Many of us who were invoved in The Way have an exaggerated view of how effective Wierwille was at getting his message out. To us, The Way was the center of our universe, but the vast majority of people in this country, let alone the world, never heard of it. Sometimes I'm surprised when I mention that I was involved in The Way International and I'm greeted with the blank stare of incomprehension! I don't know how many people each of those who Wierwille plagiarized reached with their messages, but why assume that Wierwille was more effective just because you heard of Wierwille and not Stiles, Bullinger or Kenyon?
Another point is that I believe that most, if not all, of us who sat through PFAL and bought into what was taught, did so, at least in part due to Wierwille's credibility as an authority on the Bible. We believed his made up definitions of Greek words, accepted that there was an "old document" that said that illegitimate boys were bar-mitzvahed at 12 rather than 13, and allowed his views to dominate our thinking despite the lack of evidence, documentaion and simple logic. I submit that if most of us had known from the start that Wierwille was lying, his credibility would have been greatly diminished. To this day many hold beliefs based on what Wierwille taught while deluding themselves that they have actually done research to verify what was taught.
Most of it sucked but a few pieces weren't too bad.
If someone took one of my songs and made it a hit(Not very likely), I would be thrilled.
If they did so and claimed they had written the material, that would be wrong.
Sure, it would be great if lots of people got to hear it. It would still be wrong.
The "60's and '70's were laden with various radical groups that had specific agendas.
The Symbionese Liberation Army and The Black Panthers are two that come to mind.
These groups were willing to resort to violent, sometimes murderous actions to further their cause.
One could rationalize and say,"Yes, we robbed banks and murdered people but it was to further our cause."
The ends don't always justify the means. If you think Bullinger or Stiles or whoever had a valuable point to make that you would like to cite, do so and give credit where credit is appropriate.
It's just plain wrong (and sometimes illegal) to pretend someone elses work is your own no matter how much "good" might possibly come of it.
I think all of this started to hit me while taking one of my last pfal classes before the new class... I was sitting there in the back row trying to stay awake, or at least not let anyone see me fall asleep. I had my Companion Bible in front of me and started reading the notes next to the verses vp was reading - and it was almost verbatim. I thought that was strange, but in my sleep deprived state (I was working early every morning after working crew on the class) I figured it didn't matter too much.
I was talking to someone recently about weirwille's plagerism and they gave the same old "who cares its the word that matters" response. Then they said those other guys (Leonard, Kenyon, Bullinger, Stiles) didn't get their info. out as effectively as Weirwille anyway, so thank wierwille. I started googling these names and found that other folks have plagerized Kenyon. The Copelands teach similar points that stiles did. I found a lot on Word-Faith and realized those men did get their teachings out. Many big names today (joyce meyer, osteen, copelands, and more) teach what Kenyon taught. I found websites denouncing Kenyon's works. (nothing to do with wierwille either)
I just thought others out there might have been looking into this longer than I have. so maybe someone has more insights? (just throwing this out there)
Like who cares dude! Dr Weriwille stated many many times that he learned from these GREAT MEN (Living Victoriously 82) etc etc. Whats the big deal anyway with plagerizing. Dr. never took credit for certain materials expounded. Dr. Weriwlle alway gave these guys their just due. Where's the facts. the man tried to bring about certain truths and keys to spiritual psye, but the man just got caught up in bs . Dr. always gave Kenyon his just due unlike others. So just chill on the Dr. Weriwlle thing please he was a brillant man Craig I can say yeah he was nutless and a juggernutt coward to boot he took millions and was ghost ,gone ,ran, outa here etc... but Dr. Weriwille did stood his ground and tried to bring knowledge to help people .. I am Captain.
I more concerned about the fact these doctrines are everywhere, with different names, Wierwille was just one of many.
Bolshevik I see you point about doctrines and facts I am just amazed at people's hatred and malice at this site towards individuals who come here to try to get answers.
Bolshevik I see you point about doctrines and facts I am just amazed at people's hatred and malice at this site towards individuals who come here to try to get answers.
