I hope you will take some time to do a little reading of the material on the home page here at GS. Running PF@L for people new to the Word will expose them to some significant errors. You might want to reconsider. That class is not what TWI said it was, nor is it what we thought it was. (I first took it in 73) Of course, there is a lot of scripture referenced, and that's nice, but the conclusions drawn from them are often misconstrued and downright wrong. PLEASE rethink running it for people new to the Word. I know I wouldn't want to feel responsible for someone being led astray from the truth of God's Word...and running PF@L would be doing just that.
I STRONGLY advise that you study it yourself first and compare it with the articles on the GS home page.
I am not in twi, I know there are people out there who just want to see the PFAL class for the 1st time to see for themselves. And what is a better place to post the class? EVERYONE in and out reads this. I know the fear in the woman's heart didn't get her son killed, she should have kept a closer eye on him since he didn't have a dozen brothers and sisters to help watch. But there is some good to the class. I liked the class. I bailed out early, but remembered the class. I promise I won't brainwash anyone, just have the class and form your own opinion and you can go home.
Pray as if it is all up to God and Work like it is all up to you and you will succeed.
Welcome to our community and you certainly started something with this thread. :)
May I offer you some advice and that would be don't reveal who you are to anyone here behind he scenes unless you know who they are for your own protection. TWI has gone after people that stole their materials and made life difficult for them. And please understand I am not saying you stole the materials because I have no idea how you came by them. I am just offering a friendly warning that you should protect yourself with anonymity while posting here. There are folks that register here who are not the good guys and you wouldn't know them from the good guys because they are very good at hiding.
Iwould love to sit through your class. I haven't had the opportunity to sit through it in years. My only problem is I am in Michigan and you are in HOT HOT Florida. Maybe someday I'll get to visit while you are holding another one. Thanks for the invite though.
As to all those that say there are errors in it. well there is probably a few errors in your thinking also. I'm willing to hold fast that which is good and throw into the trash that which is not.
If you think you may have posted something you should not have, you can edit if it's early enough or ask Paw for advise on removing undesired sections.
For the record.
I found this place while searching for a replacement for my PFAL book. I lent out my materials for years to people who seemed to have a desire to know more but things don't always make it back. I don't have any qualms about having done so because I never directed them towards TWI. Without the group pressure, people are more likely to selectively sort through what they choose to accept or reject.
I wouldn't mind having a PFAL book for reference purposes only, but, knowing what I know now, I would never lend it out again.(Even if I thought it WOULD come back)
There are probably lots of other materials you could use to achieve your purpose because, as you have probably gathered, most of PFAL was "borrowed" material anyhow.
Anyway, I hope you feel comfortable enough to stick around awhile.
How are you going to run the class? Tapes or video cassettes? Do you have copies of the sylabus you're going to hand out. Just curious.
<center>sudo</center>
DVD, Yes. Some of the teachings are really great. I really don't think we actually have the "God Breathed Word" with all the translations, but the PFAL gives us a good insight of it. Even if some of the information came from someone else, it is good information. I really think it is selfish of someone who wants to limit these teaching. A true Christian would want everyone to hear these, God was not selfish about keeping his word from us. Am I right or wrong? Probably wrong. And how do I get intouch with Paw?
pray as if was up to God and work as if it is up to you and you will succeed.
You send him a message (we call it a private message) and to to that go up to the first bar on the forums page (Just under the Greasespot banner) and you'll see where you can click for 'members'. Click on that and then type in Pawtucket. Click on the arrow beside his name and select message.
That's sounding kinda' complicated.. tell you what.. I'll tell him to get in contact with you, OK??
sudo
P.S. You heard what ChattyKathy told you... the PFAL class is still owned by TWI and you don't have authorization to run it I'm pretty dang sure. Be very very careful about giving out any personal information here, my dear. The WayGB WILL track you down. I doubt they'll bring legal action for political reasons but they could make trouble.
If you don't want to email, you could also send a PM directly to Pawtucket.
