You will find many no longer feel VPW as a "father-in-the-word" figure and have moved in many directions none of which are collective.
I will suggest you take a good look at the main web page and it will fill you in on the law suits and other craziness that was and is the way.
I was being released as a WC grad in 1984 - maybe I ran into you at one time or another....but be aware...many here now choose to denounce much of way teachings. Many still believe a lot of the original class...you see who as you read and post.
So you took the new class? So what kind of stuff were they teaching? What was all this "new" research?
You said...
My fellowship coordinator has definite spiritual problems and wants to control my life free time and try to distract me with service to the ministry instead of the full sharing mentioned in acts and Ephesians, and I don’t want to continue with these spiritual whores.
Yes, most of the coordinators had spiritual problems. The Way is a pile of spiritual dung and serves no benefit to humanity, save the rare instance someone in the Way witnesses to someone and saves them. Which can't happen that often. Why would you want to witness to anybody knowing you would have to bring them around?
Way fellowships are like dark little caves with no light.
Spritual Whores abound in Way fellowships. It's one big spiritual S&M session with dominators and submissives.
During the class which I graduated I almost got up and walked out when David Chavisty began to teach at the 8th session, but I decided to give the people there the benefit of the doubt and sit through the 8th-12th sessions by basically ignoring the teaching and reading my Bible.
What was it that got you so wrild up?
"POWER FOR ABUNDANT LIVING" IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THE WAY!!!!! WHY?????
This may actually be the best thing TWI has done in decades.
We have been given this awesome time of the ages to live in, the age of grace, but the New Testament in printed form before us, and because of Dr. wierwille, the understanding of the powerful word of God.
I was with you all the way until you said, "because of Dr. Wierwille". as you'll soon find out as you browse the cafe, VPW didn't really come up with anything that wasn't taught by many teachers in many Christian circles. I respect the fact that VPW's ministry won people to Christ, no doubt about it. But stick around Preacher, you're about to find out that VPW wasn't the Apostle Paul of our generation, not by a longshot.
So you took the new class? So what kind of stuff were they teaching? What was all this "new" research?
Ok, now i gotta look it up, here ya go wolfy......
not happenin, i dont want to retain error by working it, sorry, what I can say is that they left alot of good stuff that made sense from pfal, a prime example is 4 crucified, do you remember 4 crucified? that electrified me when i learned it, regardless if Dr learned it from someone else, they didnt tell me . HE DID.
You said...
Yes, most of the coordinators had spiritual problems. The Way is a pile of spiritual dung and serves no benefit to humanity, save the rare instance someone in the Way witnesses to someone and saves them. Which can't happen that often. Why would you want to witness to anybody knowing you would have to bring them around?
Right, witnessing is really really hard to do, how can I bring em to a class that promote ego and direction away from god? I simple cant, I need help. I told my coordinater that I cant take the intermediate class, (even though I can interpret and prophecy just fine) he hemmed and hawed 5 or 6 times, lol, didnt know what to say, lmao, what a moron, brain has turned to mush, which aint mush worse that brain turning to bitter.
Way fellowships are like dark little caves with no light.
Spritual Whores abound in Way fellowships. It's one big spiritual S&M session with dominators and submissives.
What was it that got you so wrild up?
The promotion of devil spirit possesion!
This may actually be the best thing TWI has done in decades.
I was with you all the way until you said, "because of Dr. Wierwille". as you'll soon find out as you browse the cafe, VPW didn't really come up with anything that wasn't taught by many teachers in many Christian circles. I respect the fact that VPW's ministry won people to Christ, no doubt about it. But stick around Preacher, you're about to find out that VPW wasn't the Apostle Paul of our generation, not by a longshot.
Yadda Yadda yadda on the dr wierwille thing people, get off your high horses and get a grip on reality, he taught my how to believe god easier and how to under stand the Bible, you should read the book more and forget your opinion and desire to be right all the time, nobodys right all the time, and just because somebody says something that agrees with your already predjiduce attitude against Dr, you jump right on the band wagon forgeting where you were before God saved you!