I wasn't picking up on hatred and malice, just Christians having concerned for other Christians and their practices.
[Those of us who mind being lied to and deceived care quite a bit.]
Dr Weriwille stated many many times that he learned from these GREAT MEN (Living Victoriously 82) etc etc.
["many many times" is a gross exagerration.
What he DID say many many times was how he dedicated his life to God and His Word,
and how God promised to teach him "like it hadn't been known since the First Century"
and how other Christians were ignorant and inferior.
A few side-comments that he learned some things from some guys falls far, far short
of giving DUE CREDIT, as in "this subject was taught by Professor Righteous, but we're
going beyond what he taught" or the like.
I noticed you didn't quote the page, just cited it. Are we supposed to believe there's
something relevant without a quote?]
Whats the big deal anyway with plagerizing.
Plagiarizing is LYING.
Plagiarizing is BREAKING THE LAW.
Plagiarizing is DECEIVING.
Plagiarizing is PUFFING ONESELF UP.
That's why everyone EXCEPT VPW DEFENDERS care when someone plagiarizes.]
Dr. never took credit for certain materials expounded. Dr. Weriwlle alway gave these guys their just due. Where's the facts.
[The facts are that vpw USUALLY took credit.
Check the introductions for the Orange and White Books.
I can repost them again if you like.
No mention of the works of others-even though both books were ENTIRELY
the works of others.
In the Orange Book, vpw says he threw away all his books other than the Bible.
That's the OPPOSITE of giving credit where credit is due.
In the White Book, early editions admitted there was an anonymous Christian who
put it together- and later editions say that VPW put it together.
That's the OPPOSITE of giving credit where credit is due.
I can repost them again if you like.
The FACTS are that vpw took entire books from others, jumbled the words,
subjects, or chapters around, or mixed in entire books from others,
and put his name on them, without crediting the original writers.
Like "Are the Dead Alive Now?" That's 2 of Bullinger's books put together.
ADAN mentions them not at all.
That's NOT giving just due.
And THAT'S a fact.
We can keep going...]
the man tried to bring about certain truths and keys to spiritual psye, but the man just got caught up in bs .
[He was caught up in bs because he was the one originating it. To a degree, he believed his own press.
And he was the one "writing the press releases."]
Dr. always gave Kenyon his just due unlike others.
[Kenyon ALSO was quoted without citation- in one case in the same chapter
where he was cited properly!
And a minute ago you claimed he "always gave these guys their just due",
now you're saying that giving his just due to Kenyon was "unlike others"....]
So just chill on the Dr. Weriwlle thing please
[i was chilled until you tried to rewrite history again. I find it tiresome, offensive,
and grossly deceptive.]
he was a brillant man
[He was brilliant in marketing and selling a product.
When it came to understanding the subjects he passed on, often he made avoidable mistakes
due to a LACK OF UNDERSTANDING THEM- which is how he ended up contradicting
himself from time to time.]
Craig I can say yeah he was nutless and a juggernutt coward to boot he took millions and was ghost ,gone ,ran, outa here etc...
[He was made twofold the child of hell his teacher was.]
but Dr. Weriwille did stood his ground and tried to bring knowledge to help people .. I am Captain.
[He was primarily about helping HIMSELF.
What is this "standing ground" business about?
Buying into his own version of events-that all Christians EXCEPT HIM were trying to eradicate
God's message or something?
Many people got useful knowledge. However, he never minded
passing along bs that served his purpose.
That's why he made a 180 on the tithe once it was coming to him,
and so on...]
Bolshevik I see you point about doctrines and facts I am just amazed at people's hatred and malice at this site towards individuals who come here to try to get answers.
No, you were trying to push an agenda and a point-of-view,
including "facts" that have been disproven already here-but you haven't taken the time to learn that.
And this "malice and hatred" thing is an exaggeration. What I am is bored more than anything.
And any negative emotion is not towards a poster- just towards his or her lies and deceptive doctrine.
"Try to get answers?"
No, you would have read enough to get some learning by now.
