I am glad that John Shoenheit had the courage to confront and to exposed the "Sodom and Gomorrah" of our time TWI.... God in his way will torch it's empty hull.
I am glad that John Shoenheit had the courage to confront and to exposed the "Sodom and Gomorrah" of our time TWI.... God in his way will torch it's empty hull.
...and the funny part is that twi shot itself in the foot by making a big deal out of it and firing Shoenheit...
...they could have easily buried it by letting it "lay on the desk" with numerous other research papers that never saw the light of day...but NOOOOOOOOO...their arrogance led them to make a big deal out of it. They felt that John had confronted them and they were not about to let it slide...
...The paper was turned into Walter (head of the dept.)...and then Walter presented it to the board of trustees and made the comment that "this paper could cause some trouble" or something to that effect...
King okie (whom I'm sure took it quite personally), jumped all over it and decided to make a big deal out of it...
Shoenheit wouldn't back down and had made the decision to mail it out to as many twi leaders as possible in case he was fired...he was and it was...
Supposedly...anyone who even read the paper was instantly fired...I know of one guy in particular, an ordained clergymen from the 6th corps (region leader), who never even read it but passed it along to others whom he thought might be interested in the subject matter...was fired on the spot...and this guy was a top shelf leader!...his name was Bob M*rab**o...if you knew him, you know what I'm talking about.
Being on the field, we all heard that the paper named names and read like a tabloid. At least, that's what I heard from the last twig leader I had in TWI. Then I read it on waydale. Didn't name names; came off to me as an extended word study on adultery. Before that I was willing to give TWI the benefit of any doubt about the alleged sex scandal stuff. That discrepancy was really the first clue I had that..."somebody's got to be a LIAR"!
I really don't understand the hub-bub about John Schoenheit. When I was talking with people who fellowship with CES, and telling them what was going on with the personal prophecy, I heard many times about how John Schoenheit wrote this wonderful book, and he studied all about it, and how great it was that John S. was with CES, blah, blah, blah.
He's not a bad guy, that I know of, and he's obviously smarter than the average Joe, but really, what has he done to deserve all this adoration? Write a paper saying adultry is wrong? Write a book on personal prophesy? Is that all it takes? Or has he done something, anything, besides just being a nice guy, that I don't know about?
Hmmm. Even when there's something in it for him, he won't compromise what he believes the Bible to say.
He has been through some of the same things a lot of us went through with TWI, but he's still swinging away at the goal of the Word over the World. He won't give up, just because Weirwille turned out to be a charlatan.
He's a total Boy Scout. Pure hearted. Brain the size of Alaska. All grown up, and still believes that God has a calling for his life, and that his life makes a difference. He hasn't given up, and probably never will.
I've just gotta love that about him.
He's also a perfect gentleman.
He's by no means the only wonderful guy that went through TWI, but in my opinion, he's one of the two or three front-runners.
I really don't understand the hub-bub about John Schoenheit. When I was talking with people who fellowship with CES, and telling them what was going on with the personal prophecy, I heard many times about how John Schoenheit wrote this wonderful book, and he studied all about it, and how great it was that John S. was with CES, blah, blah, blah.
He's not a bad guy, that I know of, and he's obviously smarter than the average Joe, but really, what has he done to deserve all this adoration? Write a paper saying adultry is wrong? Write a book on personal prophesy? Is that all it takes? Or has he done something, anything, besides just being a nice guy, that I don't know about?
Vegan -- Hey there. :) John S. is a real person.
Nother words --- he has no agenda like some do.
From my perspective -- he lives to learn and teach the Bible.
He doesn't aspire to greatness. He seems to be happiest with a bunch of research books in front of him,
and not some adoring congregation (like some other folks that we know of).
One of his more poignant teachings (yes -- on a tape from CES) is:
The Last Week Of Christ's Life.
If you would like a copy of it, PM me with your address, and I'll send you a copy.
CES allows reproduction of whatever info they send out, so it's not *stealing* to send it to you.
This is one teaching that absolutely *knocked my socks off*.
When John teaches -- he's not promoting CES or any other ministry.
He promotes God's Word, and he has the gift for doing it for any and all listening.
Let's just say his enthusiasm for God's Word is contagious!! ;)
The one time I met him, during a singles camp for CES Memorial Day of 2000, I thought he was cool too. He really tried to lead people to a personal walk, AND PARTICIPATION.... without his own agenda. I always liked his teaching style too. I'm the type where my mind really wanders if it's a boring teaching, and he always kept my interest.
I hesitate going into this on this board, because I don't want this to turn into a bash thread, but I putting it delicatly, I always thought JAL was a much better writer than teacher. When I bought the original CES tapes, 7years back, Discovering God's Word, JAL did most of the verbal teaching on tape, and man, what can I say...someone needs to lovingly tell that guy his calling aint in verbal teaching. I would skip all his, and dig out Schoenheits, and the others before I could listen to JAL. Not being mean. Or I'm not trying to anyway. It's just I don't think his calling was for verbal teachings.
I always thought if I would take a "Holy Land Tour" I would love it to be with JS
hey rottie,
I agree with that. JAL is an excellent writer, but not so great of a speaker.
I've always enjoyed hearing JS teaching on tape/CD or in person. He is good at it, very knowledgeable, not dull.
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excathedra
okay i'm sorry i was a big jerk
my point was more about a mindset than a person
again, i'm sorry
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RainbowsGirl
I am glad that John Shoenheit had the courage to confront and to exposed the "Sodom and Gomorrah" of our time TWI.... God in his way will torch it's empty hull.
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dmiller
For those who haven't read or seen it --- THE ADULTERY PAPER
by John Schoenheit can be read here, at GSC.
In an extra comment to those found on the opening page,
I can add that *leadership* (back then), made the claim that ---
"If you read this paper, you will get possessed."
