That's my vote and, frankly, I wish she'd just write the "thank you " letter to GSpot for all the ideas we've given her over the years. But, the lawyers probably wouldn't approve of that. :P
When the space shuttle Columbia incident occurred, we had a prayer for the families of the those involved during the noon meal at HQ. I remember a lot of people being a little uneasy and scratching their heads.
It was something different than we were all used too.
It is a hard pill for wayfers to swallow since they only pray for the BEST situations and the BEST household. I got reproved for praying for baby Jessica in twig one year. Baby Jessica had fallen down a well in Midland, Texas, around 1987 or so. She was down in the well for days. I lived in Midland at that time, so the story hit close to my heart. I was told that she didn't have God's protection because her parents were unbelievers.
Yep. Shortly before my ex chose TWI over his "unalterable commitment" to me I prayed out "If it's Your will, God...."
Talk about getting yelled at! WTF do you think you're doing? "IF" it's God's will? IF? WTF kind of prayer is that? Have you already forgotten everything you've ever learned from TWI? Is the devil taking over that quickly?
Geeze.... how DARE me pray that I'd like to see things work out according to His will. :wacko:
Praying FOR someone outside "THE household" is definitely a foreign concept. I suspect it was like fingernails on the chalkboard to most people. That old crooked handlebar of a bicycle.
Those of you trying to put off old habits learned in twi, try praying in Jesus' name. You'll find that God still hears you, and He will even answer you. There's nothign wrong with praying in the name of Jesus Christ, it just became too religious in TWI. It became as rote as "Our Fathers" in Catholicism.
Those of you trying to put off old habits learned in twi, try praying in Jesus' name. You'll find that God still hears you, and He will even answer you. There's nothign wrong with praying in the name of Jesus Christ, it just became too religious in TWI. It became as rote as "Our Fathers" in Catholicism.
I was walking around one day when two ladies just walked up to me and asked if I needed prayer for anything. Yes! I said and told them my issue. So we sat down and they began praying to Jesus. In my mind I said "to God in the name of J.C." but continued to accept their help. Whatever happened there, the prayer was heard.
I was walking around one day when two ladies just walked up to me and asked if I needed prayer for anything. Yes! I said and told them my issue. So we sat down and they began praying to Jesus. In my mind I said "to God in the name of J.C." but continued to accept their help. Whatever happened there, the prayer was heard.
My grandmother always prays to Jesus. Always has, always will. My mom says that on those prayers, Jesus just hands the phone to God and says, it's for you.
Well, isn't Jesus Christ the mediator between God and man? Sounds like the guy to pray to, to me. He has his Father's ear anytime he wants it, doncha know.
Of course, we're now His children, so, actually, we can talk to either one whenever we like...we're a family now.
Well, Listener, that certainly makes perfect sense. BUT TWI didn't agree with that. Praying to Jesus is hard when you are trying to get rid of TWIT brain. Some how people equate praying to Jesus as making him God. As our mediator and the Head of the Church, I am of the opinion that is is ALL GOOD to pray to him. I sure don't want to get to heaven and have him asking me why I didn't talk to him. Not praying to Jesus would equate crossing your path in a hallway and not talking to you. That is just my 2 cents though.;)
Well, Listener, that certainly makes perfect sense. BUT TWI didn't agree with that. Praying to Jesus is hard when you are trying to get rid of TWIT brain. Some how people equate praying to Jesus as making him God. As our mediator and the Head of the Church, I am of the opinion that is is ALL GOOD to pray to him. I sure don't want to get to heaven and have him asking me why I didn't talk to him. Not praying to Jesus would equate crossing your path in a hallway and not talking to you. That is just my 2 cents though.;)
I watched a good movie recently based in China in which a man talked to the dead. (As in he went to their graves and spoke to them) The honesty and deepness in which he spoke to them caught my attention. I don't believe (well, right now I don't now what I believe) we are to pray to the dead, but the way it was portrayed made it look very practical for the living. . .
Very true, Nottawayfer. TWI screwed up so many things when it comes to God's reality. Until recently I didn't see the depth of the deception...I'm just beginning to. It's mind boggling how perverse and deeply ingrained the errors were. vp was a master of delusion who taught others how to be like him....how to delude ones self.
What I saw in prayer in TWI is God became a vending machine - not a loving father. If I had the right change (my believing was there) I could insert 2 quarters and get the candy bar.
God is not our employee, our vending machine, around for the "give-me’s"
He is God. Yes, we can pray in faith and have the rule book (Bible) there and know his will, but it is he who answers our prayers in love -- not because we have the right change.