If you need technical info on how to do more than that, I'm not the best one to give any technical advise 'cause I'm not very "hip" (or "hep" if you prefer) on matters that involve the cyber world.
OOPS! I didn't see that Sudo had already posted to you.
Or you can do what I do and start a post and then get up and do something and come back and finish it and half a dozen folks have posted in the meantime.
Back when I first took PFAL [1974] I believed it was the greatest thing on earth for helping a Christian understand the Bible. Thought so for the 12 years I was involved with TWI. That’s only because I used TWI’s intellectual standards to form an opinion…The problem with that is – TWI’s intellectual standards are way below par – not only in reference to biblical scholarship but even in plain old reasoning. The fact that VPW plagiarized most of his material from various sources has indeed produced a patchwork theology – requiring students to compartmentalize any tenets that are inconsistent with others in the whole framework of thought.
I think a Christian would be a lot better off checking out Bible study books from legitimate authors. One of my favorites is Understanding the Bible by John Stott. A cheap little paperback that does a lot more for activating the Bible student’s mind, has a common sense approach to Scripture, doesn’t front a particular agenda and encourages the Christian to develop a conscientious belief system from their studies [in other words you explore and experience the truth personally – and don’t conform to the cookie-cutter mentality prevalent in cults]. Personal study tends to be self-directed – you analyze rather than absorbing like a typical PFAL student.
We always heard in school that you're never supposed to use a word to define in its own definition. Sadly, that is the end result of much of TWI's doctrine. They use their own definitions to define other things. It becomes intellectual incest. The not only lacked Biblical scholarship - they lacked any sort of scholarship at all.
Yeah...sign me up...is there any charge? I would love to learn how to have more harmony in my home and how to clear up apparent bible contradictions...
It's my understanding that God Hisself told VeePee Wormwille what should be taught in this class...do you have refreshments at break time?
Maybe some Kool-aid? 'Ya know.. I always LIVED for those break times though about all we ever got was weak coffee and carrot and celery sticks. But we could smell the coffee brewing about 30 minutes before break. No half and half for it though... got coffee creamer. And ranch dressing for carrots and celery. That was probably a Grace Bliss thingee.
Re:<B><I><font color=maroon>"..do you have refreshments at break time?"</font></I></B>
Maybe some Kool-aid? 'Ya know.. I always LIVED for those break times though about all we ever got was weak coffee and carrot and celery sticks. But we could smell the coffee brewing about 30 minutes before break. No half and half for it though... got coffee creamer. And ranch dressing for carrots and celery. That was probably a Grace Bliss thingee.
<center>sudo</center>
Sudo - that's only because I wasn't doing the refreshments for your class. I had it down to a science. Something sweet, something low calorie, some protein for those that came straight from work.
You guys can poke fun if you want to...but I'm really looking forward to sitting through the class, just to see what Gawd will reveal to me...Can I take notes?...or should I save my questions till the end?
Is there assigned seating?...I want to sit in the front row so I can REALLY pay attention!...I hear that at one point Mr. Wormwille mentions that all the wimin in the kingdom belong to the king!...it's about time that the truth of his holy will be known again like it hasn't been known since 1975...I hear tell that some folks even start talking in a strange language...I think it's Aramaic but I'm not sure...Lo Shanta!...I was told that those words mean..."pass the drambuie"...Is that true?
You guys can poke fun if you want to...but I'm really looking forward to sitting through the class, just to see what Gawd will reveal to me...Can I take notes?...or should I save my questions till the end?
If you're truly spiritual there will be no questions.
Is there assigned seating?...I want to sit in the front row so I can REALLY pay attention!...
Not only will there be assigned seating, there will be a person assigned to watch..ummm..pray for you ( ya that's the ticket, PRAY for you!) AND the seats will have been strung for your (gag) edification and enjoyment.
I hear that at one point Mr. Wormwille mentions that all the wimin in the kingdom belong to the king!
They do!
