This helps me understand lots of things far more clearly; Both about myself and others! I will be forever reading I think.
Belle, I surely do appreciate the efforts and lengths that you go to here at GSC.to help and provide essential information in such a complete way! Thanks!
I Love You((((((((((((((((( Belle))))))))))))))), RG
They treated us like we were stupid. When I started asking questions about TWI doctrine and practice, even before I found WayDale or GSpot, they accused me of going online because, "I couldn't have possibly thought of that on my own." How stupid do they think we are??
Thanks, y'all. I didn't write it, but it sure struck a nerve when I read it. TWI leadership were masters at manipulation and the results have been devastating to so many of us. Here's more that may sound familiar:
Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone.
Types of Emotional Abuse
Abusive Expectations
* The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs.
* It could be a demand for constant attention, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person.
* But no matter how much you give, it's never enough.
* You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don't fulfill all this person's needs.
Aggressing
* Aggressive forms of abuse include name-calling, accusing, blaming, threatening, and ordering. Aggressing behaviors are generally direct and obvious. The one-up position the abuser assumes by attempting to judge or invalidate the recipient undermines the equality and autonomy that are essential to healthy adult relationships. This parent-child pattern of communication (which is common to all forms of verbal abuse) is most obvious when the abuser takes an aggressive stance.
* Aggressive abuse can also take a more indirect form and may even be disguised and "helping." Criticizing, advising, offering solutions, analyzing, proving, and questioning another person may be a sincere attempt to help. In some instances however, these behaviors may be an attempt to belittle, control, or demean rather than help. The underlying judgmental "I know best" tone the abuser takes in these situations is inappropriate and creates unequal footing in peer relationships. This and other types of emotional abuse can lead to what is known as learned helplessness.
Denying
* Denying a person's emotional needs, especially when they feel that need the most, and done with the intent of hurting, punishing or humiliating (Examples)
* The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, "I never said that," "I don't know what you're talking about," etc. You know differently.
* The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity.
* Withholding is another form of denying. Withholding includes refusing to listen, refusing to communicate, and emotionally withdrawing as punishment. This is sometimes called the "silent treatment."
* When the abuser disallows and overrules any viewpoints, perceptions or feelings which differ from their own.
* Denying can be particularly damaging. In addition to lowering self-esteem and creating conflict, the invalidation of reality, feelings, and experiences can eventually lead you to question and mistrust your own perceptions and emotional experience.
* Denying and other forms of emotional abuse can cause you to lose confidence in your most valuable survival tool: your own mind.
Dominating
* Someone wants to control your every action. They have to have their own way, and will resort to threats to get it.
* When you allow someone else to dominate you, you can lose respect for yourself.
Emotional Blackmail
* The other person plays on your fear, guilt, compassion, values, or other "hot buttons" to get what they want.
* This could include threats to end the relationship, totally reject or abandon you, giving you the the "cold shoulder," or using other fear tactics to control you.
Invalidation
* The abuser seeks to distort or undermine the recipient's perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or fails to acknowledge reality. For example, if the recipient tells the person they felt hurt by something the abuser did or said, the abuser might say "You are too sensitive. That shouldn't hurt you." Here is a much more complete description of invalidation
Minimizing
* Minimizing is a less extreme form of denial. When minimizing, the abuser may not deny that a particular event occurred, but they question the recipient's emotional experience or reaction to an event. Statements such as "You're too sensitive," "You're exaggerating," or "You're blowing this out of proportion" all suggest that the recipient's emotions and perceptions are faulty and not be trusted.
* Trivializing, which occurs when the abuser suggests that what you have done or communicated is inconsequential or unimportant, is a more subtle form of minimizing.
Unpredictable Responses
* Drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts. Whenever someone in your life reacts very differently at different times to the same behavior from you, tells you one thing one day and the opposite the next, or likes something you do one day and hates it the next, you are being abused with unpredictable responses.
* This behavior is damaging because it puts you always on edge. You're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you can never know what's expected of you. You must remain hypervigilant, waiting for the other person's next outburst or change of mood.
