OK - I just got done cleaning the vomit from my screen.......
It's so hypocritical that TWI always touted themselves as the best in everything and yet they are so against studying the masters that they are doomed to mediocrity in every thing they do.
These "pieces" (ahem) are awful. I've seen High School work that is better than these.
Bad composition, bad anatomy and poor execution. They look cartoonish.
I really hate Anime and Manga - but in this case I'd make and exception...
Well - I should explain. As a Drawing teacher I try to get students to really draw what they see. Because I didn't pass "Mind Reading 101" I have to have them draw things that we can both see. That way I can help them. The goal is that when they have to see with their mind's eye they will be able to do that accurately.
Manga and Anime are so overdone that a student can get the false impression that they can draw just because they can whip out a copy of a cartoon figure. In reality, colleges that teach animation don't want to see copies of animation. The usually don't want to see any cartoon figures at all. They just want to know if the student can draw. Then they can be taught how to develop their own cartooning style and characters.
In any case- bad Anime or Manga would be better than that schlock on the Way website.
In any case- bad Anime or Manga would be better than that schlock on the Way website.
Agreed. I mainly appreciate Anime in a strictly entertainment sort of way, not really in the "art" aspect - although some of it is quite aesthetically pleasing.
I think my hubby would rather hang a large anime poster in our living room than that poster.
Agreed. I mainly appreciate Anime in a strictly entertainment sort of way, not really in the "art" aspect - although some of it is quite aesthetically pleasing.
I think my hubby would rather hang a large anime poster in our living room than that poster.
I'd rather hang myself than that poster......(I already have some nice art there so don't worry ;))
As a Drawing teacher I try to get students to really draw what they see. Because I didn't pass "Mind Reading 101" I have to have them draw things that we can both see. That way I can help them. The goal is that when they have to see with their mind's eye they will be able to do that accurately.
In reality, colleges that teach animation don't want to see copies of animation. The usually don't want to see any cartoon figures at all. They just want to know if the student can draw. Then they can be taught how to develop their own cartooning style and characters.
Wow, dooj, I didn't realize that, but it makes so much sense.
I had to take an art class this year and we had to keep a sketch book. I have always had artistic abilities (lots of crafts, painting of objects, making of costumes, etc.) but have never had a real art class. I found that I could sketch things that other people had drawn (like birds, animals, book illustrations, etc.) but couldn't seem to transfer "real life" into a sketch, and couldn't seem to come up with my own ideas or images in any quality way. Anything I imagined I wanted to draw pretty much came out like a 4th-grader's cartoon. Your explanation helps put all that into perspective for me. Thanks!
My entire history in TWI was totally about creativity and the whole Word in Fine Arts thing.
I worked with Elena Whiteside, David Kraley, John Kish, Brian Heaney, Allison Heaney, Beth Lowder, Lonnell Johnson, Etc. We were at the center of TWI's creative efforts. Specifically in the visual arts & writing and all forms of the arts.
I came to work at HQ specifically to be a part of the whole creative thing.
It was NEVER Elena's goal to in any way squelch a person's creativity. What she wrote in the word in culture book was more about putting creativity in perspective. Perspective being that only God can create, in the sense of creating something from nothing. Literally being that only God can CREATE the colors that we humans use to MAKE a beautiful work of art that reflects creativity.
Therw was a lot of good in the Word in Fine Arts stuff we were doing. In fact, looking back, speaking totally for myself I'd say that it was the time & focus I spent on all of that stuff that kept me from "seeing" a lot of the crap that was going on elsewhere.
We artists were a sub-culture within the TWI culture. I spent a LOT of time hangin' out at the Kish's home when I was at HQ. We, all of us in the whole wird in fine arts movement worked really hard on being creative in our areas, from the dancers, to the writers, musicians, architects, sculpters, photographers, graphic artists, painters, woodworkers, etc., etc.
VPW actually pushed us towards quality and creativity. Back in the old days he/we/they used to say that a person's work had "heart." A lot of times the work stunk, but people put their heart into it. Origianlly VPW spoke of dreams of the ministry having God inspired professionals at every area in the ministry, specifically the artisans. We'd have meetings where he taught about the "cunning craftsmen" the Old Testament speaks about. The people who God inspired to design, build and do the decor of the temple, the ark of the covenant & stuff like that. He told us that our goal should be to be like them. VP was really into poetry and creative writing. Have you every heard his albums where he read creative writings? "The Mystery Train" "Love Letters" ??? How about Lonnell Johnson's book "Ears Near to the Lips of God" it was poetry, creative writing. TWI never had anything against being creative... until LCM & co. took over. In fact, VP told me personally and privately (in the motorcoach) that I was the artist (not him) and that when it came to the stuff I did, I should tell HIM what to do. All he could do was maybe point me in a direction, but it was God who would work in ME as to HOW to go about doing it because I am the artist.
I felt then, still do now, always have and always will believe that I've been gifted from God to be one of those "cunning" creative artisans the Bible speaks of. I leanred about that stuff through TWI and the WIFA movement. NOONE can take that away from me. Except me. I can put it down and walk away from it. However, if I do, it will torment me. Being an artist is like having a fire inside, if you don't deal with it it will deal with you.
