Isn't that the coolest? Even the dentist was shocked. I was not acting like a crazy person -- he was saying you're okay?
So cool huh?
I also told the dentist about the prayer. He is also hubs dentist and knows of the seizures -- I told him about your prayer and what you saw -- he thinks I should tell the neurologist.
Dentist here comes a calm patient! Woooo Wooo
It was GREAT!!!
I mean nothing like you teaching in India, but certainly awesome for me!
Wow Dot! That really is cool. Thanks for sharing it. God is so great to confirm His Word with signs following.
Funny, but most or some people would think after he prayed -- well, I guess God didn't want to touch that problem, or I guess he didn't get revvy on it. Ya know, pulling a negative. Or Wayisms -- maybe I wasn't good enough or BELIEVING enough -- all the old crap.
Awful how TWI even made prayer hard, condemning, or even mechanical.
I was very into prayer long before TWI so my damage in that area was minimal. I was lucky. (In othe areas, I was the worst -- like when they pushed me toward suicide, I had such little self-worth -- I guess I thought it might be a good thing.)
Anyway, I figured he prayed for everything he was suppose to pray for, and it turns out he prayed on CAUSE rather than effect. I am seeing a lot of deliverance I did not expect.
I'm a "newbie" at the cafe, been silently lurking in the shadows at the back of the cafe reading posts and feeling the place out for a while, and I have to say it has been a PLEASURE to hear everything people have had to say, whether I agree with them personally or not.
I have had a similar problem to Bolshevik... Prayer within the fellowship for so many years (won't tell you HOW many, just that it was a lot) was so stilted that I still have problems within my private prayer life. I don't find myself WANTING to pray because when I do I slip back into the old "lift list" mentality - which isn't so much a prayer as was stated previously, just a listing of needs... After thinking about it, it reminded me of when I would pray before going to bed when I was probably a preschooler (before my family got in "the Word".)
"God bless Mommy and Daddy and Auntie and Uncle and Grandma and Grandad and Doggie and Kitty... Amen"
It almost seems like a chore in some cases. Any advice on how to share your heart with God more would be great. I don't think it's supposed to be as boring as I have made it.
Once again, thanks for having me. You will be hearing much from me in the future, I am sure.
Personally, I felt that if God was, in fact, the Father we were taught that he was, then I should be able to talk to him like I did my own dad. God knows the hairs on your head, so why wouldn't he accept who you were in your prayers, warts and all? TWI got hung up on the mechanics and not on the heart - heart is what makes you... you. It's what makes us tick. We're all going to be different. Why not just let you hair down and TALK to God - have a conversation with him. Try it. Yeah, I sound kooky for suggesting it, I'm sure, but what do you have to lose? He wants you to come freely to him - so why not do it?
I'm a "newbie" at the cafe, been silently lurking in the shadows at the back of the cafe reading posts and feeling the place out for a while, and I have to say it has been a PLEASURE to hear everything people have had to say, whether I agree with them personally or not.
I have had a similar problem to Bolshevik... Prayer within the fellowship for so many years (won't tell you HOW many, just that it was a lot) was so stilted that I still have problems within my private prayer life. I don't find myself WANTING to pray because when I do I slip back into the old "lift list" mentality - which isn't so much a prayer as was stated previously, just a listing of needs... After thinking about it, it reminded me of when I would pray before going to bed when I was probably a preschooler (before my family got in "the Word".)
"God bless Mommy and Daddy and Auntie and Uncle and Grandma and Grandad and Doggie and Kitty... Amen"
It almost seems like a chore in some cases. Any advice on how to share your heart with God more would be great. I don't think it's supposed to be as boring as I have made it.
Once again, thanks for having me. You will be hearing much from me in the future, I am sure.
That was good Chas...I agree with you that we should simply "talk to God"...forget the King James language when you do it too...
It's a personal thing that begins with the understanding that He knows you better than you do...
...I think that sometimes crying is a form of prayer...laughing, sighing, being angry, being remorseful...all forms of prayer if they are in acknowledgement of His presence and you are directing them towards Him...it requires faith...not ceremony...oh yeah, and being thankful has "something" to do with it too...
I have done all sorts of things to awaken my prayer life:
I've cried and laughed, talked, yelled. Like Chas and Groucho suggested. I have also been known to just write out a long journal entry and then read it out loud. I know this sounds stilted - but when I write I tend to say things that I normally wouldn't say out loud - both good and bad......
One time I ended up on my knees after one of these prayers. I'm not saying that this is a must - but when I'm most in despair it seems that making myself completely submissive and vulnerable gets my head right.
