In the real world it wouldn't be have to be. I just wanted to verify something. Many people have said TWI should have done something. TWI claims their hands are tied because the can't use ABS. My belief is if they had asked, many would be willing to help just because they love the women.
I do not believe VPW died destitute. After every other way he manipulated the bible to his advantage and personal agenda, I would assume, financially, he got plenty.
Personally, I would not contribute....I have my own family members to think of first.
For those who knew her personally, perhaps TWI's involvement is irrelevent.
I didn't know her personally, so yes TWI is THE factor.
Like many people here at GSC I gave many thousand$ over the years, even when people in my own family had genuine need. What was I thinking? What was God thinking? What does the Word say?
I wish for her and her family God's best.
My bet is that her 'meager' savings are much greater than mine.
I wish I could have provided my mother with some of the 'perks' Mrs. W. has had over the years.
PS-I accept responsibility for my poor financial descisions {ie STUPIDITY] lest anyone think that I am stuck in 'victimization mode'.
Let me tell you a story. When we were in residence, a nice lady who had been dropped from Corps (several years earlier) sent us a sizable check to be used as sponsorship. We were promptly told to send it back, along with a letter describing how our spiritual future would be poisoned by accepting money from such an infidel. No kidding.
Likewise, gifts sent to us from skeptical relatives, etc, always had to be sent back.
After our own dismissal, we sent a box with snack-food, school supplies, and shoes (which we knew their kids needed) to a family still in residence. It was sent back to us with no explanation. But we knew they were simply following orders.
I'm sure the same would happen if a bunch of us ex-way folks started sending money for Mrs. Wierwille.
Her family - the innies and the outies - will make sure she's OK, I think.
I know she did a lot of good for a lot of people. But I also have to wonder how much influence she chose NOT to use on Dr. W, regarding the destructive and hurtful things he did. GS has already discussed this issue.
My point is #1 Our money to her would not be accepted, or at least not used in the way it was intended, simply because of the source. And #2 It is weird to send money to someone who may have been key to harming so many lives.
If someone (trustworthy) had walked up to me and said, "Could you spare $5 to help Mrs. Weirwille pay for her medical expenses" then I might consider it.
I wouldn't give money to TWI to look over her, and I don't feel an obligation to help her. As others have mentioned, I will have my own relatives to look after, and since my parents have given so much money to TWI rather than saving it for the future, I'll likely have to care for them when they get old too.
I definitely feel bad for the state she is in, and for the family trying to care for her. However, I don't think I could help much or that I really should help much.
She is in a nursing home,which I am sure is licensed and regulated by the state of Ohio...Regardless of her financial situation,by law,she should recieve proper medication,physical care including nursing and doctor visits,meals,cleaning etc...I'm sure there are no "penthouse suites" or third class rooms at the nursing home where she resides...
As far as I can tell,contributions to a Mrs. Wierwille fund would only aid in offsetting the financial burden to either
The Way International
The State of Ohio
the Wierwille children,of whom Sarah G. is the Power of attorney..
I see very little probability that any contributions to her fund will affect the quality of her life or care...
The crux of this issue is this: TWI is morally, ethically and spiritually responsible for the care of Mrs. Wierwille. The past and current leadership (BOT/BOD whatever you want to call them) knew and acknowledged that they were to care for her until her death.
Now that things have gone to hell in a handbasket they have decided to hide behind the skirts of the IRS, and shirk the responsibility that goes with the "perks" of their jobs.
In my opinion, it is not right for the current president of twi to be living in her own home surrounded by the things she is familiar with and loves (including the in-ground swimming pool) while Dorothea Wierwille is housed in a very small and modest nursing home.
If they had an ounce of the genuine love of God in their hearts they would have kept her in her own home cared for 24 hours a day by trained medical professionals, even if the bod had to sell some of their personal assets to do so.
That is no longer an option, but TWI could have and should have paid for her care in a 24 hour
alzheimer's care unit in a nursing home.
To my knowledge no member of the Wierwille family has ever "offered" to set up any sort of fund towards the care of their mother, neither have any member of the Wierwille family solicited funds from others regarding the care of their mother.