Like so many other things, the work we did and were doing deteriorated through the '80s as LCM/Rosalie took over. The Word in Fine Arts/Word in Culture thing in TWI wasn't so much a VPW thing. People picked up that ball and we ran with it.
I'm saddened to hear that creatives were stifled by TWI.
Some of you guys know that I was on staff @ TWI HQ for 8 years. I also spent most of my two in residence years working in Divine Design at all of the other root locations. There was a lot of good work that we did in WIFA that was never completed and/or published widely through the ministry. Mostly because the events of VPW's death & LCM's rise to power & the Athletes of the Spirit thing & Chris Gear's POP thing ripped the ministry to shreds. Our stuff was relegated to the back burner and the people who were specifically doing whatever sorta took whatever with them when we all left TWI.
Personally. I wanted to come to TWI HQ to work because I heard VPW say on a SNS tape that TWI had hired this really great airbrush artist to do the America Awakes album cover because we didn't have a believer in the ministry who could do work of top professional quality. I was a junior in high school at the time majoring in commercial art in 1975. I was pretty good. A lot better than the work I'd seen come from HQ on old Way Magazines.
I wrote David Craley who was at the time editor of the way mag & asked him about coming to HQ on an internship when I was in art school. He invited me to come to HQ & meet w/ him & show him my portfolio. I didn't do the internship but he promised to consider me for a staff position after I graduated in 1978.
In the meantime, I contacted my Limb Leader (we were allowed to call them leaders then) and we created one of the first state coordinator positions for Word in Fine Arts, in Pennsylvania. I did that for a couple of years. What I did was contact "all" of the artisians in the state of PA and coordinate signage, etc. for statelevel ministry events. Local folk would do their own locan events and we would work together to decorate things like Heart Festivals, Limb meetings - stuff like that. I'd act as art director & assign projects, coordinate their delivery, set-up & tear down at the event. We did some pretty nice stuff.
After I came to HQ. Part of my job was to coordinate the event photography for ministry level events like ROA and some of the large classes like Living Victoriously. I'd communicate w/ photographers who came in from the field and coordinate shooting assignments to help insure that the entire event would be recorded photographically for the ministry's historical files.
We had quality standards in terms of wanting professional photgraphers to shoot the big events and a level of "spirituality" that we felt was acceptable in the photos, things we felt were publishable. The Degas painting critique mentioned earlier spoke of some of the things we deemed "spiritually OK" and not cool. It wasn't like we didn't understand basic and even advanced photographic composition, ldesign, lighting, etc. We did.
The deal about the legs of the dancer boxing in a maind object of composition, the dark eyes, etc, negative comments were things that represented some basic "ungodly" stuff.
For example:
We would never publish images of people in TWI publications where the eyes of the main image was obscured by darkness. It wasn't about a person having dark colored eyes. The idea is that God is light, the human body is the temple of God and therefore with the light of the body being the eye, painting an image of a human with darkness obscuring the eyes so that you couldn't see them, doesn't portray godliness. We wouldn't publish a photo where a major compositional element, ie a person's face was split by the edge of the frame, we crop the face all the way out of the picture. We wouldn't publish an image if there was, say a pole in the background that made it look like their hear was impaled on the pole. Bottom line was that we did our best to not publish images that didn't portray humans as God's best. We didn't do stuff like using dismembered body parts as compositional elements. Yes, we felt it ungodly to do stuff like that - intentionally.
It wasn't meant to be really heavy duty legalistic stuff, just our best effort to make people look good as opposed to bad. It was more our effort to have TWI pubs have a style than anything else. We felt that clean uncluttered composition was more Godly than cluttered confusing stuff. I did basically every photospread in The Way Mag from '79 - 1988 with those standards in mind.
I guess all this goes to say that the original thinking in TWI concerning the arts was that we wanted to encourage and inspire artisans to become truly God-inspired professionals. We studied master artisans not to tear them down but for the same reasons any artist studies the masters. We had some really good artists, and some that weren't as good. All in all we were a work in progress, we all knew that. At least those of us who were there, at the center of things. Speaking of masters there was a group of TWI artists that were actually studying with this master dude who had this atoille studio where he only accepted a few artist who wanted to study under his tutelege to do american realism or something like that. He'd do stuff and teach folks techniques the when you became really good you'd do these realistic paintings that looked so real that you felt you could eat the apple or pick up the knife off the table you'd just painted.
Personally I was like, "No thank you, I'll shoot a photo...."
Point being of all the perverse pervions in TWI, they perverted this one too.
Being creative is a GIFT FROM GOD.
If you've got it, develop it, GO for it with all you've got. Being creative IS being Godly. So freakin what if we can't actually "create." We CAN, however, BE creaTIVE. As an artist, just HOW can one be an imitator of God as a dear child without being creative?
Thanks HCW - With as much complaining as I do about those years in TWI, it's still good to hear what the behind the scenes perspective was back then.
It's a shame that more artists weren't exposed to some of the teaching and insight you just presented here. I still see lots of limitations, but I also see the heart of what was done.
Unfortunately, there was a hierarchy, and the information didn't get dispersed as well as it could have. I'm just thankful that I heard God when He told me to begin teaching and later to go back to painting. You're right about being an artist and having a fire inside.
