Pipes, you make some pretty harsh accusations. Folks here are trying to get to the bottom of things. To give everybody the collective finger, even those fighting to get to the bottom of this mess is a shame.
People are worth fighting for, this is a place that needs fighting for....I wish that you could see the worth of both to the point of being willing to get to the truth of the matter.
I don't stay away from the mall simply because I don't like one of the stores there... I just stay out of that store... but that's just me...
I don't think folks are any different here than anywhere else... us folks who frequent the GSC might have a higher emotional level than other places where humans gather given that most all of us were involved in a cult that primarily used emotional manipulation and therefore are more "on guard"... I don't know... there are places I don't go here because I don't get any particular enjoyment out of them, there are posters I might choose not to read because I simply don't want to, but there's enough variety in both posts and posters that I can always find something I enjoy... and enough variety in posts and posters that I like coming around.
I don't know anything about any of this... I just figure people are people, everywhere... here on the net, live and in person...
...I'm still trying to figure out why either of these threads are in the "About the Way" section...
I think the world of your Mrs. and I've enjoyed my communications with her.
But frankly, when you speak of Middle School games and then go all cryptic in your posts, well, I find I don't have a lot of patience. Either plainly say who did what, and who accused who, and what the heck all this muckety-muck is about, or say nothing. All Mrs.B's original post here did was stir the controversy.
I'm terribly sorry if you and she got caught in the middle of some idiot's games, I truly am!!!! Unfortunately you would not be the first, and even worse, probably not the last. I would hope you could both rise above the petty stuff and keep posting... you both have things to contribute that others should hear. We don't want to see you go because someone else is being stupid.
There is more middle school drama at this site than most middle schools could muster.
Oh I don't know about that...a middle school can muster quite the bushel of drama just ask my 12 year old. The funny thing is that I can't keep up with the drama here any better than I can keep up with her drama...oh well. I just hope and pray that all of you, adults and children alike manage to work it all out before someone loses an eye.
Highway, thanks for the heart. I've not been attacked nor hurt here. I'm out here for my wife, whom I cherish. I'm not going to add any more drama. Middle school was a LONG time ago and I don't have the energy nor interest for drama.
There are GOOD folks who post frequently here. There are some of the other variety here, too.
A month or so ago, I bade Greasespot my farewell. I acknowledge the "Good riddance" cries and raise my glass to you all, my detractors and dear friends alike.
I emerge this one time only to speak up for my very dear friend Pipes. I have known her for some time now and I can assure you that if she is anything she is unswervingly truthful. She has a tender and pure heart. She would never seek to hurt anyone - or allow anyone to hurt someone she loves in a secret forum by foul and mean spirited "cattiness" and gossip, especially when that person is unaware of what is happening and cannot speak for him/herself.
No one ever sent around or (to my knowledge) even threatened to spread a certain email. The only recipients of that email were Pawtucket and the person the email was about. Later my husband and I requested a copy of the email; Pawtucket made reference to the email in a pm to my husband.
I don't get it, why cast a bomb like Pipe's CHEAP SHOT at Paw if you are not gonna stick around to read, verify, or hear disputing comments. Ya know, 98% of us, including me, would never have even known she, her husband, or friends, were somehow caught up iin this if SHE had not posted it. Their names were never mentioned until Pipe's posts, which she saw fit to put in two different places.
In contrast, Freeatlast was quite upright in not identifying the issue that affected her directly. She only wanted to say hi and goodbye to those she has found a fondness for here. It was a very mature and healthy management of the conflict she endured.
The Cafe's primary purpose is to provide an access point of information to people who have been affected by TWI, and at that it does quite well. Perhaps it would do us all well to realize it is not the responsibility of the moderators to heal personal conflicts, soothe hurt feelings, repair broken relationships between posters or listen to broken love affairs. It is beyond me why anyone would submit to Paw or the moderators any of this information.