* An alcoholic or drug abuser is likely to act this way. Living with someone like this is tremendously demanding and anxiety provoking, causing the abused person to feel constantly frightened, unsettled and off balance.
Verbal Assaults
* Berating, belittling, criticizing, name calling, screaming, threatening
* Excessive blaming, and using sarcasm and humiliation.
* Blowing your flaws out of proportion and making fun of you in front of others. Over time, this type of abuse erodes your sense of self confidence and self-worth.
SOME of us were abused in this manner..... in the 90's it was most of us. THIS is why, like Eyes mentioned in her 1986 Lead thread, we didn't speak up even when we knew deep down we were right. This is why, even now, so many of us struggle with guilt for not being good enough, for being kicked out, for leaving even when we knew it was right. THIS is why, even now, so many people go to great leaps of logic to justify the behavior of TWI leadership.
Excellent post. It's kind of scary as you read along and EVERYTHING those books say are exactly like how it was while in TWI. It's a scary reality, and yet freeing at the same time.
Thanks, y'all. I didn't write it, but it sure struck a nerve when I read it. TWI leadership were masters at manipulation and the results have been devastating to so many of us. Here's more that may sound familiar:
Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone.
Types of Emotional Abuse
Abusive Expectations
* The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs.
* It could be a demand for constant attention, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person.
* But no matter how much you give, it's never enough.
* You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don't fulfill all this person's needs.
Aggressing
* Aggressive forms of abuse include name-calling, accusing, blaming, threatening, and ordering. Aggressing behaviors are generally direct and obvious. The one-up position the abuser assumes by attempting to judge or invalidate the recipient undermines the equality and autonomy that are essential to healthy adult relationships. This parent-child pattern of communication (which is common to all forms of verbal abuse) is most obvious when the abuser takes an aggressive stance.
* Aggressive abuse can also take a more indirect form and may even be disguised and "helping." Criticizing, advising, offering solutions, analyzing, proving, and questioning another person may be a sincere attempt to help. In some instances however, these behaviors may be an attempt to belittle, control, or demean rather than help. The underlying judgmental "I know best" tone the abuser takes in these situations is inappropriate and creates unequal footing in peer relationships. This and other types of emotional abuse can lead to what is known as learned helplessness.
Denying
* Denying a person's emotional needs, especially when they feel that need the most, and done with the intent of hurting, punishing or humiliating (Examples)
* The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, "I never said that," "I don't know what you're talking about," etc. You know differently.
* The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity.
* Withholding is another form of denying. Withholding includes refusing to listen, refusing to communicate, and emotionally withdrawing as punishment. This is sometimes called the "silent treatment."
* When the abuser disallows and overrules any viewpoints, perceptions or feelings which differ from their own.
* Denying can be particularly damaging. In addition to lowering self-esteem and creating conflict, the invalidation of reality, feelings, and experiences can eventually lead you to question and mistrust your own perceptions and emotional experience.
* Denying and other forms of emotional abuse can cause you to lose confidence in your most valuable survival tool: your own mind.
Dominating
* Someone wants to control your every action. They have to have their own way, and will resort to threats to get it.
* When you allow someone else to dominate you, you can lose respect for yourself.
Emotional Blackmail
* The other person plays on your fear, guilt, compassion, values, or other "hot buttons" to get what they want.
* This could include threats to end the relationship, totally reject or abandon you, giving you the the "cold shoulder," or using other fear tactics to control you.
Invalidation
* The abuser seeks to distort or undermine the recipient's perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or fails to acknowledge reality. For example, if the recipient tells the person they felt hurt by something the abuser did or said, the abuser might say "You are too sensitive. That shouldn't hurt you." Here is a much more complete description of invalidation
Minimizing
* Minimizing is a less extreme form of denial. When minimizing, the abuser may not deny that a particular event occurred, but they question the recipient's emotional experience or reaction to an event. Statements such as "You're too sensitive," "You're exaggerating," or "You're blowing this out of proportion" all suggest that the recipient's emotions and perceptions are faulty and not be trusted.