Just wanted to let you all know that I have begun editing a project I started years ago - started off like I was stuttering... But it got easier and easier to write.
got through 30+ pages in a little under a week!!
WHOOOO hoooo!!
I'm writing again!
Thanks to all of you who posted on this thread and who PMed me with words of encouragement.
That ol' debbil spitit called WRITER'S BLOCK has been cast out!!
Yeah. Its a real shame that stuff never really got published.
One of the most exciting things (to me at least) that we did was this study on color-music harmony. They came up with a color chart (I don't know exactly wher it came from) where the different colors corresponded with music notes on your basic music scale. They had commissioned a series of paintings that they hung in the cafeteria at Emporia that were part of the culmination of the study.
The flying swans were composed so that they were actually notes on a sheet of music and the color palette was in the same "key" as the riff that the notes represented. WIth the chart one could actually do a painting in the key of "whatever." The idea was based on the theory that since music is pure emotion that you can hear, one could apply the same emotional principals to visuals and intentionally create a work of visual art that would convey the same visual emotion that a music cord does.
It was cool. I was actually going to do an illustration for the Way Magazine utilizing those principles and planned to do an article for the mag that spoke to the study, etc. After we'd gotten some feed back on they "results" from it. I'd done a couple of studies where I painted the same image in different "keys."
ALL (true) creativity is from God. It is a gift that HE gives along with other gifts He gives other folks. Don't let an anal sphincter like LCM take that away from you.
I stayed w/ TWI for so long because I was sooo far under all that creativity stuff. VPW was REALLY into creativity and he had a real affinity w/us creative types. I think, looking back, and after hearing about other people's experiences, that we got his best. TWI was built on Way Productions and the creativity of the artists, musicians, research folk, architects, builders, etc. There were a lot of geniuses involved in every aspect of the ministry. VPW totally encouraged us all, he worked with us & guided the progress of a lot of folks & stayed out of the way while God worked in people to create some really great stuff.
LCM tried so much to be like VPW but he has a huge jealous streak, based on the fact that he never had true world class talent in the areas he wanted to be a world class talent in. Where VPW would give a direction to move in & get out of the way, LCM wanted to be hands on so that he could see himself in YOUR work.
I did the letterhead design for VPW's letters every year, he would have his secretary get me the rough version of the letter, I would extrapolate the theme from the letter and illustrate it as I saw fit. I'd show my illustration to him in its rough form & he'd OK it.
When LCM took over, I was doing the poster for Athletes of the Spirit. Craig changed it THREE times before I finally broke down and did basically what he said I should do. I had done the logo prior to the poster & basically LCM designed it. I was just the hands that did the artwork. He picked the reference shot that I used to do the illustration, HE decided what poses all of the people in the poster would be in HE decided what imagery and design elements the poster would contain. That poster had the same contrived look that lots of stuff we did then did.
The result of putting a creative artist in a box that a non-creative creates.
It seems LCM only got worse as time went by.
Part of his problem is that he was the schiznit in high school when he played football, basically because of his size he got over on the local dudes he played against. When he moved to Division 1A in college at Kansas and ran up against some REAL ballers - - he found out he was a second stringer at best. He became jealous of the guys who played ahead of him & when he became pres. he got his revenge. He made EVERYONE who was better than him in anything bow down under him.
He beat the talent out of everyone because he, himself has VERY limited talents. Typical Romans chapter 2 stuff. He imprisioned everyone to serve him.
Glad you're free now!
If you're writer, there's a rhythm to your soul that you just gotta let it flow.
Ya HCW - it seemed to me that that was the type of information that should have been made available to the artists.
I heard about the theory - but was never made privy to it. I even got to see the paintings.
In a sense, it still makes me a bit sad. There seemed to be a hierarchy in that information that shouldn't have existed.
Yeah. That stuff really flourished when the ministry blew up & changed from a quaint little movement in the cornfield to worldwide corporation.
I hated it.
It made me sad too. There was so much that was going on that people should have known about. I wanted to do so much more, but we were sooo busy with what we were doing everyday. I guess we thought that TWI would be around forever and that at some point we'd get around to doing all the stuff we wanted to the way we wanted to do it.
BUT. It was like there were two ministries happening simultaneously. The one where great stuff was happening and the one where all of the crap was going down. The ministry imploded right around us behind the crap.
BTW.
I have a copy of the color-music harmony chart. Again, its somewhere in a box in my basement.
I'm a little more sceptical than you are. Since I knew you in-rez I'm not gonna go into all the things I felt was going on regarding the arts.
Suffice it to say that you're saying that there were two ministries is very correct.
I'm glad that I am able to use my gift and really make a difference. In the long run, that's what really counts.
Saying "two ministries" was putting it kindly.
There was a LOT of stuff going on - a lot of people with their own agendas. Even when I was on staff, for as much as I was right in the middle of what was going on, in other ways I was COMPLETELY on the outside of some other stuff. Out and even locked out.
Agreed on the using your gift stuff & making a difference. BRAVO!
Isn't it "ironic" how some of the people who were making the biggest noise in the arts in the ministry were ones who were shall we say, "not as talented" as some on the outside...?