Here's an article on the Copeland's using Stiles' "breathing in" technique
this thread isn't about wierwille's plagerism being right or wrong. I was trying to take a step further back in time to the times of Kenyon. His life still impacts today.
Here's a link on E.W. Kenyon. He is accused of inserting metaphysical and christian science beliefs into christianity among other things. Kenneth Hagin Sr. is accused of plagerizing Kenyon.
TWI is not even a blip on any radar screen. We were duped and, as Oakspear said, it was the center of OUR world, but by no means was TWI anything great or widely known. Everyone seems to think they have the corner market on "the truth", whatever that is.
What we have to do is evaluate what's being taught, genuinely evaluate, study and discuss the salient points and come to our own conclusions. The folks that encourage such questioning, discussion and even debate, are the ones we can really learn from. We may change our minds, we may become more convinced of our position, but it's that effort we put into it ourselves, that helps us to be more comfortable with the beliefs we choose to subscribe to.
There may be some good, valid things taught in PFAL and there are some things that are taught that I do think are correct, but were extremely perverted...... like vee pee took something cogent and twisted or perverted it .... much like he taught: the value of the counterfeit increases according to how similar to the original that it is. He had some really good counterfeit teachings.
The key, then, is to get to the valid, true teaching and strip away the counterfeit aspects of what vee pee interjected into the lesson.
I just found myself listening to other ministers who I thought would have nothing to do with twi doctrines. Then I find out they learned from some of the same Wierwille did. My understanding is that vpw's Law of Believing is just a part of this New Age and Word-Faith movements.
True, Bolshevik, and it's found in many Pentecostal religions as well as "The Secret", "What the Bleep", "Transcendental Meditation", etc..... The thing is, a lot of those groups don't use the law of believing (the law of attraction, the power of positive thinking, whatever you want to call it) to trap, enslave and condemn folks. TWI does and so do some of the other groups. The way TWI teaches it, God is not part of the equation. They try to squeeze him into it, but he's not there, other than to obey our commands or slap us down if we do something wrong.
But there are groups who teach that in conjunction with a lot of other things and it's a positive thing the way they teach it. When bad things happen or things don't work out the way we think they should, they don't go accusing the person of being a screw up or failing God in some way. That's what I mean when I say vee pee perverted something that has the potential to be helpful for folks.
right, I'm also thinking they're dangerous too. (Benny Hinn being a more obvious example) They come from the same barrel wierwille did. I believe some are arguing Paula white, joyce meyer, osteen, (even oprah) teach this. Bad behavior stems from bad doctrine doesn't it?
I know I heard Oral Roberts name being thrown around growing up in twi. What other names don't I remember? These name along with Kenyon, Bullinger and Co. were used to magnify the correctness of Wierwille and twi. (who cares if he plagerized, if he plagerized the writings of wackos?)
I more concerned about the fact these doctrines are everywhere, with different names, Wierwille was just one of many.
These doctrines might be everywhere, but what made TWI unique was the way those scripture/doctrines were expounded upon. The way in which TWI expounded on these scriptures is/was unique to TWI, but then, you're going to find that in just about every charsimatic movement. For example some have found more insight and help understanding the law of believing through the Kenneth Hagin ministries (i.e. the Word/Faith movement) than they did in TWI, and they also think that those teaching were stolen by VPW.
Critics have claimed that Hagin never received any formal theological training, and they also allege that the bulk of his theological teachings were lifted verbatim from the writings of other authors, i.e. John A. MacMillan and E.W. Kenyon for example. Hagin's response was he had not plagiarized anyone, but his acknowledgment of MacMillan had been an oversight. He then implicitly claimed the plagiarism was proof his teaching and MacMillan's teaching were from God.
Author Judith Irene Matta, M.Th., has also accused Hagin of reviving the heresy of gnosticism. Matta asserts that Kenyon's word of faith movement has basically taken over the pentecostal churches and Christian television. ... The alleged heresy is, according to Matta, lifted verbatim from Kenyon's book.
All these accusations, a faulty doctorate, plagarism, etc. is not unique to VPW/TWI. Afterall, if you're teaching and expounding upon basically the same scriptures and the same doctrines as someone else but end up taking the $$$ and the people away from someone else's till, the same accusations would eventually be leveled at you.
