Well said Johnny. Those mountains look gorgeous. I remember watching MSNBC lockup in Alsaka, and they said the prisoners there had very few violent incidents, which was generally attributed to the breathtaking scenery of the mountains. They should have a resort there instead of a prison!
And shoot, I remember one year when the politicians here in Juneau were making jokes at nice dinner gatherings and saying this one phrase; "Hey! This food is great! We're eating like prisoners!" Because, the prisoners at our Lemon Creek Correctional facility were getting halibut and king crab once a week! That practice has stopped thoough. At least the king crab anyway. But it hasn't stopped crossing our dinner table! Mmm! I catch 'em just north of here at Amalga Harbor. They are plentiful there, although the sport season is over for the year in that they are now spawing and their eggs are waiting to hatch out....
As much as I appreciate Hap4 what he is, I couldn't live in that area of Colorado if my life depended on it...it reminded me of DC -- a lot of the people seemed to have a self-imposed sense of importance and entitlement...to what I was never sure, but nonetheless, those aren't places I would want to make home.
i loved what WG said....that is what diversity is. I know lots of legal spanish speaker immigrant here in New Mexico...I don't blame them or get huffy about them wanting to live around pother spanish speakers---no difference for english speakers as far as I am concerned.
i did see a show last week that said Denmark scored the happiest people country abouve all others. the US was like -- 47th
Alas, Americans have more than anyone has ever had per capita, and find more to bytch about, probably in the same proportion. Perhaps it is because we are no longer thankful, or have nothing really important to strive for, other than the latest CD for our MP3 or whatever.
Thus, when a really good immigration wave happens, e.g., the Irish, or much later the Vietnamese, we complain loudly, then they and their culture and especially their hard hard work ethic, combine to flavor, color, and better America.
When I worked at the hospital in Columbus, there was a Wendy's in the ground floor. Their service and food were quite lackluster, until a little flock of young Mexican women got hired. Suddenly, food was hot, fast, and handed over with a shy smile.
Or the Greek guy, came over here at age 12 with his family, who bought a historic restaurant in the town where we used to live (Waysider will know where and maybe which one). Immediately, the place was cleaner and the service was better. Then the food was better, too. He knows the value of hard work and customer service, and has become quite an asset to the entire community.
I love the melting pot, I just think it needs a good stir sometimes, and not to be abused by thugs in the name of diversity.
dangit WG! I had to go look up "vituperation"... (but now I know a new word) :)
Dot certainly has every reason to feel the way she does and to communicate that. No one denies that. Last I checked so do others.
Jonny has his opinion, WG has her opinion, I have my opinion (and this is it)...
I'm sure Dot's very frustrated with (and most likely angry about) everything that's going on in her area. It's her home! her life! her future! I don't think anyone denies her the feelings that she has right now. I'd love to have a "civilized conversation" with Dot about the whole thing...
BUT
It's impossible for anyone to say (without others stirring up the pot, yeah particularly you Jonny):
"Dot, I know it's tough there... I can't begin to imagine how it must feel... but you're really making broad, semi-damning statements about people that hint of prejudice... I'd like to think that deep down you're not really that way and that these statements have been made out of extreme frustration... you don't really want to cut yourself off from the wonderful experiences you can have in life with a lot of diverse people just because of the actions of a few that are giving the others bad names do you?"
I'd love to say that without Jonny jumping in there and starting his "gangs=illegals" and "illegals=gangs" rants... but that's what Jonny always does. And then there are others that jump right in there with him.
AND, at least according to WateredGarden, ALL illegal immigrants are responsible for ALL uninsured motorist accidents! ALL OF THEM! There aren't any "legal" residents out there driving without insurance. Yes WG... that's what your post alluded to... you didn't come out and state it but you might as well have.
And for all of you jumping down HAPs throat... Dot, the whole point of HAPs post (read from my POV that's sitting on the sidelines) seemed to be that your STATE is pretty good for the criteria you mentioned and that MAYBE you could solve a lot of your problems, if you really do feel that moving is the only answer, by moving somewhere else within your state... or maybe even your county.
Dot,
As long as there's an America there's going to be illegal immigrants.
We have the greatest country in the world (IMO) and folks want to come here for the "dream"...
Most of them, a very high percentage of them, are wonderful "salt of the earth" types that you'd be proud to call your friend...