Yeah - Just goes to show you - if someone tells you to put down your gift - tell them to stuff it.
I learned the hard way not to let anyone tell me how God wanted me to walk, talk, paint, teach, whatever.
If I weren't so convinced that God did reach me and TELL me what to do with my gift - I could be real bitter. As it is, I'm somewhat annoyed with that time in my life, because I was still so young that I didn't know any better.
My kids are getting a better view of how to use their gifts, and you better believe that they're fiesty too!
HCW: The color scheme theory correlating to music keys actually came from Bullinger, although I don’t remember which book it was in. I used to have it. His idea was the colors would automatically have balance if they corresponded to music. Someone on twi staff took the theory and developed it by utilizing the colors in a prism. Part of the idea was to use major keys and avoid minor ones (considered depressing). So, C major being the first chord in the scale became red, yellow and blue. This used to be a handout in the ADV class. There was an admonition not to use black as it was thought to be the complete absence of light. I saw the paintings at Emporia during the ADV Class. They were pretty great. I particularly remember a very large landscape I liked the best.
In any case, I am an oil landscape painter (although I am comfortable with all mediums including graphics, calligraphy and pen and ink). I did a series of posters for the pfal class using the chords. Worked out nicely because there are 12 major keys and 12 sessions. Since I also play piano, it wasn’t difficult for me to figure out the colors belonging to the different keys. Later on, I was not allowed to do art work for the ministry because I wasn’t WC. So WC would do the artwork with no artistic ability whatsoever…but you know they were WC so it must be more godly.
I continue to use the chords sometimes. My favorite is blue-green, red-orange, and red-violet). The thing about using them is you have a balance of warm and cool and they are rather vibrant. I also prefer using odd numbers of things in my designs. Using 3 colors adds that composition element.
I use prism colors to achieve depth (small amounts say in green if it’s a field). What I really like about landscape painting is conveying sunlight in different ways and very often that is the focal point of my paintings, or rather there will be an item that is especially lit up, ie it has flat surfaces that catch a lot of light. So the light becomes a strong composition element of itself in addition to light, medium and dark colors.
There are actually people who can "see" colors as various notes are played.
I don't know very much about this other than that it exists and it is not something they force into fruition.
As best I can tell, it must resemble that scene in "Fantasia" where the instruments play and colored images appear.
It's not a random type of thing. In other words, C# will always produce the same color. (We'll say purple just as an example) and it's tonal value will fluctuate based on how sharp or flat it is produced.
There are also people who have a type of perfect pitch that assigns minute values to slight variations.
Whereas the average musician can tell there is a half step between two particular notes, a person with one type of perfect pitch can tell you which notes they are. A person with a third type of perfect pitch can further break this down into hundredths(known as "cents") They can tell you that a note is A#+ 37 cents. This has been verified with digital tuners.
Personally, I have my days when I'm doing well to carry a tune in a tin bucket, regardless of said bucket's color.
TheHighway...............just read your post and I wanted to say don't give up with your drawings, just because you are looking at someone elses work and drawing something similiar doesn't mean you don't have the talent to draw, it comes with alot of practice and ALOT of artists just starting out learned to draw by copying someone else's artwork and then they went on to develop their own style. One artist that is world famous for children's illustrations, does the illustrations for the author Robert Munsch, his name is Michael Martchenko and that's exactly how he got started by copying other people's work, then he came up with his own, now his stuff is all over the world.
I've been enjoying this thread, especially HCW's insights and experience. I was 'on the fringe' of the arts in the way back then, attending the poiema 'advances' at HQ, hanging with some of the way artist's, and working on "Glad' magazine, which I'm not sure qualifies as 'art'. It was certainly SOMETHING.
I used to wonder about the validity of these teachings on color , light, composition. While I understood the thinking behind tearing apart Degas, I thought he was a genius for the very things he was criticised for. His work moved me alot more than the work that they seemed to approve of. It all seemed boring to me, and I couldn't stand the thought of limiting ones imagination. It made sense to me that a way publication would use these ideas. The thinking behind choosing photographs that HCW was talking about was very interesting and valid.
I didn't achieve anything worthwhile with art until I was free of the way. A huge reason being I was kept so busy running around to the endless meetings and responsibilities that I never had time to do anything. I also kept my sights low while in the way. The work I do now would have seemed impossible to me during those years. It really was difficult to strive towards 'worldly' goals, when it's reenforced daily how the world , and careers don't really matter, and most of the people you fellowship with are washing windows, and critical of anyone who puts personal goals above sitting through pfal for the 40th time.
I'm fortunate to have a job where I draw , draw, draw, and I'm happy and thankful every day. It's still a job, though, and I'm working to please an art director. I'm finding it's the work I do on my own, with noone to please but myself, that is the most personally rewarding. I also find it's the work most people respond to. I still don't have enough time to do what I really want, but at least it's of my own choosing.
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chockfull
We still get Hoho cards - like I want to see their fugly mugs. Somehow mine got thrown out before I could realize the true Photoshop value encased therein. But that there is a good idea!!!!! Maybe
JavaJane
Just an update... I now own and run my own business which involves a lot of culinary creativity... AND I joined the choir at my church. Sang in the Advent Concert. And just finished singing in my
JavaJane
Special for Dooj - although we were talking about this on another thread...
http://www.theway.org/
The poster i was speaking of is right in the center.
