John 8 Jesus is teaching in the temple and the Scribes and Pharisees bring in a woman caught in adultery and "set her in the midst".
Verse 5 says, Now Moses in the law commanded us, that she should be stoned: but what do you say?
Verse 6 This they said, tempting Him, that they might accuse Him.
BUT JESUS STOOPED DOWN, AND WITH HIS FINGER WROTE ON THE GROUND, AS THOUGH HE HEARD THEM NOT
(He was not going back to the "files of his mind" or contemplating eating kippersnacks with Dave B@dard)
In other words, He didn't go "mental". Jesus was shifting gears and getting His mind out of the way so He could access the spirit realm. A person has to be at peace to enter in. Remember, it is the "still small voice".
Verse 7...He who is without sin among you....
How can that answer come from his mind? Jesus reached out and took the revelation. Revelation is spiritual information you cannot know by your senses or mind. It is spiritual.
Jesus fulfilled the Law and introduced love.
Love came from heaven and not His mind. Jesus didnt work the Word beforeehand and wait for the opportune moment to teach this new material.
This is one of my favorite records.
He showed mercy instead of judgement. Jesus commuted her death sentence and gave her a new life.
Scribes and Pharisees were hung up on the knowledge of the Law (in their minds) and carrying out the law in the physical.
Jesus waxed spiritual and received the revelation of Love.
Verse 6 This they said, tempting Him, that they might accuse Him.
BUT JESUS STOOPED DOWN, AND WITH HIS FINGER WROTE ON THE GROUND, AS THOUGH HE HEARD THEM NOT
(He was not going back to the "files of his mind" or contemplating eating kippersnacks with Dave B@dard)
In other words, He didn't go "mental". Jesus was shifting gears and getting His mind out of the way so He could access the spirit realm. A person has to be at peace to enter in. Remember, it is the "still small voice".
Sounds a lot like what TWI taught to me.. Not saying that your comments separating spirit of man with spriit of God is, but this statement just sounds so TWITish.
John 8 Jesus is teaching in the temple and the Scribes and Pharisees bring in a woman caught in adultery and "set her in the midst".
Verse 5 says, Now Moses in the law commanded us, that she should be stoned: but what do you say?
Verse 6 This they said, tempting Him, that they might accuse Him.
BUT JESUS STOOPED DOWN, AND WITH HIS FINGER WROTE ON THE GROUND, AS THOUGH HE HEARD THEM NOT
(He was not going back to the "files of his mind" or contemplating eating kippersnacks with Dave B@dard)
In other words, He didn't go "mental". Jesus was shifting gears and getting His mind out of the way so He could access the spirit realm. A person has to be at peace to enter in. Remember, it is the "still small voice".
Verse 7...He who is without sin among you....
How can that answer come from his mind? Jesus reached out and took the revelation. Revelation is spiritual information you cannot know by your senses or mind. It is spiritual.
Jesus fulfilled the Law and introduced love.
Love came from heaven and not His mind. Jesus didnt work the Word beforeehand and wait for the opportune moment to teach this new material.
This is one of my favorite records.
He showed mercy instead of judgement. Jesus commuted her death sentence and gave her a new life.
Scribes and Pharisees were hung up on the knowledge of the Law (in their minds) and carrying out the law in the physical.
Jesus waxed spiritual and received the revelation of Love.
It is important to study the Word.
It is important to carry out the Word with Love.
Sounds a lot like what TWI taught to me.. Not saying that your comments separating spirit of man with spriit of God is, but this statement just sounds so TWITish.
ok, how do I share that record without sounding TWItish. I thought I got rid of all my TWIthood. Seriously.
Yes, I'd have to agree with Trust and Obey - it reminds me of TWI's way of interpreting the Bible too. Which was usually a trip into parts unknown through the art of speculation and a flair for ignoring context and re-defining words to suit a particular doctrine [as I mentioned in post # 48].