* Trivializing, which occurs when the abuser suggests that what you have done or communicated is inconsequential or unimportant, is a more subtle form of minimizing.
Unpredictable Responses
* Drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts. Whenever someone in your life reacts very differently at different times to the same behavior from you, tells you one thing one day and the opposite the next, or likes something you do one day and hates it the next, you are being abused with unpredictable responses.
* This behavior is damaging because it puts you always on edge. You're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you can never know what's expected of you. You must remain hypervigilant, waiting for the other person's next outburst or change of mood.
* An alcoholic or drug abuser is likely to act this way. Living with someone like this is tremendously demanding and anxiety provoking, causing the abused person to feel constantly frightened, unsettled and off balance.
Verbal Assaults
* Berating, belittling, criticizing, name calling, screaming, threatening
* Excessive blaming, and using sarcasm and humiliation.
* Blowing your flaws out of proportion and making fun of you in front of others. Over time, this type of abuse erodes your sense of self confidence and self-worth.
SOME of us were abused in this manner..... in the 90's it was most of us. THIS is why, like Eyes mentioned in her 1986 Lead thread, we didn't speak up even when we knew deep down we were right. This is why, even now, so many of us struggle with guilt for not being good enough, for being kicked out, for leaving even when we knew it was right. THIS is why, even now, so many people go to great leaps of logic to justify the behavior of TWI leadership.
SOME of us were abused in this manner..... in the 90's it was most of us. THIS is why, like Eyes mentioned in her 1986 Lead thread, we didn't speak up even when we knew deep down we were right. This is why, even now, so many of us struggle with guilt for not being good enough, for being kicked out, for leaving even when we knew it was right. THIS is why, even now, so many people go to great leaps of logic to justify the behavior of TWI leadership.[/color]
And this is why some of us after being kicked out of the Corps or TWI went on to abusive relationships. Because it is where we felt comfortable and where we thought we belonged.
As usual Belle you have provided us with a comprehensive bit of information to chew on, Thank you.
Belle thank you! I read eyes posts. This explains a lot to me. I was never part of the way but there was an person who tried to recurite me into TWI after I lost a loved one and some of the tactics were used on me. But I never fell for it.
Men may disagree with this, but women actually got a double whammy because we were to submit in everything. To this day (after 7 yrs) I still find myself acquiescing to something my husband wants me to do just because he wants me to. As of the last 2 mos. I have been very focused on looking at things as an individual person and recognizing when I am doing something because I let myself get pushed into something deep down I felt was not right. No matter how minor. And just mindlessly do it just because I was told to. To recognize I am an adult and don’t need someone to tell me what to do or how to do it. This is harder to do than it sounds.
On the other hand, men got much more blame. They were held responsible for everything that went on under their roof, whether it was reasonable or could be helped or not.
No boundaries in twi. You couldn’t EVER say no. There was no place where they stopped and you began. They didn’t stop and you never began.
This to me is the most important part of recovery. Much more important than the doctrinal issues.
Who would expect to have a fulfilling, exciting life living with a servant?!?! Not me, that's for sure. My wife is independent, outspoken and has different opinions on many subjects. And, yes, that leads to some pretty heated discussions, BUT, she is her own person. And she expects me to be my own person. We respect each others' individuality, and in fact, that's in large part what keeps the "spark" alive. TWI's practices and teachings repressed that spark of life...the individual's uniqueness!!
That individual uniqueness is what makes us so very precious to God. What I can't do for Him, someone else can. The person I can't help, someone else can. That's the Body. That's the Church. Each of us has traits and abilities that can interact with others to make God's love living and real. But, with all that uniqueness, the one common bond that unites us is that love, God's love. Why wouldn't I want that same kind of relationship in a marriage? Why wouldn't I yearn for that to be the way my brothers and sisters in Christ live?
vp never got that part right. He never saw the real beauty of accepting people for who they were in Christ and helping them grow. And I think that was because he never accepted Jesus Christ as the Head of the Body of Christ. His version of the love of God was to enforce conformity and obedience. He tried to control us into walking for God...like little robots. He could never let go of the reins and allow Christ to direct his people. He really blew his ministry because of this. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he would demand the same practices of married couples, should it?