Then --
Poor Jesus, he became a phrase rather than the son of God. TWI was so worried about worshipping Jesus that they got to the point where they mocked people who said things like "praise Jesus." They did not want to get the Jesus spirit - the deceiving spirit that worshipped Jesus rather than God. So, in their fear, instead Jesus was a phrase "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." No longer a living reality. Just what you say after you go to the vending machine with the correct change.
How awful
It was as if we were the ones running our prayer life and no longer "gave it to God" and if you did not get answer YOU had to work on YOUR believing. This opened the door to witch-hunts.... They must have sin in there life preventing God from answering their prayers ---
The witch-hunt -- you brother has a lisp he must be a homo
Did you give the exact tithe? And the like...
Gosh, we all sin. If sin stopped God's love, protection or helping us out we'd never see him at work. Now, that is not to say go sin -- as the others in TWI thought they could do. I mean, you live life trying your best and you pray and God loves you.
Or if your prayers are not answered -- you do not get the candy -- you may try a different quarter or two dimes and a nickel (trying to change your believeing thoughts, I AM believing -- I am I AM) So, you think you are not putting in the money correctly, or you get mad at the machine for not handing over what you paid for -- THIS IS GOD. Have faith in God.
When my hand was all messed up a few years ago, I did not have the correct change at the vending machine. I was a sinner. Mad at a lot of things. But I did have faith that God would hear me -- a nothing -- and help me. I sang Jesus loves you to my hand and told it that God would have to do a miracle and medicine abandoned us.
I read how this one guy was talking about miracles and I sent an e-mail to please pray for me. This WONDERFUL man then asked for my phone number and called me to pray. He prayed and said it looked like a fish hook in my hand -- no wait a dog hair (I was grooming dogs) and it shot down in my hand and thus the infection. The swelling was the body trying to push it out but the hair was bent and stuck on some tissue. He commanded in the name of Jesus for the hair to break and leave my hand. It did. I was healed.
Not because I did not sin, not because I speak well, not for any other reason then God is good. For him to reach into my dark hole and help me was nothing other than a loving God loving me.
The guy who called was from Thessalonica Greece and I am in Atlanta Georgia. For a wee period he did not pray for others. After he had a jolt. Someone dear he prayed for passed away. It hurt him. He was a tender hearted lover of God, and this really hurt.
Before I contacted him, he had a friend of his in Germany tell him that God was going to move in his life and that someone would ask for prayer and be healed. (I think that was the fear. Fear of being powerless.... All the stuff thrown at us to stop praying)
I was that someone. It was three countries and passing months, but God did something for me that makes me yell "Praise Jesus, Praise his holy name."
So, pray, pray your goofy prayers from the heart, ask God to teach you how to pray, sing prayers, stumble through -- but do not ever stop!
What I saw in prayer in TWI is God became a vending machine - not a loving father. If I had the right change (my believing was there) I could insert 2 quarters and get the candy bar.
I don't even know if there is such a thing. TWI saw so many devil spirits that didn't exist, perfectly decent people hounded over things they didn't do or know about (the homopurge - how many were accused? Probably every one who was kicked out. How many even thought of that stuff? Probably very few).
TWI did not want us to know about or appreciate what JC has done and continues to do for us. TWI wanted the adulation as the intercessors. Right from PFAL where VPW said, "Write to The Teacher..." I saw the ego (didn't stop me jumping in the pond, though).
Matthew 23:1-12
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, 6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, 7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi ("Teacher, Teacher!").
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father upon the earth (especially not "our Father in the Word"): for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted
1 John 2:22-27
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning (NB: not from TWI) shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Jesus spirit? I'd say (if there is one) it infected VPW big-time and made him think that he was JC. And God, too.
Still working on a proper relationship with my Big Brother JC (and with my Dad) but I know they both love me and are helping me see them properly.
So many prayers answered since their tender constant loving care has broken down the shell of hurt and despair.
I remember it being applied to people being slain in the spirit and also to those who prayed to Jesus.... (which is a quantum leap if you think back to the two types of unbelief and don't consider that those who pray to Jesus might not have ever been taught differently....)
Chas, is that what the "Jesus spirit" did? Slayed people in the spirit? (shaking head, eyes wide)
I think I knew "it made people pray to Jesus." Love the letter on GSC that's been posted recently that shows VPW once said that it was okay to pray to Jesus (that would be before VPW himself became Jesus, of course (tongue in cheek)).