There is no recipe - the main thing is to engage your heart and your soul. IMHO
I am NEVER without coffee. I think I was born with it in my blood (or at least that's what my Mamma said.)
As for the avatar... "Is the planet shaking, or is that just me?"
Chas - thanks for the compliment...
And Groucho - the few times in the recent past I have found myself praying with depth have been in the midst of BIG emotions... Rage, sadness, extreme happiness. At those points, I have no problem breaking the facade and being me.
I think it has so much to do too with the idea that we are to "control" [translation: do not have] emotions.
In the back of my mind there still that annoying voice saying "You've walked out of the Household and therefore God's protection, your prayers are worthless, how dare you"
In the back of my mind there still that annoying voice saying "You've walked out of the Household and therefore God's protection, your prayers are worthless, how dare you"
Sure you're not playing that audio clip that's lying around here somewhere?
Sure you're not playing that audio clip that's lying around here somewhere?
You can hear it too?
I jest. But I do often feel when I start to pray privately, that I'm in another reproof session. I think someone already mentioned the prayer judging that went on. I think it'll wear off.
That mantra was very popular when I was in - I can't tell you how frozen in fear I was the night I called the BC to say, "I'm done here!" Then, whenever anything would go wrong - like the car got a flat - then I'd wonder if that would have happened if I had been in the household still. But when things were right - gee, why did that happen? <_<
I finally got it that being in the household wasn't a magical Karma meter for why things went right or wrong in the world. Crap still happened. Good things still happened. And there was no real difference in the equasion other than what I was thinking about in my own head about the household. God wasn't going to change because I was no longer with TWI... so why did I assume he was suddenly out to get me because I wasn't with a money squandering cult in OH that sowed fear in people's hearts?
Yes, God wants to pee in your cornflakes because you're no longer with The Way.
Personally, the longer I was out of TWI, I believe I saw more good things happen in life because I was able to make decisions on my own and not worry about how someone could call me up at anytime to scream at me about something that didn't amount to a rat's anus. I was more confident in myself and happier - why would that be a sin? Far from it.
Amazing how many people here have said their prayer life has picked up and they feel free to express emotions.
Too many ritual prayers... We were taught not to say "Our Father, which art in heaven..." and then taught a whole load of new prayers which did become just as repetitive. Yes, it is good to pray for so many of the things that are prayed for... but the heart really wasn't there sometimes, just another ritual. And so much inward-looking prayer, not prayers of thankfulness - as if God were our servant, not the other way around. You would never speak to a person standing in front of you in that terminology.
As a newish PFAL grad I got reproved for saying the "wrong" thing in manifestations (right there and then) - but then this character loved being "spiritually sharp" and jumping on people (as far as I know, the person is still with TWI). And I have seen people "reproved" for not using the right "formula" in what is clearly a heart-felt prayer. (How egotistical is that? (shudder))
Life has been wonderful since I learned to pray again. Quiet time with God is so refreshing... pressing the "re-set" button on life.
To some extent it seems to me that life is a prayer, as we set our hearts to do our best according to what we know, and desire and strive to walk correctly, lovingly and manifest those Galatians fruits.
My results from reading the thread have been refreshing, too....
See, when I was laying awake in bed last night I started thinking... and the thinking turned into talking to God about what I thought. I tried really hard not to filter what I was saying for doctrinal errors or so that I was praying while being in alignment and harmony... having needs and wants paralel... I just let God know how I feel.
Now, admittedly, I did fall into a little of the old pattern of simply listing needs with a "thank you for..." in front, but when I realized it, I went back to simply having a real conversation.
And some of the burdens went away. Because I was honest. I mean what the hey - It's not like He doesn't know what I'm thinking already!
Thanks to all who have posted on this thread. Please keep it coming. It's helping me if not anybody else!
Well this is an interesting thread. I just go talk to God and thank Him for all His blessings to me in my life. And I tell Him how I'm doing and what's going on in my life, my husbands life, my son's life, my grandchildrens life, my friends lives, the world, how much I love Him, how I'm feeling about things. Is that praying?
Does anyone have a mind picture of going to God and talking to Him? Or Jesus Christ?
In the back of my mind there still that annoying voice saying "You've walked out of the Household and therefore God's protection, your prayers are worthless, how dare you"
I look forward to that little thought going away.