The Cafe's purpose is not EVEN to provide a social gathering place for those of us who enjoy the patter in chat, the battles of politaks, the laughs in silly or the uplifting of the prayer forum.....etc. If we find these things here anyway, great! For myself, I enjoy the socializing I find amongst people with a shared although distant, past. I realize however, this is not the main purpose of this site, and therefore is not a responsibility of the moderators to provide. If a conflict arises betwixt me and another in those venues, why would I bring the mods into it? I certainly would not be so presumptuous as to personally attack them if they chose to get involved anyway.
...I'm still trying to figure out why either of these threads are in the "About the Way" section...
Tom - I think I made a mistake I just posted from where I was and didn't even realize I was in about the way. Sorry
Hap - all good points. Finger pointing isn't going to solve anything and as dooj stated neither will a forum. Lies were perpetrated people were used and chaos insued. It's not normal life but there are those that get their jollies in seeing others in conflict. I don't know if we can attribute that alone to the events of this week but we can sure put that as one of the causes. All in all the most important thing is communication, I will tell someone how it is and what I think, but when I am cut off unable to do that and am forced to allow people to believe a lie perpetrated about me, well I find that maybe the association isn't healthy. Open communication in all conflict is necessary.
I know this is vague to you but I think if we can learn anything from the events that effected some of us this week is that it is important to hear each other out. Get all sides of a story before a judgement is made and then as adults sort through the process and quit the finger pointing. Another lesson was that you just can't go on hearsay, you have to get the facts.
So if you all can learn anything from my experiences this week it is just that. lol. (((((Grease Spotters)))))
No one ever sent around or (to my knowledge) even threatened to spread a certain email. The only recipients of that email were Pawtucket and the person the email was about. Later my husband and I requested a copy of the email; Pawtucket made reference to the email in a pm to my husband.
I will never again post at GSC nor will I be answering pm-s. Folks who know me have my phone numbers and my email addresses.
It is TWI all over again and I want no part of it.
I have no desire to discuss with anyone (except maybe certain friends) this web of mass confusion and false accusations. I look forward to the day, all things are revealed clearly.
I hope the friends I have made here will at least consider that at least some of my words hold weight.
Pipes,
I have no idea what's going on. It is not my business. Your words do carry weight with me, though. I consider you a friend. You do not deserve to be treated badly by anyone.
I truly hope this gets ironed out in a positive way for everyone concerned. I love you all dearly.
I stated in my previous post that it was my last. Obviously it wasn't because I am posting again.
I hope and believe my motives in posting are to shed a little light regarding any current gossip, to clarify part of the reason I have expressed what I have expressed, and to get people to think outside and beyond group think.
The following posts explain part of the reason for my response(s) in regard to the recent churlish and paranoid character assassination that took place in another forum and then spilled over into the public GSC forum.
I am dividing what would be one long post into separate posts to make for a more conducive reading format.
These posts contain only a small tip of an iceberg.
In December I had an unusual cyber reunion on GSC with a man with whom I had been on the WOW field some 26 years ago. As the scenario of this reunion played out Pawtucket warned me that this man was posing as someone else, that I had been bated, that this man was not to be trusted and was liar.
Due to the circumstances surrounding this cyber reunion, I felt deeply violated based on Pawtucket's appraisal and information regarding this individual.
The same day that Paw revealed to me his assessment of this individual, I learned that law enforcement had discovered that someone I knew who had recently been murdered in the city where I live, was murdered by someone posing to be someone else.
If what Paw stated was true (that my WOW brother whom I had the cyber reunion with was posing as someone else, was a liar, was not to be trusted), I was deeply concerned.
My WOW brother had my full name, the city where I lived, both my phone numbers, and he lived about 45 minutes from my home.
If he was the pervert/psycho that I had been led to believe, my family could be in danger. I do not believe that was an over reaction, but a normal response to the circumstances.
After discussing the situation with my husband , I contacted my brother in law who is in law enforcement. I paid for a criminal background check. My family was instructed to make sure all doors remained locked and if any unknown or suspicious characters were hanging around to make a phone call.
My point in explaining all this in this post is that if anyone had a legitimate cause to fully investigate this alleged psycho, it was me and my husband. My family could have been in very real physical danger.
