I think that your mistake was thinking that Martindale would conduct himself as a loving, concerned Christian minister...he was none of those things...
groucho - He was loving, but to whom at the moment, the courts are figuring out. He was concerned, but it was for his own butt. the christian part is extremely debatable, we'll get back to you on that one.
I remember one time I wrote Craig a personal letter. I told him how I was so disgusted and how basically I wasn't seeing the power of God move in our ministry. I asked for help (thinking he could give some as the MOG). I wanted to do anything I could do to help get the ministry "back on track".
I had noticed how cold the fellowships were that I had visited and a real lack of love for people especially between "clergy" and "laity".
Instead of Craig sitting down with me and talking it over with me and seeing my concern, he sent one of his goons to hunt me down on campus and dragged me back to his office. Craig proceeded to yell at me at the top of his lungs for about a half hour. Swearing of course and telling me how I needed to get off of my high horse and get right with God.
Of course he had his top 4 goons there in the room with me, staring me down and giving me the evil eye (no doubt they were operating discerning of spirits).
Craig screamed at me more than once asking, "Who the f#@k are you?". Of course petrified, like a good little disciple, I fell in-line hoping God wasn't going to take his protection off of me for pis$ing off the MOG.
How blind I was.
Craig knew there wasn't any miracles, he knew the ministry sucked, and that's why anyone who was going to call him on it had to be silenced. I was a threat, he handled it.
CULT. CULT. CULT. CULT...
Lone Wolf
Why did he need 4 individuals in the room with him? What technique is this? and why is this method often used by groups?
What was his behavior towards you after?
What action did you take after this incident?
Were you observed(WATCHED) by them after this incident?
Was there a "Directed Teaching" after this incident?
Did you find the answers that you were seeking?
Did they label you as a trouble maker?
Were you isolated by key personnel after this incident?
Did Mr. matindale give you a chance to explain your concerns? or was it zero dialog.
Why did he need 4 individuals in the room with him? What technique is this? and why is this method often used by groups?
I don't know. I wish I knew. Can you recommend any literature to help me understand these "techniques" you mention?
What was his behavior towards you after?
Distant
What action did you take after this incident?
Well, I had to meet with Rev. Dic# Face so he could see if I was responding to the confrontation
Were you observed(WATCHED) by them after this incident?
Yes. As a matter of fact, as I was leaving the office Craig said to Rev. Dic# Face, loud enough so I could hear, "Watch him".
Was there a "Directed Teaching" after this incident?
I can't remember.
Did you find the answers that you were seeking?
Well, I guess I found the answers they wanted me to find, which was, I need to lose my ego and obey God's direction via the MOG.
Did they label you as a trouble maker?
Yes.
Were you isolated by key personnel after this incident?
Yes. Like I had to prove myself for awhile before I could speak with them on friendly terms again.
Did Mr. matindale give you a chance to explain your concerns? or was it zero dialog.
Yes, but only after reaming me for 30 minutes. After that, I was left a little speechless actually so I didn't have the composure to tell him what a jack a$$ he was. I was very afraid.
I saw the same "goon" technique used during the reign of VPW.(1978 or 1979)
A particular believer who lived hundreds of miles from Int. HQ, spoke out against some things he had experienced while outside his local area.
Within days, there were "goons" at his front door informing him( matter of factlly) that "bad" things could happen to him if he continued to speak out against what he saw.( Not "spiritual" things, if you get my drift.) It was not an open discussion. He got the message and stopped speaking out.
I didn't know what to make of it at the time but this person was someone I knew very well and not prone to fabrication or exageration by any stretch of the imagination. It confused me greatly. I haven't talked to this person in decades. Geography has a way of helping people drift apart.(especially in the pre- internet era.)
If you mean the group of people that watched somebody get reamed and expelled from the ministry simply because he was sick and had to get up to go to the bathroom, and the rest did not object, or challenge the judgment of those who set themselves up as God's representative, the answer is no.