Reality is not this websight slamming Gods screwed up leaders, life is reality,and God himself gave us life, are you gonna slam him too???? well are you?
better not, he's my Father and I love him and speak and act in His behalf, so there!, lol
the 5 invigorating realxing and healing activties for healing still hold true, try to do some of them once in a while.
They are: Sleep, laughter, nature, human touch, and music,,,,, all very good activities even if( I'm sure you will) find that there are more, and even better ones.
Just because someone says something in the cafe am I sposed to believe it?
Do you believe me?
I might be full of crap for all you know, think about it!!!
Dont be so gullible, I thought leaving twi was sposed to cure that problem not enhance it!
Yeah, I don't think PFAL is available anymore. I remember awhile back (around year 2000) my LC was giving away PFAL books for free. HQ had sent boxes of them to give away to anyone who wanted. Why else would the Way give away something for free?
My hubby worked bookstore just a few years back so I'll try to confirm.
Yes, it is true they no longer make that book available. The Way gave them all away free back in the late 90's and possibly still 2000.. The had them available at the Limbs, at HQ, at every meeting till they were all taken.. I think I have 2 extras in case some one wants that I picked up just cause WOW something ftheir were giving for free?! lol..
Yes, it is true they no longer make that book available. The Way gave them all away free back in the late 90's and possibly still 2000.. The had them available at the Limbs, at HQ, at every meeting till they were all taken.. I think I have 2 extras in case some one wants that I picked up just cause WOW something ftheir were giving for free?! lol..
If I were you, I'd change my name to TrustAndEBay...and sell those books ASAP! Seriously, they go for decent money. I made a significant amount of money selling my stuff on eBay. I found some more that I need to get ready to sell soon too, including a bunch of SNS tapes.
can anyone else confirm that the PFAL book is no longer available at der Vey?
Welcome Preacher man.
I called the bookstore about a year ago, I asked for a current list of what's available from them. She told me that she would send me a copy of all the books presently available and all of the tapes/cd's/videos available. But then she added "If you're looking for something by Dr. don't bother. We no longer carry anything of his."
I was surprised that after looking me up in their database that she spoke to me. But she was very cordial and polite. She called me one of the "old timers". Don't know if I like that term. ^_^
...For those of us operating the 9 manifestations of the spirit it is clear as a bell how headquarters has turned from the living God to idols and opened the door for devil spirits to enter in and take control.
...
I prayed to God to continue to protect me from the doctrines of devils and open my eyes to see the picture being presented, and He did.
...
Welcome Preacher
Please explain what idols they worship, how they opened the door to devil spirits and what specific devil spirits you believe are controlling them, and
Please explain which specific teachings you believe are doctrines of devils.
I called the bookstore about a year ago, I asked for a current list of what's available from them. She told me that she would send me a copy of all the books presently available and all of the tapes/cd's/videos available. But then she added "If you're looking for something by Dr. don't bother. We no longer carry anything of his."
To me, that's amazing and stupefying - that they would no longer carry the writings of the founder and first president of the only organization that is able to rightly divide the Word *tongue in cheek*. You know, the guy without whom TWI would not have been necessary.
Or maybe they're just not making it available to us "cop-outs"?
I guess that means someday, when I get ready to sell my assorted Way books and memorabilia, I'll be able to retire off of the proceeds.
Naw....actually they were afraid some young upstart preacher would steal vp's work and call it his own. So, with their massive storehouse of accumulated spiritual wisdom, they decided the most effective way to protect it would be to eliminate it altogether. <_< let's see...hmmmm....what was that about "honor among thieves"?
Yadda Yadda yadda on the dr wierwille thing people, get off your high horses and get a grip on reality, he taught my how to believe god easier and how to under stand the Bible
Preacher, I can appreciate your enthusiasm for your "father in the Word" who unlocked the keys to understanding the bible for you. I was the same way until I took an honest look at all the documents and testimonials here at the cafe.