The criminal background check came up clean. I let Paw know the results of the criminal background check.
In the meantime I spent about 3 days reading every post this person had posted from years back (that could be viewed) on GSC. I endeavored to stay objective through this investigation. I needed to get a feel for this alleged pervert that I might be dealing with. Again, I do not believe this was an over reaction but a logical course of action based on what Paw had revealed to me regarding this person.
After reading every post I could find, my assessment of this individual was that this person spoke his mind, liked to cuss some, sometimes came across brash.....but also that he wasn't a liar and didn't like perverts. Still I was very cautious, preparing myself if he might call or appear at our home.
A few days later the alleged psycho called me. I was with my husband when the phone call came through. My heart quickened; I had some fear. I took the call.
At that time I did not reveal to my WOW brother (the alleged bater, liar, deceiver, etc.) any of the scenario I had been through the previous 6 days. Psychos/liars are good at what they do and I wasn't sure who/what I was dealing with.
(I'm trying to enter these as separate posts, but my 2nd post ended up on my first post. So, if it alls end up together...oh well.)
Over the course of the next 2(?) weeks my WOW brother and I communicated. He began to share his story. I revealed to him the scenario that had played out and Paw's accusations. My husband and I had supper with him.
There was a legitimate technological explanation regarding Paw's (incorrect) assessment for Paw to think that my WOW brother was posing as another poster. I presented this explanation to Paw.
Two of Paw's statements to me in response to my explanation were: "There can be no other explanation" and "He looks for people like you." It appeared to me that Pawtucket was unwilling to consider that he might be wrong regarding his accusation. Paw came across brash to me and I admit, I responded brashly to him. At that point I wrote Pawtucket that I no longer wanted to pm about it.
As of a week or so ago, as far as I can tell, Paw still stands by his accusation from December.
My problem is not that Paw did not believe me. He had reason to believe what he did, and I understand that.
What bothers me is when an expert/authority in a field will not consider that maybe, perhaps s/he might have assessed something incorrectly after being given a legitimate possible explanation regarding an assessment/accusation.
To my knowledge, Pawtucket was not present during a recent character assassination of my WOW brother which took place in another forum, but I do feel Pawtucket's appraisal toward the accused had influence in the assassination. Also, the accused had no way to defend himself.
Other things played into this assassination, some of which were actually brought about by the accused. Suppressed emotional responses are rarely neat and tidy. GSC has plenty proof of that.
I believe the character assassination that took place in the other forum and then spilled over onto the GSC board was unjust and wrong.
From mine and my husband's 3-D current, real-life relationship with my WOW brother, we feel he is one of the most honest people we know.
I am not trying to come across that I am some righteous individual above reproach. I am not. Neither is any other person involved in this soap opera fiasco.
I hope and want to believe that no one (including myself) maliciously and/or intentionally accused and/or lied. Emotions were running high through the domino of events.
(After reading through some of the responses on this thread, perhaps I should post the false accusations made against me and my husband and my WOW brother and his friend that I mention in my initial post on this thread. I wasn't going to, but maybe I'll add that at the end of my planned responses here.)
(Edited to try to get my next post as a next post. <_< )
I left TWI about 1-1/2 years ago after 28 years of involvement. GSC provided me a place to decompress after leaving TWI and a place to reconnect with friends and make new friends. For that I am thankful.
I am also thankful for the good experiences I had while in TWI.
One of GSC's characteristics is its stands against the hypocrisy of TWI?
I think some people would agree that systems/organizations have a way of becoming that which they stand against, oftentimes only to protect their agenda(s)?
We all came/come out of group think - a learned response. Everyone who lives in a community is exposed and experiences some level of group think.
We all know our societies and communities need to remember and apply deep thought and consideration before jumping to conclusive judgments and making accusations and absolute assessments, and to not allow a system to become our identity.
Interestingly toward the end of April I began reading a book, I See Satan Fall Like Lightening by Rene Girard, a French anthropologist, as part of a book study with some other folks. (Totally non Way related.)
