Christian artists are taking the easy way out. Going for the bucks. I'm not talking about musicians here - I'm talking about the visual artists.
Think about it - suppose one picture could show the pain of abortion? No preaching. No guilt. Just an image with the simple clarity of that Rockwell painting.
We don't need to be preaching to the choir - that's for sure.
I'm sure you've heard of Thomas Kinkade - everyone has seen the little houses all lit up and the light houses, etc. I liked his work - but then his stuff was everywhere! When it started showing up on mousepads, toilet seat lids, and other common household items... reeking of "church lady" collections, I'd had enough.
When I first moved to NH, I had a job offer in the Seacoast area to manage one the Kincaid galleries in a nice mall here. It was in 2000, and I was offered a whopping $7.50/hour with no commission. I wasn't too impressed - no thanks. The gallery closed within 3 years. I think it was all due to saturation of the market -
That, and if you've seen a couple of his paintings, you've seen them all. His earlier stuff is more interesting to me than the latter stuff... but not marketed as much. '
Although I agree with your comments about the artists going for the bucks, I think Christians are so used to the saccharine (sp) art they've seen and have in their homes, that it would never fly with a lot of them...
I've always liked the picture where Jesus (I assume its him) is sitting on a hill overlooking Jerusalem (or some walled city) (It hangs in the PWA lobby)
He is alone and looks so peaceful. Looks like he's contemplating the work he's about to undertake, or reflecting on something in his heart. I really like it.
But sometimes I like to think he's sitting there sighing with relief thinking "Thank God I have different blood than those weirdos"
I'm sure you've heard of Thomas Kinkade - everyone has seen the little houses all lit up and the light houses, etc. I liked his work - but then his stuff was everywhere! When it started showing up on mousepads, toilet seat lids, and other common household items... reeking of "church lady" collections, I'd had enough.
When I first moved to NH, I had a job offer in the Seacoast area to manage one the Kincaid galleries in a nice mall here. It was in 2000, and I was offered a whopping $7.50/hour with no commission. I wasn't too impressed - no thanks. The gallery closed within 3 years. I think it was all due to saturation of the market -
That, and if you've seen a couple of his paintings, you've seen them all. His earlier stuff is more interesting to me than the latter stuff... but not marketed as much. '
Although I agree with your comments about the artists going for the bucks, I think Christians are so used to the saccharine (sp) art they've seen and have in their homes, that it would never fly with a lot of them...
Chas - Thomas Kinkade is the artist I refer to when I speak of little brighly lit cottages. His nephews went to school with my oldest. His sister-in-law ran his gallery here in town. He calls himself "the painter of light." That's just stupid IMHO. (The subject of another rant.)
His work changed for a reason - he stopped doing it all himself. He started to do something that Reubens had done. He started to get a stable of artists to paint all the "underpainting" and he just came in and painted the top layer. (Reubens did this with his apprentices) The thinking is that the top layer is all that the public sees anyway. The end result was paintings that were bad in many ways. Architects cringe when they see them. I cringe when I see the bad perspective and poor design.
He also made some bad business deals that affected the franchises he had set up around the country. I think, but am not sure, that he over sold his limitied edition prints. (Again, I'm not confident on this point - so take that with a whole salt lick.)
The gallery owner I work with quoted her Daddy as saying, "Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered." I believe that's what happened to Kinkade.
Yes, the market got flooded. On top of that you have other artists also painting scenes and adding scripture to the bottom (and doing a better job at it.) Many times the work is beautiful - but the addition of the scripture is in my opinion, a manipulation that the Christian public falls for. Now, maybe because most folks are so ignorant about art, that the addition of a verse at the bottom is sort of a subliminal, "Buy me! I'm Godly art" that helps clinch the deal.
As for what art will be accepted in Christian homes... I also agree that saccharine sells. OTOH people feel. They get depressed and cry out to God. They work through their stuff. I am convinced that although the market would take a while to come around - that there would be a market for some really fine work with cutting edge messages.
Two things:
1. The work needs to be well done - not schlocky, academic or amateurish. Hence my passion for teaching.
Many times the work is beautiful - but the addition of the scripture is in my opinion, a manipulation that the Christian public falls for. Now, maybe because most folks are so ignorant about art, that the addition of a verse at the bottom is sort of a subliminal, "Buy me! I'm Godly art" that helps clinch the deal.
Because, after all, how the hell are we supposed to know it's godly and edifying UNLESS you put a verse on it?