I am amazed that you can draw all that information about what Jesus was thinking…and NOT thinking since He had to get His mind out of the way…What data in the passage suggests any of that to you? For that matter, I can come up with a different reason if I were to force my belief in the divinity of Jesus onto the passage – it would go something like this: Jesus being divine – and knowing what was in the hearts of the accusers – stooped down and wrote in the ground the very commandment that He once penned in stone for Moses. The words written in stone had come alive by the Word made flesh. For centuries, religious leaders enjoyed the power and privilege of twisting the law around to suit their own agenda – as if taming a wild beast. But this day the Lion of Judah turned on them. His stooping and writing merely a ploy to lure them in closer, as if cowering to their tactical advantage. When all at once His words leaped forth – pouncing on their overconfident hearts…All this amounts to is speculations and assumptions – not worth a darn - just like your version.
How do you share the record without sounding like TWI? Break the habit of processing Scripture the way TWI does. A book that I recommend for developing not only Bible study skills but also learning to abstract principles as well is What to Do on Thursday: A Layman's Guide to the Practical Use of the Scriptures by Jay Adams. Besides going over the basics of interpretation [like attention to details of grammar, consulting context: textual, historical, cultural, geographical] it also keeps you on point to discover the author's purpose of a particular passage. And in my opinion, Adams does all that without pushing an agenda and remains consistent in the use of interpretive tools.
That was lovely! I woulda bought it! See how we get sucked into all that? You could be the next Max Lucado with that writing.
But, sadly, that is what many people in Christian circles do. The writing is so pretty and poetic. Makes us feel good, and caters to our egos. Without realizing it, they read and then talk about these authors books as if they were doing true research of the scriptures.
I think Son of the Master means well. Just like us, he believed a system of thinking/not thinking....................and then took it and left TWI, but, ran right into the arms of the Word/Faith movement! (it was comfortable).
Changing your "believe" to "faith" is hard to swallow...................That "I" am not the center of the universe, but God is, this is a bigger challenge.
If I am wrong Son, tell me. But from your posts I can gather this, but I will not judge your intentions.
In my opinion, Hinn, Hagin, White, Shambam, even Kenyon.........
John 8 Jesus is teaching in the temple and the Scribes and Pharisees bring in a woman caught in adultery and "set her in the midst".
Verse 5 says, Now Moses in the law commanded us, that she should be stoned: but what do you say?
Verse 6 This they said, tempting Him, that they might accuse Him.
BUT JESUS STOOPED DOWN, AND WITH HIS FINGER WROTE ON THE GROUND, AS THOUGH HE HEARD THEM NOT
(He was not going back to the "files of his mind" or contemplating eating kippersnacks with Dave B@dard)
In other words, He didn't go "mental". Jesus was shifting gears and getting His mind out of the way so He could access the spirit realm. A person has to be at peace to enter in. Remember, it is the "still small voice".
Verse 7...He who is without sin among you....
How can that answer come from his mind? Jesus reached out and took the revelation. Revelation is spiritual information you cannot know by your senses or mind. It is spiritual.
Jesus fulfilled the Law and introduced love.
Love came from heaven and not His mind. Jesus didnt work the Word beforeehand and wait for the opportune moment to teach this new material.
This is one of my favorite records.
He showed mercy instead of judgement. Jesus commuted her death sentence and gave her a new life.
Scribes and Pharisees were hung up on the knowledge of the Law (in their minds) and carrying out the law in the physical.
Jesus waxed spiritual and received the revelation of Love.
It is important to study the Word.
It is important to carry out the Word with Love.
What happened to the spirit teaching the Mind?
How is it that Jesus' Mind was bypassed when he explained how it works here-
Matthew 14:25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
How is the mind 'bypassed'? Seems to state that the mind is certainly involved.
Thanks, Bliss!...Maybe I do need to set my sights a little higher. I've sorta been envisioning myself as the next Max Headroom …I always like the kind and considerate tone your posts bring to a thread - and wish you'd post in Doctrinal more – someone's got to keep me in line .
Son of the Master – I do apologize for being so combative. It is not my intention to prove you're position on this thread is wrong and mine is right. It is more of a challenge to your thinking process – my being curious on how you've arrived at your conclusions. And again – not that you're thinking process is wrong and mine is right – not a duel to the death – but a duel to the crux of the matter - an invitation to each to prove they're engaging their best thinking. As Bliss pointed out – another issue has surfaced on this thread – TWI's odd mixture of thought processes…sometimes being very detailed and logical interspersed with speculations, assumptions and lapses of reason.