Though I still value much of what I learned in TWI and PFAL, and I found that TWI taught me a lot about how to pray effectively
(reference my first post on this thread), I think that one thing that some people really emphasized was a gross error i.e. that people in churches didn't get prayers answered because they didn't have as much knowledge as we did. John and I went to a church for a while after we left TWI and there were people there that had a pefectly good (in fact GREAT) prayer life, and even people that (choke, gasp) received revelation. I think that there were some people in TWI that missed the point of PFAL and began to worship knowledge instead of seeing that the point was to know God. And it does seem to me that prayer is just a conversation between the individual believer and his heavenly Father and that therefore there is no real RIGHT way to pray but rather just as many right ways to pray as there are individual believers, and that God is capable of hearing, understanding perfectly, and responding to all of them. You should dare because Jesus Christ died to give you access to God's throne of grace, and that hasn't ended because anyone left any particular ministry.
I'm buying my first ever house (with a mortgage, gasp, but the tale of that is another story). Things have chugged on slowly and today it became obvious that the seller is having some serious problems in her personal life. That's not helping matters to proceed. And that makes difficulties for me.
I got a bit wound up and took myself off for a bit of a walk to talk it over with my Dad. I found myself just praying for that lass's comfort and for her needs to be met; for her to be soothed over what she is going through and her being able to focus on what she has to do now to help herself.
So much nicer than the "God, fix my problem" sort of prayer. So much more soothing and peaceful to pray for someone else and be outward-looking not inward - with her wellbeing at heart. TWI not only forgot that we are to be servants, they never taught that we are to serve by praying for others. Especially unbelievers.
It used to hit me that the way we were taught to pray in TWI basically put God in the role of puppet with us as his puppet masters.
That's sick!
Now I am much more humble and honest when I pray. I treat prayer like a conversation. I have to be painfully honest, painfully vulnerable and humble with God and myself. The end result is that I have found that I am much more honest and vulnerable in my daily life. Not that I'm a pushover....but I try not to put on airs.
I still screw up on a regular basis - but I am quick to apologize, quick to own my mistakes. For me this all goes into a healthy prayer life. I try not to have different personnae. In other words, it seems to me that it's all too easy to act one way in your daily life and then try to go to God in prayer and become a completely different person. I'm striving for consistency.
So much nicer than the "God, fix my problem" sort of prayer. So much more soothing and peaceful to pray for someone else and be outward-looking not inward - with her wellbeing at heart. TWI not only forgot that we are to be servants, they never taught that we are to serve by praying for others. Especially unbelievers.
When the space shuttle Columbia incident occurred, we had a prayer for the families of the those involved during the noon meal at HQ. I remember a lot of people being a little uneasy and scratching their heads.
It was something different than we were all used too.
When the space shuttle Columbia incident occurred, we had a prayer for the families of the those involved during the noon meal at HQ. I remember a lot of people being a little uneasy and scratching their heads.
It was something different than we were all used too.
Yeah, like when we heard that they were giving money to the tsunami victims...
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Bolshevik
Thanks everyone for your posts!
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wrdsandwrks
Wow Dot! That really is cool. Thanks for sharing it. God is so great to confirm His Word with signs following.
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Dot Matrix
Wrd
Funny, but most or some people would think after he prayed -- well, I guess God didn't want to touch that problem, or I guess he didn't get revvy on it. Ya know, pulling a negative. Or Wayisms -- maybe I wasn't good enough or BELIEVING enough -- all the old crap.
Awful how TWI even made prayer hard, condemning, or even mechanical.
I was very into prayer long before TWI so my damage in that area was minimal. I was lucky. (In othe areas, I was the worst -- like when they pushed me toward suicide, I had such little self-worth -- I guess I thought it might be a good thing.)
Anyway, I figured he prayed for everything he was suppose to pray for, and it turns out he prayed on CAUSE rather than effect. I am seeing a lot of deliverance I did not expect.
God is Great!
Polar bear
Got the giggles on that one.
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JavaJane
Hello, Bolshevik and All...
I'm a "newbie" at the cafe, been silently lurking in the shadows at the back of the cafe reading posts and feeling the place out for a while, and I have to say it has been a PLEASURE to hear everything people have had to say, whether I agree with them personally or not.
I have had a similar problem to Bolshevik... Prayer within the fellowship for so many years (won't tell you HOW many, just that it was a lot) was so stilted that I still have problems within my private prayer life. I don't find myself WANTING to pray because when I do I slip back into the old "lift list" mentality - which isn't so much a prayer as was stated previously, just a listing of needs... After thinking about it, it reminded me of when I would pray before going to bed when I was probably a preschooler (before my family got in "the Word".)