Little did I know that I would be in a thicket (on a very small scale) experiencing the very concepts/actions/observations that this book addresses and dissects.
I have thought about the concepts presented in this book in light of TWI, in light of accusations toward TWI, in light of this recent drama that played out in my personal life, and in light of group think and communities in general.
My next post contains a few quotes from this book as food for thought.
(Okay, one more time....I'll try to enter this post as a separate post. I really thought it might help reading all this if it were divided up. That is, if anybody takes the time to read all of it. But my consecutive posts want to attach to my previous posts.)
Following are a few quotes simply as food for thought, including food for thought for myself. If you wish, take out the word "satan" and simply substitute evil, accusations, or some other similar word.
From the book, I See Satan Fall Like Lightening:
"(footnote: 'Single victim mechanism' is a translation of the French mecanisme victimaire. It refers to the unconscious snowballing process that reaches a point of crisis and ends the disorder of human rivalries and scandals by expelling or lynching a victim. It could, of course , select more than one victim, perhaps a minority group, foreigners, et al., but for purposes of analysis and discussion Girard wishes to keep a clear focus on the simplest instance of the mechanism....)"
"....community reestablishes its unity against a single victim who becomes the supreme scandal because everyone, in a mimetic fervor, holds this one to be guilty. Satan is the violent contagion that persuades the entire community, which has become unanimous, that this guilt is real. He owes one of his most ancient and traditional names to this art of persuasion. He is the accuser....in the book of Job.....In transforming a community of people with distinct identities and roles into a hysterical mass, Satan produces myths and is the principle of systematic accusation that bursts forth from the contagious imitation provoked by scandals. Once the unfortunate victim is completely isolated, deprived of defenders, nothing can protect her or him from the aroused crowd. Everyone can set upon the victim without having to fear the least reprisal."
"......The persecutors....believe they have on their hands a dangerous person, someone evil, of whom they must rid the community. What could be more sincere than their hatred?"
".....The Ephesians start stoning their victim with such rage that they finally see him as Apollonius demands, the source of all their misfortunes, the 'plague demon' that must be expelled in order to heal the city."
"....The single victim mechanism only functions by means of the ignorance of those who keep it working. They believe they are supporting the truth when they are really living a lie."
I hope these posts help clarify (and maybe halt) a tiny portion of any gossip that may be being whispered. I sincerely pray these posts do not add to any gossip.
I doubt I will return to GSC. Enough folks have my email addy if someone wants to contact me via email.
Peace,
Carol Welch
ILB
PS: At this point I'm not gonna posts the accusations. But I have them all typed out, if I decide to post them. I process by writing, thus I've written.
I sincerely pray these posts do not add to any gossip.
I don't know Carol but I suspect they will. After all you have written I don't have a clue what you are talking about which is fine . I may be wrong but I bet that I am not the only one. All this back and forth drama between the parties I may tell you but then again I wont , to me just makes people ask the obvious question or questions what the f**k are they talking about?
Just a thought here and I am not saying that people need to settle their differences here in the open for us all, but if you are going to, don't assume the world knows what you are talking about. I'm p*ssed off at ________ because__________ works for me
Once the unfortunate victim is completely isolated, deprived of defenders, nothing can protect her or him from the aroused crowd. Everyone can set upon the victim without having to fear the least reprisal."
You may feel this way but really I doubt that everyone else does again I may be wrong but I doubt it ,there are a variety of people and opinions here that's one thing for sure that I do know
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TheHighWay
Well, honey, if you aren't going to respond or even read our replies, what the heck is the point?
Sorry, but you've only made yourself look bad here... not Paw.
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Mr. Pipes
Highway,
You make a point. However, I've stressed to my wife that standing in GreaseSpot is meaningless. There are
some wondeful folks who make good points on this site. Also, there are wackos that post here. There is more
middle school drama at this site than most middle schools could muster.
I don't have any friends at this site, but do consider some members to be very logical and wise. Regardless, I don't need
the approval of any or all members here. Apparently now, neither does my wife.
For those of you living true, God bless you. For those of you playing games and living half-truths to outright lies,
you are not fooling anyone that matters - just yourself and the cyber world.