Years ago, around Christmas, I had the opportunity to stop and chat with a local Alaskan artist who had a kiosk containing her painted gold pans for sale. ( A Alaskan art form that is dwindling in popularity consisting of a black metal goldpan with a picture painted in the bottom.) I had admired her work for many years since she painted a wide diversity of scenes all with an original twist. I commented that I noticed that there were onlhy 4 or 5 scenes available for sale.
Sighing she confided that since she and her husband had decided to turn her painting into a much needed second income for their family, instead of a income producing hobby for her, she no longer could create spontaneous scenes for the commercial market. They had figured out that in order to make a viable go of it she had to paint 5 gold pans a day everyday. She soon found that she couldn't consistantly come up with original scenes especially complex ones and meet her "quota".
She settled on these five scenes as being the one people most often bought along with ease of painting etc.. She taught her husband how to do the underpainting and she would come along and add the mountains, cabin, northern lights etc.
She further confided that where once painting and been a joy in her life that she looked to for relaxation and renewal it had become a drudgery she dreaded and if she had to do it over she would never have gone commercial but the income was necessary.
About two years after this discussion I noticed that her gold pans and paintings had disappeared from the market and I have never seen her work since. I can only hope that she has regained the joy she once had in her painting.
Chas - what that picture really needs is a verse underneath it so we could all know whether or not it's edifying to be an a55 hole.
On a completely separate note - I was thinking today (something I try to do more and more) about daydreaming... I remembered a day long long ago when I was involved in an outreach program in twi... I was very young, out on my own for the first time, and I suddenly realized that I was no longer letting my mind wander. I was so proud of myself. I was no longer daydreaming.
Until that point oh so many years ago, I had been a daydreamer, letting my thoughts go where they wanted, thinking about all knids of things. After going into that program, I realized that I had so many other things to think about that all circuits were engaged (I thought at the time) with the WORD. This only flies if THE WORD is comprised of making sure your bed is made, that you witness to your quota of unbelievers, that your song leading was correct (smiling, correct count on the song, sit up straight, make eye contact with everyone in the room, etc.), that I was getting in the correct amount of time in the "word" (I put in quotes because this was also comprised of tapes and ministry publications), making sure basically that I was perfect in every possible way.
Since I am not Mary Poppins, who is only practically perfect in every way, I found that this perfection I was trying to acheive really took a heck of a lot of work and brain time. And boy was I proud that I had managed to use up so much of my brain that I didn't have time to think about anything else.
After the program was finished, I remember being corrected by a leader never to wish anyone "sweet dreams" when they went to sleep, because if you were dreaming, then you were not controlling your mind properly, or you had unfinished business from your day. A believer who was in fellowship with God would not need to dream. SO, since I had already stopped daydreaming, I started trying to stop dreaming at night as well.
Didn't work. Man, did I condemn myself for that one for a while, before I realized that the statement was totally ridiculous after I did some reading about what functions dream serve. I figured this leader was probably wrestling with condemnation as well, but when I talked to them about it they said that we dream but shouldn't remember our dreams.
Anyone else out there ever heard this one?
Anyway, I'm getting back to dreaming more - day and night. My brain is becoming a much more pleasant place to be. I forgot how much fun you can have in your head, you know?
It supposedly meant you had your spiritual trap door open.
I don't recall where I heard it, precisely, but I suspect it was one of those types of things that just seemed to "make the rounds" in TWI.
Ha!
Knew I had it somewhere. It was in my AC notes.
During the Advanced Class, VPW taught that in the Old Testament, God talked to His people through dreams because spirit was on, not in them.
He said ( I'm paraphrasing my notes) that since the Day Of Pentecost, God only talks to his people via spirit within and dreams are no longer a valid way for God to speak to his children unless they had gotten so far out of fellowship that they could not recognize revelation.(or if they were not yet born again)
Now honestly, given the foregone conclusion, who would want to admit they had experienced a dream?
The notes go on to talk about the trap door, etc. and how daydreaming allows the renewed mind to let down its guard, thus unlocking the trap door for devil spirit influence.
Sounds alot like "don't even consider" don't you think?
During the Advanced Class, VPW taught that in the Old Testament, God talked to His people through dreams because spirit was on, not in them.
He said ( I'm paraphrasing my notes) that since the Day Of Pentecost, God only talks to his people via spirit within and dreams are no longer a valid way for God to speak to his children unless they had gotten so far out of fellowship that they could not recognize revelation.(or if they were not yet born again)
If only someone remembered this in CES.....There would have been no spiders coming out of noses.
on the other hand - perhaps in the race to avoid "all things Weirwille" they ran too far in the other direction.
I too heard about the "undone business of the day," but I never thought any more about it. I figured that it was the mind setting itself back to neutral and working out circumstances.
So, that's how it was taught in VPW's class? Hmmmm, interesting.