Most of them, a very high percentage of them, are no different than you or me except they didn't happen to have the good fortune of being born here...
I know it's hard to look at it this way but it's pretty much a "there but for the grace of God" thing...
I not only "hate" the current situation that you're in I hate that your current situation has made you want to "damn" entire sections of the population...
Is that really what you want to do?
That's the way this whole thing comes across to me... I truly don't know how I'd react if it happened in the area where I live, and I don't think others do either...
Maybe moving to another area is the answer (and it is if it feels right to you)... but don't let the actions of a few cut you off from experiencing life with those of other cultures, that's all I'm saying...
I'm thinking that you want to be judged based upon who you are and what you do, not to be pre-judged by others based upon their interactions with others like you whether those experiences were good or bad...
That's all... unfortunately I can't come on here and have that kind of dialogue with you (Dot) without "others" piling in and making it a war of tolerance vs intolerance...
Perhaps the reason this thread has degenerated into nasty sniping, is because Dot has put in black and white for all to see thoughts, that if the truth be told, are mirrors of what most of us desire White, Black, Asian,or Hispanic.
Truth is that honest, hard-working, law abiding citizens of this country, for the most part, want exactly the kind of community that Dot has outlined.
THe fact is that "Political Correctness" has so strangled this country that very few of us are willing to say outloud what we think for fear of being labeled "racist", "bigoted", or "predjudiced".
NEWS FLASH--wanting a clean, safe, neighborhood surrounded by people who, like yourself, are honest and hardworking is not wrong. The people who persist in flaunting this stranglehold that PC has created are those who have, for the most part,gone through life blaming others for their failures and rcumstances and expecting that government agencies care for them rather than picking themselves up doing for theselves.
I'm not talking about the ill or handicapped here--I'm talking about able bodied, men and women who spend their days whining about their lives while expecting others to fix them.
The thing I don't understand is why is it important for the people who contribute to society to be responsible to help change those who don't care about their environment?
Common sense seems to elude some people who want to take pride in their "colors" (blue, red, or whatever they are) to the fact that you shouldn't bother others with your crap or not let their actions affect others. It is a shame that the only sense of belonging would be to a gang. There are some who are passionate about helping these kids find a place in society outside a gang. God bless them. The others want to move away to a society that doesn't have that activity in it. God bless them too.
I also understand the frustration of speaking English in our own Country. I dont' see anything wrong with them learning English so they can communicate in our society. I also don't see anything wrong with them speaking their own language while in the presence of people in their own ethic background here or anywhere else as long as they don't require their chosen country to change. I thought that was the reason for neighborhoods like Chinatown? It allows people to be in an environment they like to speak a language they like. If people like me go there and don't speak their language, we just suffer through it. That's OK IMHO.
I'm sure there is more I want to say. I just don't understand why this issue has to be so black and white.
I was in the middle of writing this and had to go to a town meeting on the problems.
So, Hap when I mentioned that(paraphrase) I was having problems you gave me a link and I said it wasn't applicable as it was 2004 and it was the state of Georgia. Then, I think you defended your link and information with it being 7% and dismissed what I am telling you I am living througth, it seems you kept repeating it, in the first post you used the stats to say what I said wasn't true.
It ticked me off. You may have been trying to help but it seemed like you were arguing with me about where I live because of something you read. Illegals are not on the radar.
Anyway, you pi ssed me off. And I did not like the lady comment. If you were trying to help me - fine but you seemed to want to KNOW more about where I live than I did.
Dot, I know it's tough there... I can't begin to imagine how it must feel... but you're really making broad, semi-damning statements about people that hint of prejudice...
what statements were those? I missed them completely.
I'd love to say that without Jonny jumping in there and starting his "gangs=illegals" and "illegals=gangs" rants... but that's what Jonny always does. And then there are others that jump right in there with him.
AND, at least according to WateredGarden, ALL illegal immigrants are responsible for ALL uninsured motorist accidents! ALL OF THEM! There aren't any "legal" residents out there driving without insurance. Yes WG... that's what your post alluded to... you didn't come out and state it but you might as well have.
Jonny never said anything like what you just said. WateredGarden said nothing like what you claimed. Of course you'd like no one to respond ... when you make those outrageous statements.
Most of them, a very high percentage of them, are no different than you or me except they didn't happen to have the good fortune of being born here...