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GarthP2000
And its back to this week's saga of ... "As The Stomach Turns ....."
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rascal
Pipes, you make some pretty harsh accusations. Folks here are trying to get to the bottom of things. To give everybody the collective finger, even those fighting to get to the bottom of this mess is a shame.
People are worth fighting for, this is a place that needs fighting for....I wish that you could see the worth of both to the point of being willing to get to the truth of the matter.
I am sorry that you were hurt.
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Tom Strange
I don't stay away from the mall simply because I don't like one of the stores there... I just stay out of that store... but that's just me...
I don't think folks are any different here than anywhere else... us folks who frequent the GSC might have a higher emotional level than other places where humans gather given that most all of us were involved in a cult that primarily used emotional manipulation and therefore are more "on guard"... I don't know... there are places I don't go here because I don't get any particular enjoyment out of them, there are posters I might choose not to read because I simply don't want to, but there's enough variety in both posts and posters that I can always find something I enjoy... and enough variety in posts and posters that I like coming around.
I don't know anything about any of this... I just figure people are people, everywhere... here on the net, live and in person...
...I'm still trying to figure out why either of these threads are in the "About the Way" section...
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Mr. Pipes
Tom,
You are one of the members I ENJOY reading immensely. This is in About the Way beause it's where it started. :)
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TheHighWay
Mr. Pipes,
I think the world of your Mrs. and I've enjoyed my communications with her.
But frankly, when you speak of Middle School games and then go all cryptic in your posts, well, I find I don't have a lot of patience. Either plainly say who did what, and who accused who, and what the heck all this muckety-muck is about, or say nothing. All Mrs.B's original post here did was stir the controversy.
I'm terribly sorry if you and she got caught in the middle of some idiot's games, I truly am!!!! Unfortunately you would not be the first, and even worse, probably not the last. I would hope you could both rise above the petty stuff and keep posting... you both have things to contribute that others should hear. We don't want to see you go because someone else is being stupid.
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Eyesopen
Oh I don't know about that...a middle school can muster quite the bushel of drama just ask my 12 year old. The funny thing is that I can't keep up with the drama here any better than I can keep up with her drama...oh well. I just hope and pray that all of you, adults and children alike manage to work it all out before someone loses an eye.
'Cause God loves you and so do I :)
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doojable
May I humbly suggest that everyone take a step back. I have yet to see real problems settled in a thread or over cyber space.
I fully understand having questions - I've been in this type of situation and I've found that impatience exacerbates the problem.
Pipes, you know I love you and my prayers are with you.
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Mr. Pipes
Highway, thanks for the heart. I've not been attacked nor hurt here. I'm out here for my wife, whom I cherish. I'm not going to add any more drama. Middle school was a LONG time ago and I don't have the energy nor interest for drama.
There are GOOD folks who post frequently here. There are some of the other variety here, too.
Dooj, you know how highly I think of you.
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doojable
Ditto for you and Pipes!
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pawtucket
In the original thread, I stated that I was sent more than one email Friday night. You've seen the well known one, you haven't seen the others.
I wish I had access to my pawtucket email here at work, but a firewall disallows that.
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oenophile
A month or so ago, I bade Greasespot my farewell. I acknowledge the "Good riddance" cries and raise my glass to you all, my detractors and dear friends alike.
I emerge this one time only to speak up for my very dear friend Pipes. I have known her for some time now and I can assure you that if she is anything she is unswervingly truthful. She has a tender and pure heart. She would never seek to hurt anyone - or allow anyone to hurt someone she loves in a secret forum by foul and mean spirited "cattiness" and gossip, especially when that person is unaware of what is happening and cannot speak for him/herself.
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bliss
ohhhhhhhhhhhh
I love Pipes
I send her poems/songs
I have no clue what is going on!
maybe that's a good thing.......................... :blink:
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J0nny Ling0
It is so sad that this rumble has occurred, for, there is such "Poodle thread" going on over in "About The Way......"