Lovely, eh?? Last I heard from twi about this particular subject was ---
Ya gotta open up your mind to them (devil spirits) before they (devil spirits) can *come in*.
Well -- whoop-tee-dooo. Here's an excerpt that leads to *possession* ---
Yup -- you just got pozzezzed by reading that there.
No wonder the *fine folks* at Hdqtrs got out of the sack, to denounce this paper.
(edited to add *devil spirits* in the sentence after "Lovely, eh??"
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excathedra
i can't remember, did he write that paper while the one-eyed bandit was still alive ?
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dmiller
From the comments section, written by John S. ---
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excathedra
when did veepee kick the bucket ?
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dmiller
May 20th, 1985
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excathedra
thanks, d
wonder if shoenheit knew adultery was wrong when the bastad was alive ha !
again sowwy
he was probably scared of or deceived or whatever by the big mogman like i was
but HE was ordained !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha
thanks, d
wonder if shoenheit knew adultery was wrong when the bastad was alive ha !
again sowwy
he was probably scared of or deceived or whatever by the big mogman like i was
but HE was ordained !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha
---
ohmygod it's established it must be right
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GrouchoMarxJr
...and the funny part is that twi shot itself in the foot by making a big deal out of it and firing Shoenheit...
...they could have easily buried it by letting it "lay on the desk" with numerous other research papers that never saw the light of day...but NOOOOOOOOO...their arrogance led them to make a big deal out of it. They felt that John had confronted them and they were not about to let it slide...
...The rest is history.
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excathedra
big snort
what a buncha losers
why was that anyway ? why did they get mad ? was geer behind it ? walter ? craigo ?
i can't remember
was it because he did a research paper without a stamp ?
damn what was all the hoopla about ?
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dmiller
If I recollect correct -- lcm was in *charge* at the time.
but --- that was also the time frame when he, Don, and Howard were issuing *apologies*
for their *possession*, as noted by CG.
I'm guessing they didn't want the apple cart to be upset.
(Just my imo).
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GrouchoMarxJr
Let's see how much of this I remember...
...The paper was turned into Walter (head of the dept.)...and then Walter presented it to the board of trustees and made the comment that "this paper could cause some trouble" or something to that effect...
King okie (whom I'm sure took it quite personally), jumped all over it and decided to make a big deal out of it...
Shoenheit wouldn't back down and had made the decision to mail it out to as many twi leaders as possible in case he was fired...he was and it was...
Supposedly...anyone who even read the paper was instantly fired...I know of one guy in particular, an ordained clergymen from the 6th corps (region leader), who never even read it but passed it along to others whom he thought might be interested in the subject matter...was fired on the spot...and this guy was a top shelf leader!...his name was Bob M*rab**o...if you knew him, you know what I'm talking about.
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dmiller
Thank you Groucho. :)
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johniam
Being on the field, we all heard that the paper named names and read like a tabloid. At least, that's what I heard from the last twig leader I had in TWI. Then I read it on waydale. Didn't name names; came off to me as an extended word study on adultery. Before that I was willing to give TWI the benefit of any doubt about the alleged sex scandal stuff. That discrepancy was really the first clue I had that..."somebody's got to be a LIAR"!
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notinKansasanymore
John Schoenheit is one of the finest and most honest people I've ever met in my life. Or will ever meet.
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VeganXTC
I really don't understand the hub-bub about John Schoenheit. When I was talking with people who fellowship with CES, and telling them what was going on with the personal prophecy, I heard many times about how John Schoenheit wrote this wonderful book, and he studied all about it, and how great it was that John S. was with CES, blah, blah, blah.
He's not a bad guy, that I know of, and he's obviously smarter than the average Joe, but really, what has he done to deserve all this adoration? Write a paper saying adultry is wrong? Write a book on personal prophesy? Is that all it takes? Or has he done something, anything, besides just being a nice guy, that I don't know about?
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notinKansasanymore
What's special about Shoenheit?
Hmmm. Even when there's something in it for him, he won't compromise what he believes the Bible to say.
He has been through some of the same things a lot of us went through with TWI, but he's still swinging away at the goal of the Word over the World. He won't give up, just because Weirwille turned out to be a charlatan.
He's a total Boy Scout. Pure hearted. Brain the size of Alaska. All grown up, and still believes that God has a calling for his life, and that his life makes a difference. He hasn't given up, and probably never will.
I've just gotta love that about him.
He's also a perfect gentleman.
He's by no means the only wonderful guy that went through TWI, but in my opinion, he's one of the two or three front-runners.
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dmiller
Vegan -- Hey there. :) John S. is a real person.
Nother words --- he has no agenda like some do.
From my perspective -- he lives to learn and teach the Bible.
He doesn't aspire to greatness. He seems to be happiest with a bunch of research books in front of him,
and not some adoring congregation (like some other folks that we know of).
One of his more poignant teachings (yes -- on a tape from CES) is:
The Last Week Of Christ's Life.
If you would like a copy of it, PM me with your address, and I'll send you a copy.
CES allows reproduction of whatever info they send out, so it's not *stealing* to send it to you.
This is one teaching that absolutely *knocked my socks off*.
When John teaches -- he's not promoting CES or any other ministry.
He promotes God's Word, and he has the gift for doing it for any and all listening.
Let's just say his enthusiasm for God's Word is contagious!! ;)
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excathedra
i guess i fail in the enthusiasm department
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Son of the Master
No you don't. You are wonderful!
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excathedra
mwah !
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caribousam
hey rottie,
I agree with that. JAL is an excellent writer, but not so great of a speaker.
I've always enjoyed hearing JS teaching on tape/CD or in person. He is good at it, very knowledgeable, not dull.
CS
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