I believe there are a few private individuals not related to the family that have pursued such a fund type of thing. One man in particualr is a man that loves Dorothea and believes that a terrible wrong has been done to her. That is an admirable trait, a man that sees a wrong and wants to right it.
It is a moot discussion to think that TWI would ever have made such a fund. For an organization supposedly founded on God's Will, they have neither heart or conscience.
Radar
[This message was edited by Radar O'Reilly on January 16, 2004 at 13:08.]
Radar,just a little side note...I don't know Mrs. W.'s condition,but it can be unsafe for a Alzheimer's patient to live in their own private home,besides for medical reasons....Patients often lose the concept of time and day or night,and have been known to wander off and/or hurt themselves...Her private home my not be safety equipped like that of a nursing facility...
enough trouble managing care for my aging parents. Besides TWI has gotten enough of my money and while its unfortunate that it appears that they have given Mrs. W the boot it still
I like Mrs. W and do not think she was spurring on the movement to hurt people. I see her as a victim, not a "saint" (in the way the catholics think) but not a horror deserving what you described.
However, you are entitled to your opinion. Lord knows I have contempt for Vic and some people defend him.
I agree with Diazbro.
Dorothy Thompson:
Fear grows in darkness; if you think there's a bogeyman around, turn on the light.
As far as VPW leaving any significant amount of money to his wife, please look at the hand written note on that one document over on JP?s webste.
Now what VPW did to provide for his widow was sign everything over and then took the word of those that were put in charge for her security. The massive accounts still in TWI?s BOT/BOD?s control are the vast holdings of VPW, perhaps the only real growth in those accounts has come from the stock market and other investments made with that money.
I would venture to say that everything done while LCM was president never brought in the revenue$ and it was VPW that taught the BOT/BOD to have the money to run for months without income!
When it comes right down to it, the money they control most likely is the money they were left with from the founder, at least there is a very good chance that is where the majority came from. There and the selling off of property and holdings acquired under the original BOT.
So I would bet that the money they are denying to pay out for Mrs.W?s care, while hiding behind their lawyers, is money VPW banked!
And JT, if it were any one other than TWI and money was needed, yes I would give.
God Bless America; SIZE>
Grizz SIZE>
[This message was edited by Grizzy on January 16, 2004 at 19:43.]
She should be made aware of her part in the suffering and wasted lives caused by the Way.
VPW has been died for almost 20 years and there are people who still carry his lie's as if it were Gods truth and they will die in their delusion.
Some people say what is the harm if people believe what the Way taught. No harm just unrecoverable loss of the most providential gift a man bears, his time on this earth.
Her efforts made possible yet another burden to be laid upon the backs or Gods people. As a direct result of her actions a portion of Gods inheritance will not walk on holy ground they will drag it anchored to their necks until God unlocks the chains.
I am sorry but that is how I feel about the Way and all religion. May God have mercy on her soul.
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oldiesman
Why must it be run by TWI, why not run by the Wierwille's themselves? I would contribute to that, sure.
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JustThinking
Oldies,
In the real world it wouldn't be have to be. I just wanted to verify something. Many people have said TWI should have done something. TWI claims their hands are tied because the can't use ABS. My belief is if they had asked, many would be willing to help just because they love the women.
So, just proving a theory.
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ItsStillTheWord
My choice is Absolutely NOT.
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JustThinking
Is it because of TWI or just another reason?
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ItsStillTheWord
Why should I?
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JustThinking
ISTW,
So TWI's involvement would be irrelevent? You wouldn't either way.
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karmicdebt
I do not believe VPW died destitute. After every other way he manipulated the bible to his advantage and personal agenda, I would assume, financially, he got plenty.
Personally, I would not contribute....I have my own family members to think of first.
Why are you asking?
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JustThinking
Karmic,
Because a lot of folks seem to think that if TWI had asked, many people would have pitched in to help. Just taking a poll to see if it's true.
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ItsStillTheWord
JT,
For those who knew her personally, perhaps TWI's involvement is irrelevent.
