promises are those who give hilariously. If you are one of those people, then you can leave all the rest (the nut cases) behind and talk about your blessing.
The reason some people don't have God's unmerited favor abounding toward them is because they have not learned how to become a hilarious giver. FEAR certainly does that - and that is what I believe happened to that woman and her boy in that PFAL story. The only place (and there is no other place) in the Word of God where it talks about God abounding toward you so that you have all sufficiency in all things is in 2 Corinthians 9:8. That verse is the result of those who have applied the previous verses, the verses that pertaining to hilarious giving. Now the simple minded and devous minded typically think of hilarious giving only in terms of $$$, but I am not talking about $$$. That's right. You don't need $$$ to be a hilarious giver. Even the historic Christian Church has FEAR dealing with this subject, and it is the FEAR of being characterized with all the nuts.
Jesus Christ commended the widow above all, and she only had 2 mites and she gave them both there in Mark 12:42. She gave it all. Most of the nut cases out there use this verse of scripture to extract more $$$ from you, as the only reason they give is due to need. But the verses in 2 Corinthians that deal with hilarious giving tells us we don't give grudgingly (that's from grief) nor out of neccesity (that's out of need). Jesus didn't commend the woman because of the amount of $ she gave. Jesus was sitting over against the treasury, as the previous verse says, and he beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and it says many that were rich cast in much. That right. Jesus saw everything that was going on and he didn't commend those who had the big $$$ - those who were rich and who cast much into the treasury. The only one Jesus commended was the woman who threw in 2 mites. Unfortunately that is not how the Christian church operates or commends people today.
The principle is, she gave it all. But what about the case of the widow who had nothing but 1 meal left? She only gave 1/3 of it to the man of God. What's the end of the story in the Word of God in that case? Did she end up poorer or richer because she only gave 1/3 of her meal instead of the entire amount? That is why I am not suggesting people should throw in everything that they have and that everybody has to give everything that they have to their church - just because the church has all these needs to be fulfilled. What I am saying is - be a hilarious giver - even with very little - and God is able to make all grace abound toward you.
So where does that leave most of the beggars of the Church world today then? The Word of God says you're not to give from grief; because your emotions have been dug by tearjerking testimonies from evangelists who could mop floors without a waterbucket - by their instant ability to turn it on. It's that motivation out of neccessity because of a need. The only reason many do give is because of a need; that is, we need this building, we need this extension. We need to get these bibles out, etc., etc., etc. or whatever the need happens to be. So what's left then if we can't raise $$$ with tears or a need - just what's left?
The only thing left is the Holy Spirit working in you, to reproduce His nature which gives without reason. That's idealisitc. That's right, and the only problem is God sees it so seldom. The bible doesn't say God loves only those who don't have any fear at all. It doesn't say he only loves those who are tounge talkers or those who keep on breathing for His namesake - those who want to put on a show. Nope, the only thing God loves is a hilarious giver.
There are wonderful things that happen to those who live and give God's way. That's why many times we have to rescue the "baby from the bathwater" those who are living in FEAR. It's fear that keeps them from becoming a hilarious giver and fear that keeps you from becoming one - fear of lack due to need. People try all the time to claim God's promises without hilarious giving so the result is they can only act out of fear! Some people will stay confused all their life about it and will continue to wonder why they can't get any correction or any results from their giving. Are you still confused? Then I suggest you find some little "2 mite" promise you can act upon to get God's spirit working in you and cultivate it. When you feel the urge to give, then give hilariously about it. All of a sudden your darkness, God promises, will become light. It is the hilarious giver that gets the light and finds God's promises.
I agree with you sssooooooooooo much, always have. I love to give and I teach my kids that to, they have seen miracles in this single moms life from given, also I was raised in a strick Church of God and I only learned of Gods punishment if you did wrong. only from the PFAL class did I learn that God is a Good God and will answer our prayers and forgive us. And I will keep your post. I think it deserves to be read again. Thank you.
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coolchef
freelady god is a good god
go to any church and they will tell you that
twi is a BAD place and so is piffle
get a job and a life
i mean this in no dis respect but piffle ain't good
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T-Bone
It sounds like you’re describing trading – not giving. It reminds me of TWI’s mentality of giving to get something back. That was typical of their opportunist mindset – talking about supposed laws and principles like they cracked the access codes to prosperity, health, happiness and good fortune. So much of TWI’s pushing these imaginary laws and principles winds up manipulating followers into supporting their agenda all the while leaving followers with false expectations – thinking God owes them something.
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What The Hey
Trading? There might be something to that, but being a trader myself (a stock trader) I don't always get back what I put into a trade. Sometimes I get back more and sometimes I get less than what I expected. That is how trading goes. The truth is: we are all investors - we invest in what is important to us. We all end up trading something of value for something else of value (for example: if you are an employee then you trade your time and your talent for a paycheck) and there is something about professional investing that gives one even greater insight on acessing those "codes to prosperity, health, happiness and good fortune" as you so eloquently put it.
But when you study hilarious giving from the Word of Gid, it is always in the context of sharing, not necessarily giving or trading. Trading is an act, but sharing is an investment. That's the reason why many people love to give but hate to share, as sharing goes beyond just the physical act of trading or giving. The word in the Greek is the word koinonia - it is translated not only as fellowship (as in a fully sharing fellowship) but it is also translated to distribute, to be a partaker, to make a contribution.