Not only did I get abused for asking questions, I got the "face melt".
They had a total meltdown if you questioned anything leadership did. It was a crock of bs. Total intimidation to make us submit to their dumb decisions to do whatever they wanted to.
Danny-I was at Pifl 77. I agree that was a set up. If it wouldn't have been that camera man he would have picked on someone else. What an ego. He used to do that with the corps all the time. Just trying to establish his mog domination.
I doubt the cameraman knew it was coming, waysider, just that VPW did. He got his kicks showing us how "tapped in" he was, how hard working he was, and how spiritual detail-oriented he was.
Now 'scuse me while I hurl...
Eyesopen, you said
And this is why some of us after being kicked out of the Corps or TWI went on to abusive relationships. Because it is where we felt comfortable and where we thought we belonged.
Rather, we didn't know red flags when we saw them. I for one never felt I belonged with an abuser, nor was I ever comfortable there. But my ability to be taken advantage of more than once points to a tremendous ability to overlook my gut feelings.
Wierwille wanted to blame us women for that, too. If we stayed with an abuser, we had a spirit of masochism.
Talk about dam*ed if ya do, and dam*ed if ya don't!
This information really hit home for me because - I know this is going to be hard to believe - I'm typically a very strong, outspoken person with a tendency to be stubborn. It's not typical of me to be taken advantage of or to allow others to control me - especially not every aspect of my life.
It bothers me, still, that I just gave them control lock, stock & barrel over my life. I got to the point where I was pretty much helpless in every area of my life. I mean in stupid simple things. I'd list examples, but it's just too darn embarrassing. I couldn't make a decision if my life depended on it.
What gets me is that some of the folks knew what was going on - had to know the culture was emotionally, psychologically and spiritually unhealthy and did NOTHING to stop it. Dottie Moynihan has a degree in psychology, no? She counseled women who were raped - knew that was going on and did NOTHING. She had to have recognized the dynamics of the organization. *shaking my head*
The control of information - not allowing us to think for ourselves.... no wonder we eventually got to where we couldn't think for ourselves. Remembering the letters sent to people at HQ that contained Chris Jordan's study on debt - IF TWI were a healthy environment they would have welcomed the discussion, debate and differing viewpoints - the recipients wouldn't have been scared to even read the letters - the leadership wouldn't have gone to great lengths to track down the source of this contraband information.
I find it very unlikely that anyone left in TWI has a healthy mental state of being. Some are obviously more scarred than others, but nobody is completely unharmed from this kind of abuse.
Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone.
The only thing I would add to this:
They sometimes also stay in relationships that they PERCEIVE as being abusive. Whether the abuse is there or not, the effect is the same, and that in itself isn't exactly healthy.
I think a lot of the problem is the belief system itself, that if you made an agreement, you have to keep it right or wrong. That was certainly drummed into us, "If thou vowest a vow.." you stay with it until you're dead if need be. I think deliberate abuse of any kind invalidates the agreement.
Types of Emotional Abuse
Abusive Expectations
* The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs.
* It could be a demand for constant attention, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person.
* But no matter how much you give, it's never enough.
The troubling part of this is so much of it is cultural, generations of learned behavior. Some people think it is "normal". It is a trap, and I've seen some people literally wear themselves out emotionally and physically trying to keep up with the pace. I think that a lot of people were not consciously aware of the demands, and now find it increasingly difficult to maintain them, along with the increasing demands of society and work. Something has to give somewhere..
* You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don't fulfill all this person's needs.
I think this is clearly where it crosses the line.
Aggressing
* Aggressive forms of abuse include name-calling, accusing, blaming, threatening, and ordering. Aggressing behaviors are generally direct and obvious. The one-up position the abuser assumes by attempting to judge or invalidate the recipient undermines the equality and autonomy that are essential to healthy adult relationships. This parent-child pattern of communication (which is common to all forms of verbal abuse) is most obvious when the abuser takes an aggressive stance.