It's just words. What matters is the attitude of heart. There are people out there whose hearts are God-ward and who pray to God, pray to Jesus, believe in the trinity, don't believe in the trinity... None of us knows it all. Everyone has some sort of belief or doctrine wrong. But as we focus on His (their) love for us, then we can get answers and rest to the soul.
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Belle
That's my vote and, frankly, I wish she'd just write the "thank you " letter to GSpot for all the ideas we've given her over the years. But, the lawyers probably wouldn't approve of that. :P
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Nottawayfer
It is a hard pill for wayfers to swallow since they only pray for the BEST situations and the BEST household. I got reproved for praying for baby Jessica in twig one year. Baby Jessica had fallen down a well in Midland, Texas, around 1987 or so. She was down in the well for days. I lived in Midland at that time, so the story hit close to my heart. I was told that she didn't have God's protection because her parents were unbelievers.
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Belle
Yep. Shortly before my ex chose TWI over his "unalterable commitment" to me
I prayed out "If it's Your will, God...."
Talk about getting yelled at!
WTF do you think you're doing? "IF" it's God's will? IF? WTF kind of prayer is that? Have you already forgotten everything you've ever learned from TWI? Is the devil taking over that quickly?
Geeze.... how DARE me pray that I'd like to see things work out according to His will. :wacko:
Praying FOR someone outside "THE household" is definitely a foreign concept. I suspect it was like fingernails on the chalkboard to most people. That old crooked handlebar of a bicycle.
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Nottawayfer
Those of you trying to put off old habits learned in twi, try praying in Jesus' name. You'll find that God still hears you, and He will even answer you. There's nothign wrong with praying in the name of Jesus Christ, it just became too religious in TWI. It became as rote as "Our Fathers" in Catholicism.
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Bolshevik
I was walking around one day when two ladies just walked up to me and asked if I needed prayer for anything. Yes! I said and told them my issue. So we sat down and they began praying to Jesus. In my mind I said "to God in the name of J.C." but continued to accept their help. Whatever happened there, the prayer was heard.
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JavaJane
My grandmother always prays to Jesus. Always has, always will. My mom says that on those prayers, Jesus just hands the phone to God and says, it's for you.
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Listener
Well, isn't Jesus Christ the mediator between God and man? Sounds like the guy to pray to, to me. He has his Father's ear anytime he wants it, doncha know.
Of course, we're now His children, so, actually, we can talk to either one whenever we like...we're a family now.
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Nottawayfer
Well, Listener, that certainly makes perfect sense. BUT TWI didn't agree with that. Praying to Jesus is hard when you are trying to get rid of TWIT brain. Some how people equate praying to Jesus as making him God. As our mediator and the Head of the Church, I am of the opinion that is is ALL GOOD to pray to him. I sure don't want to get to heaven and have him asking me why I didn't talk to him. Not praying to Jesus would equate crossing your path in a hallway and not talking to you. That is just my 2 cents though.;)
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Bolshevik
I watched a good movie recently based in China in which a man talked to the dead. (As in he went to their graves and spoke to them) The honesty and deepness in which he spoke to them caught my attention. I don't believe (well, right now I don't now what I believe) we are to pray to the dead, but the way it was portrayed made it look very practical for the living. . .
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Listener
Very true, Nottawayfer. TWI screwed up so many things when it comes to God's reality. Until recently I didn't see the depth of the deception...I'm just beginning to. It's mind boggling how perverse and deeply ingrained the errors were. vp was a master of delusion who taught others how to be like him....how to delude ones self.
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Dot Matrix
I caught up on reading. Nice thread
What I saw in prayer in TWI is God became a vending machine - not a loving father. If I had the right change (my believing was there) I could insert 2 quarters and get the candy bar.
God is not our employee, our vending machine, around for the "give-me’s"
He is God. Yes, we can pray in faith and have the rule book (Bible) there and know his will, but it is he who answers our prayers in love -- not because we have the right change.
Then --
Poor Jesus, he became a phrase rather than the son of God. TWI was so worried about worshipping Jesus that they got to the point where they mocked people who said things like "praise Jesus." They did not want to get the Jesus spirit - the deceiving spirit that worshipped Jesus rather than God. So, in their fear, instead Jesus was a phrase "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen." No longer a living reality. Just what you say after you go to the vending machine with the correct change.
How awful
It was as if we were the ones running our prayer life and no longer "gave it to God" and if you did not get answer YOU had to work on YOUR believing. This opened the door to witch-hunts.... They must have sin in there life preventing God from answering their prayers ---
The witch-hunt -- you brother has a lisp he must be a homo
Did you give the exact tithe? And the like...