In LCM's it was taught that a "dream" didn't really mean a "dream" but rather a "vision" that you had when you were awake and that God NEVER communicated to you while you slept.
Back to the daydreaming issue: I can understand the whole thing with not letting your mind wander all day long so that you really never know what is happening around you, and such, but it was carried to an extreme, much like the doctrines concerning dreams that you have while asleep.
If nothing else, the dreams you have while asleep would be worth examining just to know what you are dealing with on a subconscious level. If I had paid attention to that a little bit more, I think I might know myself a little bit better.
...I remember being corrected by a leader never to wish anyone "sweet dreams" when they went to sleep, because if you were dreaming, then you were not controlling your mind properly, or you had unfinished business from your day. A believer who was in fellowship with God would not need to dream. SO, since I had already stopped daydreaming, I started trying to stop dreaming at night as well.
Didn't work. Man, did I condemn myself for that one for a while, before I realized that the statement was totally ridiculous after I did some reading about what functions dream serve. I figured this leader was probably wrestling with condemnation as well, but when I talked to them about it they said that we dream but shouldn't remember our dreams.
Anyone else out there ever heard this one?
Oh hell yeah, heard that one too. Just another indication of the type and amount of control TWI tried to exert over its followers - even in our sleep!
I remember there were a couple of gals in my area who were on their WOW Vet/Apprentice WC year who were sharing a bedroom and had bunk beds in the room.
One night, the gal on the bottom bunk had a dream and in her dream (and in reality) she pressed her feet on the bunkyboard above her. She did it with such force that it caused the board to come out of the brackets and the gal above her nearly fell off the top bunk. I guess one of them hurt their ankle or something - I know there was an injury from it.
When the TC/BC they were living with found out about it, he roasted the gal who had the bottom bunk - had to know what she was dreaming about, etc. As it turned out, the dream was.... uh... let's just say an "adult" dream. Well, he went PURPLE screaming about it. The whole twig found out about it - he ran his mouth for days about it and even threatened to pull her from the WC program for it. She had to be embarassed to the hilt for it - I can't imagine if that was me.... good grief!
How incredibly stupid and arrrogant! To think that someone could get control of their dreams - and worst to think that anyone had the audacity to impose their own spin on someone's dreams is just ...welll.....insanity.
Oddly enough, I think that insanity is a by-product of not dreaming.......
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chockfull
We still get Hoho cards - like I want to see their fugly mugs. Somehow mine got thrown out before I could realize the true Photoshop value encased therein. But that there is a good idea!!!!! Maybe
JavaJane
Just an update... I now own and run my own business which involves a lot of culinary creativity... AND I joined the choir at my church. Sang in the Advent Concert. And just finished singing in my
doojable
OK I had to think some more.....
Christian artists are taking the easy way out. Going for the bucks. I'm not talking about musicians here - I'm talking about the visual artists.
Think about it - suppose one picture could show the pain of abortion? No preaching. No guilt. Just an image with the simple clarity of that Rockwell painting.
We don't need to be preaching to the choir - that's for sure.
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ChasUFarley
Is it the artists or the demand of the public?
I'm sure you've heard of Thomas Kinkade - everyone has seen the little houses all lit up and the light houses, etc. I liked his work - but then his stuff was everywhere! When it started showing up on mousepads, toilet seat lids, and other common household items... reeking of "church lady" collections, I'd had enough.
When I first moved to NH, I had a job offer in the Seacoast area to manage one the Kincaid galleries in a nice mall here. It was in 2000, and I was offered a whopping $7.50/hour with no commission. I wasn't too impressed - no thanks. The gallery closed within 3 years. I think it was all due to saturation of the market -
That, and if you've seen a couple of his paintings, you've seen them all. His earlier stuff is more interesting to me than the latter stuff... but not marketed as much. '
Although I agree with your comments about the artists going for the bucks, I think Christians are so used to the saccharine (sp) art they've seen and have in their homes, that it would never fly with a lot of them...
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WordWolf
There's others of similar concepts, like "the Smiling Jesus by the Sea".
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Bolshevik
I've always liked the picture where Jesus (I assume its him) is sitting on a hill overlooking Jerusalem (or some walled city) (It hangs in the PWA lobby)
He is alone and looks so peaceful. Looks like he's contemplating the work he's about to undertake, or reflecting on something in his heart. I really like it.
But sometimes I like to think he's sitting there sighing with relief thinking "Thank God I have different blood than those weirdos"
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doojable
Chas - Thomas Kinkade is the artist I refer to when I speak of little brighly lit cottages. His nephews went to school with my oldest. His sister-in-law ran his gallery here in town. He calls himself "the painter of light." That's just stupid IMHO. (The subject of another rant.)