* Aggressive abuse can also take a more indirect form and may even be disguised and "helping." Criticizing, advising, offering solutions, analyzing, proving, and questioning another person may be a sincere attempt to help. In some instanceshowever, these behaviors may be an attempt to belittle, control, or demean rather than help. The underlying judgmental "I know best" tone the abuser takes in these situations is inappropriate and creates unequal footing in peer relationships. This and other types of emotional abuse can lead to what is known as learned helplessness.
I think this is perhaps the most damaging form of abuse, where a person forms an association between abuse and "niceness".
They've learned not to reach out to a hand offering real help.
Denying
* Denying a person's emotional needs, especially when they feel that need the most, and done with the intent of hurting, punishing or humiliating (Examples)
In psychological terms, this is an element of operant conditioning.
* The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, "I never said that," "I don't know what you're talking about," etc. You know differently.
This was the mark of "leadership". They wouldn't admit it even if you had their tit in a vise..
* The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity.
"You are being influenced by da DEBIL.."
* Withholding is another form of denying. Withholding includes refusing to listen, refusing to communicate, and emotionally withdrawing as punishment. This is sometimes called the "silent treatment."
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RainbowsGirl
Thank You Dear Belle,
This helps me understand lots of things far more clearly; Both about myself and others! I will be forever reading I think.
I Love You((((((((((((((((( Belle))))))))))))))), RG
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dmiller
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Listener
YES!!!! Great post!!
Thanks, Belle.
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Belle
Thanks, y'all. I didn't write it, but it sure struck a nerve when I read it. TWI leadership were masters at manipulation and the results have been devastating to so many of us. Here's more that may sound familiar:
Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone.
Types of Emotional Abuse
Abusive Expectations
* The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs.
* It could be a demand for constant attention, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person.
* But no matter how much you give, it's never enough.
* You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don't fulfill all this person's needs.
Aggressing
* Aggressive forms of abuse include name-calling, accusing, blaming, threatening, and ordering. Aggressing behaviors are generally direct and obvious. The one-up position the abuser assumes by attempting to judge or invalidate the recipient undermines the equality and autonomy that are essential to healthy adult relationships. This parent-child pattern of communication (which is common to all forms of verbal abuse) is most obvious when the abuser takes an aggressive stance.
* Aggressive abuse can also take a more indirect form and may even be disguised and "helping." Criticizing, advising, offering solutions, analyzing, proving, and questioning another person may be a sincere attempt to help. In some instances however, these behaviors may be an attempt to belittle, control, or demean rather than help. The underlying judgmental "I know best" tone the abuser takes in these situations is inappropriate and creates unequal footing in peer relationships. This and other types of emotional abuse can lead to what is known as learned helplessness.
Denying
* Denying a person's emotional needs, especially when they feel that need the most, and done with the intent of hurting, punishing or humiliating (Examples)
* The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, "I never said that," "I don't know what you're talking about," etc. You know differently.
* The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity.
* Withholding is another form of denying. Withholding includes refusing to listen, refusing to communicate, and emotionally withdrawing as punishment. This is sometimes called the "silent treatment."
* When the abuser disallows and overrules any viewpoints, perceptions or feelings which differ from their own.
* Denying can be particularly damaging. In addition to lowering self-esteem and creating conflict, the invalidation of reality, feelings, and experiences can eventually lead you to question and mistrust your own perceptions and emotional experience.
* Denying and other forms of emotional abuse can cause you to lose confidence in your most valuable survival tool: your own mind.
Dominating
* Someone wants to control your every action. They have to have their own way, and will resort to threats to get it.
* When you allow someone else to dominate you, you can lose respect for yourself.
Emotional Blackmail
* The other person plays on your fear, guilt, compassion, values, or other "hot buttons" to get what they want.
* This could include threats to end the relationship, totally reject or abandon you, giving you the the "cold shoulder," or using other fear tactics to control you.