Gosh, we all sin. If sin stopped God's love, protection or helping us out we'd never see him at work. Now, that is not to say go sin -- as the others in TWI thought they could do. I mean, you live life trying your best and you pray and God loves you.
Or if your prayers are not answered -- you do not get the candy -- you may try a different quarter or two dimes and a nickel (trying to change your believeing thoughts, I AM believing -- I am I AM) So, you think you are not putting in the money correctly, or you get mad at the machine for not handing over what you paid for -- THIS IS GOD. Have faith in God.
When my hand was all messed up a few years ago, I did not have the correct change at the vending machine. I was a sinner. Mad at a lot of things. But I did have faith that God would hear me -- a nothing -- and help me. I sang Jesus loves you to my hand and told it that God would have to do a miracle and medicine abandoned us.
I read how this one guy was talking about miracles and I sent an e-mail to please pray for me. This WONDERFUL man then asked for my phone number and called me to pray. He prayed and said it looked like a fish hook in my hand -- no wait a dog hair (I was grooming dogs) and it shot down in my hand and thus the infection. The swelling was the body trying to push it out but the hair was bent and stuck on some tissue. He commanded in the name of Jesus for the hair to break and leave my hand. It did. I was healed.
Not because I did not sin, not because I speak well, not for any other reason then God is good. For him to reach into my dark hole and help me was nothing other than a loving God loving me.
The guy who called was from Thessalonica Greece and I am in Atlanta Georgia. For a wee period he did not pray for others. After he had a jolt. Someone dear he prayed for passed away. It hurt him. He was a tender hearted lover of God, and this really hurt.
Before I contacted him, he had a friend of his in Germany tell him that God was going to move in his life and that someone would ask for prayer and be healed. (I think that was the fear. Fear of being powerless.... All the stuff thrown at us to stop praying)
I was that someone. It was three countries and passing months, but God did something for me that makes me yell "Praise Jesus, Praise his holy name."
So, pray, pray your goofy prayers from the heart, ask God to teach you how to pray, sing prayers, stumble through -- but do not ever stop!
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Nottawayfer
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Twinky
The Jesus devil spirit...
I don't even know if there is such a thing. TWI saw so many devil spirits that didn't exist, perfectly decent people hounded over things they didn't do or know about (the homopurge - how many were accused? Probably every one who was kicked out. How many even thought of that stuff? Probably very few).
TWI did not want us to know about or appreciate what JC has done and continues to do for us. TWI wanted the adulation as the intercessors. Right from PFAL where VPW said, "Write to The Teacher..." I saw the ego (didn't stop me jumping in the pond, though).
Jesus spirit? I'd say (if there is one) it infected VPW big-time and made him think that he was JC. And God, too.
Still working on a proper relationship with my Big Brother JC (and with my Dad) but I know they both love me and are helping me see them properly.
So many prayers answered since their tender constant loving care has broken down the shell of hurt and despair.
(edited for emphasis)
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ChasUFarley
Oh,Twinky... I'd forgotten about that stuff...
I remember it being applied to people being slain in the spirit and also to those who prayed to Jesus.... (which is a quantum leap if you think back to the two types of unbelief and don't consider that those who pray to Jesus might not have ever been taught differently....)
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Twinky
Chas, is that what the "Jesus spirit" did? Slayed people in the spirit? (shaking head, eyes wide)
I think I knew "it made people pray to Jesus." Love the letter on GSC that's been posted recently that shows VPW once said that it was okay to pray to Jesus (that would be before VPW himself became Jesus, of course (tongue in cheek)).
It's just words. What matters is the attitude of heart. There are people out there whose hearts are God-ward and who pray to God, pray to Jesus, believe in the trinity, don't believe in the trinity... None of us knows it all. Everyone has some sort of belief or doctrine wrong. But as we focus on His (their) love for us, then we can get answers and rest to the soul.
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Dot Matrix
They taught it as a counterfiet Jesus....
I think they applied that to the actual Jesus Christ -- if we talked about him too much.
I was Pentecostal and was always talking about Jeus. I was a baaaad girl
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waysider
Yep, I remember the teaching about a devil spirit named "Jesus" in the Advanced Class.(Early '70s)
The way it was explained was that if we tried to talk to Jesus we could be inviting in a devil spirit by the same name.
Pretty creepy stuff if you think about it. "Don't talk to your brother, you could get posessed if you do."( My paraphrasing.)
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excathedra
dear bolshevik
my prayers have turned to talking
love,ex
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JavaJane
I'm getting there, too! Thanks for the thread!
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