I agree. John was a good friend "back in the days" when I was involved with "reaearch" with TWI. I'm sorry to read about the troubles at CES. I remember being in Israel on a Bible Land Tour in the 80s and walking around the Old City trying to bargain with shopkeepers for souvenirs with John and his then wife. It was fun hanging out with them
Yeah, I loved it when he came to town and did a presentation on OT history. I did what he suggested about reading the straight history first a few times, THEN filling it in with the law, lists, geneologies, prophets and other stuff. I liked the way he taught the book of Esther, too.
During twi's "prime years", Schoenheit had a reputation of "knowing the word" as well as Wierwille...mainly because Wierwille made that statement numerous times in public...(my guess is that he knew it far better than Wierwille) I suppose this is why he was the head of the research dept...
He was also the one who blew the lid off of the "adultery issue" with his, now infamous, "adultery paper"...which can be found here at GS...
Of course, he, like the rest of us, swallowed Wierwille's wrong doctrines for years and years ...and also bought in to CES's crazy doctrines of spiders in noses and all the momentus crap...nice guy?...sure, but I wouldn't hang my hat on his "spiritual expertise".
I got to hang out with John S. one night a few years ago. I was explaining what GS was all about. At the time, CES was fairly anti-GS. He actually "got" it.
He really had no idea the impact things like the Adultery paper had on Ex-way folks.
I like John. I don't like the situation that he is in right now.
I have to chime in here and agree... his Old Testament class was a highlight of my time at Emporia. Especially his OT is 60 seconds (or however short). Got my attention.
I remember that the day the class concluded, the college program folks went roller-skating and he came along. He always seemed like a genuine person in the midst of a lot of wannabe mogs.
And, like others have posted, I wish he would find a way to dis-entangle himself from the CES mess.
John S. can open up, and teach the OT like no one else. :)
I agree wholheartedly. The John I remember always had a passion to teach and impart to others. He was an unselfish teacher void of ego. I am sure he needs healing like the rest of us. He was always kind to me and my researcher wife.
The one time I met him, during a singles camp for CES Memorial Day of 2000, I thought he was cool too. He really tried to lead people to a personal walk, AND PARTICIPATION.... without his own agenda. I always liked his teaching style too. I'm the type where my mind really wanders if it's a boring teaching, and he always kept my interest.
I hesitate going into this on this board, because I don't want this to turn into a bash thread, but I putting it delicatly, I always thought JAL was a much better writer than teacher. When I bought the original CES tapes, 7years back, Discovering God's Word, JAL did most of the verbal teaching on tape, and man, what can I say...someone needs to lovingly tell that guy his calling aint in verbal teaching. I would skip all his, and dig out Schoenheits, and the others before I could listen to JAL. Not being mean. Or I'm not trying to anyway. It's just I don't think his calling was for verbal teachings.
I always thought if I would take a "Holy Land Tour" I would love it to be with JS
John's paper confronting adultery was the big chance for the TWI to repent and get it together but....
I admired him for publicly confronting the top leadership
I remember when I was first becoming aware of this stuff. I was still kind of going to a wayfer offshoot (bob cardens' group in stepfordville...er....naperville) and I told some female "leader" "gawd i hate that term" about that and she told me that JS went around that the wrong way. He should have kept that quiet. Shhhh! we don't want to know the perverts among us! That was one of my first red flags there was still something terribly wrong with these wayfer groups.
I'll give credit where credit is due...Shoenheit DID confront twi's top leadership with the adultery paper...when the "top boys" caught wind of it, they fired him and anybody else who read the paper! (John sent it out to numerous leaders of twi)...
He hit a nerve, to put it mildly...and that's when I found out that twi was only concerned about keeping their sins hidden and continuing in them...they went on a slash and burn campaign that gutted many wonderful people...they discarded folks who had given their all...talented, dedicated people...threw them under the bus without a second thought...why?...because they had dared to say that adultery was wrong!...
...and this adultery continued for years afterwards...until it finally took the legal system to get that scum bucket Martindale out of there...and make no mistake about it...Rosie knew what was going on and condoned it...it's in a legal deposition!
Somebody ought to take a flamethrower to that place.
yeah ... I gotta wonder ... how many brilliant corps really thought adultery was fine?
It had to be kept an inner sanctum secret that it was OK, because no legitimate Bible person would accept that VP's and other's sex outside their marriage was somehow OK. Perhaps the enlightened few that went along were not fooling as many as they tried to pretend they were ...
Good that JS took the stand ... and wild that the twi elite went so ballistic ... but what of those that never really went with the adultery thing ... did JS go along with it for quite some time? Did he (and so many others) just look the other way for many years? I know some of the "wonderful rebellious clergy" ... "partied on Garth" for quite some time.
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wrdsandwrks
I agree. John was a good friend "back in the days" when I was involved with "reaearch" with TWI. I'm sorry to read about the troubles at CES. I remember being in Israel on a Bible Land Tour in the 80s and walking around the Old City trying to bargain with shopkeepers for souvenirs with John and his then wife. It was fun hanging out with them
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Eagle
John's "Then" wife? I haven't kept in touch with him since the 80s. Genevieve was his wife. Have they split and has he remarried?
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wrdsandwrks
He was married to Diane then. I think they split up shortly after POP but I haven't kept in touch.
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polar bear
He was one of the few I enjoyed hearing too back in twi daze.
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dmiller
John S. can open up, and teach the OT like no one else. :)
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johniam
Yeah, I loved it when he came to town and did a presentation on OT history. I did what he suggested about reading the straight history first a few times, THEN filling it in with the law, lists, geneologies, prophets and other stuff. I liked the way he taught the book of Esther, too.