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pawtucket
I have sent you the quotes privately
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HAPe4me
I don't get it, why cast a bomb like Pipe's CHEAP SHOT at Paw if you are not gonna stick around to read, verify, or hear disputing comments. Ya know, 98% of us, including me, would never have even known she, her husband, or friends, were somehow caught up iin this if SHE had not posted it. Their names were never mentioned until Pipe's posts, which she saw fit to put in two different places.
In contrast, Freeatlast was quite upright in not identifying the issue that affected her directly. She only wanted to say hi and goodbye to those she has found a fondness for here. It was a very mature and healthy management of the conflict she endured.
The Cafe's primary purpose is to provide an access point of information to people who have been affected by TWI, and at that it does quite well. Perhaps it would do us all well to realize it is not the responsibility of the moderators to heal personal conflicts, soothe hurt feelings, repair broken relationships between posters or listen to broken love affairs. It is beyond me why anyone would submit to Paw or the moderators any of this information.
The Cafe's purpose is not EVEN to provide a social gathering place for those of us who enjoy the patter in chat, the battles of politaks, the laughs in silly or the uplifting of the prayer forum.....etc. If we find these things here anyway, great! For myself, I enjoy the socializing I find amongst people with a shared although distant, past. I realize however, this is not the main purpose of this site, and therefore is not a responsibility of the moderators to provide. If a conflict arises betwixt me and another in those venues, why would I bring the mods into it? I certainly would not be so presumptuous as to personally attack them if they chose to get involved anyway.
~HAP
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FreeAtLast
Tom - I think I made a mistake I just posted from where I was and didn't even realize I was in about the way. Sorry
Hap - all good points. Finger pointing isn't going to solve anything and as dooj stated neither will a forum. Lies were perpetrated people were used and chaos insued. It's not normal life but there are those that get their jollies in seeing others in conflict. I don't know if we can attribute that alone to the events of this week but we can sure put that as one of the causes. All in all the most important thing is communication, I will tell someone how it is and what I think, but when I am cut off unable to do that and am forced to allow people to believe a lie perpetrated about me, well I find that maybe the association isn't healthy. Open communication in all conflict is necessary.
I know this is vague to you but I think if we can learn anything from the events that effected some of us this week is that it is important to hear each other out. Get all sides of a story before a judgement is made and then as adults sort through the process and quit the finger pointing. Another lesson was that you just can't go on hearsay, you have to get the facts.
So if you all can learn anything from my experiences this week it is just that. lol. (((((Grease Spotters)))))
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waterbuffalo
Pipes,
I have no idea what's going on. It is not my business. Your words do carry weight with me, though. I consider you a friend. You do not deserve to be treated badly by anyone.
I truly hope this gets ironed out in a positive way for everyone concerned. I love you all dearly.
wb
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I Love Bagpipes
I stated in my previous post that it was my last. Obviously it wasn't because I am posting again.
I hope and believe my motives in posting are to shed a little light regarding any current gossip, to clarify part of the reason I have expressed what I have expressed, and to get people to think outside and beyond group think.
The following posts explain part of the reason for my response(s) in regard to the recent churlish and paranoid character assassination that took place in another forum and then spilled over into the public GSC forum.
I am dividing what would be one long post into separate posts to make for a more conducive reading format.
These posts contain only a small tip of an iceberg.
In December I had an unusual cyber reunion on GSC with a man with whom I had been on the WOW field some 26 years ago. As the scenario of this reunion played out Pawtucket warned me that this man was posing as someone else, that I had been bated, that this man was not to be trusted and was liar.
Due to the circumstances surrounding this cyber reunion, I felt deeply violated based on Pawtucket's appraisal and information regarding this individual.
The same day that Paw revealed to me his assessment of this individual, I learned that law enforcement had discovered that someone I knew who had recently been murdered in the city where I live, was murdered by someone posing to be someone else.
If what Paw stated was true (that my WOW brother whom I had the cyber reunion with was posing as someone else, was a liar, was not to be trusted), I was deeply concerned.
My WOW brother had my full name, the city where I lived, both my phone numbers, and he lived about 45 minutes from my home.