All these accusations, a faulty doctorate, plagarism, etc. is not unique to VPW/TWI. Afterall, if you're teaching and expounding upon basically the same scriptures and the same doctrines as someone else but end up taking the $$$ and the people away from someone else's till, the same accusations would eventually be leveled at you.
Yes, they are not unique. Could you expound more upon this last paragraph?
I just found myself listening to other ministers who I thought would have nothing to do with twi doctrines. Then I find out they learned from some of the same Wierwille did. My understanding is that vpw's Law of Believing is just a part of this New Age and Word-Faith movements.
I've come to much the same conclusions.
Most of these people ripped off Kenyon's doctrines, and formed the "Word-Faith" movement,
usually while pretending Kenyon never existed.
That conclusion's pretty common around here, BTW, or at least not UNcommon.
Here's an article on the Copeland's using Stiles' "breathing in" technique
"Five Steps in Action form
1.Ask without fear, knowing that God said you would receive His Holy Spirit.
2.Speak no more English.
3.Come unto Jesus. Open your mouth wide and drink in the Holy Spirit, breathing in as deeply as possible. You are to know that at this moment you receive the Holy Spirit by faith. As you breathe in, you are being filled with the Spirit. "
(this is an occult technique in which the prana energy fills the air, nowhere does Scripture tell one to do this to receive the Holy Spirit ,who already lives inside all the believers. While I believe in a continual filling as the Scripture teaches, this is not what they are describing.1 Cor.12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." What Spirit than are they receiving if they breathe him in.)
[it needs to further be pointed out that this also is found in Oneness Pentecostalism. In J.E.Stiles booklet " Why receive the Holy Spirit and how to receive him" on p.21 states "Now as you open your mouth, and breath in, don't pray, don't talk don't say a single word, just breathe in deeply... If you will sit quietly for a time...just breathing in the breath of God, you certainly will feel a moving of the Spirit.. Just lift your voice and speak the sounds that seem easy to make,...After you have spoken for considerable time, stop and breathe deeply again and you will get a a fresh anointing.]
4."Raise your voice. Use your lips, tongue, and voice to speak out the praise in an unknown language as the Spirit gives you the utterance.
[Recently at John Hagee's Church Kenneth Copeland spoke explaining how his wife got filled with the Spirit "And the church Gloria came from, dear God. She was raised in a little church out in the country, they didn’t have a pastor half the time. Didn’t believe anything. She’d been saved and filled with the Holy Ghost 3 months before she ever heard the word new birth. She did not know what it was! "(Aug 18,1999 Hagess program on TBN) How is this possible in light of her booklet instructing others to be filled a certain way by asking specifically and breathing the Spirit it in. This shows these people are confused.
5.Allow the rivers of living water to flow from you with the greatest of freedom. You are magnifying God-extolling (praising enthusiastically) the Father God who is Love and offering up the praise of thanksgiving unto Him.
'Now that you have received the Holy Spirit, rely on the Word that Jesus spoke, "He shall remain with you forever."
(note: He will remain with you forever long before you did all this, if you received Christ the way the Bible teaches.
She goes on to say Jesus said the holy Spirit would be given to teach you, not just some things, but ALL the truth."
===============
I'm dubious about the leap they make about "prana energy."
I think Stiles' error was more about garbling his explanation rather than streamlining it.
(Eventually, vpw managed to streamline it from this version here.)
One irony with un-plagiarized material is that often someone doesn't try to
improve on the 1.0 version of an explanation, which means it could be explained better,
and the current form can lead to misunderstandings.
However, I do think this all shows Kenyon AND Stiles were both ripped off by more than just vpw.
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Oakspear
Many of us who were invoved in The Way have an exaggerated view of how effective Wierwille was at getting his message out. To us, The Way was the center of our universe, but the vast majority of people in this country, let alone the world, never heard of it. Sometimes I'm surprised when I mention that I was involved in The Way International and I'm greeted with the blank stare of incomprehension! I don't know how many people each of those who Wierwille plagiarized reached with their messages, but why assume that Wierwille was more effective just because you heard of Wierwille and not Stiles, Bullinger or Kenyon?