I have always believed that VPW had heart at one point in his ministry. But he went down the tubes and hurt a lot of people's lives in the process. The man definitely was a plagiarist and his sexual conquests are undisputed.
you should read the book more and forget your opinion and desire to be right all the time
Uhh, you have no idea who I am or how much I read the book. You're making an aweful lot of assumptions about me and there's a lot of arrogance in your tone sir.
nobodys right all the time, and just because somebody says something that agrees with your already predjiduce attitude against Dr, you jump right on the band wagon forgeting where you were before God saved you!
I don't need to praise TWI to remember where I was before God saved me. I sense a bit of Craig's bitterness in your voice.
Furthermore, you'll find that quite a few of us posters here at the cafe go "way" back to the good old days. A lot of us gave decades to the ministry and hung around VPW and LCM for years, so our opinion is relevant whether or not it agrees with your "already prejudiced attitude" against those who have little or no praise for VPW.
can anyone else confirm that the PFAL book is no longer available at der Vey?
Welcome Preacher man.
to the best of my knowledge,
The PFAL book is not sold by twi. A while back they were giving them away to get rid of them. No explanation why.
It is also my understanding that twi is taking a different stance on fear and the Law of Believing. Did the original poster of this thread see any of this evident in the class?
I have recently taken the Way International's new foundational class entitled, "The way of abundance and power". If it were available our father in the word, Dr Victor Paul Wierwille would have turned over in his grave.
Don't speak for me...he may be YOUR "father in the word"...but to me, he was a lying, plaguriazing, woman abusing, drunk.
...and his class on power for abundant living was probably 75% wrong (at least)...ESPECIALLY his crap about the 4 crucified...The 9 manifestations?...they should have been called the 9 infestations
The Way has added another relaxing activity to that list - it's after "music", and it's called This Stuff.
If you are exposed for even short periods of time to "TThis Stuff. ", you'll find yourself very relaxed, to the point of actually drifting off into thinking about other invigorating topics, like why computer screens are square, or rectangluar in shape. Soon, "This Stuff. " will be over and you'll have forgotten what you were watching, select another interesting activity like Googling for "past uses of the word fly, all languages", and that'll be that and you'll continue on, refreshed, but not sure why.
Simply put, the mere fact that "This Stuff. " is no longer playing will, in subliminal but signifant ways, make you more active and, in further fact, smarter -as your brain will perk up and realize what it COULD be doing and get busy on Other Stuff, thus proving a very old but true proverb: "a busy brain is a good brain".
I wanted to add to the "welcomes" Preacher, and say that I'm sure your contributions will add plenty of vim and vigor to the spot. Vim is always appreciated, more so than vigor at times, but not to the point that vigor gets short shrift, as they used to say. Both are much appreciated.
So I got some questions, too. If you get a sec, and this doesn't have to be high on your list, but if you can - I don't understand the significance of the use of the word "tremendous", comparatively between 1936 and now, and as it's used in the newest class of the Way's. I'll take your word on the definition changing over the years, but I don't think any hearer of the word tremendous, in or out of that class, is going to be harmed in a tangible way by it being used. Course I don't know how they used it, so I'm asking the question. By your examples I'd say - sure, the things the bible says are "tremendous", as I understand the word. Certainly unexpected when they came within my field of vision and I first read and heard them.
If that word changed meaning, what's it matter to me? Now - I know words and they're meaning are important, but aren't they important by current definition? It seems like a long way to go to argue the usage of a word if no one's familiar with any other usages.
I ask about this because one of the things that the Way does is absolutely torture individual words, making them take on huge importance and significance by themselves.
In fact a word can only be understood by it's context and usage, "right where it's written", as they say or used to say - and everywhere else, as they sort of used to say. Think it was extended something or other. But all the other stuff where a word gets used in the bible.