I am not saying God cannot communicate with people, that there's no such thing as revelation or any of the manifestations you talked about. What I'm saying is that so far you have failed to document from Scripture that it all works the way you've described it. That is the crux of the matter on this "spirit bypasses the mind" stuff.
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject at hand. This teaching on the born again spirit, I believe, begins to unravel the lack of power and spiritual frustration experienced by many, at least it did for me. How so? One of the most insidious doctrinal teachings, I believe is that “the renewed mind is the KEY to POWER.” There is no power in the mind.
II Kings 6:14-17
…and they came by night and surrounded the city.
And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with houses, and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”
So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”
And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
There is an invisible realm all around us. The spiritual realm is more real than the physical because it is eternal. All the real things in life are in the Spirit. And I cannot think my way there! I can’t believe real hard with my mind and see it. So how do I get there? My mind is powerless. (And which of you, by taking thought, can add one cubit to his stature? Luke 12:25)
The real me is the spirit. (For what man knows the things of a man, if not the spirit of man in him? )
I am not my body or my mind or my emotions. The real me, the me that hungers to know God and to be intimate (spirit to spirit, I Corinthians 6:17- “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.”) with Him is my inward man, the hidden man of the heart.
My mind is like a computer that I use to process thoughts and to store memories, my emotions are to serve the real me. My body is the house I live in, not the real me (Contrary to the constant message we receive from the entertainment industry). When I forget this and focus on my body as the master, or my intellect, or let my emotions rule, then I get in trouble and am powerless. But when my body and soul are subject to the spirit man in me, under the Lordship of the Holy Spirit, then I have life, peace and power.
Don’t know all there is to know about it. Can’t say exactly what happened when I was born-again. But I know that God graciously sent His Spirit and regenerated my spirit and filled it full of the Holy Spirit. And my spirit man came alive, dead to sin but alive unto God, quickened by the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
When I go to minister healing, or am led by the Spirit to prophesy, I can’t look into my mind (or memory) to find the words to speak, or speak from some emotional basis. If I’m led by my intellect the words will be cold, empty and lifeless, if by my emotions they will not be pure and will cause hurt. (CES possibly?) But the words that come from the spirit are pure words, they flow from the throne of God out of the belly and are rivers of living water that refresh and heal.
When I learned this and stopped trying to make “believing” come from my mind (gee, maybe that’s where “make-believe” comes from) then when I laid hands to minister healing, sometimes I would get a picture, a vision from the Spirit, of the cause of the problem and would speak to it. )
Other times, when praying a picture would come, not to my mind but to my spirit, to give information that I don’t have access to in any other way. I’ve seen angels in this way. These are visions like the Bible talks about. We received power after that the Holy Spirit came. I for one am very thankful to God to have tasted and seen just the small bit that I have of the powers of the world to come. And I’m hungry for more…
This happened when I stopped trying to make power come from my mind and realized that I really could be “strengthened with might by His spirit in the inner man” Eph 3:16.
I have read BG Leonard's book, the unadulterated PFAL IMO, and there are things that sound similar -- but that excites me. Because I am seeing what you are saying, I see your verses (and yes some are in TWI we are reading the Bible afterall)
I know there are times when I am speaking in tongues and it does feel as though it comes from almost a different spot. Not the language - I mean my mouth and tongue are engaged, but the core of the operation of it. Like I feel love comes from a different place in me than calculating bills.
We are to pray in the spirit because the spirit knows what needs to be prayed for - so it does bypass the mind. Not that we are in a coma of unable to function in the body...
I know when you, and others who have been with or indirectly learned from BG Leonard, the things you know cannot possibly have been a mental thing -- a mental invention. They sprang from else where. Like when you knew my husband had an injury to the front of his head when he was younger in teen years AND THEN prayed for healing. My husband had been beaten up and wound up in the hospital for days. You could not have had that bloom from your mind -- it had to come from a different place. It was so right and peaceful. We still talk of your prayers for us.