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GrouchoMarxJr
During twi's "prime years", Schoenheit had a reputation of "knowing the word" as well as Wierwille...mainly because Wierwille made that statement numerous times in public...(my guess is that he knew it far better than Wierwille) I suppose this is why he was the head of the research dept...
He was also the one who blew the lid off of the "adultery issue" with his, now infamous, "adultery paper"...which can be found here at GS...
Of course, he, like the rest of us, swallowed Wierwille's wrong doctrines for years and years ...and also bought in to CES's crazy doctrines of spiders in noses and all the momentus crap...nice guy?...sure, but I wouldn't hang my hat on his "spiritual expertise".
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pawtucket
I got to hang out with John S. one night a few years ago. I was explaining what GS was all about. At the time, CES was fairly anti-GS. He actually "got" it.
He really had no idea the impact things like the Adultery paper had on Ex-way folks.
I like John. I don't like the situation that he is in right now.
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Linda Z
I haven't seen him in about 20 years, but I liked him when I knew him and enjoyed when he taught.
I could be mistaken, but to my knowledge he was never the head of the Research Dept.; Walter Cummins was.
Why he's still with CES after the spider crap is beyond me. But then I'd have thought he'd have the sense to bail after the Momentus crap. Go figure.
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TheHighWay
I have to chime in here and agree... his Old Testament class was a highlight of my time at Emporia. Especially his OT is 60 seconds (or however short). Got my attention.
I remember that the day the class concluded, the college program folks went roller-skating and he came along. He always seemed like a genuine person in the midst of a lot of wannabe mogs.
And, like others have posted, I wish he would find a way to dis-entangle himself from the CES mess.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I stand corrected...for some reason I thought he was...I guess my mind is "slipping" a bit...
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Linda Z
You're not alone on that front, Groucho. Some days I'm surprised I can remember my own name!
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Son of the Master
I agree wholheartedly. The John I remember always had a passion to teach and impart to others. He was an unselfish teacher void of ego. I am sure he needs healing like the rest of us. He was always kind to me and my researcher wife.
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RottieGrrrl
The one time I met him, during a singles camp for CES Memorial Day of 2000, I thought he was cool too. He really tried to lead people to a personal walk, AND PARTICIPATION.... without his own agenda. I always liked his teaching style too. I'm the type where my mind really wanders if it's a boring teaching, and he always kept my interest.
I hesitate going into this on this board, because I don't want this to turn into a bash thread, but I putting it delicatly, I always thought JAL was a much better writer than teacher. When I bought the original CES tapes, 7years back, Discovering God's Word, JAL did most of the verbal teaching on tape, and man, what can I say...someone needs to lovingly tell that guy his calling aint in verbal teaching. I would skip all his, and dig out Schoenheits, and the others before I could listen to JAL. Not being mean. Or I'm not trying to anyway. It's just I don't think his calling was for verbal teachings.
I always thought if I would take a "Holy Land Tour" I would love it to be with JS
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Son of the Master
John's paper confronting adultery was the big chance for the TWI to repent and get it together but....
I admired him for publicly confronting the top leadership
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RottieGrrrl
I remember when I was first becoming aware of this stuff. I was still kind of going to a wayfer offshoot (bob cardens' group in stepfordville...er....naperville) and I told some female "leader" "gawd i hate that term" about that and she told me that JS went around that the wrong way. He should have kept that quiet. Shhhh! we don't want to know the perverts among us! That was one of my first red flags there was still something terribly wrong with these wayfer groups.
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Son of the Master
There is no wrong way to present a paper on adultery to the body. That jezebel spirit - control by sex.
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excathedra
who cares ?
ok sorry
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GrouchoMarxJr
I'll give credit where credit is due...Shoenheit DID confront twi's top leadership with the adultery paper...when the "top boys" caught wind of it, they fired him and anybody else who read the paper! (John sent it out to numerous leaders of twi)...
He hit a nerve, to put it mildly...and that's when I found out that twi was only concerned about keeping their sins hidden and continuing in them...they went on a slash and burn campaign that gutted many wonderful people...they discarded folks who had given their all...talented, dedicated people...threw them under the bus without a second thought...why?...because they had dared to say that adultery was wrong!...
...and this adultery continued for years afterwards...until it finally took the legal system to get that scum bucket Martindale out of there...and make no mistake about it...Rosie knew what was going on and condoned it...it's in a legal deposition!
Somebody ought to take a flamethrower to that place.
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excathedra
okay whatev
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Son of the Master
I care and this thread was about John
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excathedra
okay what i'm trying to say is
i like a lot of people
should we talk wayfers (are they the standard ?)
do you like dale sides
do you like tom benner
do you like vince finnegan
do you like captain kangaroo ?
i mean, what ?????
i like a lot of people
but are these men of god ?????
are these friends ?????
that's all i'm saying
i'm not trying to put john down
but okay how does he feel about marriage according to the bible ???
i mean i don't care, just asking
since he is divorced
and his paper like BIG DUH
he could have written it 10-15 years before, what ? he decided he could read the bible then ?
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rhino
yeah ... I gotta wonder ... how many brilliant corps really thought adultery was fine?
It had to be kept an inner sanctum secret that it was OK, because no legitimate Bible person would accept that VP's and other's sex outside their marriage was somehow OK. Perhaps the enlightened few that went along were not fooling as many as they tried to pretend they were ...
Good that JS took the stand ... and wild that the twi elite went so ballistic ... but what of those that never really went with the adultery thing ... did JS go along with it for quite some time? Did he (and so many others) just look the other way for many years? I know some of the "wonderful rebellious clergy" ... "partied on Garth" for quite some time.
There is none righteous, no not one ... heh ...
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excathedra
NONE righteous
many hypocrites
i'm in the above
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