Invalidation
* The abuser seeks to distort or undermine the recipient's perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or fails to acknowledge reality. For example, if the recipient tells the person they felt hurt by something the abuser did or said, the abuser might say "You are too sensitive. That shouldn't hurt you." Here is a much more complete description of invalidation
Minimizing
* Minimizing is a less extreme form of denial. When minimizing, the abuser may not deny that a particular event occurred, but they question the recipient's emotional experience or reaction to an event. Statements such as "You're too sensitive," "You're exaggerating," or "You're blowing this out of proportion" all suggest that the recipient's emotions and perceptions are faulty and not be trusted.
* Trivializing, which occurs when the abuser suggests that what you have done or communicated is inconsequential or unimportant, is a more subtle form of minimizing.
Unpredictable Responses
* Drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts. Whenever someone in your life reacts very differently at different times to the same behavior from you, tells you one thing one day and the opposite the next, or likes something you do one day and hates it the next, you are being abused with unpredictable responses.
* This behavior is damaging because it puts you always on edge. You're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you can never know what's expected of you. You must remain hypervigilant, waiting for the other person's next outburst or change of mood.
* An alcoholic or drug abuser is likely to act this way. Living with someone like this is tremendously demanding and anxiety provoking, causing the abused person to feel constantly frightened, unsettled and off balance.
Verbal Assaults
* Berating, belittling, criticizing, name calling, screaming, threatening
* Excessive blaming, and using sarcasm and humiliation.
* Blowing your flaws out of proportion and making fun of you in front of others. Over time, this type of abuse erodes your sense of self confidence and self-worth.
SOME of us were abused in this manner..... in the 90's it was most of us. THIS is why, like Eyes mentioned in her 1986 Lead thread, we didn't speak up even when we knew deep down we were right. This is why, even now, so many of us struggle with guilt for not being good enough, for being kicked out, for leaving even when we knew it was right. THIS is why, even now, so many people go to great leaps of logic to justify the behavior of TWI leadership.
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washingtonweather
I believe emotional blackmail was prevalent since the mid seventies...Word over the USA was a biggie..."oh my God -- we were gonna loose our country"
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Lone Wolf McQuade
Belle,
Excellent post. It's kind of scary as you read along and EVERYTHING those books say are exactly like how it was while in TWI. It's a scary reality, and yet freeing at the same time.
Thank you for this post Belle.
Lone Wolf McQuade
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waysider
Thanks, Belle
I had no idea you and I work at the same company.
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George Aar
These tactics work equally well for the Ultimate Authority Figure, the Almighty Hisself (especially #5).
Yeah, I know, I'm not 'sposed to mention it...
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Bolshevik
Come on Geo. Explain.
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WordWolf
I'll save some time.
He's referring to the "militant atheist" position that all religious belief is grounded in delusion and
deception, whether self-deception or deception of other, and that society would be
better served by eliminating all religion.
It's different from what we were discussing on the rest of the thread,
but you did ask.
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Bolshevik
I did ask and thank you.
I apologize if I contributed to any derailing.
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Bolshevik
To continue, Belle said:
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Eyesopen
And this is why some of us after being kicked out of the Corps or TWI went on to abusive relationships. Because it is where we felt comfortable and where we thought we belonged.
As usual Belle you have provided us with a comprehensive bit of information to chew on, Thank you.
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nyunknown
Belle thank you! I read eyes posts. This explains a lot to me. I was never part of the way but there was an person who tried to recurite me into TWI after I lost a loved one and some of the tactics were used on me. But I never fell for it.
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Danny
Thanks Belle
Do anyone of you remember PFAL 77 what vic did to the camera
person. That was whole sale big time step in controlling everone there.
From then own he set up the steps to be marked as the MOG.
And if you messed up you whole life would be flushed in front of thousands.
Not that the person even messed up.
I think vp planned the whole thing.
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another spot
Men may disagree with this, but women actually got a double whammy because we were to submit in everything. To this day (after 7 yrs) I still find myself acquiescing to something my husband wants me to do just because he wants me to. As of the last 2 mos. I have been very focused on looking at things as an individual person and recognizing when I am doing something because I let myself get pushed into something deep down I felt was not right. No matter how minor. And just mindlessly do it just because I was told to. To recognize I am an adult and don’t need someone to tell me what to do or how to do it. This is harder to do than it sounds.