Another point is that I believe that most, if not all, of us who sat through PFAL and bought into what was taught, did so, at least in part due to Wierwille's credibility as an authority on the Bible. We believed his made up definitions of Greek words, accepted that there was an "old document" that said that illegitimate boys were bar-mitzvahed at 12 rather than 13, and allowed his views to dominate our thinking despite the lack of evidence, documentaion and simple logic. I submit that if most of us had known from the start that Wierwille was lying, his credibility would have been greatly diminished. To this day many hold beliefs based on what Wierwille taught while deluding themselves that they have actually done research to verify what was taught.
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waysider
It's old fashioned "rationalization".
Back in the '60's, I used to write music.
Most of it sucked but a few pieces weren't too bad.
If someone took one of my songs and made it a hit(Not very likely), I would be thrilled.
If they did so and claimed they had written the material, that would be wrong.
Sure, it would be great if lots of people got to hear it. It would still be wrong.
The "60's and '70's were laden with various radical groups that had specific agendas.
The Symbionese Liberation Army and The Black Panthers are two that come to mind.
These groups were willing to resort to violent, sometimes murderous actions to further their cause.
One could rationalize and say,"Yes, we robbed banks and murdered people but it was to further our cause."
The ends don't always justify the means. If you think Bullinger or Stiles or whoever had a valuable point to make that you would like to cite, do so and give credit where credit is appropriate.
It's just plain wrong (and sometimes illegal) to pretend someone elses work is your own no matter how much "good" might possibly come of it.
Just my opinion.
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JavaJane
I think all of this started to hit me while taking one of my last pfal classes before the new class... I was sitting there in the back row trying to stay awake, or at least not let anyone see me fall asleep. I had my Companion Bible in front of me and started reading the notes next to the verses vp was reading - and it was almost verbatim. I thought that was strange, but in my sleep deprived state (I was working early every morning after working crew on the class) I figured it didn't matter too much.
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Bolshevik
I was thinking I could leave twi and its doctrines behind.
I'm concerned that I'm going to have to know PFAL inside out just to avoid believing it again in another church.
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Captain Spiritural
Like who cares dude! Dr Weriwille stated many many times that he learned from these GREAT MEN (Living Victoriously 82) etc etc. Whats the big deal anyway with plagerizing. Dr. never took credit for certain materials expounded. Dr. Weriwlle alway gave these guys their just due. Where's the facts. the man tried to bring about certain truths and keys to spiritual psye, but the man just got caught up in bs . Dr. always gave Kenyon his just due unlike others. So just chill on the Dr. Weriwlle thing please he was a brillant man Craig I can say yeah he was nutless and a juggernutt coward to boot he took millions and was ghost ,gone ,ran, outa here etc... but Dr. Weriwille did stood his ground and tried to bring knowledge to help people .. I am Captain.
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Bolshevik
Captain,
I more concerned about the fact these doctrines are everywhere, with different names, Wierwille was just one of many.
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Captain Spiritural
Bolshevik I see you point about doctrines and facts I am just amazed at people's hatred and malice at this site towards individuals who come here to try to get answers.
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Bolshevik
I wasn't picking up on hatred and malice, just Christians having concerned for other Christians and their practices.
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JavaJane
But you've had a lifetime of experience living PFAL, right, Mr. B? Just pick out the good stuff and spit out the bad... Nothing wrong with that...
Just like with greasespot - you decide what's good and what's bad. No pressure.
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Bolshevik
baby out with the fish water
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WordWolf
No, you were trying to push an agenda and a point-of-view,
including "facts" that have been disproven already here-but you haven't taken the time to learn that.
And this "malice and hatred" thing is an exaggeration. What I am is bored more than anything.
And any negative emotion is not towards a poster- just towards his or her lies and deceptive doctrine.
"Try to get answers?"
No, you would have read enough to get some learning by now.
"Try to invent answers" would be more like it.