I know it's hard to look at it this way but it's pretty much a "there but for the grace of God" thing...
that is your philosophical view ... they are greatly different because of the culture they grew up in. The point of maintaining a national identity is that is something that our "national family" has built. Mexico is what it is because of what they have built. But as you say, everyone wants to come here. Why condemn people that expose the problems of bringing in large numbers of outsiders that are not becoming American?
I not only "hate" the current situation that you're in I hate that your current situation has made you want to "damn" entire sections of the population...
Is that really what you want to do?
WOW ... not judgmental at all ... NOT!
don't let the actions of a few cut you off from experiencing life with those of other cultures, that's all I'm saying...
you said a ton more than just that.
That's all... unfortunately I can't come on here and have that kind of dialogue with you (Dot) without "others" piling in and making it a war of tolerance vs intolerance...
You could have that dialogue with just her if you wanted, she would probably talk with you on the phone, but you want to make those remarks on an open forum, then preempt anyone from commenting back. My view is you are not only PC, but WOW over the top PC. Man ....
I of course I'm looking to purchase a house where the gays are buying. Those folks do amazing things for property values. Nothing like the eye of a good homosexual to revitalize neighborhoods and add curb appeal. Fabulous!
And look no kids!
I mean since we are generalizing it's okay to say that right?
Tom, you made some serious accusations on WG and Jonny and "others" based on statements you completely changed from what they said. Either back them up somehow (no way) or admit to it. Don't run away with "whatever" Oh, and you weren't very nice to Dot either ...
Rhino. My statements were based upon this thread and the other 'gang' and 'illegal' related threads that have been hanging around here where there's been a real strong gangs=illegals=gangs sentiment stated over and over...at least that's how I see it... I suppose things look different from Missouri.
You're welcome to your opinion.
I'm welcome to mine.
And I'm pretty sure I stated that Dot was welcome to hers as well.
You're welcome to comment, you're welcome to do whatever the heck you want.
Would that restaurant happen to be Buns', where the motto is "Dine here, diet at home"?
Never cared much for Delaware myself but then my experience was tempered by the Fellowlaborer program.
Used to be it was a 20 minute trip to Columbus. What is it today, about a day and a half?
I live on the far east side now and the area is very ethnically and racially diverse. The adults seem to have adapted well to the mix as have the younger kids. Tensions at the high school level, though,are running at an all time high. Part of that (IMO) is due to the new dress code that was to HELP the problem. (The overcrowding doesn't help either.)
The dress code is not universally enforced for fear that doing so might be viewed as racial bias. This isn't a problem the kids created but they know how to play the system.
We used to have a really low crime rate until Wal-Smart decided to build right beside the interstate. There is a direct correlation that can be seen here by simply looking at statistics and ignoring any personal bias that might taint the facts.
Anybody else experienced this phenomenon?
Now about the French. It wouldn't matter if you spoke the language perfectly, They would still hold you in contempt simply because you are American.
edited to add a word-----Oh, no! that's one of the dreaded downfall steps!
There is a special coming up here on illegal and immigrant problems in Beardstown... a small town close to me in Illinois. Sometimes there is an organized effort for illegals/recent immigrants to consolidate in certain small towns, much to the detriment of families that have been there for maybe 100 years, as mine has been here. You remember all those hunters killed in Minnesota? Could you perhaps be the one out of touch?
Also, I am now in Illinois, but I was in New Orleans for 15 years.
Thanks for trying to paint me as an out of touch Missouri mudfuc.. dweeb. I would like to become a country bumpkin, but those gang statements you now refer to were never about ALL illegals or ALL immigrants as you pretended. This is an important subject which I would be happy to continue.
There is a very large GLBT community in the Columbus, Ohio area. Beautiful historic homes on quaint brick streets, art galleries, terrific restaurants, and a vibrant night life. Still, the crime rate is deceptively appalling. Why? I haven't the slightest clue.
Point being, if you visited this area you would probably be impressed with its outward appearance. Behind the facade, however, hides a completely different world. I'll bet WG knows exactly where I'm talking about because it is not too far from her former employer.
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RottieGrrrl
Well said Johnny. Those mountains look gorgeous. I remember watching MSNBC lockup in Alsaka, and they said the prisoners there had very few violent incidents, which was generally attributed to the breathtaking scenery of the mountains. They should have a resort there instead of a prison!