His work changed for a reason - he stopped doing it all himself. He started to do something that Reubens had done. He started to get a stable of artists to paint all the "underpainting" and he just came in and painted the top layer. (Reubens did this with his apprentices) The thinking is that the top layer is all that the public sees anyway. The end result was paintings that were bad in many ways. Architects cringe when they see them. I cringe when I see the bad perspective and poor design.
He also made some bad business deals that affected the franchises he had set up around the country. I think, but am not sure, that he over sold his limitied edition prints. (Again, I'm not confident on this point - so take that with a whole salt lick.)
The gallery owner I work with quoted her Daddy as saying, "Pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered." I believe that's what happened to Kinkade.
Yes, the market got flooded. On top of that you have other artists also painting scenes and adding scripture to the bottom (and doing a better job at it.) Many times the work is beautiful - but the addition of the scripture is in my opinion, a manipulation that the Christian public falls for. Now, maybe because most folks are so ignorant about art, that the addition of a verse at the bottom is sort of a subliminal, "Buy me! I'm Godly art" that helps clinch the deal.
As for what art will be accepted in Christian homes... I also agree that saccharine sells.
OTOH people feel. They get depressed and cry out to God. They work through their stuff. I am convinced that although the market would take a while to come around - that there would be a market for some really fine work with cutting edge messages.
Two things:
1. The work needs to be well done - not schlocky, academic or amateurish. Hence my passion for teaching.
2. Hit the hard messages.
Good Gawd, I'm ranting again.
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JavaJane
Because, after all, how the hell are we supposed to know it's godly and edifying UNLESS you put a verse on it?
Oh, wait! that would require thought!
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ChasUFarley
JavaJane - you're so refreshing! Love it!
Dooj - you're not ranting at all - excellent points!
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templelady
Years ago, around Christmas, I had the opportunity to stop and chat with a local Alaskan artist who had a kiosk containing her painted gold pans for sale. ( A Alaskan art form that is dwindling in popularity consisting of a black metal goldpan with a picture painted in the bottom.) I had admired her work for many years since she painted a wide diversity of scenes all with an original twist. I commented that I noticed that there were onlhy 4 or 5 scenes available for sale.
Sighing she confided that since she and her husband had decided to turn her painting into a much needed second income for their family, instead of a income producing hobby for her, she no longer could create spontaneous scenes for the commercial market. They had figured out that in order to make a viable go of it she had to paint 5 gold pans a day everyday. She soon found that she couldn't consistantly come up with original scenes especially complex ones and meet her "quota".
She settled on these five scenes as being the one people most often bought along with ease of painting etc.. She taught her husband how to do the underpainting and she would come along and add the mountains, cabin, northern lights etc.
She further confided that where once painting and been a joy in her life that she looked to for relaxation and renewal it had become a drudgery she dreaded and if she had to do it over she would never have gone commercial but the income was necessary.
About two years after this discussion I noticed that her gold pans and paintings had disappeared from the market and I have never seen her work since. I can only hope that she has regained the joy she once had in her painting.
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doojable
My point precisely Java Jane! ;)
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ChasUFarley
Dooj...
This one is SPECIAL...
You're gonna want a copy of this on your wall!
Are you ready?
Are you sure?
HONEST?
OKAY... YOU ASKED FOR IT....
Do you see Jesus in this picture?
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doojable
No. But I do see LCM! (and a few other folks that will remain unmentioned ;)) Man! There's a crowd in there!
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TheHighWay
Holy crap, Chaz... that's one of the funniest things I've ever seen!!!
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Kevlar2000
Somehow, I'm reminded of what Mr. Wierwille said in the SNS tape, "The Red Thread": You find Him everywhere!
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JavaJane
Chas - what that picture really needs is a verse underneath it so we could all know whether or not it's edifying to be an a55 hole.
On a completely separate note - I was thinking today (something I try to do more and more) about daydreaming... I remembered a day long long ago when I was involved in an outreach program in twi... I was very young, out on my own for the first time, and I suddenly realized that I was no longer letting my mind wander. I was so proud of myself. I was no longer daydreaming.
Until that point oh so many years ago, I had been a daydreamer, letting my thoughts go where they wanted, thinking about all knids of things. After going into that program, I realized that I had so many other things to think about that all circuits were engaged (I thought at the time) with the WORD. This only flies if THE WORD is comprised of making sure your bed is made, that you witness to your quota of unbelievers, that your song leading was correct (smiling, correct count on the song, sit up straight, make eye contact with everyone in the room, etc.), that I was getting in the correct amount of time in the "word" (I put in quotes because this was also comprised of tapes and ministry publications), making sure basically that I was perfect in every possible way.