...it's about time that the truth of his holy will be known again like it hasn't been known since 1975
And we've got snow on gaspumps to prove it, Baby! ;)
...I hear tell that some folks even start talking in a strange language...I think it's Aramaic but I'm not sure...Lo Shanta!...I was told that those words mean..."pass the drambuie"...Is that true?
How are you going to run the class? Tapes or video cassettes? Do you have copies of the sylabus you're going to hand out. Just curious.
sudo
Freelady,
Welcome to our community and you certainly started something with this thread. :)
May I offer you some advice and that would be don't reveal who you are to anyone here behind he scenes unless you know who they are for your own protection. TWI has gone after people that stole their materials and made life difficult for them. And please understand I am not saying you stole the materials because I have no idea how you came by them. I am just offering a friendly warning that you should protect yourself with anonymity while posting here. There are folks that register here who are not the good guys and you wouldn't know them from the good guys because they are very good at hiding.
Be well,
Kathy
DVD, Yes. Some of the teachings are really great. I really don't think we actually have the "God Breathed Word" with all the translations, but the PFAL gives us a good insight of it. Even if some of the information came from someone else, it is good information. I really think it is selfish of someone who wants to limit these teaching. A true Christian would want everyone to hear these, God was not selfish about keeping his word from us. Am I right or wrong? Probably wrong. And how do I get in touch with Paw?
pray as if was up to God and work as if it is up to you and you will succeed.
Freelady -- you're 100% correct that a TRUE CHRISTIAN would LOVE for folks to hear teachings.
And you're 100% correct that God is NOT selfish about keeping His Word hidden.
What you DO need to realize is that once twi enters the picture --
the dice are loaded, the cards are marked, and the dealer is crooked.
I say that with all the LOGITRMIM that I can muster.
:)
Like Chatty Kathy said -- be as anonymous as can be in your posts, because ---
even though twi no longer teaches pfal, I bet they still have the copyright for it.
I'm guessing about that one, I don't know, nor can I say for a sure thing.
Personally I wouldn't sit in, but for those who do ---
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coolchef
lady
are you nuts?
are you for real? do you realize where you are posting?
get a job and a life out of twi
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Raf
Now, now, plenty of people still have fond memories of the class and may want to take it for any number of reasons. Be nice.
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Listener
Hi there, freelady, and welcome to GS.
I hope you will take some time to do a little reading of the material on the home page here at GS. Running PF@L for people new to the Word will expose them to some significant errors. You might want to reconsider. That class is not what TWI said it was, nor is it what we thought it was. (I first took it in 73) Of course, there is a lot of scripture referenced, and that's nice, but the conclusions drawn from them are often misconstrued and downright wrong. PLEASE rethink running it for people new to the Word. I know I wouldn't want to feel responsible for someone being led astray from the truth of God's Word...and running PF@L would be doing just that.
I STRONGLY advise that you study it yourself first and compare it with the articles on the GS home page.
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WordWolf
Of especial concern is the effect that one of the scenes in Session One has on parents.
That's when vpw makes up an imaginary woman and child in an attempt to get people
to believe his "fear is negative believing and it makes things happen" doctrine.
He says that this woman (like very many mothers and fathers, including much of his audience)
worried about the safety of her only child, all the time.
In this respect, she's just like millions of mothers who see their kids arrive safely home
every day after they worried about them.
Where she's different is that one day, the kid is struck by a car and killed.
vpw is VERY SPECIFIC about the cause of death.
Is it the driver? Is it the faulty brakes? Is it a poorly-constructed road, which produced a
blind turn? Is it even the result of the child being improperly socialized?
No.
"YOU KNOW WHAT KILLED THAT BOY.
IT WAS THE FEAR......IN THE HEART.....OF THAT MOTHER."
If that mother existed, vpw was acting much as Joel's miserable comforters-
blaming HER PERSONALLY for bad things that happened,
despite God causing the rain to fall on the just and unjust.
A number of people here have talked about themselves or their parents having been
traumatized by that segment.
Can you say-in good conscience-that you are ready to expose a new group of people
to such a destructive, error-filled doctrine?