I didn't know her personally, so yes TWI is THE factor.
Like many people here at GSC I gave many thousand$ over the years, even when people in my own family had genuine need. What was I thinking? What was God thinking? What does the Word say?
I wish for her and her family God's best.
My bet is that her 'meager' savings are much greater than mine.
I wish I could have provided my mother with some of the 'perks' Mrs. W. has had over the years.
PS-I accept responsibility for my poor financial descisions {ie STUPIDITY] lest anyone think that I am stuck in 'victimization mode'.
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Schwaigers
Let me tell you a story. When we were in residence, a nice lady who had been dropped from Corps (several years earlier) sent us a sizable check to be used as sponsorship. We were promptly told to send it back, along with a letter describing how our spiritual future would be poisoned by accepting money from such an infidel. No kidding.
Likewise, gifts sent to us from skeptical relatives, etc, always had to be sent back.
After our own dismissal, we sent a box with snack-food, school supplies, and shoes (which we knew their kids needed) to a family still in residence. It was sent back to us with no explanation. But we knew they were simply following orders.
I'm sure the same would happen if a bunch of us ex-way folks started sending money for Mrs. Wierwille.
Her family - the innies and the outies - will make sure she's OK, I think.
I know she did a lot of good for a lot of people. But I also have to wonder how much influence she chose NOT to use on Dr. W, regarding the destructive and hurtful things he did. GS has already discussed this issue.
My point is #1 Our money to her would not be accepted, or at least not used in the way it was intended, simply because of the source. And #2 It is weird to send money to someone who may have been key to harming so many lives.
Just an opinion. -Pat
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Mister P-Mosh
If someone (trustworthy) had walked up to me and said, "Could you spare $5 to help Mrs. Weirwille pay for her medical expenses" then I might consider it.
I wouldn't give money to TWI to look over her, and I don't feel an obligation to help her. As others have mentioned, I will have my own relatives to look after, and since my parents have given so much money to TWI rather than saving it for the future, I'll likely have to care for them when they get old too.
I definitely feel bad for the state she is in, and for the family trying to care for her. However, I don't think I could help much or that I really should help much.
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simonzelotes
She is in a nursing home,which I am sure is licensed and regulated by the state of Ohio...Regardless of her financial situation,by law,she should recieve proper medication,physical care including nursing and doctor visits,meals,cleaning etc...I'm sure there are no "penthouse suites" or third class rooms at the nursing home where she resides...
As far as I can tell,contributions to a Mrs. Wierwille fund would only aid in offsetting the financial burden to either
The Way International
The State of Ohio
the Wierwille children,of whom Sarah G. is the Power of attorney..
I see very little probability that any contributions to her fund will affect the quality of her life or care...
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Radar OReilly
JT,
The crux of this issue is this: TWI is morally, ethically and spiritually responsible for the care of Mrs. Wierwille. The past and current leadership (BOT/BOD whatever you want to call them) knew and acknowledged that they were to care for her until her death.
Now that things have gone to hell in a handbasket they have decided to hide behind the skirts of the IRS, and shirk the responsibility that goes with the "perks" of their jobs.
In my opinion, it is not right for the current president of twi to be living in her own home surrounded by the things she is familiar with and loves (including the in-ground swimming pool) while Dorothea Wierwille is housed in a very small and modest nursing home.
If they had an ounce of the genuine love of God in their hearts they would have kept her in her own home cared for 24 hours a day by trained medical professionals, even if the bod had to sell some of their personal assets to do so.
That is no longer an option, but TWI could have and should have paid for her care in a 24 hour
alzheimer's care unit in a nursing home.
To my knowledge no member of the Wierwille family has ever "offered" to set up any sort of fund towards the care of their mother, neither have any member of the Wierwille family solicited funds from others regarding the care of their mother.
I believe there are a few private individuals not related to the family that have pursued such a fund type of thing. One man in particualr is a man that loves Dorothea and believes that a terrible wrong has been done to her. That is an admirable trait, a man that sees a wrong and wants to right it.