That word - koinonia deals not only with fellowship but we also see this word used in the context in the Word of God in relation to hilarious giving. Here's a good example, actually probably the best example: John 3:16 - it's a very well known verse of scripture. It says: For God so loved the world that He gave ... etc. Now just what was the reason for God giving? Was it because God needed health, happiness and good fortune etc. back in return? Was that why God gave? No, God gave because God needed, wanted, and desired fellowship - and that is a full sharing fellowship, and that "koinonia" is also with us and with one another. That is why this word, koinonia also appears in 1 John 1:3,6 and 7. Take a look at those verses sometime. Those are the verses that deal with fellowship and that type of giving and that type of fellowship are all intrinsically tied and woven together throughout the Word of God.
That's why if one breaks this principle from God's Word, one could give until their blue in the face and it would be the reason they don't see diddly squat in return. The problem isn't always an issue over what one gives or in what one receives or what one doesn't receive. Many times it is a "fellowship" issue - and it is a koinonia fellowship issue at that. Certainly there is much more to expound in this regard, but this just might get one started back on the right track.
I think there was a whole lot of talk in PFAL about one giving, there probably was a whole lot of talk about fellowship too, but I don't recall there being much talk about how these two things work together to the end of someone seeing positive results. It soon became a "I only give to get" thing, and the whole fellowship thing was soon completely forgotten and left far behind.
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TheInvisibleDan
If St.Victoronius' ecclesiastical succession at the sacred city of New Knoxville were even one iota of half the man the holy father had imagined himself to be - or wished to be -, the first session of "the Power" would be broadcast 'round the globe for free - to every man, woman, young person and child and any other created thing above, below and upon the inhabited planet. The Path would be broadcasting its doctrines 24 hours a day via satellite and shortwave, drawing from the archives of the sacred father's recorded utterances from the BRC on the mount.
DVD sets of the Power would slide through the pews like hot pancakes.
And everybody would be talking about it.
And there would be much dancing of wallets and pocketbooks,
leaping for joy in New Knoxville.
But we live in the Dark Universe.
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JavaJane
Dan, that was beautiful.
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Eyesopen
This, regardless of errors or plagerism, cannot be argued with IMHO. True Christians give without thought or expectation of recompense from man of any kind. Again IMHO.
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Ham
People can be so afraid to look into a dark universe..
it isn't quite as dark as some think.
:)
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T-Bone
Actually, I meant to point out that YOU were re-defining "giving" as trading. And though you may claim you are doing an exegesis of a passage on giving, it is more of an eisegesis as you tend to incorporate assumptions and speculations into your explanation. Wikipedia explains the distinction:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exegesis
"The word exegesis can mean explanation, but as a technical term it means "to draw the meaning out of" a given text. Exegesis may be contrasted with eisegesis, which means to read one's own interpretation into a given text. In general, exegesis presumes an attempt to view the text objectively, while eisegesis implies more subjectivity.
One may encounter the terms exegesis and hermeneutics used interchangeably; however, there remains a distinction. An exegesis is the interpretation and understanding of a text on the basis of the text itself. A hermeneutic is a practical application of a certain method or theory of interpretation, often revolving around the contemporary relevance of the text in question."
One way we can alter the meaning of a passage is by yanking it out of context. Another way is by superimposing ideas onto the passage – assumptions and speculations that are not supported by the context. I've heard it said context is the way things are woven together. Certainly an alteration can be made by pulling threads out of the weave [taking it out of context]. But a serious alteration can also be made by weaving a foreign thread into the context.
Your post # 35 alludes to laws and principles that must be obeyed or you suffer the consequences. As Word Wolf said, VPW's explanation of the death of the mother's little boy was the "law of believing." Perhaps you thought you were coming to VPW's defense by shifting to another topic like giving…but your whole digression is very confusing and still does not excuse VPW's erroneous doctrines – that weave into Scripture a foreign thread of a self-centered fixation on material things. And I also find there's something contradictory about your statement: "The reason some people don't have God's unmerited favor abounding toward them is because they have not learned how to become a hilarious giver." If it is God's unmerited favor then why do I have to become a hilarious giver? I should not have to do anything to MERIT God's UNMERITED favor. This is a typical TWI mindset of believing there's ways to manipulate God and reality for personal gain. You may think trading and giving are synonymous or giving is investing - but biblical usage of the word "give" does not carry with it any such idea.
The apparent truth of many passages that address generosity is the focus on nobler things like service to another – with an emphasis on the spiritual impact or benefit - whether now or in the future. II Corinthians 9:10 speaks of the "harvest of your righteousness" and Matthew 19:21 mentions "treasure in heaven."
II Corinthians 9:6-15 NIV
6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9As it is written:
"He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor;
his righteousness endures forever."[a] 10Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God.
12This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God's people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. 13Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 14And in their prayers for you their hearts will go out to you, because of the surpassing grace God has given you. 15Thanks be to God for his indescribable gift!
Matthew 19:16-30 NIV
16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"
26Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
27Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"
28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[f] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
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Jeaniam
I'd love to come but I live in Missouri and we went to Florida last year. Maybe another time.
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