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freelady
I am not in twi, I know there are people out there who just want to see the PFAL class for the 1st time to see for themselves. And what is a better place to post the class? EVERYONE in and out reads this. I know the fear in the woman's heart didn't get her son killed, she should have kept a closer eye on him since he didn't have a dozen brothers and sisters to help watch. But there is some good to the class. I liked the class. I bailed out early, but remembered the class. I promise I won't brainwash anyone, just have the class and form your own opinion and you can go home.
Pray as if it is all up to God and Work like it is all up to you and you will succeed.
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Sudo
Freelady,
How are you going to run the class? Tapes or video cassettes? Do you have copies of the sylabus you're going to hand out. Just curious.
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ChattyKathy
Freelady,
Welcome to our community and you certainly started something with this thread. :)
May I offer you some advice and that would be don't reveal who you are to anyone here behind he scenes unless you know who they are for your own protection. TWI has gone after people that stole their materials and made life difficult for them. And please understand I am not saying you stole the materials because I have no idea how you came by them. I am just offering a friendly warning that you should protect yourself with anonymity while posting here. There are folks that register here who are not the good guys and you wouldn't know them from the good guys because they are very good at hiding.
Be well,
Kathy
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Tom Strange
Why not contact the BG Leonard folks and get together a bunch of people to take THE ORIGINAL???
If you could only see it in THE ORIGINAL!
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Out There
Iwould love to sit through your class. I haven't had the opportunity to sit through it in years. My only problem is I am in Michigan and you are in HOT HOT Florida. Maybe someday I'll get to visit while you are holding another one. Thanks for the invite though.
As to all those that say there are errors in it. well there is probably a few errors in your thinking also. I'm willing to hold fast that which is good and throw into the trash that which is not.
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oldiesman
Freelady,
I'd love to sit through a few sessions again. But I'm in NY and you're in Florida.
"Christ in You, the Hope A Glooooray"
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waysider
Freelady
The "talking doll" speaks words of wisdom.
If you think you may have posted something you should not have, you can edit if it's early enough or ask Paw for advise on removing undesired sections.
For the record.
I found this place while searching for a replacement for my PFAL book. I lent out my materials for years to people who seemed to have a desire to know more but things don't always make it back. I don't have any qualms about having done so because I never directed them towards TWI. Without the group pressure, people are more likely to selectively sort through what they choose to accept or reject.
I wouldn't mind having a PFAL book for reference purposes only, but, knowing what I know now, I would never lend it out again.(Even if I thought it WOULD come back)
There are probably lots of other materials you could use to achieve your purpose because, as you have probably gathered, most of PFAL was "borrowed" material anyhow.
Anyway, I hope you feel comfortable enough to stick around awhile.
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freelady
DVD, Yes. Some of the teachings are really great. I really don't think we actually have the "God Breathed Word" with all the translations, but the PFAL gives us a good insight of it. Even if some of the information came from someone else, it is good information. I really think it is selfish of someone who wants to limit these teaching. A true Christian would want everyone to hear these, God was not selfish about keeping his word from us. Am I right or wrong? Probably wrong. And how do I get intouch with Paw?
pray as if was up to God and work as if it is up to you and you will succeed.
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Sudo
Freelady,
Re:"And how do I get intouch with Paw?"
You send him a message (we call it a private message) and to to that go up to the first bar on the forums page (Just under the Greasespot banner) and you'll see where you can click for 'members'. Click on that and then type in Pawtucket. Click on the arrow beside his name and select message.
That's sounding kinda' complicated.. tell you what.. I'll tell him to get in contact with you, OK??
P.S. You heard what ChattyKathy told you... the PFAL class is still owned by TWI and you don't have authorization to run it I'm pretty dang sure. Be very very careful about giving out any personal information here, my dear. The WayGB WILL track you down. I doubt they'll bring legal action for political reasons but they could make trouble.
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waysider
Freelady
Go to the main menu and click on contact us.