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Bolshevik
letusreason.org/wf21.htm
http://www.letusreason.org/wf21.htm
Here's an article on the Copeland's using Stiles' "breathing in" technique
this thread isn't about wierwille's plagerism being right or wrong. I was trying to take a step further back in time to the times of Kenyon. His life still impacts today.
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Bolshevik
http://www.victoryword.100megspop2.com/kenyondefense.html
Here's a link on E.W. Kenyon. He is accused of inserting metaphysical and christian science beliefs into christianity among other things. Kenneth Hagin Sr. is accused of plagerizing Kenyon.
http://www.watchman.org/profile/wordpro.htm
This one probably has nothing to do with the thread, just interesting
http://www.pilkingtonandsons.com/BullingerBooks.htm
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Belle
Bolshevik,
This is the best review of PFAL I've ever read: http://ourworld.cs.com/PFALREVIEW/.
TWI is not even a blip on any radar screen. We were duped and, as Oakspear said, it was the center of OUR world, but by no means was TWI anything great or widely known. Everyone seems to think they have the corner market on "the truth", whatever that is.
What we have to do is evaluate what's being taught, genuinely evaluate, study and discuss the salient points and come to our own conclusions. The folks that encourage such questioning, discussion and even debate, are the ones we can really learn from. We may change our minds, we may become more convinced of our position, but it's that effort we put into it ourselves, that helps us to be more comfortable with the beliefs we choose to subscribe to.
There may be some good, valid things taught in PFAL and there are some things that are taught that I do think are correct, but were extremely perverted...... like vee pee took something cogent and twisted or perverted it .... much like he taught: the value of the counterfeit increases according to how similar to the original that it is. He had some really good counterfeit teachings.
The key, then, is to get to the valid, true teaching and strip away the counterfeit aspects of what vee pee interjected into the lesson.
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Bolshevik
I just found myself listening to other ministers who I thought would have nothing to do with twi doctrines. Then I find out they learned from some of the same Wierwille did. My understanding is that vpw's Law of Believing is just a part of this New Age and Word-Faith movements.
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Belle
Here's an in depth look at The Blook Book that's phenomenal, imo.
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Bolshevik
Belle,
Thanks for the links! I never understood what the blue book was talking about. blah blah blah
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Belle
True, Bolshevik, and it's found in many Pentecostal religions as well as "The Secret", "What the Bleep", "Transcendental Meditation", etc..... The thing is, a lot of those groups don't use the law of believing (the law of attraction, the power of positive thinking, whatever you want to call it) to trap, enslave and condemn folks. TWI does and so do some of the other groups. The way TWI teaches it, God is not part of the equation. They try to squeeze him into it, but he's not there, other than to obey our commands or slap us down if we do something wrong.
But there are groups who teach that in conjunction with a lot of other things and it's a positive thing the way they teach it. When bad things happen or things don't work out the way we think they should, they don't go accusing the person of being a screw up or failing God in some way. That's what I mean when I say vee pee perverted something that has the potential to be helpful for folks.
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Bolshevik
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/hinn/general.htm
right, I'm also thinking they're dangerous too. (Benny Hinn being a more obvious example) They come from the same barrel wierwille did. I believe some are arguing Paula white, joyce meyer, osteen, (even oprah) teach this. Bad behavior stems from bad doctrine doesn't it?
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Bolshevik
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/ishealing01.htm
I know I heard Oral Roberts name being thrown around growing up in twi. What other names don't I remember? These name along with Kenyon, Bullinger and Co. were used to magnify the correctness of Wierwille and twi. (who cares if he plagerized, if he plagerized the writings of wackos?)
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What The Hey
These doctrines might be everywhere, but what made TWI unique was the way those scripture/doctrines were expounded upon. The way in which TWI expounded on these scriptures is/was unique to TWI, but then, you're going to find that in just about every charsimatic movement. For example some have found more insight and help understanding the law of believing through the Kenneth Hagin ministries (i.e. the Word/Faith movement) than they did in TWI, and they also think that those teaching were stolen by VPW.