Words in the bible like agape have a bibilcal meaning, and an external meaning, both based on usage. How a word is used completely defines it by shaping it in "real life". So we know that Moses never said "agape", but he might have said "love", (but we know didn't say either one, in Hebrew) and Paul might have said "Love", but really didn't say that word at all. And there might be a consistent relationship in the bible between the words we do have to look at, and that we can only know by reading it and jostling the usages around with the external understanding of what those words meant outside of the writers. Figure - if God was the inspirer, and translators worked with some degree of that inspiration, there's a lot to work with there.
But if someone at some time said "agape" and meant "love as manifested by squirrels, and specifically in the spring months", that doesn't mean that's what Paul drew on, or whoever may have translated Paul's writings later.
I'm kidding - sort of. I guess I'm really just curious as to what grabbed your attention about the way the presenters spoke in this newest class and what was clearly so deceptive and wrong in what and how they did speak.
Just because someone says something in the cafe am I sposed to believe it?
Yes
But seriously folks...I know you don't want to "retain error", but it would be interesting to some of us who were kicked out for questioning parts of The Way of Abundance and Power to find out if some of the questioned parts were excised.
For example, do they still teach that the "original sin of mankind" was Eve having lesbian sex with the devil, who had come into concretion as a woman?
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washingtonweather
Preacher - May I welcome you here!
You will find many no longer feel VPW as a "father-in-the-word" figure and have moved in many directions none of which are collective.
I will suggest you take a good look at the main web page and it will fill you in on the law suits and other craziness that was and is the way.
I was being released as a WC grad in 1984 - maybe I ran into you at one time or another....but be aware...many here now choose to denounce much of way teachings. Many still believe a lot of the original class...you see who as you read and post.
In the meantime -- Welcome !!
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Lone Wolf McQuade
Welcome Preacher.
So you took the new class? So what kind of stuff were they teaching? What was all this "new" research?
You said...
Yes, most of the coordinators had spiritual problems. The Way is a pile of spiritual dung and serves no benefit to humanity, save the rare instance someone in the Way witnesses to someone and saves them. Which can't happen that often. Why would you want to witness to anybody knowing you would have to bring them around?Way fellowships are like dark little caves with no light.
Spritual Whores abound in Way fellowships. It's one big spiritual S&M session with dominators and submissives.
What was it that got you so wrild up?
This may actually be the best thing TWI has done in decades.I was with you all the way until you said, "because of Dr. Wierwille". as you'll soon find out as you browse the cafe, VPW didn't really come up with anything that wasn't taught by many teachers in many Christian circles. I respect the fact that VPW's ministry won people to Christ, no doubt about it. But stick around Preacher, you're about to find out that VPW wasn't the Apostle Paul of our generation, not by a longshot.
Welcome one, welcome all.....PREACHER!!!!!
Lone Wolf McQuade
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Preacher
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WordWolf
Preacher,
are you part of some religious order or something that requires you to cut-and-paste the
EXACT SAME WORDS FOR SEVERAL PARAGRAPHS for the first 1/2 of
EVERY SINGLE POST you make here?
You can shove all that into your profile, or in a "my story" thread,
and post a link to it for the curious.
Otherwise, you're discouraging people from reading the whole post,
especially since they've read it before.
Since you thought it was important enough to post, I expect you'd consider it important
enough to read. Posting it the way you're doing now is interfering with that.
And whether or not I agree with you on anything, I don't want anything interfering
with whether or not I can read your posts properly.
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lindyhopper
speaking of gullible....
can anyone else confirm that the PFAL book is no longer available at der Vey?
Welcome Preacher man.
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Through the Looking Glass
Yeah, I don't think PFAL is available anymore. I remember awhile back (around year 2000) my LC was giving away PFAL books for free. HQ had sent boxes of them to give away to anyone who wanted. Why else would the Way give away something for free?
My hubby worked bookstore just a few years back so I'll try to confirm.