On the other hand, men got much more blame. They were held responsible for everything that went on under their roof, whether it was reasonable or could be helped or not.
No boundaries in twi. You couldn’t EVER say no. There was no place where they stopped and you began. They didn’t stop and you never began.
This to me is the most important part of recovery. Much more important than the doctrinal issues.
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Listener
Who would expect to have a fulfilling, exciting life living with a servant?!?! Not me, that's for sure. My wife is independent, outspoken and has different opinions on many subjects. And, yes, that leads to some pretty heated discussions, BUT, she is her own person. And she expects me to be my own person. We respect each others' individuality, and in fact, that's in large part what keeps the "spark" alive. TWI's practices and teachings repressed that spark of life...the individual's uniqueness!!
That individual uniqueness is what makes us so very precious to God. What I can't do for Him, someone else can. The person I can't help, someone else can. That's the Body. That's the Church. Each of us has traits and abilities that can interact with others to make God's love living and real. But, with all that uniqueness, the one common bond that unites us is that love, God's love. Why wouldn't I want that same kind of relationship in a marriage? Why wouldn't I yearn for that to be the way my brothers and sisters in Christ live?
vp never got that part right. He never saw the real beauty of accepting people for who they were in Christ and helping them grow. And I think that was because he never accepted Jesus Christ as the Head of the Body of Christ. His version of the love of God was to enforce conformity and obedience. He tried to control us into walking for God...like little robots. He could never let go of the reins and allow Christ to direct his people. He really blew his ministry because of this. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he would demand the same practices of married couples, should it?
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polar bear
Great post Belle-
Not only did I get abused for asking questions, I got the "face melt".
They had a total meltdown if you questioned anything leadership did. It was a crock of bs. Total intimidation to make us submit to their dumb decisions to do whatever they wanted to.
Danny-I was at Pifl 77. I agree that was a set up. If it wouldn't have been that camera man he would have picked on someone else. What an ego. He used to do that with the corps all the time. Just trying to establish his mog domination.
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waysider
WHAT!!!!
A shill in a preacher's audience?!!!!
Please say it ain't so.
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shazdancer
I doubt the cameraman knew it was coming, waysider, just that VPW did. He got his kicks showing us how "tapped in" he was, how hard working he was, and how spiritual detail-oriented he was.
Now 'scuse me while I hurl...
Eyesopen, you said
Rather, we didn't know red flags when we saw them. I for one never felt I belonged with an abuser, nor was I ever comfortable there. But my ability to be taken advantage of more than once points to a tremendous ability to overlook my gut feelings.Wierwille wanted to blame us women for that, too. If we stayed with an abuser, we had a spirit of masochism.
Talk about dam*ed if ya do, and dam*ed if ya don't!
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TheHighWay
Listener, great post! It really sums up the attitudes we were taught.
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WordWolf
Let's face it-
vpw set out, from the beginning, to be obyed without question, and to never have disagreements.
That's why he dissolved the Board of Directors and set up a trio that he could control.
That's why he put forth he was the sole Christian in 2000 years to hear the voice of God and
teach God's Word like it hadn't been known in that time-while taking all his teachings from
material already in existence.
That's why the corps was set up to FOLLOW ORDERS WITHOUT QUESTION NO MATTER WHAT.
(We're still hearing horror stories about that.)
That's why he was "The Teacher"- even long before he ever taught a pfal/rthst class.
That's why "the suggestion of a general is tantamount to a command."
etc. etc.
vpw wanted people who were-in terms of judgement and free will- HELPLESS.
That way, he could tell them what to believe and what to do-
and they'd believe it and do it.
Was he successful?
There's still people believing everything he said and he's been dead for 20 years.
How's that for a successful salesman and conman?
To work on staff was to be subject to his rants when he felt like ranting-without warning,
without pattern and without good cause,
and to be paid less than minimum wage AND not contribute to a Social Security fund,
thus ensuring you would NEED to "work until you die."
(That's only been corrected for the last year or two.)