The whole "fellowship" should have gotten up and kicked their collective asses. But we didn't know better at the time.
This is one of the moments that I relive at times.
I sat quietly for too long,To sit there and do nothing while peoples lives were destroyed
was is wrong,finally through waydale then greasespot I realized what an foot I had been
enough was enough,Lcm was is insane,whatever chemical imbalance he has I hpoe he
gets help for it.
Incidently I apologized to everyone I thought or had wronged,some i could not as they had died.
All you can do is move ahead and make damn sure I never ever get sucked in
We "the household if you will were are deceived" I can say honestly I will never be in a organization
again.
Question now is will I get mad at someone?yes Will I be quick to judge?yes But by god if I do somthing wrong to someone I will tell them The self righteos sh&& is over
Oh, yes. These are UNRESOLVED issues, at least by those, including me, who have the issues.
I can live with it if I have to.. no friggin way I can even attempt to fix it in the minimum of 24 hours that the craigster recommended. Regardless of what some may think, I am at peace, one way or another.
I wonder what it is doing to the craigster himself.
Lone Wolf-you are not alone. They did the same thing to me and to many others. They learned this technique from the military. It's an intimidation technique.
You must read the book "The Subtle Power of Spritual Absue".
Questioning leadership is the one thing that really gets their feathers riled up.
Lone Wolf-you are not alone. They did the same thing to me and to many others. They learned this technique from the military. It's an intimidation technique.
You must read the book "The Subtle Power of Spritual Absue".
Questioning leadership is the one thing that really gets their feathers riled up.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I think that your mistake was thinking that Martindale would conduct himself as a loving, concerned Christian minister...he was none of those things...
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Out There
groucho - He was loving, but to whom at the moment, the courts are figuring out. He was concerned, but it was for his own butt. the christian part is extremely debatable, we'll get back to you on that one.
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Captain Spiritural
Why did he need 4 individuals in the room with him? What technique is this? and why is this method often used by groups?
What was his behavior towards you after?
What action did you take after this incident?
Were you observed(WATCHED) by them after this incident?
Was there a "Directed Teaching" after this incident?
Did you find the answers that you were seeking?
Did they label you as a trouble maker?
Were you isolated by key personnel after this incident?
Did Mr. matindale give you a chance to explain your concerns? or was it zero dialog.
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Lone Wolf McQuade
I don't know. I wish I knew. Can you recommend any literature to help me understand these "techniques" you mention?
DistantWell, I had to meet with Rev. Dic# Face so he could see if I was responding to the confrontation
Yes. As a matter of fact, as I was leaving the office Craig said to Rev. Dic# Face, loud enough so I could hear, "Watch him".I can't remember.
Well, I guess I found the answers they wanted me to find, which was, I need to lose my ego and obey God's direction via the MOG.Yes.
Yes. Like I had to prove myself for awhile before I could speak with them on friendly terms again.Yes, but only after reaming me for 30 minutes. After that, I was left a little speechless actually so I didn't have the composure to tell him what a jack a$$ he was. I was very afraid.
I guarantee, that shi# won't happen again.
Lone Wolf McQuade
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waysider
This was NOT unique to LCM.
I saw the same "goon" technique used during the reign of VPW.(1978 or 1979)
A particular believer who lived hundreds of miles from Int. HQ, spoke out against some things he had experienced while outside his local area.
Within days, there were "goons" at his front door informing him( matter of factlly) that "bad" things could happen to him if he continued to speak out against what he saw.( Not "spiritual" things, if you get my drift.) It was not an open discussion. He got the message and stopped speaking out.
I didn't know what to make of it at the time but this person was someone I knew very well and not prone to fabrication or exageration by any stretch of the imagination. It confused me greatly. I haven't talked to this person in decades. Geography has a way of helping people drift apart.(especially in the pre- internet era.)
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Lone Wolf McQuade
As a matter of fact, Paul Mosqueda was the only person who built me up. He was one of the only quality people I ever knew in the Corp.