"God bless Mommy and Daddy and Auntie and Uncle and Grandma and Grandad and Doggie and Kitty... Amen"
It almost seems like a chore in some cases. Any advice on how to share your heart with God more would be great. I don't think it's supposed to be as boring as I have made it.
Once again, thanks for having me. You will be hearing much from me in the future, I am sure.
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ChasUFarley
JavaJane - love the handle - welcome!
Personally, I felt that if God was, in fact, the Father we were taught that he was, then I should be able to talk to him like I did my own dad. God knows the hairs on your head, so why wouldn't he accept who you were in your prayers, warts and all? TWI got hung up on the mechanics and not on the heart - heart is what makes you... you. It's what makes us tick. We're all going to be different. Why not just let you hair down and TALK to God - have a conversation with him. Try it. Yeah, I sound kooky for suggesting it, I'm sure, but what do you have to lose? He wants you to come freely to him - so why not do it?
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Bolshevik
Welcome JavaJane
I see you've brought your own coffee.
What's that say on your avatar? (on the bottom)
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GrouchoMarxJr
That was good Chas...I agree with you that we should simply "talk to God"...forget the King James language when you do it too...
It's a personal thing that begins with the understanding that He knows you better than you do...
...I think that sometimes crying is a form of prayer...laughing, sighing, being angry, being remorseful...all forms of prayer if they are in acknowledgement of His presence and you are directing them towards Him...it requires faith...not ceremony...oh yeah, and being thankful has "something" to do with it too...
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doojable
I have done all sorts of things to awaken my prayer life:
I've cried and laughed, talked, yelled. Like Chas and Groucho suggested. I have also been known to just write out a long journal entry and then read it out loud. I know this sounds stilted - but when I write I tend to say things that I normally wouldn't say out loud - both good and bad......
One time I ended up on my knees after one of these prayers. I'm not saying that this is a must - but when I'm most in despair it seems that making myself completely submissive and vulnerable gets my head right.
There is no recipe - the main thing is to engage your heart and your soul. IMHO
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JavaJane
I am NEVER without coffee. I think I was born with it in my blood (or at least that's what my Mamma said.)
As for the avatar... "Is the planet shaking, or is that just me?"
Chas - thanks for the compliment...
And Groucho - the few times in the recent past I have found myself praying with depth have been in the midst of BIG emotions... Rage, sadness, extreme happiness. At those points, I have no problem breaking the facade and being me.
I think it has so much to do too with the idea that we are to "control" [translation: do not have] emotions.
... or was that EMOTICONS?
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Bolshevik
In the back of my mind there still that annoying voice saying "You've walked out of the Household and therefore God's protection, your prayers are worthless, how dare you"
I look forward to that little thought going away.
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JavaJane
Sure you're not playing that audio clip that's lying around here somewhere?
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Bolshevik
You can hear it too?
I jest. But I do often feel when I start to pray privately, that I'm in another reproof session. I think someone already mentioned the prayer judging that went on. I think it'll wear off.
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GrouchoMarxJr
It will...it really will. :)
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ChasUFarley
It will go away.
That mantra was very popular when I was in - I can't tell you how frozen in fear I was the night I called the BC to say, "I'm done here!" Then, whenever anything would go wrong - like the car got a flat - then I'd wonder if that would have happened if I had been in the household still. But when things were right - gee, why did that happen? <_<
I finally got it that being in the household wasn't a magical Karma meter for why things went right or wrong in the world. Crap still happened. Good things still happened. And there was no real difference in the equasion other than what I was thinking about in my own head about the household. God wasn't going to change because I was no longer with TWI... so why did I assume he was suddenly out to get me because I wasn't with a money squandering cult in OH that sowed fear in people's hearts?
Yes, God wants to pee in your cornflakes because you're no longer with The Way.
Personally, the longer I was out of TWI, I believe I saw more good things happen in life because I was able to make decisions on my own and not worry about how someone could call me up at anytime to scream at me about something that didn't amount to a rat's anus. I was more confident in myself and happier - why would that be a sin? Far from it.
You just need time to decompress.
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Twinky
What an interesting and refreshing topic!
Amazing how many people here have said their prayer life has picked up and they feel free to express emotions.
Too many ritual prayers... We were taught not to say "Our Father, which art in heaven..." and then taught a whole load of new prayers which did become just as repetitive. Yes, it is good to pray for so many of the things that are prayed for... but the heart really wasn't there sometimes, just another ritual. And so much inward-looking prayer, not prayers of thankfulness - as if God were our servant, not the other way around. You would never speak to a person standing in front of you in that terminology.