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TrustAndObey
Yes, it is true they no longer make that book available. The Way gave them all away free back in the late 90's and possibly still 2000.. The had them available at the Limbs, at HQ, at every meeting till they were all taken.. I think I have 2 extras in case some one wants that I picked up just cause WOW something ftheir were giving for free?! lol..
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Through the Looking Glass
Late 90's does sound about right. I think I remember getting some before the Y2K fiasco.
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Mister P-Mosh
If I were you, I'd change my name to TrustAndEBay...and sell those books ASAP! Seriously, they go for decent money. I made a significant amount of money selling my stuff on eBay. I found some more that I need to get ready to sell soon too, including a bunch of SNS tapes.
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Preacher
Nope wolfy, I dont really know how to use this site too well, I am learning though, sorry about the moves I made, my bad.
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Eyesopen
I called the bookstore about a year ago, I asked for a current list of what's available from them. She told me that she would send me a copy of all the books presently available and all of the tapes/cd's/videos available. But then she added "If you're looking for something by Dr. don't bother. We no longer carry anything of his."
I was surprised that after looking me up in their database that she spoke to me. But she was very cordial and polite. She called me one of the "old timers". Don't know if I like that term. ^_^
Hehehehehe...wolfy...hehehehe
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Listener
Hah! Old timers, indeed! Why, I remember walking 3 miles to twig barefoot in 2 feet of.....oh, sorry....I digress. (already!) :huh:
Very interesting.....no materials by vp, eh? So, now it's all lcm's crap? What DO they sell now???
Anything related to the bible?? <_<
wolfy....kinda cute, wouldn't you say?....kinda cudly, but with teeth.
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oldiesman
Welcome Preacher
Please explain what idols they worship, how they opened the door to devil spirits and what specific devil spirits you believe are controlling them, and
Please explain which specific teachings you believe are doctrines of devils.
Thank you
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Kevlar2000
To me, that's amazing and stupefying - that they would no longer carry the writings of the founder and first president of the only organization that is able to rightly divide the Word *tongue in cheek*. You know, the guy without whom TWI would not have been necessary.
Or maybe they're just not making it available to us "cop-outs"?
I guess that means someday, when I get ready to sell my assorted Way books and memorabilia, I'll be able to retire off of the proceeds.
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Listener
Naw....actually they were afraid some young upstart preacher would steal vp's work and call it his own. So, with their massive storehouse of accumulated spiritual wisdom, they decided the most effective way to protect it would be to eliminate it altogether. <_< let's see...hmmmm....what was that about "honor among thieves"?
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Lone Wolf McQuade
Preacher, you said...
Preacher, I can appreciate your enthusiasm for your "father in the Word" who unlocked the keys to understanding the bible for you. I was the same way until I took an honest look at all the documents and testimonials here at the cafe.I have always believed that VPW had heart at one point in his ministry. But he went down the tubes and hurt a lot of people's lives in the process. The man definitely was a plagiarist and his sexual conquests are undisputed.
Uhh, you have no idea who I am or how much I read the book. You're making an aweful lot of assumptions about me and there's a lot of arrogance in your tone sir.
I don't need to praise TWI to remember where I was before God saved me. I sense a bit of Craig's bitterness in your voice.
Furthermore, you'll find that quite a few of us posters here at the cafe go "way" back to the good old days. A lot of us gave decades to the ministry and hung around VPW and LCM for years, so our opinion is relevant whether or not it agrees with your "already prejudiced attitude" against those who have little or no praise for VPW.
Lone Wolf McQuade
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Bolshevik
to the best of my knowledge,
The PFAL book is not sold by twi. A while back they were giving them away to get rid of them. No explanation why.
It is also my understanding that twi is taking a different stance on fear and the Law of Believing. Did the original poster of this thread see any of this evident in the class?
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Lone Wolf McQuade
You think they would have at least changed the name from Craig's class. See, without Craig there, they can't come up with anything on their own.