Critics have claimed that Hagin never received any formal theological training, and they also allege that the bulk of his theological teachings were lifted verbatim from the writings of other authors, i.e. John A. MacMillan and E.W. Kenyon for example. Hagin's response was he had not plagiarized anyone, but his acknowledgment of MacMillan had been an oversight. He then implicitly claimed the plagiarism was proof his teaching and MacMillan's teaching were from God.
Author Judith Irene Matta, M.Th., has also accused Hagin of reviving the heresy of gnosticism. Matta asserts that Kenyon's word of faith movement has basically taken over the pentecostal churches and Christian television. ... The alleged heresy is, according to Matta, lifted verbatim from Kenyon's book.
All these accusations, a faulty doctorate, plagarism, etc. is not unique to VPW/TWI. Afterall, if you're teaching and expounding upon basically the same scriptures and the same doctrines as someone else but end up taking the $$$ and the people away from someone else's till, the same accusations would eventually be leveled at you.
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Bolshevik
Yes, they are not unique. Could you expound more upon this last paragraph?
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WordWolf
I've come to much the same conclusions.
Most of these people ripped off Kenyon's doctrines, and formed the "Word-Faith" movement,
usually while pretending Kenyon never existed.
That conclusion's pretty common around here, BTW, or at least not UNcommon.
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WordWolf
"Five Steps in Action form
1.Ask without fear, knowing that God said you would receive His Holy Spirit.
2.Speak no more English.
3.Come unto Jesus. Open your mouth wide and drink in the Holy Spirit, breathing in as deeply as possible. You are to know that at this moment you receive the Holy Spirit by faith. As you breathe in, you are being filled with the Spirit. "
(this is an occult technique in which the prana energy fills the air, nowhere does Scripture tell one to do this to receive the Holy Spirit ,who already lives inside all the believers. While I believe in a continual filling as the Scripture teaches, this is not what they are describing.1 Cor.12:13 "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit." What Spirit than are they receiving if they breathe him in.)
[it needs to further be pointed out that this also is found in Oneness Pentecostalism. In J.E.Stiles booklet " Why receive the Holy Spirit and how to receive him" on p.21 states "Now as you open your mouth, and breath in, don't pray, don't talk don't say a single word, just breathe in deeply... If you will sit quietly for a time...just breathing in the breath of God, you certainly will feel a moving of the Spirit.. Just lift your voice and speak the sounds that seem easy to make,...After you have spoken for considerable time, stop and breathe deeply again and you will get a a fresh anointing.]
4."Raise your voice. Use your lips, tongue, and voice to speak out the praise in an unknown language as the Spirit gives you the utterance.
[Recently at John Hagee's Church Kenneth Copeland spoke explaining how his wife got filled with the Spirit "And the church Gloria came from, dear God. She was raised in a little church out in the country, they didn’t have a pastor half the time. Didn’t believe anything. She’d been saved and filled with the Holy Ghost 3 months before she ever heard the word new birth. She did not know what it was! "(Aug 18,1999 Hagess program on TBN) How is this possible in light of her booklet instructing others to be filled a certain way by asking specifically and breathing the Spirit it in. This shows these people are confused.
5.Allow the rivers of living water to flow from you with the greatest of freedom. You are magnifying God-extolling (praising enthusiastically) the Father God who is Love and offering up the praise of thanksgiving unto Him.
'Now that you have received the Holy Spirit, rely on the Word that Jesus spoke, "He shall remain with you forever."
(note: He will remain with you forever long before you did all this, if you received Christ the way the Bible teaches.
She goes on to say Jesus said the holy Spirit would be given to teach you, not just some things, but ALL the truth."
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I'm dubious about the leap they make about "prana energy."
I think Stiles' error was more about garbling his explanation rather than streamlining it.
(Eventually, vpw managed to streamline it from this version here.)
One irony with un-plagiarized material is that often someone doesn't try to
improve on the 1.0 version of an explanation, which means it could be explained better,
and the current form can lead to misunderstandings.
However, I do think this all shows Kenyon AND Stiles were both ripped off by more than just vpw.
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
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