If you don't want to email, you could also send a PM directly to Pawtucket.
If you need technical info on how to do more than that, I'm not the best one to give any technical advise 'cause I'm not very "hip" (or "hep" if you prefer) on matters that involve the cyber world.
OOPS! I didn't see that Sudo had already posted to you.
(edit is a good option also)
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Sudo
Waysider,
I've done the very same thing.. Hee-hee!
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ChattyKathy
Or you can do what I do and start a post and then get up and do something and come back and finish it and half a dozen folks have posted in the meantime.
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T-Bone
Back when I first took PFAL [1974] I believed it was the greatest thing on earth for helping a Christian understand the Bible. Thought so for the 12 years I was involved with TWI. That’s only because I used TWI’s intellectual standards to form an opinion…The problem with that is – TWI’s intellectual standards are way below par – not only in reference to biblical scholarship but even in plain old reasoning. The fact that VPW plagiarized most of his material from various sources has indeed produced a patchwork theology – requiring students to compartmentalize any tenets that are inconsistent with others in the whole framework of thought.
I think a Christian would be a lot better off checking out Bible study books from legitimate authors. One of my favorites is Understanding the Bible by John Stott. A cheap little paperback that does a lot more for activating the Bible student’s mind, has a common sense approach to Scripture, doesn’t front a particular agenda and encourages the Christian to develop a conscientious belief system from their studies [in other words you explore and experience the truth personally – and don’t conform to the cookie-cutter mentality prevalent in cults]. Personal study tends to be self-directed – you analyze rather than absorbing like a typical PFAL student.
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doojable
Continuing on T-Bone's thought...
We always heard in school that you're never supposed to use a word to define in its own definition. Sadly, that is the end result of much of TWI's doctrine. They use their own definitions to define other things. It becomes intellectual incest. The not only lacked Biblical scholarship - they lacked any sort of scholarship at all.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Yeah...sign me up...is there any charge? I would love to learn how to have more harmony in my home and how to clear up apparent bible contradictions...
It's my understanding that God Hisself told VeePee Wormwille what should be taught in this class...do you have refreshments at break time?
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Sudo
Groucho,
Re:"..do you have refreshments at break time?"
Maybe some Kool-aid?
'Ya know.. I always LIVED for those break times though about all we ever got was weak coffee and carrot and celery sticks. But we could smell the coffee brewing about 30 minutes before break. No half and half for it though... got coffee creamer. And ranch dressing for carrots and celery. That was probably a Grace Bliss thingee.
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doojable
Sudo - that's only because I wasn't doing the refreshments for your class. I had it down to a science. Something sweet, something low calorie, some protein for those that came straight from work.
But I digress.....
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GrouchoMarxJr
You guys can poke fun if you want to...but I'm really looking forward to sitting through the class, just to see what Gawd will reveal to me...Can I take notes?...or should I save my questions till the end?
Is there assigned seating?...I want to sit in the front row so I can REALLY pay attention!...I hear that at one point Mr. Wormwille mentions that all the wimin in the kingdom belong to the king!...it's about time that the truth of his holy will be known again like it hasn't been known since 1975...I hear tell that some folks even start talking in a strange language...I think it's Aramaic but I'm not sure...Lo Shanta!...I was told that those words mean..."pass the drambuie"...Is that true?
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doojable
Hic
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dmiller
Freelady -- you're 100% correct that a TRUE CHRISTIAN would LOVE for folks to hear teachings.
And you're 100% correct that God is NOT selfish about keeping His Word hidden.
What you DO need to realize is that once twi enters the picture --
the dice are loaded, the cards are marked, and the dealer is crooked.
I say that with all the LOGITRMIM that I can muster.
:)
Like Chatty Kathy said -- be as anonymous as can be in your posts, because ---
even though twi no longer teaches pfal, I bet they still have the copyright for it.
I'm guessing about that one, I don't know, nor can I say for a sure thing.
Personally I wouldn't sit in, but for those who do ---
I'd hate to see twi get in the way of it!!
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