It is a moot discussion to think that TWI would ever have made such a fund. For an organization supposedly founded on God's Will, they have neither heart or conscience.
Radar
[This message was edited by Radar O'Reilly on January 16, 2004 at 13:08.]
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simonzelotes
Radar,just a little side note...I don't know Mrs. W.'s condition,but it can be unsafe for a Alzheimer's patient to live in their own private home,besides for medical reasons....Patients often lose the concept of time and day or night,and have been known to wander off and/or hurt themselves...Her private home my not be safety equipped like that of a nursing facility...
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diazbro
No I would not. I wish her well but I have
enough trouble managing care for my aging parents. Besides TWI has gotten enough of my money and while its unfortunate that it appears that they have given Mrs. W the boot it still
doesn't change the fact that she lived off
of my money already as have many way leaders.
In fact anyone who ever tithed has supported
Way leaders and has enabled it to thrive and
prosper financially. VPW died a rich man and
its surprising that he didn't take steps to
insulate his family from the possible future
hostile action from the trustees. If one
believes the POP document then one would have
thought that he would have made a move to
take care of things.
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excathedra
you might get in trouble you might get in trouble. some viewpoints not allowed here.
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excathedra
plus can you really wish that on ANYONE ?????
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Dot Matrix
Gosh Early
I like Mrs. W and do not think she was spurring on the movement to hurt people. I see her as a victim, not a "saint" (in the way the catholics think) but not a horror deserving what you described.
However, you are entitled to your opinion. Lord knows I have contempt for Vic and some people defend him.
I agree with Diazbro.
Dorothy Thompson:
Fear grows in darkness; if you think there's a bogeyman around, turn on the light.
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Grizzy
As far as VPW leaving any significant amount of money to his wife, please look at the hand written note on that one document over on JP?s webste.
Now what VPW did to provide for his widow was sign everything over and then took the word of those that were put in charge for her security. The massive accounts still in TWI?s BOT/BOD?s control are the vast holdings of VPW, perhaps the only real growth in those accounts has come from the stock market and other investments made with that money.
I would venture to say that everything done while LCM was president never brought in the revenue$ and it was VPW that taught the BOT/BOD to have the money to run for months without income!
When it comes right down to it, the money they control most likely is the money they were left with from the founder, at least there is a very good chance that is where the majority came from. There and the selling off of property and holdings acquired under the original BOT.
So I would bet that the money they are denying to pay out for Mrs.W?s care, while hiding behind their lawyers, is money VPW banked!
And JT, if it were any one other than TWI and money was needed, yes I would give.
God Bless America; SIZE>
Grizz SIZE>
[This message was edited by Grizzy on January 16, 2004 at 19:43.]
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early2it
ExC,
She should be made aware of her part in the suffering and wasted lives caused by the Way.
VPW has been died for almost 20 years and there are people who still carry his lie's as if it were Gods truth and they will die in their delusion.
Some people say what is the harm if people believe what the Way taught. No harm just unrecoverable loss of the most providential gift a man bears, his time on this earth.
Her efforts made possible yet another burden to be laid upon the backs or Gods people. As a direct result of her actions a portion of Gods inheritance will not walk on holy ground they will drag it anchored to their necks until God unlocks the chains.
I am sorry but that is how I feel about the Way and all religion. May God have mercy on her soul.
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excathedra
it's too late, early. she is not (as i understand) mentally able
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Ginger Tea
By now, her social security, supplimental, whathaveyou ~ have kicked in.
Worry about your own lives and parents, is best I can say ~ and NOT feel bad.
Finance is a balancing act anyway ~ too much, you lose this ~ too little, you gain something else.
Leave these people ALONE!
If you care, wonder how to make the caregivers feel appreciated...that's it!
inho.
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excathedra
hi my friend ginge
ps early i don't think we should feel sorry for how we feel. i know that's an "expression" but i still mean it
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early2it
Thats to bad. If she was and could speak up against the Way It might come to an end.
But you gotta figure that is what you get from a lifetime of PFAL, WAP and the Way teachings mental inability.
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