If he was the pervert/psycho that I had been led to believe, my family could be in danger. I do not believe that was an over reaction, but a normal response to the circumstances.
After discussing the situation with my husband , I contacted my brother in law who is in law enforcement. I paid for a criminal background check. My family was instructed to make sure all doors remained locked and if any unknown or suspicious characters were hanging around to make a phone call.
My point in explaining all this in this post is that if anyone had a legitimate cause to fully investigate this alleged psycho, it was me and my husband. My family could have been in very real physical danger.
The criminal background check came up clean. I let Paw know the results of the criminal background check.
In the meantime I spent about 3 days reading every post this person had posted from years back (that could be viewed) on GSC. I endeavored to stay objective through this investigation. I needed to get a feel for this alleged pervert that I might be dealing with. Again, I do not believe this was an over reaction but a logical course of action based on what Paw had revealed to me regarding this person.
After reading every post I could find, my assessment of this individual was that this person spoke his mind, liked to cuss some, sometimes came across brash.....but also that he wasn't a liar and didn't like perverts. Still I was very cautious, preparing myself if he might call or appear at our home.
A few days later the alleged psycho called me. I was with my husband when the phone call came through. My heart quickened; I had some fear. I took the call.
At that time I did not reveal to my WOW brother (the alleged bater, liar, deceiver, etc.) any of the scenario I had been through the previous 6 days. Psychos/liars are good at what they do and I wasn't sure who/what I was dealing with.
(cont'd next post).......
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I Love Bagpipes
(I'm trying to enter these as separate posts, but my 2nd post ended up on my first post. So, if it alls end up together...oh well.)
Over the course of the next 2(?) weeks my WOW brother and I communicated. He began to share his story. I revealed to him the scenario that had played out and Paw's accusations. My husband and I had supper with him.
There was a legitimate technological explanation regarding Paw's (incorrect) assessment for Paw to think that my WOW brother was posing as another poster. I presented this explanation to Paw.
Two of Paw's statements to me in response to my explanation were: "There can be no other explanation" and "He looks for people like you." It appeared to me that Pawtucket was unwilling to consider that he might be wrong regarding his accusation. Paw came across brash to me and I admit, I responded brashly to him. At that point I wrote Pawtucket that I no longer wanted to pm about it.
As of a week or so ago, as far as I can tell, Paw still stands by his accusation from December.
My problem is not that Paw did not believe me. He had reason to believe what he did, and I understand that.
What bothers me is when an expert/authority in a field will not consider that maybe, perhaps s/he might have assessed something incorrectly after being given a legitimate possible explanation regarding an assessment/accusation.
To my knowledge, Pawtucket was not present during a recent character assassination of my WOW brother which took place in another forum, but I do feel Pawtucket's appraisal toward the accused had influence in the assassination. Also, the accused had no way to defend himself.
Other things played into this assassination, some of which were actually brought about by the accused. Suppressed emotional responses are rarely neat and tidy. GSC has plenty proof of that.
I believe the character assassination that took place in the other forum and then spilled over onto the GSC board was unjust and wrong.
From mine and my husband's 3-D current, real-life relationship with my WOW brother, we feel he is one of the most honest people we know.
I am not trying to come across that I am some righteous individual above reproach. I am not. Neither is any other person involved in this soap opera fiasco.
I hope and want to believe that no one (including myself) maliciously and/or intentionally accused and/or lied. Emotions were running high through the domino of events.
(After reading through some of the responses on this thread, perhaps I should post the false accusations made against me and my husband and my WOW brother and his friend that I mention in my initial post on this thread. I wasn't going to, but maybe I'll add that at the end of my planned responses here.)
(Edited to try to get my next post as a next post. <_< )
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I Love Bagpipes
Just some ramblings now:
I left TWI about 1-1/2 years ago after 28 years of involvement. GSC provided me a place to decompress after leaving TWI and a place to reconnect with friends and make new friends. For that I am thankful.
I am also thankful for the good experiences I had while in TWI.
One of GSC's characteristics is its stands against the hypocrisy of TWI?