Now that being said, your brain was engaged.
Anyway, I can see that spirit is more of who we are than body.
Wrds
This happened when I stopped trying to make power come from my mind and realized that I really could be “strengthened with might by His spirit in the inner man” Eph 3:16.
I am not sure but I think it is hard to untangle the old teaching I have (corps and other crap) that if I am "in the spirit"and my mind is seperate so-to-speak somehow I am being operated rather that retaining my will. I see you are not saying that -- but I wonder if old teachings of that nature have people unable to see what you are saying.
Another benefit, IMO, of not trying to make power come from my mind is that it frees me to use my mind for what it was meant for, thinking, reasoning, learning, growing intellectually. I’m no longer under the bondage of whatever VP said about putting away other reading materials for the next 3 months (which turned into thirteen years). I want to think deeply and to write clearly. In order to do this I need to read, and not just the Bible. I’ve put myself on a course of study of reading or re-reading the classics, and the Great Books of our Civilization (recently read Aristotle, Kant, Aeschylus, Herodotus, Thucydides, Mill , studying Latin, studying Physics, and getting back into my Greek and Hebrew studies (trying to find time to get back into reading classical Greek).
My Bible study is alive, I’m studying Hebrews. My mind is being fed on great books. I started a blog. I’m not trying to brag, I just want to say that I enjoy thinking and developing my mind. Why are many Christians, especially Charismatic Christians, anti-intellectual? I for one think we need more thinkers to address our culture. I intend to use everything God has given me, including my mind, for His glory and to advance His kingdom.
What if the spirit of man and the spirit of God got together and became one?
Wouldn't it happen 'in the air'? That's in us and around us?
Would that be manifesting the Spirit?
I think you're exactly right. I Corinthians 6:17 "But he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit" vs 16 says, "What, know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, shall be one flesh" "But he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit. Spirit (of God, Holy Spirit) joins with spirit (of man) to become one spirit.
The mind is certainly involved because this is where it all happens.
Transformed into-is not just a change of mind but a total change that keeps going.
Most want 'it' to happen outside of themselves. But it involves each person personally and uniquely.
I don't think the joining happens in the mind, it happens in the spirit, spirit to spirit. But I think I see what you're saying about being transformed by the renewing of the mind.
Wrds
I am not sure but I think it is hard to untangle the old teaching I have (corps and other crap) that if I am "in the spirit"and my mind is seperate so-to-speak somehow I am being operated rather that retaining my will. I see you are not saying that -- but I wonder if old teachings of that nature have people unable to see what you are saying.
Good point, I hadn't thought about that. VP put a lot of fear in people about the Spirit. Probably if people had really started walking by the spirit in TWI they would've flushed out the evil and sin and shut down VP's lust devils.
1 Thessolonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
Killed the thread I guess. I am direct but mean no harm. Laying out a different perspective can turn a head.
Hopefully Son of Master will respond to my many questions. We were not allowed to question in twi. If you have no answer, fine. I'm willing to discuss in detail as much as is within me all that I have posted.
Hey cman. I thought the scripture you shared seemed like closure to me. Pardon me for appearing to "bail". I thought Dot and Wrds were very eloquent in what they had to say. If I didnt address specific questions you had, I apologize. If I didn't directly answer questions, it was because I felt someone else covered it and thought there was no need to repeat it. Is there something I can do for you?
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Son of the Master
John 8 Jesus is teaching in the temple and the Scribes and Pharisees bring in a woman caught in adultery and "set her in the midst".
Verse 5 says, Now Moses in the law commanded us, that she should be stoned: but what do you say?
Verse 6 This they said, tempting Him, that they might accuse Him.
BUT JESUS STOOPED DOWN, AND WITH HIS FINGER WROTE ON THE GROUND, AS THOUGH HE HEARD THEM NOT
(He was not going back to the "files of his mind" or contemplating eating kippersnacks with Dave B@dard)
In other words, He didn't go "mental". Jesus was shifting gears and getting His mind out of the way so He could access the spirit realm. A person has to be at peace to enter in. Remember, it is the "still small voice".