Comments? I'd love to hear them!
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doojable
OK - I just got done cleaning the vomit from my screen.......
It's so hypocritical that TWI always touted themselves as the best in everything and yet they are so against studying the masters that they are doomed to mediocrity in every thing they do.
These "pieces" (ahem) are awful. I've seen High School work that is better than these.
Bad composition, bad anatomy and poor execution. They look cartoonish.
I really hate Anime and Manga - but in this case I'd make and exception...
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JavaJane
Guess you're hating my photo, eh, Dooj?
:unsure:
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ChasUFarley
That's a poster?
I thought it was the cover of a Way Mag, at best...
YIKES...
That ALONE makes me glad I'm OUT!
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doojable
Well - I should explain. As a Drawing teacher I try to get students to really draw what they see. Because I didn't pass "Mind Reading 101" I have to have them draw things that we can both see. That way I can help them. The goal is that when they have to see with their mind's eye they will be able to do that accurately.
Manga and Anime are so overdone that a student can get the false impression that they can draw just because they can whip out a copy of a cartoon figure. In reality, colleges that teach animation don't want to see copies of animation. The usually don't want to see any cartoon figures at all. They just want to know if the student can draw. Then they can be taught how to develop their own cartooning style and characters.
In any case- bad Anime or Manga would be better than that schlock on the Way website.
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JavaJane
Agreed. I mainly appreciate Anime in a strictly entertainment sort of way, not really in the "art" aspect - although some of it is quite aesthetically pleasing.
I think my hubby would rather hang a large anime poster in our living room than that poster.
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doojable
I'd rather hang myself than that poster......(I already have some nice art there so don't worry ;))
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ChasUFarley
(I love Anime... old Robotech fan here....)
But I HATE that poster - ewwwwwwwwwwww!
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TheHighWay
Wow, dooj, I didn't realize that, but it makes so much sense.
I had to take an art class this year and we had to keep a sketch book. I have always had artistic abilities (lots of crafts, painting of objects, making of costumes, etc.) but have never had a real art class. I found that I could sketch things that other people had drawn (like birds, animals, book illustrations, etc.) but couldn't seem to transfer "real life" into a sketch, and couldn't seem to come up with my own ideas or images in any quality way. Anything I imagined I wanted to draw pretty much came out like a 4th-grader's cartoon. Your explanation helps put all that into perspective for me. Thanks!
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doojable
I love to teach this stuff. Thanks for appreciating it.
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HCW
My entire history in TWI was totally about creativity and the whole Word in Fine Arts thing.
I worked with Elena Whiteside, David Kraley, John Kish, Brian Heaney, Allison Heaney, Beth Lowder, Lonnell Johnson, Etc. We were at the center of TWI's creative efforts. Specifically in the visual arts & writing and all forms of the arts.
I came to work at HQ specifically to be a part of the whole creative thing.
It was NEVER Elena's goal to in any way squelch a person's creativity. What she wrote in the word in culture book was more about putting creativity in perspective. Perspective being that only God can create, in the sense of creating something from nothing. Literally being that only God can CREATE the colors that we humans use to MAKE a beautiful work of art that reflects creativity.
Therw was a lot of good in the Word in Fine Arts stuff we were doing. In fact, looking back, speaking totally for myself I'd say that it was the time & focus I spent on all of that stuff that kept me from "seeing" a lot of the crap that was going on elsewhere.
We artists were a sub-culture within the TWI culture. I spent a LOT of time hangin' out at the Kish's home when I was at HQ. We, all of us in the whole wird in fine arts movement worked really hard on being creative in our areas, from the dancers, to the writers, musicians, architects, sculpters, photographers, graphic artists, painters, woodworkers, etc., etc.
VPW actually pushed us towards quality and creativity. Back in the old days he/we/they used to say that a person's work had "heart." A lot of times the work stunk, but people put their heart into it. Origianlly VPW spoke of dreams of the ministry having God inspired professionals at every area in the ministry, specifically the artisans. We'd have meetings where he taught about the "cunning craftsmen" the Old Testament speaks about. The people who God inspired to design, build and do the decor of the temple, the ark of the covenant & stuff like that. He told us that our goal should be to be like them. VP was really into poetry and creative writing. Have you every heard his albums where he read creative writings? "The Mystery Train" "Love Letters" ??? How about Lonnell Johnson's book "Ears Near to the Lips of God" it was poetry, creative writing. TWI never had anything against being creative... until LCM & co. took over. In fact, VP told me personally and privately (in the motorcoach) that I was the artist (not him) and that when it came to the stuff I did, I should tell HIM what to do. All he could do was maybe point me in a direction, but it was God who would work in ME as to HOW to go about doing it because I am the artist.
I felt then, still do now, always have and always will believe that I've been gifted from God to be one of those "cunning" creative artisans the Bible speaks of. I leanred about that stuff through TWI and the WIFA movement. NOONE can take that away from me. Except me. I can put it down and walk away from it. However, if I do, it will torment me. Being an artist is like having a fire inside, if you don't deal with it it will deal with you.