Lone Wolf McQuade
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Captain Spiritural
Can you share of other experiences wi key personnel
Did other people shared there concerns wi you
What year did this incident take place
Would you consider in going back if not why not?
Are there other cases at this website that I can go to and study no no i mean read?
Is this a close Chapter for you concerning this incident or do you feel you need to confront Mr. Matindale
Was Craig ever a loving and tender Minister ?
Do you think he might have been dealing with a mental sickness?
Why was he so abusive to you guys at hqs? Do you or have you foriven him for that abuse?
Why didnt the people in the Corps confront the evil that was there
What do you think of Christianity Now!
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Listener
Hey, Cap't...are you practising asking questions?...or what? :unsure:
May I suggest a statement. Might get a little more mileage.
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Ham
I think if he ever was, it was before vic got his claws in him.
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Ham
If you mean the group of people that watched somebody get reamed and expelled from the ministry simply because he was sick and had to get up to go to the bathroom, and the rest did not object, or challenge the judgment of those who set themselves up as God's representative, the answer is no.
The whole "fellowship" should have gotten up and kicked their collective asses. But we didn't know better at the time.
This is one of the moments that I relive at times.
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excathedra
seriously , i knew the jerkoff before he hurt so many people
i told him when veepee died, it was his time to set it all straight
i can't even tell you how badly he wiped the floor with me
sad huh
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Ham
I've lost my innocence. I simply do not have the capacity to trust like I did.
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excathedra
captain you should know these answers since you're spiritual
:)
just kidding with you
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Captain Spiritural
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frank123lol
I sat quietly for too long,To sit there and do nothing while peoples lives were destroyed
was is wrong,finally through waydale then greasespot I realized what an foot I had been
enough was enough,Lcm was is insane,whatever chemical imbalance he has I hpoe he
gets help for it.
Incidently I apologized to everyone I thought or had wronged,some i could not as they had died.
All you can do is move ahead and make damn sure I never ever get sucked in
We "the household if you will were are deceived" I can say honestly I will never be in a organization
again.
Question now is will I get mad at someone?yes Will I be quick to judge?yes But by god if I do somthing wrong to someone I will tell them The self righteos sh&& is over
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GrouchoMarxJr
Captain Spiritural...welcome to the Cafe...You've come to the right place for answers...try some coffee, I heard that excathedra spiked it tonight!
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Ham
I don't think they'd be able to change to the extent that I would consider.
I've grown and changed since leaving, they'd have to catch up with me to begin with.
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Ham
Oh, yes. These are UNRESOLVED issues, at least by those, including me, who have the issues.
I can live with it if I have to.. no friggin way I can even attempt to fix it in the minimum of 24 hours that the craigster recommended. Regardless of what some may think, I am at peace, one way or another.
I wonder what it is doing to the craigster himself.
I wonder if he'll wait for another day..
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polar bear
Lone Wolf-you are not alone. They did the same thing to me and to many others. They learned this technique from the military. It's an intimidation technique.
You must read the book "The Subtle Power of Spritual Absue".
Questioning leadership is the one thing that really gets their feathers riled up.
Glad to have you here.
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excathedra
what are the questions again ?
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Listener
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Captain Spiritural
Explain Military technique how? what form?
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WordWolf
Mc Quade,
here, have some butter and lemon.
A proper "grilling" just isn't complete without some marinade or something,
and you're definitely getting grilled....
You can find some across "About the Way", and in "My Story".Be prepared to look around.
This site is more "organic" than "mechanical" so you can't just pull casefiles
in seconds.
*gets out the A-1 Steak Sauce*
And people in the Corps "confronted the evil that was there" on a number of occassions.
That's why lcm had 4 goons with him to "dialogue" with this guy.
Standard policy at twi: crush dissent utterly, using fear and other methods.
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Captain Spiritural
oops
Edited by Captain SpirituralLink to comment
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