Verse 7...He who is without sin among you....
How can that answer come from his mind? Jesus reached out and took the revelation. Revelation is spiritual information you cannot know by your senses or mind. It is spiritual.
Jesus fulfilled the Law and introduced love.
Love came from heaven and not His mind. Jesus didnt work the Word beforeehand and wait for the opportune moment to teach this new material.
This is one of my favorite records.
He showed mercy instead of judgement. Jesus commuted her death sentence and gave her a new life.
Scribes and Pharisees were hung up on the knowledge of the Law (in their minds) and carrying out the law in the physical.
Jesus waxed spiritual and received the revelation of Love.
It is important to study the Word.
It is important to carry out the Word with Love.
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TrustAndObey
Sounds a lot like what TWI taught to me.. Not saying that your comments separating spirit of man with spriit of God is, but this statement just sounds so TWITish.
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Son of the Master
ok, how do I share that record without sounding TWItish. I thought I got rid of all my TWIthood. Seriously.
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waysider
T-Bone
"Oh, Luuuuuucy! How did your S-Ray go today?"
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T-Bone
Yes, I'd have to agree with Trust and Obey - it reminds me of TWI's way of interpreting the Bible too. Which was usually a trip into parts unknown through the art of speculation and a flair for ignoring context and re-defining words to suit a particular doctrine [as I mentioned in post # 48].
I am amazed that you can draw all that information about what Jesus was thinking…and NOT thinking since He had to get His mind out of the way…What data in the passage suggests any of that to you? For that matter, I can come up with a different reason if I were to force my belief in the divinity of Jesus onto the passage – it would go something like this: Jesus being divine – and knowing what was in the hearts of the accusers – stooped down and wrote in the ground the very commandment that He once penned in stone for Moses. The words written in stone had come alive by the Word made flesh. For centuries, religious leaders enjoyed the power and privilege of twisting the law around to suit their own agenda – as if taming a wild beast. But this day the Lion of Judah turned on them. His stooping and writing merely a ploy to lure them in closer, as if cowering to their tactical advantage. When all at once His words leaped forth – pouncing on their overconfident hearts…All this amounts to is speculations and assumptions – not worth a darn - just like your version.
How do you share the record without sounding like TWI? Break the habit of processing Scripture the way TWI does. A book that I recommend for developing not only Bible study skills but also learning to abstract principles as well is What to Do on Thursday: A Layman's Guide to the Practical Use of the Scriptures by Jay Adams. Besides going over the basics of interpretation [like attention to details of grammar, consulting context: textual, historical, cultural, geographical] it also keeps you on point to discover the author's purpose of a particular passage. And in my opinion, Adams does all that without pushing an agenda and remains consistent in the use of interpretive tools.
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bliss
(((((T)))))
That was lovely! I woulda bought it! See how we get sucked into all that? You could be the next Max Lucado with that writing.
But, sadly, that is what many people in Christian circles do. The writing is so pretty and poetic. Makes us feel good, and caters to our egos. Without realizing it, they read and then talk about these authors books as if they were doing true research of the scriptures.
I think Son of the Master means well. Just like us, he believed a system of thinking/not thinking....................and then took it and left TWI, but, ran right into the arms of the Word/Faith movement! (it was comfortable).
Changing your "believe" to "faith" is hard to swallow...................That "I" am not the center of the universe, but God is, this is a bigger challenge.
If I am wrong Son, tell me. But from your posts I can gather this, but I will not judge your intentions.
In my opinion, Hinn, Hagin, White, Shambam, even Kenyon.........
lots of flair without the coffee.
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cman
What happened to the spirit teaching the Mind?
How is it that Jesus' Mind was bypassed when he explained how it works here-
Matthew 14:25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. 27Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
How is the mind 'bypassed'? Seems to state that the mind is certainly involved.
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T-Bone
Thanks, Bliss!...Maybe I do need to set my sights a little higher. I've sorta been envisioning myself as the next Max Headroom
…I always like the kind and considerate tone your posts bring to a thread - and wish you'd post in Doctrinal more – someone's got to keep me in line 
.