Like so many other things, the work we did and were doing deteriorated through the '80s as LCM/Rosalie took over. The Word in Fine Arts/Word in Culture thing in TWI wasn't so much a VPW thing. People picked up that ball and we ran with it.
I'm saddened to hear that creatives were stifled by TWI.
Some of you guys know that I was on staff @ TWI HQ for 8 years. I also spent most of my two in residence years working in Divine Design at all of the other root locations. There was a lot of good work that we did in WIFA that was never completed and/or published widely through the ministry. Mostly because the events of VPW's death & LCM's rise to power & the Athletes of the Spirit thing & Chris Gear's POP thing ripped the ministry to shreds. Our stuff was relegated to the back burner and the people who were specifically doing whatever sorta took whatever with them when we all left TWI.
Personally. I wanted to come to TWI HQ to work because I heard VPW say on a SNS tape that TWI had hired this really great airbrush artist to do the America Awakes album cover because we didn't have a believer in the ministry who could do work of top professional quality. I was a junior in high school at the time majoring in commercial art in 1975. I was pretty good. A lot better than the work I'd seen come from HQ on old Way Magazines.
I wrote David Craley who was at the time editor of the way mag & asked him about coming to HQ on an internship when I was in art school. He invited me to come to HQ & meet w/ him & show him my portfolio. I didn't do the internship but he promised to consider me for a staff position after I graduated in 1978.
In the meantime, I contacted my Limb Leader (we were allowed to call them leaders then) and we created one of the first state coordinator positions for Word in Fine Arts, in Pennsylvania. I did that for a couple of years. What I did was contact "all" of the artisians in the state of PA and coordinate signage, etc. for statelevel ministry events. Local folk would do their own locan events and we would work together to decorate things like Heart Festivals, Limb meetings - stuff like that. I'd act as art director & assign projects, coordinate their delivery, set-up & tear down at the event. We did some pretty nice stuff.
After I came to HQ. Part of my job was to coordinate the event photography for ministry level events like ROA and some of the large classes like Living Victoriously. I'd communicate w/ photographers who came in from the field and coordinate shooting assignments to help insure that the entire event would be recorded photographically for the ministry's historical files.
We had quality standards in terms of wanting professional photgraphers to shoot the big events and a level of "spirituality" that we felt was acceptable in the photos, things we felt were publishable. The Degas painting critique mentioned earlier spoke of some of the things we deemed "spiritually OK" and not cool. It wasn't like we didn't understand basic and even advanced photographic composition, ldesign, lighting, etc. We did.
The deal about the legs of the dancer boxing in a maind object of composition, the dark eyes, etc, negative comments were things that represented some basic "ungodly" stuff.
For example:
We would never publish images of people in TWI publications where the eyes of the main image was obscured by darkness. It wasn't about a person having dark colored eyes. The idea is that God is light, the human body is the temple of God and therefore with the light of the body being the eye, painting an image of a human with darkness obscuring the eyes so that you couldn't see them, doesn't portray godliness. We wouldn't publish a photo where a major compositional element, ie a person's face was split by the edge of the frame, we crop the face all the way out of the picture. We wouldn't publish an image if there was, say a pole in the background that made it look like their hear was impaled on the pole. Bottom line was that we did our best to not publish images that didn't portray humans as God's best. We didn't do stuff like using dismembered body parts as compositional elements. Yes, we felt it ungodly to do stuff like that - intentionally.
It wasn't meant to be really heavy duty legalistic stuff, just our best effort to make people look good as opposed to bad. It was more our effort to have TWI pubs have a style than anything else. We felt that clean uncluttered composition was more Godly than cluttered confusing stuff. I did basically every photospread in The Way Mag from '79 - 1988 with those standards in mind.
I guess all this goes to say that the original thinking in TWI concerning the arts was that we wanted to encourage and inspire artisans to become truly God-inspired professionals. We studied master artisans not to tear them down but for the same reasons any artist studies the masters. We had some really good artists, and some that weren't as good. All in all we were a work in progress, we all knew that. At least those of us who were there, at the center of things. Speaking of masters there was a group of TWI artists that were actually studying with this master dude who had this atoille studio where he only accepted a few artist who wanted to study under his tutelege to do american realism or something like that. He'd do stuff and teach folks techniques the when you became really good you'd do these realistic paintings that looked so real that you felt you could eat the apple or pick up the knife off the table you'd just painted.
Personally I was like, "No thank you, I'll shoot a photo...."
Point being of all the perverse pervions in TWI, they perverted this one too.
Being creative is a GIFT FROM GOD.
If you've got it, develop it, GO for it with all you've got. Being creative IS being Godly. So freakin what if we can't actually "create." We CAN, however, BE creaTIVE. As an artist, just HOW can one be an imitator of God as a dear child without being creative?
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doojable
Thanks HCW
- With as much complaining as I do about those years in TWI, it's still good to hear what the behind the scenes perspective was back then.
It's a shame that more artists weren't exposed to some of the teaching and insight you just presented here. I still see lots of limitations, but I also see the heart of what was done.