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J0nny Ling0
And shoot, I remember one year when the politicians here in Juneau were making jokes at nice dinner gatherings and saying this one phrase; "Hey! This food is great! We're eating like prisoners!" Because, the prisoners at our Lemon Creek Correctional facility were getting halibut and king crab once a week! That practice has stopped thoough. At least the king crab anyway. But it hasn't stopped crossing our dinner table! Mmm! I catch 'em just north of here at Amalga Harbor. They are plentiful there, although the sport season is over for the year in that they are now spawing and their eggs are waiting to hatch out....
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washingtonweather
As much as I appreciate Hap4 what he is, I couldn't live in that area of Colorado if my life depended on it...it reminded me of DC -- a lot of the people seemed to have a self-imposed sense of importance and entitlement...to what I was never sure, but nonetheless, those aren't places I would want to make home.
i loved what WG said....that is what diversity is. I know lots of legal spanish speaker immigrant here in New Mexico...I don't blame them or get huffy about them wanting to live around pother spanish speakers---no difference for english speakers as far as I am concerned.
i did see a show last week that said Denmark scored the happiest people country abouve all others. the US was like -- 47th
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Watered Garden
Alas, Americans have more than anyone has ever had per capita, and find more to bytch about, probably in the same proportion. Perhaps it is because we are no longer thankful, or have nothing really important to strive for, other than the latest CD for our MP3 or whatever.
Thus, when a really good immigration wave happens, e.g., the Irish, or much later the Vietnamese, we complain loudly, then they and their culture and especially their hard hard work ethic, combine to flavor, color, and better America.
When I worked at the hospital in Columbus, there was a Wendy's in the ground floor. Their service and food were quite lackluster, until a little flock of young Mexican women got hired. Suddenly, food was hot, fast, and handed over with a shy smile.
Or the Greek guy, came over here at age 12 with his family, who bought a historic restaurant in the town where we used to live (Waysider will know where and maybe which one). Immediately, the place was cleaner and the service was better. Then the food was better, too. He knows the value of hard work and customer service, and has become quite an asset to the entire community.
I love the melting pot, I just think it needs a good stir sometimes, and not to be abused by thugs in the name of diversity.
WG
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Tom Strange
dangit WG! I had to go look up "vituperation"... (but now I know a new word) :)
Dot certainly has every reason to feel the way she does and to communicate that. No one denies that. Last I checked so do others.
Jonny has his opinion, WG has her opinion, I have my opinion (and this is it)...
I'm sure Dot's very frustrated with (and most likely angry about) everything that's going on in her area. It's her home! her life! her future! I don't think anyone denies her the feelings that she has right now. I'd love to have a "civilized conversation" with Dot about the whole thing...
BUT
It's impossible for anyone to say (without others stirring up the pot, yeah particularly you Jonny):
"Dot, I know it's tough there... I can't begin to imagine how it must feel... but you're really making broad, semi-damning statements about people that hint of prejudice... I'd like to think that deep down you're not really that way and that these statements have been made out of extreme frustration... you don't really want to cut yourself off from the wonderful experiences you can have in life with a lot of diverse people just because of the actions of a few that are giving the others bad names do you?"
I'd love to say that without Jonny jumping in there and starting his "gangs=illegals" and "illegals=gangs" rants... but that's what Jonny always does. And then there are others that jump right in there with him.
AND, at least according to WateredGarden, ALL illegal immigrants are responsible for ALL uninsured motorist accidents! ALL OF THEM! There aren't any "legal" residents out there driving without insurance. Yes WG... that's what your post alluded to... you didn't come out and state it but you might as well have.
And for all of you jumping down HAPs throat... Dot, the whole point of HAPs post (read from my POV that's sitting on the sidelines) seemed to be that your STATE is pretty good for the criteria you mentioned and that MAYBE you could solve a lot of your problems, if you really do feel that moving is the only answer, by moving somewhere else within your state... or maybe even your county.
Dot,
As long as there's an America there's going to be illegal immigrants.
We have the greatest country in the world (IMO) and folks want to come here for the "dream"...
Most of them, a very high percentage of them, are wonderful "salt of the earth" types that you'd be proud to call your friend...
Most of them, a very high percentage of them, are no different than you or me except they didn't happen to have the good fortune of being born here...
I know it's hard to look at it this way but it's pretty much a "there but for the grace of God" thing...