I think some people would agree that systems/organizations have a way of becoming that which they stand against, oftentimes only to protect their agenda(s)?
We all came/come out of group think - a learned response. Everyone who lives in a community is exposed and experiences some level of group think.
We all know our societies and communities need to remember and apply deep thought and consideration before jumping to conclusive judgments and making accusations and absolute assessments, and to not allow a system to become our identity.
Interestingly toward the end of April I began reading a book, I See Satan Fall Like Lightening by Rene Girard, a French anthropologist, as part of a book study with some other folks. (Totally non Way related.)
Little did I know that I would be in a thicket (on a very small scale) experiencing the very concepts/actions/observations that this book addresses and dissects.
I have thought about the concepts presented in this book in light of TWI, in light of accusations toward TWI, in light of this recent drama that played out in my personal life, and in light of group think and communities in general.
My next post contains a few quotes from this book as food for thought.
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I Love Bagpipes
(Okay, one more time....I'll try to enter this post as a separate post. I really thought it might help reading all this if it were divided up. That is, if anybody takes the time to read all of it. But my consecutive posts want to attach to my previous posts.)
Following are a few quotes simply as food for thought, including food for thought for myself. If you wish, take out the word "satan" and simply substitute evil, accusations, or some other similar word.
From the book, I See Satan Fall Like Lightening:
"(footnote: 'Single victim mechanism' is a translation of the French mecanisme victimaire. It refers to the unconscious snowballing process that reaches a point of crisis and ends the disorder of human rivalries and scandals by expelling or lynching a victim. It could, of course , select more than one victim, perhaps a minority group, foreigners, et al., but for purposes of analysis and discussion Girard wishes to keep a clear focus on the simplest instance of the mechanism....)"
"....community reestablishes its unity against a single victim who becomes the supreme scandal because everyone, in a mimetic fervor, holds this one to be guilty. Satan is the violent contagion that persuades the entire community, which has become unanimous, that this guilt is real. He owes one of his most ancient and traditional names to this art of persuasion. He is the accuser....in the book of Job.....In transforming a community of people with distinct identities and roles into a hysterical mass, Satan produces myths and is the principle of systematic accusation that bursts forth from the contagious imitation provoked by scandals. Once the unfortunate victim is completely isolated, deprived of defenders, nothing can protect her or him from the aroused crowd. Everyone can set upon the victim without having to fear the least reprisal."
"......The persecutors....believe they have on their hands a dangerous person, someone evil, of whom they must rid the community. What could be more sincere than their hatred?"
".....The Ephesians start stoning their victim with such rage that they finally see him as Apollonius demands, the source of all their misfortunes, the 'plague demon' that must be expelled in order to heal the city."
"....The single victim mechanism only functions by means of the ignorance of those who keep it working. They believe they are supporting the truth when they are really living a lie."
I hope these posts help clarify (and maybe halt) a tiny portion of any gossip that may be being whispered. I sincerely pray these posts do not add to any gossip.
I doubt I will return to GSC. Enough folks have my email addy if someone wants to contact me via email.
Peace,
Carol Welch
ILB
PS: At this point I'm not gonna posts the accusations. But I have them all typed out, if I decide to post them. I process by writing, thus I've written.
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WhiteDove
I don't know Carol but I suspect they will. After all you have written I don't have a clue what you are talking about which is fine . I may be wrong but I bet that I am not the only one. All this back and forth drama between the parties I may tell you but then again I wont , to me just makes people ask the obvious question or questions what the f**k are they talking about?
Just a thought here and I am not saying that people need to settle their differences here in the open for us all, but if you are going to, don't assume the world knows what you are talking about. I'm p*ssed off at ________ because__________ works for me
Once the unfortunate victim is completely isolated, deprived of defenders, nothing can protect her or him from the aroused crowd. Everyone can set upon the victim without having to fear the least reprisal."
You may feel this way but really I doubt that everyone else does again I may be wrong but I doubt it ,there are a variety of people and opinions here that's one thing for sure that I do know
Hope all is well with you.......
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