Unfortunately, there was a hierarchy, and the information didn't get dispersed as well as it could have. I'm just thankful that I heard God when He told me to begin teaching and later to go back to painting. You're right about being an artist and having a fire inside.
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JavaJane
Just wanted to let you all know that I have begun editing a project I started years ago - started off like I was stuttering... But it got easier and easier to write.
got through 30+ pages in a little under a week!!
WHOOOO hoooo!!
I'm writing again!
Thanks to all of you who posted on this thread and who PMed me with words of encouragement.
That ol' debbil spitit called WRITER'S BLOCK has been cast out!!
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HCW
Yeah. Its a real shame that stuff never really got published.
One of the most exciting things (to me at least) that we did was this study on color-music harmony. They came up with a color chart (I don't know exactly wher it came from) where the different colors corresponded with music notes on your basic music scale. They had commissioned a series of paintings that they hung in the cafeteria at Emporia that were part of the culmination of the study.
The flying swans were composed so that they were actually notes on a sheet of music and the color palette was in the same "key" as the riff that the notes represented. WIth the chart one could actually do a painting in the key of "whatever." The idea was based on the theory that since music is pure emotion that you can hear, one could apply the same emotional principals to visuals and intentionally create a work of visual art that would convey the same visual emotion that a music cord does.
It was cool. I was actually going to do an illustration for the Way Magazine utilizing those principles and planned to do an article for the mag that spoke to the study, etc. After we'd gotten some feed back on they "results" from it. I'd done a couple of studies where I painted the same image in different "keys."
Never happened.
I got fired.
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doojable
Ya HCW - it seemed to me that that was the type of information that should have been made available to the artists.
I heard about the theory - but was never made privy to it. I even got to see the paintings.
In a sense, it still makes me a bit sad. There seemed to be a hierarchy in that information that shouldn't have existed.
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HCW
COOL.
ALL (true) creativity is from God. It is a gift that HE gives along with other gifts He gives other folks. Don't let an anal sphincter like LCM take that away from you.
I stayed w/ TWI for so long because I was sooo far under all that creativity stuff. VPW was REALLY into creativity and he had a real affinity w/us creative types. I think, looking back, and after hearing about other people's experiences, that we got his best. TWI was built on Way Productions and the creativity of the artists, musicians, research folk, architects, builders, etc. There were a lot of geniuses involved in every aspect of the ministry. VPW totally encouraged us all, he worked with us & guided the progress of a lot of folks & stayed out of the way while God worked in people to create some really great stuff.
LCM tried so much to be like VPW but he has a huge jealous streak, based on the fact that he never had true world class talent in the areas he wanted to be a world class talent in. Where VPW would give a direction to move in & get out of the way, LCM wanted to be hands on so that he could see himself in YOUR work.
I did the letterhead design for VPW's letters every year, he would have his secretary get me the rough version of the letter, I would extrapolate the theme from the letter and illustrate it as I saw fit. I'd show my illustration to him in its rough form & he'd OK it.
When LCM took over, I was doing the poster for Athletes of the Spirit. Craig changed it THREE times before I finally broke down and did basically what he said I should do. I had done the logo prior to the poster & basically LCM designed it. I was just the hands that did the artwork. He picked the reference shot that I used to do the illustration, HE decided what poses all of the people in the poster would be in HE decided what imagery and design elements the poster would contain. That poster had the same contrived look that lots of stuff we did then did.
The result of putting a creative artist in a box that a non-creative creates.
It seems LCM only got worse as time went by.
Part of his problem is that he was the schiznit in high school when he played football, basically because of his size he got over on the local dudes he played against. When he moved to Division 1A in college at Kansas and ran up against some REAL ballers - - he found out he was a second stringer at best. He became jealous of the guys who played ahead of him & when he became pres. he got his revenge. He made EVERYONE who was better than him in anything bow down under him.
He beat the talent out of everyone because he, himself has VERY limited talents. Typical Romans chapter 2 stuff. He imprisioned everyone to serve him.
Glad you're free now!
If you're writer, there's a rhythm to your soul that you just gotta let it flow.
Flow baby flow!
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HCW
Yeah. That stuff really flourished when the ministry blew up & changed from a quaint little movement in the cornfield to worldwide corporation.
I hated it.
It made me sad too. There was so much that was going on that people should have known about. I wanted to do so much more, but we were sooo busy with what we were doing everyday. I guess we thought that TWI would be around forever and that at some point we'd get around to doing all the stuff we wanted to the way we wanted to do it.
BUT. It was like there were two ministries happening simultaneously. The one where great stuff was happening and the one where all of the crap was going down. The ministry imploded right around us behind the crap.
BTW.
I have a copy of the color-music harmony chart. Again, its somewhere in a box in my basement.
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doojable
I'm a little more sceptical than you are. Since I knew you in-rez I'm not gonna go into all the things I felt was going on regarding the arts.
Suffice it to say that you're saying that there were two ministries is very correct.
I'm glad that I am able to use my gift and really make a difference. In the long run, that's what really counts.
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HCW
Saying "two ministries" was putting it kindly.
There was a LOT of stuff going on - a lot of people with their own agendas. Even when I was on staff, for as much as I was right in the middle of what was going on, in other ways I was COMPLETELY on the outside of some other stuff. Out and even locked out.