I not only "hate" the current situation that you're in I hate that your current situation has made you want to "damn" entire sections of the population...
Is that really what you want to do?
That's the way this whole thing comes across to me... I truly don't know how I'd react if it happened in the area where I live, and I don't think others do either...
Maybe moving to another area is the answer (and it is if it feels right to you)... but don't let the actions of a few cut you off from experiencing life with those of other cultures, that's all I'm saying...
I'm thinking that you want to be judged based upon who you are and what you do, not to be pre-judged by others based upon their interactions with others like you whether those experiences were good or bad...
That's all... unfortunately I can't come on here and have that kind of dialogue with you (Dot) without "others" piling in and making it a war of tolerance vs intolerance...
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templelady
Perhaps the reason this thread has degenerated into nasty sniping, is because Dot has put in black and white for all to see thoughts, that if the truth be told, are mirrors of what most of us desire White, Black, Asian,or Hispanic.
Truth is that honest, hard-working, law abiding citizens of this country, for the most part, want exactly the kind of community that Dot has outlined.
THe fact is that "Political Correctness" has so strangled this country that very few of us are willing to say outloud what we think for fear of being labeled "racist", "bigoted", or "predjudiced".
NEWS FLASH--wanting a clean, safe, neighborhood surrounded by people who, like yourself, are honest and hardworking is not wrong. The people who persist in flaunting this stranglehold that PC has created are those who have, for the most part,gone through life blaming others for their failures and rcumstances and expecting that government agencies care for them rather than picking themselves up doing for theselves.
I'm not talking about the ill or handicapped here--I'm talking about able bodied, men and women who spend their days whining about their lives while expecting others to fix them.
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Nottawayfer
The thing I don't understand is why is it important for the people who contribute to society to be responsible to help change those who don't care about their environment?
Common sense seems to elude some people who want to take pride in their "colors" (blue, red, or whatever they are) to the fact that you shouldn't bother others with your crap or not let their actions affect others. It is a shame that the only sense of belonging would be to a gang. There are some who are passionate about helping these kids find a place in society outside a gang. God bless them. The others want to move away to a society that doesn't have that activity in it. God bless them too.
I also understand the frustration of speaking English in our own Country. I dont' see anything wrong with them learning English so they can communicate in our society. I also don't see anything wrong with them speaking their own language while in the presence of people in their own ethic background here or anywhere else as long as they don't require their chosen country to change. I thought that was the reason for neighborhoods like Chinatown? It allows people to be in an environment they like to speak a language they like. If people like me go there and don't speak their language, we just suffer through it. That's OK IMHO.
I'm sure there is more I want to say. I just don't understand why this issue has to be so black and white.
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frank123lol
Midland Mi home of Dow chemical and theGreat Lake Loons
I t a leave it to beaver town.Dow is putting millons in a training center
Though it is cold here.Hey I had to throw my 2 cents in!
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Ham
Yeah.. no graffitti in Midland either.
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Tom Strange
I don't think my post had anything to do with political correctness... at least I didn't mean it to... just the way I feel.
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excathedra
dottie, i hope you find the greatest place
love you
tennessee and the vet school ?
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Dot Matrix
Thanks
Hap if I miss read you I am sorry.
I was in the middle of writing this and had to go to a town meeting on the problems.
So, Hap when I mentioned that(paraphrase) I was having problems you gave me a link and I said it wasn't applicable as it was 2004 and it was the state of Georgia. Then, I think you defended your link and information with it being 7% and dismissed what I am telling you I am living througth, it seems you kept repeating it, in the first post you used the stats to say what I said wasn't true.
It ticked me off. You may have been trying to help but it seemed like you were arguing with me about where I live because of something you read. Illegals are not on the radar.
Anyway, you pi ssed me off. And I did not like the lady comment. If you were trying to help me - fine but you seemed to want to KNOW more about where I live than I did.
Enough said
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excathedra
--
well, i didn't like how hap called you "lady" but maybe it's my english ;)
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rhino
what statements were those? I missed them completely.