Since I am not Mary Poppins, who is only practically perfect in every way, I found that this perfection I was trying to acheive really took a heck of a lot of work and brain time. And boy was I proud that I had managed to use up so much of my brain that I didn't have time to think about anything else.
After the program was finished, I remember being corrected by a leader never to wish anyone "sweet dreams" when they went to sleep, because if you were dreaming, then you were not controlling your mind properly, or you had unfinished business from your day. A believer who was in fellowship with God would not need to dream. SO, since I had already stopped daydreaming, I started trying to stop dreaming at night as well.
Didn't work. Man, did I condemn myself for that one for a while, before I realized that the statement was totally ridiculous after I did some reading about what functions dream serve. I figured this leader was probably wrestling with condemnation as well, but when I talked to them about it they said that we dream but shouldn't remember our dreams.
Anyone else out there ever heard this one?
Anyway, I'm getting back to dreaming more - day and night. My brain is becoming a much more pleasant place to be. I forgot how much fun you can have in your head, you know?
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dmiller
Num 22:30
And the @$$ said unto Balaam,
[Am] not I thine @$$, upon which thou hast ridden ever since thine unto this day?
Was I ever wont to do so unto thee?
And he said, Nay.
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JavaJane
Oh, crap... That was toooooo funny, dmiller.
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dmiller
Butt --- now there's a verse *under it*. ;)
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waysider
JavaJane
RE: Your dream question
Yes, I also heard these things in the 1970s.
It supposedly meant you had your spiritual trap door open.
I don't recall where I heard it, precisely, but I suspect it was one of those types of things that just seemed to "make the rounds" in TWI.
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waysider
Ha!
Knew I had it somewhere. It was in my AC notes.
During the Advanced Class, VPW taught that in the Old Testament, God talked to His people through dreams because spirit was on, not in them.
He said ( I'm paraphrasing my notes) that since the Day Of Pentecost, God only talks to his people via spirit within and dreams are no longer a valid way for God to speak to his children unless they had gotten so far out of fellowship that they could not recognize revelation.(or if they were not yet born again)
Now honestly, given the foregone conclusion, who would want to admit they had experienced a dream?
The notes go on to talk about the trap door, etc. and how daydreaming allows the renewed mind to let down its guard, thus unlocking the trap door for devil spirit influence.
Sounds alot like "don't even consider" don't you think?
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doojable
If only someone remembered this in CES.....There would have been no spiders coming out of noses.
on the other hand - perhaps in the race to avoid "all things Weirwille" they ran too far in the other direction.
I too heard about the "undone business of the day," but I never thought any more about it. I figured that it was the mind setting itself back to neutral and working out circumstances.
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JavaJane
So, that's how it was taught in VPW's class? Hmmmm, interesting.
In LCM's it was taught that a "dream" didn't really mean a "dream" but rather a "vision" that you had when you were awake and that God NEVER communicated to you while you slept.
Back to the daydreaming issue: I can understand the whole thing with not letting your mind wander all day long so that you really never know what is happening around you, and such, but it was carried to an extreme, much like the doctrines concerning dreams that you have while asleep.
If nothing else, the dreams you have while asleep would be worth examining just to know what you are dealing with on a subconscious level. If I had paid attention to that a little bit more, I think I might know myself a little bit better.
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Kevlar2000
Oh hell yeah, heard that one too. Just another indication of the type and amount of control TWI tried to exert over its followers - even in our sleep!
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ChasUFarley
I remember there were a couple of gals in my area who were on their WOW Vet/Apprentice WC year who were sharing a bedroom and had bunk beds in the room.
One night, the gal on the bottom bunk had a dream and in her dream (and in reality) she pressed her feet on the bunkyboard above her. She did it with such force that it caused the board to come out of the brackets and the gal above her nearly fell off the top bunk. I guess one of them hurt their ankle or something - I know there was an injury from it.
When the TC/BC they were living with found out about it, he roasted the gal who had the bottom bunk - had to know what she was dreaming about, etc. As it turned out, the dream was.... uh... let's just say an "adult" dream. Well, he went PURPLE screaming about it. The whole twig found out about it - he ran his mouth for days about it and even threatened to pull her from the WC program for it. She had to be embarassed to the hilt for it - I can't imagine if that was me.... good grief!
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doojable
How incredibly stupid and arrrogant! To think that someone could get control of their dreams - and worst to think that anyone had the audacity to impose their own spin on someone's dreams is just ...welll.....insanity.
Oddly enough, I think that insanity is a by-product of not dreaming.......
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