Son of the Master – I do apologize for being so combative. It is not my intention to prove you're position on this thread is wrong and mine is right. It is more of a challenge to your thinking process – my being curious on how you've arrived at your conclusions. And again – not that you're thinking process is wrong and mine is right – not a duel to the death – but a duel to the crux of the matter - an invitation to each to prove they're engaging their best thinking. As Bliss pointed out – another issue has surfaced on this thread – TWI's odd mixture of thought processes…sometimes being very detailed and logical interspersed with speculations, assumptions and lapses of reason.
I am not saying God cannot communicate with people, that there's no such thing as revelation or any of the manifestations you talked about. What I'm saying is that so far you have failed to document from Scripture that it all works the way you've described it. That is the crux of the matter on this "spirit bypasses the mind" stuff.
Cman - great post!!!!!
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wrdsandwrks
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject at hand. This teaching on the born again spirit, I believe, begins to unravel the lack of power and spiritual frustration experienced by many, at least it did for me. How so? One of the most insidious doctrinal teachings, I believe is that “the renewed mind is the KEY to POWER.” There is no power in the mind.
II Kings 6:14-17
…and they came by night and surrounded the city.
And when the servant of the man of God arose early and went out, there was an army, surrounding the city with houses, and chariots. And his servant said to him, “Alas, my master! What shall we do?”
So he answered, “Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them.”
And Elisha prayed, and said, “Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
There is an invisible realm all around us. The spiritual realm is more real than the physical because it is eternal. All the real things in life are in the Spirit. And I cannot think my way there! I can’t believe real hard with my mind and see it. So how do I get there? My mind is powerless. (And which of you, by taking thought, can add one cubit to his stature? Luke 12:25)
The real me is the spirit. (For what man knows the things of a man, if not the spirit of man in him? )
I am not my body or my mind or my emotions. The real me, the me that hungers to know God and to be intimate (spirit to spirit, I Corinthians 6:17- “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.”) with Him is my inward man, the hidden man of the heart.
My mind is like a computer that I use to process thoughts and to store memories, my emotions are to serve the real me. My body is the house I live in, not the real me (Contrary to the constant message we receive from the entertainment industry). When I forget this and focus on my body as the master, or my intellect, or let my emotions rule, then I get in trouble and am powerless. But when my body and soul are subject to the spirit man in me, under the Lordship of the Holy Spirit, then I have life, peace and power.
Don’t know all there is to know about it. Can’t say exactly what happened when I was born-again. But I know that God graciously sent His Spirit and regenerated my spirit and filled it full of the Holy Spirit. And my spirit man came alive, dead to sin but alive unto God, quickened by the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
When I go to minister healing, or am led by the Spirit to prophesy, I can’t look into my mind (or memory) to find the words to speak, or speak from some emotional basis. If I’m led by my intellect the words will be cold, empty and lifeless, if by my emotions they will not be pure and will cause hurt. (CES possibly?) But the words that come from the spirit are pure words, they flow from the throne of God out of the belly and are rivers of living water that refresh and heal.
When I learned this and stopped trying to make “believing” come from my mind (gee, maybe that’s where “make-believe” comes from) then when I laid hands to minister healing, sometimes I would get a picture, a vision from the Spirit, of the cause of the problem and would speak to it. )
Other times, when praying a picture would come, not to my mind but to my spirit, to give information that I don’t have access to in any other way. I’ve seen angels in this way. These are visions like the Bible talks about. We received power after that the Holy Spirit came. I for one am very thankful to God to have tasted and seen just the small bit that I have of the powers of the world to come. And I’m hungry for more…
This happened when I stopped trying to make power come from my mind and realized that I really could be “strengthened with might by His spirit in the inner man” Eph 3:16.
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Dot Matrix
Son
I have read BG Leonard's book, the unadulterated PFAL IMO, and there are things that sound similar -- but that excites me. Because I am seeing what you are saying, I see your verses (and yes some are in TWI we are reading the Bible afterall)
I know there are times when I am speaking in tongues and it does feel as though it comes from almost a different spot. Not the language - I mean my mouth and tongue are engaged, but the core of the operation of it. Like I feel love comes from a different place in me than calculating bills.