Jonny never said anything like what you just said. WateredGarden said nothing like what you claimed. Of course you'd like no one to respond ... when you make those outrageous statements.that is your philosophical view ... they are greatly different because of the culture they grew up in. The point of maintaining a national identity is that is something that our "national family" has built. Mexico is what it is because of what they have built. But as you say, everyone wants to come here. Why condemn people that expose the problems of bringing in large numbers of outsiders that are not becoming American?WOW ... not judgmental at all ... NOT! you said a ton more than just that. You could have that dialogue with just her if you wanted, she would probably talk with you on the phone, but you want to make those remarks on an open forum, then preempt anyone from commenting back. My view is you are not only PC, but WOW over the top PC. Man ....Link to comment
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excathedra
i stay away from political threads.... i don't have the gift of words
what's the definition of "illegal"
is that so hard ?
also the bible says (cough), every man is right in his own eyes
including me
--
ps. this is a thread on where one wants to move
but i know i know i know
--
i believe in choo choo's
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Tom Strange
nice twisting Rhino... whatever...
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karmicdebt
I of course I'm looking to purchase a house where the gays are buying. Those folks do amazing things for property values. Nothing like the eye of a good homosexual to revitalize neighborhoods and add curb appeal. Fabulous!
And look no kids!
I mean since we are generalizing it's okay to say that right?
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excathedra
((((((((((((((((((((( karmie )))))))))))))))))))
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rhino
Tom, you made some serious accusations on WG and Jonny and "others" based on statements you completely changed from what they said. Either back them up somehow (no way) or admit to it. Don't run away with "whatever" Oh, and you weren't very nice to Dot either ...
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Tom Strange
Rhino. My statements were based upon this thread and the other 'gang' and 'illegal' related threads that have been hanging around here where there's been a real strong gangs=illegals=gangs sentiment stated over and over...at least that's how I see it... I suppose things look different from Missouri.
You're welcome to your opinion.
I'm welcome to mine.
And I'm pretty sure I stated that Dot was welcome to hers as well.
You're welcome to comment, you're welcome to do whatever the heck you want.
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waysider
WG
Would that restaurant happen to be Buns', where the motto is "Dine here, diet at home"?
Never cared much for Delaware myself but then my experience was tempered by the Fellowlaborer program.
Used to be it was a 20 minute trip to Columbus. What is it today, about a day and a half?
I live on the far east side now and the area is very ethnically and racially diverse. The adults seem to have adapted well to the mix as have the younger kids. Tensions at the high school level, though,are running at an all time high. Part of that (IMO) is due to the new dress code that was to HELP the problem. (The overcrowding doesn't help either.)
The dress code is not universally enforced for fear that doing so might be viewed as racial bias. This isn't a problem the kids created but they know how to play the system.
We used to have a really low crime rate until Wal-Smart decided to build right beside the interstate. There is a direct correlation that can be seen here by simply looking at statistics and ignoring any personal bias that might taint the facts.
Anybody else experienced this phenomenon?
Now about the French. It wouldn't matter if you spoke the language perfectly, They would still hold you in contempt simply because you are American.
edited to add a word-----Oh, no! that's one of the dreaded downfall steps!
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rhino
There is a special coming up here on illegal and immigrant problems in Beardstown... a small town close to me in Illinois. Sometimes there is an organized effort for illegals/recent immigrants to consolidate in certain small towns, much to the detriment of families that have been there for maybe 100 years, as mine has been here. You remember all those hunters killed in Minnesota? Could you perhaps be the one out of touch?
Also, I am now in Illinois, but I was in New Orleans for 15 years.
Thanks for trying to paint me as an out of touch Missouri mudfuc.. dweeb. I would like to become a country bumpkin, but those gang statements you now refer to were never about ALL illegals or ALL immigrants as you pretended. This is an important subject which I would be happy to continue.
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Tom Strange
I wasn't really trying to 'paint' you as anything Rhino, honestly I wasn't, I just thought you lived in Missouri... that's all.
And as I stated, when you couple this thread with those others, that's certainly how they look to me... obviously you have a different opinion.
I don't really understand your 'out of touch' reference (if it was directed at me)... I didn't accuse anyone of being out of touch...
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waysider
Karmicdebt
There is a very large GLBT community in the Columbus, Ohio area. Beautiful historic homes on quaint brick streets, art galleries, terrific restaurants, and a vibrant night life. Still, the crime rate is deceptively appalling. Why? I haven't the slightest clue.
Point being, if you visited this area you would probably be impressed with its outward appearance. Behind the facade, however, hides a completely different world. I'll bet WG knows exactly where I'm talking about because it is not too far from her former employer.
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