As a newish PFAL grad I got reproved for saying the "wrong" thing in manifestations (right there and then) - but then this character loved being "spiritually sharp" and jumping on people (as far as I know, the person is still with TWI). And I have seen people "reproved" for not using the right "formula" in what is clearly a heart-felt prayer. (How egotistical is that? (shudder))
Life has been wonderful since I learned to pray again. Quiet time with God is so refreshing... pressing the "re-set" button on life.
To some extent it seems to me that life is a prayer, as we set our hearts to do our best according to what we know, and desire and strive to walk correctly, lovingly and manifest those Galatians fruits.
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JavaJane
My results from reading the thread have been refreshing, too....
See, when I was laying awake in bed last night I started thinking... and the thinking turned into talking to God about what I thought. I tried really hard not to filter what I was saying for doctrinal errors or so that I was praying while being in alignment and harmony... having needs and wants paralel... I just let God know how I feel.
Now, admittedly, I did fall into a little of the old pattern of simply listing needs with a "thank you for..." in front, but when I realized it, I went back to simply having a real conversation.
And some of the burdens went away. Because I was honest. I mean what the hey - It's not like He doesn't know what I'm thinking already!
Thanks to all who have posted on this thread. Please keep it coming. It's helping me if not anybody else!
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Bolshevik
ditto
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Edi
Well this is an interesting thread. I just go talk to God and thank Him for all His blessings to me in my life. And I tell Him how I'm doing and what's going on in my life, my husbands life, my son's life, my grandchildrens life, my friends lives, the world, how much I love Him, how I'm feeling about things. Is that praying?
Does anyone have a mind picture of going to God and talking to Him? Or Jesus Christ?
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Jeaniam
Though I still value much of what I learned in TWI and PFAL, and I found that TWI taught me a lot about how to pray effectively
(reference my first post on this thread), I think that one thing that some people really emphasized was a gross error i.e. that people in churches didn't get prayers answered because they didn't have as much knowledge as we did. John and I went to a church for a while after we left TWI and there were people there that had a pefectly good (in fact GREAT) prayer life, and even people that (choke, gasp) received revelation. I think that there were some people in TWI that missed the point of PFAL and began to worship knowledge instead of seeing that the point was to know God. And it does seem to me that prayer is just a conversation between the individual believer and his heavenly Father and that therefore there is no real RIGHT way to pray but rather just as many right ways to pray as there are individual believers, and that God is capable of hearing, understanding perfectly, and responding to all of them. You should dare because Jesus Christ died to give you access to God's throne of grace, and that hasn't ended because anyone left any particular ministry.
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Twinky
I'm buying my first ever house (with a mortgage, gasp, but the tale of that is another story). Things have chugged on slowly and today it became obvious that the seller is having some serious problems in her personal life. That's not helping matters to proceed. And that makes difficulties for me.
I got a bit wound up and took myself off for a bit of a walk to talk it over with my Dad. I found myself just praying for that lass's comfort and for her needs to be met; for her to be soothed over what she is going through and her being able to focus on what she has to do now to help herself.
So much nicer than the "God, fix my problem" sort of prayer. So much more soothing and peaceful to pray for someone else and be outward-looking not inward - with her wellbeing at heart. TWI not only forgot that we are to be servants, they never taught that we are to serve by praying for others. Especially unbelievers.
(edited for italics)
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johniam
Great post, Twinky. Good points.
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doojable
It used to hit me that the way we were taught to pray in TWI basically put God in the role of puppet with us as his puppet masters.
That's sick!
Now I am much more humble and honest when I pray. I treat prayer like a conversation. I have to be painfully honest, painfully vulnerable and humble with God and myself. The end result is that I have found that I am much more honest and vulnerable in my daily life. Not that I'm a pushover....but I try not to put on airs.
I still screw up on a regular basis - but I am quick to apologize, quick to own my mistakes. For me this all goes into a healthy prayer life. I try not to have different personnae. In other words, it seems to me that it's all too easy to act one way in your daily life and then try to go to God in prayer and become a completely different person. I'm striving for consistency.
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Bolshevik
When the space shuttle Columbia incident occurred, we had a prayer for the families of the those involved during the noon meal at HQ. I remember a lot of people being a little uneasy and scratching their heads.
It was something different than we were all used too.
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JavaJane
Yeah, like when we heard that they were giving money to the tsunami victims...
There are some changes happening for the good.
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