Were You Afraid You Might Be A Grease Spot?...

[oldiesman]

...

I feel almost embarrassed and foolish about it looking back. You'd think after years and years of a fear that never materializes would make you wake up. Yet you trust in and believe the teachings of your MOG even though reality around you is saying otherwise. Don't tell me people's words aren't powerful and that brainwashing isn't a reality.

...

I guess brainwashing happens but I don't know of any that existed in twi.

Peoples words are as powerful as you make them in your own mind and decision making, and because of varied experiences in twi, how powerful one made peoples words would be individual thing.

Unless one wants to accuse all religions of engaging in brainwashing their students especially those who one doesn't agree with years later. If that's the case, then I may accuse the religion of my youth for brainwashing me for many years. But that's no answer.

Look, for whatever reason, you CHOSE to believe what you did, it's that simple.

I chose to believe what I did, it's that simple.

At one time, I believed that tithing was the key to prosperity and abundance. Then when I became disenchanted and wanted to really test the theory, and stopped tithing, I discovered it didn't work for me, and knew that tithing had nothing to do with my prosperity and abundance. There you go, I have accepted my choice and discarded it according to my choice.

But, I can only speak for myself. Someone else may feel that tithing or abs does bring them some prosperity and abundance. Who am I to argue?

The bottom line, this is the United States of America, with freedom of religion.

Thank God each of us may choose what we choose to believe.

[Ham]

Unless one wants to accuse all religions of engaging in brainwashing their students especially those who one doesn't agree with years later

Why not accuse them?

how is it that those of a different religion are as convinced about their product as you are on yours?

They say God is red, you say he's green.. and they can show with apparent logic why their take on the almighty is correct, and yours is wrong..

you would think that a well thought through, logical decision would result in the same opinion.

Somebody has to be "wrong".. at least I would think.

There must be a reason why people are so convinced. Some are convinced enough to kill for their belief.

Edited May 24, 2007 by Mr. Hammeroni

[Bolshevik]

I guess brainwashing happens but I don't know of any that existed in twi.

As far as I know you left before LCM's reign?

I think most people here mean to say mind control?

Edited May 24, 2007 by Bolshevik

[Ham]

I guess brainwashing happens but I don't know of any that existed in twi.

You know, that kind of statement may be proof positive that it indeed did..

[oldiesman]

Then how would you define brainwashing?

And at what degree would it turn from learning, to out-and-out brainwashing?

Can you give some examples of what you believe to be legitimate brainwashing encounters?

[Bolshevik]

Then how would you define brainwashing?

And at what degree would it turn from learning, to out-and-out brainwashing?

Can you give some examples of what you believe to be legitimate brainwashing encounters?

I think it was from a book on this site that defined the difference between mind control and brainwashing. I'll see if I can find it unless someone else does.

and as far as examples. I can think of a lot of things. I have to wait until we get definitions out of the way. I will say what they did was far from honest and loving.

[Ham]

Honestly.. I think "these kind" of people, and not limited to der vey, view us as cattle to be herded and bartered..

I am beginning to think it is ALL a form of "brainwashing", of one form or another, one severity or another.

I think they prey on man's baser instincts.

In "the old days", to be outside of the group meant basically death. I think we have vestiges of this fear, wired in. When you were "in", what was the GREATEST fear? I think for most, to be put out.

[Bolshevik]

. . . the exact definition of mind control and the extent to which it might have any kind of influence over individuals are debated.

found this a wikipedia.org

there's quit a bit there. even a review of Margaret Singer's book.

The recent thread on women I think shows their manipulative behavior. (twi's behavior)

Wives - the Non-Person People of TWI

Edited May 24, 2007 by Bolshevik

[Bolshevik]

[edit]Criticism of love bombing and response

Critics of "cults" often cite love bombing as one of the features that may identify an organization as a "cult." When used by critics, the phrase is defined to mean affection that is feigned or at least not entirely sincere and that is used to reduce the subject's resistance to recruitment.[5]

The term was popularized by psychology professor Margaret Singer, who has become closely identified with the love-bombing-as-brainwashing point of view.[6] She used the term in 1981 when testifying in a lawsuit on behalf of the Daily Mail. (The Unification Church had sued the newspaper for libel, in regard to stories the newspaper had published about David Adler's experiences with the church).[7] In her testimony Singer said that she had interviewed over five hundred members of various sects, about half of them members of the Unification Church. She said that the church's use of a showering of intense affection was more effective than the brainwashing techniques used by the North Koreans on prisoners of war. In a 1996 book entitled Cults in Our Midst, she described the technique thus:

As soon as any interest is shown by the recruits, they may be love bombed by the recruiter or other cult members. This process of feigning friendship and interest in the recruit was originally associated with one of the early youth cults, but soon it was taken up by a number of groups as part of their program for luring people in. Love bombing is a coordinated effort, usually under the direction of leadership, that involves long-term members' flooding recruits and newer members with flattery, verbal seduction, affectionate but usually nonsexual touching, and lots of attention to their every remark. Love bombing - or the offer of instant companionship - is a deceptive ploy accounting for many successful recruitment drives.[8]

This view of love bombing is strongly rejected by the groups involved, who take exception to the assertions that the interest and friendship are "feigned," that it is a "coordinated effort," that it amounts to "verbal seduction," that it "part of [a] program for luring people in," or that it is a "deceptive ploy."

Damian Anderson, member of the Unification Church and prominent promoter of it on the Internet writes:

One man's love-bombing is another man's being showered with attention. Everyone likes such care and attention, so it is unfortunate that when we love as Jesus taught us to love, that we are then accused of having ulterior motives.[9]

from wikipedia.org

Edited May 24, 2007 by Bolshevik

[socks]

Answers.com definition of brainwash -

1. Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs.

2. The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.

I think O-Man's correct about Christianity, if not other religions, especially the American versions.

All of the crap about following people, doing what they say because they're "leadership" and all of that - that's the part that's lukewarm spew-wash. I respect others and what they try to do. But the basic message of Christianity is to follow Jesus Christ - by choice. Everyone is called, some respond. Those who do open themselves up to change their beliefs and lifestyle to a new one.

The beauty of that system to me is - people answer to a personal "savior", and God is considered a "Father". The relationship is familial.

But I was never afraid of being a GS, as it came to be called. I do think that the fundamental things I believed, learned in the Way, made me more of an individual and not less. I probably resisted some things, accounting for why I did some things, not others. The things I liked, that seemed right for me, I pursued. Some of the other stuff went along with it, but I think that's true of anything you "join", like a church. The Way was very pushy about getting into everything, and for years I thought the natural evolution would flow away from that as we tried things and learned, but it didn't.

So when I determined to leave the Way I was prepared for it. In fact I realized that it felt completely normal and right to make a decision like that. I had come to really not like how the Way was conducting it's business and what was expected, so it was relatively easy to make the basic decision and then start to figure out what I wanted to do. We prayed about it, thought about it, talked to others and that was that.

Compared to what others say that might sound impossible, crazy talk. Dunno.

Edited May 25, 2007 by socks

[waysider]

Then how would you define brainwashing?

And at what degree would it turn from learning, to out-and-out brainwashing?

Can you give some examples of what you believe to be legitimate brainwashing encounters?

Oldies

Here's one I've posted on several times.

I even posted this one to you on the "freewill" thread about a week ago.

There are many, many similar incidents along the same lines as this one. Perhaps the recurrance itself is a point worthy of note.

In Fellowlaborers(mid '70s), we were aroused from sleep in the middle of the night and ordered to report to limb hq in 20 minutes.( important item of note: we lived in a commune) It was a 30 minute trip. When we arrived we had to sit in total darkness and total silence not knowing how long we would have to wait or even the reason we were being summoned. (Remember that we worked full time secular jobs and all our extra time was committed to the program. )Finally, we were confronted by the limb leader who told us we were all failures and the program was being cancelled. There was no explanation given and there were no questions allowed. There was to be no discussion amongst ourselves.

The next morning, at 5:30, we assembled for one last morning fellowship.

We were told that revelation had changed and we were being given one more chance but we had better tow the line and do exactly as we were told or the program would be cancelled for good.

There were many, many other incidents that paralled this in intensity.

Was I damaged beyond repair by this event?

Obviously not. But that is not the point.

The point is, you asked at what point something goes beyong teaching and enter the realm of control. To this day, I have no idea what this was supposed to teach us , other than they were in control and we had better do as they said.

You asked for examples so there ya go!

( There were about 50 other people in that room who could verify that if they chose to do so. I only bring this up to illustrate that I don't make this stuff up.)

[Bolshevik]

this is the second time I've heard "and then revelation changed"

proof enough that control was intended.

[markomalley]

Were You Afraid You Might Be A Grease Spot?..., ...and that Believing=receiving might be true?

No

[GrouchoMarxJr]

When I decided to leave twi (1987), it was because I finally figured out that most of what they taught was bull sh *t...therefore, it didn't bother me a bit...in fact, it was quite liberating and refreshing.