Lone Wolf
He'll be back, guaranteed. He'll be on that stage again one day, "a changed man". Oh, how they will applaud him.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Don't speak for me...he may be YOUR "father in the word"...but to me, he was a lying, plaguriazing, woman abusing, drunk.
...and his class on power for abundant living was probably 75% wrong (at least)...ESPECIALLY his crap about the 4 crucified...The 9 manifestations?...they should have been called the 9 infestations
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socks
The Way has added another relaxing activity to that list - it's after "music", and it's called This Stuff.
If you are exposed for even short periods of time to "TThis Stuff. ", you'll find yourself very relaxed, to the point of actually drifting off into thinking about other invigorating topics, like why computer screens are square, or rectangluar in shape. Soon, "This Stuff. " will be over and you'll have forgotten what you were watching, select another interesting activity like Googling for "past uses of the word fly, all languages", and that'll be that and you'll continue on, refreshed, but not sure why.
Simply put, the mere fact that "This Stuff. " is no longer playing will, in subliminal but signifant ways, make you more active and, in further fact, smarter -as your brain will perk up and realize what it COULD be doing and get busy on Other Stuff, thus proving a very old but true proverb: "a busy brain is a good brain".
Seriously. Try it.
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socks
I wanted to add to the "welcomes" Preacher, and say that I'm sure your contributions will add plenty of vim and vigor to the spot. Vim is always appreciated, more so than vigor at times, but not to the point that vigor gets short shrift, as they used to say. Both are much appreciated.
So I got some questions, too. If you get a sec, and this doesn't have to be high on your list, but if you can - I don't understand the significance of the use of the word "tremendous", comparatively between 1936 and now, and as it's used in the newest class of the Way's. I'll take your word on the definition changing over the years, but I don't think any hearer of the word tremendous, in or out of that class, is going to be harmed in a tangible way by it being used. Course I don't know how they used it, so I'm asking the question. By your examples I'd say - sure, the things the bible says are "tremendous", as I understand the word. Certainly unexpected when they came within my field of vision and I first read and heard them.
If that word changed meaning, what's it matter to me? Now - I know words and they're meaning are important, but aren't they important by current definition? It seems like a long way to go to argue the usage of a word if no one's familiar with any other usages.
I ask about this because one of the things that the Way does is absolutely torture individual words, making them take on huge importance and significance by themselves.
In fact a word can only be understood by it's context and usage, "right where it's written", as they say or used to say - and everywhere else, as they sort of used to say. Think it was extended something or other. But all the other stuff where a word gets used in the bible.
Words in the bible like agape have a bibilcal meaning, and an external meaning, both based on usage. How a word is used completely defines it by shaping it in "real life". So we know that Moses never said "agape", but he might have said "love", (but we know didn't say either one, in Hebrew) and Paul might have said "Love", but really didn't say that word at all. And there might be a consistent relationship in the bible between the words we do have to look at, and that we can only know by reading it and jostling the usages around with the external understanding of what those words meant outside of the writers. Figure - if God was the inspirer, and translators worked with some degree of that inspiration, there's a lot to work with there.
But if someone at some time said "agape" and meant "love as manifested by squirrels, and specifically in the spring months", that doesn't mean that's what Paul drew on, or whoever may have translated Paul's writings later.
I'm kidding - sort of. I guess I'm really just curious as to what grabbed your attention about the way the presenters spoke in this newest class and what was clearly so deceptive and wrong in what and how they did speak.
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Bolshevik
Socks,
first you force me to watch that video then the word usage then squirrels.
:biglaugh:
:confused: 
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waysider
I tried watching This Stuff but I think I may have broken something in my face.
Ouch!
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Oakspear
But seriously folks...I know you don't want to "retain error", but it would be interesting to some of us who were kicked out for questioning parts of The Way of Abundance and Power to find out if some of the questioned parts were excised.
For example, do they still teach that the "original sin of mankind" was Eve having lesbian sex with the devil, who had come into concretion as a woman?
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