We are to pray in the spirit because the spirit knows what needs to be prayed for - so it does bypass the mind. Not that we are in a coma of unable to function in the body...
I know when you, and others who have been with or indirectly learned from BG Leonard, the things you know cannot possibly have been a mental thing -- a mental invention. They sprang from else where. Like when you knew my husband had an injury to the front of his head when he was younger in teen years AND THEN prayed for healing. My husband had been beaten up and wound up in the hospital for days. You could not have had that bloom from your mind -- it had to come from a different place. It was so right and peaceful. We still talk of your prayers for us.
Now that being said, your brain was engaged.
Anyway, I can see that spirit is more of who we are than body.
Wrds
I am not sure but I think it is hard to untangle the old teaching I have (corps and other crap) that if I am "in the spirit"and my mind is seperate so-to-speak somehow I am being operated rather that retaining my will. I see you are not saying that -- but I wonder if old teachings of that nature have people unable to see what you are saying.
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wrdsandwrks
Another benefit, IMO, of not trying to make power come from my mind is that it frees me to use my mind for what it was meant for, thinking, reasoning, learning, growing intellectually. I’m no longer under the bondage of whatever VP said about putting away other reading materials for the next 3 months (which turned into thirteen years). I want to think deeply and to write clearly. In order to do this I need to read, and not just the Bible. I’ve put myself on a course of study of reading or re-reading the classics, and the Great Books of our Civilization (recently read Aristotle, Kant, Aeschylus, Herodotus, Thucydides, Mill , studying Latin, studying Physics, and getting back into my Greek and Hebrew studies (trying to find time to get back into reading classical Greek).
My Bible study is alive, I’m studying Hebrews. My mind is being fed on great books. I started a blog. I’m not trying to brag, I just want to say that I enjoy thinking and developing my mind. Why are many Christians, especially Charismatic Christians, anti-intellectual? I for one think we need more thinkers to address our culture. I intend to use everything God has given me, including my mind, for His glory and to advance His kingdom.
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wrdsandwrks
I think you're exactly right. I Corinthians 6:17 "But he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit" vs 16 says, "What, know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, shall be one flesh" "But he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit. Spirit (of God, Holy Spirit) joins with spirit (of man) to become one spirit.
I don't think the joining happens in the mind, it happens in the spirit, spirit to spirit. But I think I see what you're saying about being transformed by the renewing of the mind.
Good point, I hadn't thought about that. VP put a lot of fear in people about the Spirit. Probably if people had really started walking by the spirit in TWI they would've flushed out the evil and sin and shut down VP's lust devils.
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cman
And where is that spirit?
Like I said most want it to happen outside of themselves.
So it can be analyzed and defined to serve one's self.
Rather then experiencing this occurence within, where the kingdom of heaven and God is.
The defences and guards are taken down, falling like a great wall and scales upon the eyes.
To see the unseeable, the invisable Soul, Spirit, God that so many claim to know.
The body soul and spirit become one-eternal everlasting,
Changing dust to dust and Abraham saw this dust as looked into the heavens which reflect the spirit within.
Your seed shall be.......
A new birth, an awakenening, an enlightenment.
Pick the name of your choice, there are many, should one care to research it from outside the experience,
or from within it.
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cman
1 Thessolonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
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cman
Killed the thread I guess. I am direct but mean no harm. Laying out a different perspective can turn a head.
Hopefully Son of Master will respond to my many questions. We were not allowed to question in twi. If you have no answer, fine. I'm willing to discuss in detail as much as is within me all that I have posted.
Peace-
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Son of the Master
Hey cman. I thought the scripture you shared seemed like closure to me. Pardon me for appearing to "bail". I thought Dot and Wrds were very eloquent in what they had to say. If I didnt address specific questions you had, I apologize. If I didn't directly answer questions, it was because I felt someone else covered it and thought there was no need to repeat it. Is there something I can do for you?
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cman
No problem, it's cool.......
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