To be a corps grad was to follow any orders that came down,
to work on your own, send in 10% of your salary,
to take 2 weeks off work, travel on your own money to hq,
then spend 2 weeks of manual labour setting up and putting on the ROA-
or earn vpw's wrath for having a life.
To be a corps student was to spend 4 years paying tuition, live in a walk-in closet,
eat disgusting food I've never HEARD of because it's cheap,
perform manual labour while paying for the privilege,
and risk life and limb hitchhiking to sell pfal
or climb mountains under unsafe directions and unsafe instructors.
How many people do you know came out of the way corps looking malnourished
and wearing cast-off clothing and second-hand suits?
For which they paid tuition for....
To be a wow was to pay them for the privilege of going wow,
be sent somewhere with no say on the location,
travel on your own expense (carpooling with wows in cars),
work fulltime and sell pfal,
run pfal classes on your own time and at your own expense,
then return at the end at your own expense,
having brought in pfal class tuitions and new people expected to pay 10%
of their salaries,
for which you received a lapel pin.
To be none of the above was to be told what to do by those who WERE
in the above categories (except wows), and to be told to give 10% of your
income and believe whatever vpw said-
and encourage others to do the same.
All levels of involvement in twi were constructed to benefit vpw,
accomplish his goals, and to do whatever he said and soak up whatever punishment
he sought to dish out.
And those closest to him were hardly immune to this-
cg admitted in pop that he (cg) and ha put up with a lot of abuse
from vpw.
A read-thru of "vp and me" shows lcm put up with abuse from vpw when they
were in contact.
God only knows what Mrs W lived through.
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Belle
This information really hit home for me because - I know this is going to be hard to believe - I'm typically a very strong, outspoken person with a tendency to be stubborn. It's not typical of me to be taken advantage of or to allow others to control me - especially not every aspect of my life.
It bothers me, still, that I just gave them control lock, stock & barrel over my life. I got to the point where I was pretty much helpless in every area of my life. I mean in stupid simple things. I'd list examples, but it's just too darn embarrassing. I couldn't make a decision if my life depended on it.
What gets me is that some of the folks knew what was going on - had to know the culture was emotionally, psychologically and spiritually unhealthy and did NOTHING to stop it. Dottie Moynihan has a degree in psychology, no? She counseled women who were raped - knew that was going on and did NOTHING. She had to have recognized the dynamics of the organization. *shaking my head*
The control of information - not allowing us to think for ourselves.... no wonder we eventually got to where we couldn't think for ourselves. Remembering the letters sent to people at HQ that contained Chris Jordan's study on debt - IF TWI were a healthy environment they would have welcomed the discussion, debate and differing viewpoints - the recipients wouldn't have been scared to even read the letters - the leadership wouldn't have gone to great lengths to track down the source of this contraband information.
I find it very unlikely that anyone left in TWI has a healthy mental state of being. Some are obviously more scarred than others, but nobody is completely unharmed from this kind of abuse.
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Ham
They sometimes also stay in relationships that they PERCEIVE as being abusive. Whether the abuse is there or not, the effect is the same, and that in itself isn't exactly healthy.
I think a lot of the problem is the belief system itself, that if you made an agreement, you have to keep it right or wrong. That was certainly drummed into us, "If thou vowest a vow.." you stay with it until you're dead if need be. I think deliberate abuse of any kind invalidates the agreement.
The troubling part of this is so much of it is cultural, generations of learned behavior. Some people think it is "normal". It is a trap, and I've seen some people literally wear themselves out emotionally and physically trying to keep up with the pace. I think that a lot of people were not consciously aware of the demands, and now find it increasingly difficult to maintain them, along with the increasing demands of society and work. Something has to give somewhere..I think this is clearly where it crosses the line.I think this is perhaps the most damaging form of abuse, where a person forms an association between abuse and "niceness".
They've learned not to reach out to a hand offering real help.
In psychological terms, this is an element of operant conditioning.This was the mark of "leadership". They wouldn't admit it even if you had their tit in a vise.."You are being influenced by da DEBIL.."Same use of operant conditioning.
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