Agreed on the using your gift stuff & making a difference. BRAVO!
Isn't it "ironic" how some of the people who were making the biggest noise in the arts in the ministry were ones who were shall we say, "not as talented" as some on the outside...?
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doojable
Yeah - Just goes to show you - if someone tells you to put down your gift - tell them to stuff it.
I learned the hard way not to let anyone tell me how God wanted me to walk, talk, paint, teach, whatever.
If I weren't so convinced that God did reach me and TELL me what to do with my gift - I could be real bitter. As it is, I'm somewhat annoyed with that time in my life, because I was still so young that I didn't know any better.
My kids are getting a better view of how to use their gifts, and you better believe that they're fiesty too!
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another spot
HCW: The color scheme theory correlating to music keys actually came from Bullinger, although I don’t remember which book it was in. I used to have it. His idea was the colors would automatically have balance if they corresponded to music. Someone on twi staff took the theory and developed it by utilizing the colors in a prism. Part of the idea was to use major keys and avoid minor ones (considered depressing). So, C major being the first chord in the scale became red, yellow and blue. This used to be a handout in the ADV class. There was an admonition not to use black as it was thought to be the complete absence of light. I saw the paintings at Emporia during the ADV Class. They were pretty great. I particularly remember a very large landscape I liked the best.
In any case, I am an oil landscape painter (although I am comfortable with all mediums including graphics, calligraphy and pen and ink). I did a series of posters for the pfal class using the chords. Worked out nicely because there are 12 major keys and 12 sessions. Since I also play piano, it wasn’t difficult for me to figure out the colors belonging to the different keys. Later on, I was not allowed to do art work for the ministry because I wasn’t WC. So WC would do the artwork with no artistic ability whatsoever…but you know they were WC so it must be more godly.
I continue to use the chords sometimes. My favorite is blue-green, red-orange, and red-violet). The thing about using them is you have a balance of warm and cool and they are rather vibrant. I also prefer using odd numbers of things in my designs. Using 3 colors adds that composition element.
I use prism colors to achieve depth (small amounts say in green if it’s a field). What I really like about landscape painting is conveying sunlight in different ways and very often that is the focal point of my paintings, or rather there will be an item that is especially lit up, ie it has flat surfaces that catch a lot of light. So the light becomes a strong composition element of itself in addition to light, medium and dark colors.
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waysider
There are actually people who can "see" colors as various notes are played.
I don't know very much about this other than that it exists and it is not something they force into fruition.
As best I can tell, it must resemble that scene in "Fantasia" where the instruments play and colored images appear.
It's not a random type of thing. In other words, C# will always produce the same color. (We'll say purple just as an example) and it's tonal value will fluctuate based on how sharp or flat it is produced.
There are also people who have a type of perfect pitch that assigns minute values to slight variations.
Whereas the average musician can tell there is a half step between two particular notes, a person with one type of perfect pitch can tell you which notes they are. A person with a third type of perfect pitch can further break this down into hundredths(known as "cents") They can tell you that a note is A#+ 37 cents. This has been verified with digital tuners.
Personally, I have my days when I'm doing well to carry a tune in a tin bucket, regardless of said bucket's color.
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Cowgirl
TheHighway...............just read your post and I wanted to say don't give up with your drawings, just because you are looking at someone elses work and drawing something similiar doesn't mean you don't have the talent to draw, it comes with alot of practice and ALOT of artists just starting out learned to draw by copying someone else's artwork and then they went on to develop their own style. One artist that is world famous for children's illustrations, does the illustrations for the author Robert Munsch, his name is Michael Martchenko and that's exactly how he got started by copying other people's work, then he came up with his own, now his stuff is all over the world.
Go for it!!
Cowgirl
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hiway29
I've been enjoying this thread, especially HCW's insights and experience. I was 'on the fringe' of the arts in the way back then, attending the poiema 'advances' at HQ, hanging with some of the way artist's, and working on "Glad' magazine, which I'm not sure qualifies as 'art'. It was certainly SOMETHING.
I used to wonder about the validity of these teachings on color , light, composition. While I understood the thinking behind tearing apart Degas, I thought he was a genius for the very things he was criticised for. His work moved me alot more than the work that they seemed to approve of. It all seemed boring to me, and I couldn't stand the thought of limiting ones imagination. It made sense to me that a way publication would use these ideas. The thinking behind choosing photographs that HCW was talking about was very interesting and valid.
I didn't achieve anything worthwhile with art until I was free of the way. A huge reason being I was kept so busy running around to the endless meetings and responsibilities that I never had time to do anything. I also kept my sights low while in the way. The work I do now would have seemed impossible to me during those years. It really was difficult to strive towards 'worldly' goals, when it's reenforced daily how the world , and careers don't really matter, and most of the people you fellowship with are washing windows, and critical of anyone who puts personal goals above sitting through pfal for the 40th time.
I'm fortunate to have a job where I draw , draw, draw, and I'm happy and thankful every day. It's still a job, though, and I'm working to please an art director. I'm finding it's the work I do on my own, with noone to please but myself, that is the most personally rewarding. I also find it's the work most people respond to. I still don't have enough time to do what I really want, but at least it's of my own choosing.
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