Close the borders. We have too many jerk-offs here now,
without allowing more coming in to fugg up *life as we know it*.
Assuming the article is true (and it may or may not be),
we don't need extraa$$holes mandating THEIR wishes upon US (Read --- U.S.),
by firing guns in a college setting (or anywhere else for that matter).
Be courteous to all but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence; true friendship is a plant of slow growth, and must undergo and withstand the shocks of adversity before it is entitled to appellation.
Whether the individual was a foreign national or not is irrelevant.
I am all in favor of controlling immigration and have expressed myself to the nth degree reflecting that; but there are valid reasons for controlling immigration and there are not. This is not one of them.
Close the borders. We have too many jerk-offs here now,
without allowing more coming in to fugg up *life as we know it*.
Assuming the article is true (and it may or may not be),
we don't need extraa$$holes mandating THEIR wishes upon US (Read --- U.S.),
by firing guns in a college setting (or anywhere else for that matter).
Probably 99.999% of those jerk-offs screwing our country up are born in the U.S.A.
Besides, it's not like China is known for crazies coming here and shooting up our stuff. They're killing us by serving us General Tso's Chicken and selling us useless plastic trinkets through Walmart.
In any case, whether he was an immigrant, legal or on an expired visa, or a U.S. citizen, it doesn't matter. What he did was horrific, and we can blame nobody but him for this. There are certainly things that could have been done differently that may have resulted in fewer to no deaths, but he was the only one that really knew what was going to happen.
Close the borders. We have too many jerk-offs here now,
without allowing more coming in to fugg up *life as we know it*.
Assuming the article is true (and it may or may not be),
we don't need extraa$$holes mandating THEIR wishes upon US (Read --- U.S.),
by firing guns in a college setting (or anywhere else for that matter).
Probably 99.999% of those jerk-offs screwing our country up are born in the U.S.A.
Besides, it's not like China is known for crazies coming here and shooting up our stuff. They're killing us by serving us General Tso's Chicken and selling us useless plastic trinkets through Walmart.
In any case, whether he was an immigrant, legal or on an expired visa, or a U.S. citizen, it doesn't matter. What he did was horrific, and we can blame nobody but him for this. There are certainly things that could have been done differently that may have resulted in fewer to no deaths, but he was the only one that really knew what was going to happen.
In any case, whether he was an immigrant, legal or on an expired visa, or a U.S. citizen, it doesn't matter. What he did was horrific, and we can blame nobody but him for this. There are certainly things that could have been done differently that may have resulted in fewer to no deaths, but he was the only one that really knew what was going to happen.
This man apparently did NOT acquire the weapons LEGALLY. So, there's AT LEAST one other party that must share some responsibility, as the crimes committed in illegally conveying those weapons makes the person, at minimum, an accessory BEFORE the fact... and depending on Virginia state law, may make the weapons provider also legally responsible for felony murder.
I don't care if he came from Pluto he shouldn't have been here if he didn't have legal papers to be. And these are two different issues for me even though I have a STRONG voice against our current immigration policies. I voiced what I did about this incident because it would be used and yes abused in regards to the HOT subject of immigration. And by this forum alone I would say that was a valid point.
My prayers goes out to the victumes of this horrible tradegy and there familes. This is so bizzare two where killed around 7am was was not the campus locked down?This madman started his killing spree again two hours later? what where the campus police doing? Why was not the national guard call in ,the fbi, the swat teams called in? what was mayor the governered call the national guard and homeland serurity? True it is a large campus but have we forgotton sept 11 and collbine tradegy? George santana once said those who do not know there history are cursed to repeat it!
How do we avoid this type of thing in the future?...we can't...not without locking down every university in the country and installing high security metal detectors, etc and making them like prisons..it's the same dilema that we consider to avoid terrorist attacks.
It's one of the negative consequences that we must endure in order to remain free.
My prayers are with the families of those victims.
Just in case I was not read correctly I wanted to repeat that I do not believe this needs to turn into an illegals debate but I knew it would. I am not so blind as to know it could have been anyone and I don't want anyone to think I am lessoning the sting of it by taking it into a political realm.
Well, y'all know I'm quick to defend any law enforcement office because I know what they go through and how hard they try to protect the public - even from themselves. It just ....es me off to no end to see them second guessing the VT Police. Angry
They did the best they could with the information they had. How DARE the media roast them and stir up controversy where there is none?? Even the students are saying that they thought the police did the best they could, but with the raw emotion and vulnerability of those kids right now, the media is just feeding on contorting their memory and reason. Did I say it ....es me off?? Angry
I turned to CNN or Fox or some other station last night to see if there were any updates and Bill O'Reilly was on. What a fargin' foot! I wanted to shoot him through the tv. Bastard!!
Kids are dead! Professors are dead! dang happens - horrible, awful, tragic dang happens and, too many times, there's just nothing that could have been done to stop it.
I hate to be pedantic, but I'm tired of hearing the media constantly say that this is the worst shooting in U.S. history. It is the worst school shooting in more than 50 years, but not the worst shooting in our history.
I would argue that the U.S. Civil War had far worse casualties. The battle of Gettysburg resulted in about 200k Americans (counting casualties of the firefight on both sides and ignoring deaths by disease) being killed in battle.
I can't keep up on stuff as I'm still training my replacement but it is such a tragedy and I did not want to add to the hype myself. It was a horror of which adds fear to our society and takes innocence away even further. The world is not getting any nicer and I suspect never will.
I want to bring up the Professor of German who locked and blocked the door until he was killed allowing many of his students to jump out a window.
Lets remember the students that were only there to learn.
Professor Librescu: "a wonderful man, a survivor,
and a hero" one student wrote
Heroic professor among Virginia Tech dead
A 76-year-old Romanian lecturer was hailed a hero after blocking his classroom door long enough for many of his students to escape the Virginia Tech gunman, before being shot dead.
Liviu Librescu pressed himself against the door of the classroom while shots were fired in the corridor and surrounding rooms. He stood firm, attempting to barricade the door, while his students clambered out of the windows.
I have a lot of respect for law enforcement they put themselves in harms way to protect us. It is quite clear there was a terrible breach of security. It true you cannot prevent every tradegy.This madman is soley resopisibly for what happen.It seem to me that this president
Charles steger should be brought on charges how can he defend sending e-mails and delaying people on campus that there was a problem. Has he ever head of a blowhorn?
I was in New york when sept 11 occoured the mayor and the goveneror did not waste time.If I was in charge of the campus and I heard two people where killed I would me concerned about the safety of the students and the 11000 people coming in. With a 2 hour gap? Espically If I knew that this guman was not caught. They dont hold fire drills anymore? Pardon me for venting I feel for those families who lost ther loved ones.
The early morning murders appeared to the police to be a domestic issue and, not unlike a man killing his girlfriend and a neighbor in a neighborhood or apartment complex, the police considered it to be an isolated event. It looked like an isolated event and, I suppose, if the media had been alerted to that and started their broadcast at 8am, they would have portrayed it as such. A neighborhood would not be evacuated because of it.
Where's the killer? They wouldn't want to know because of worry that he would kill someone else, much less a bunch of other people. It would be to catch him - period - for the crime he committed. It looked from all accounts, like a mad, upset, jilted lover who killed his intended target and the poor resident assistant who tried to protect her and then went on his way.
They still have NOT connected the two shootings. For all we know, it could be a horrible coincidence that a jilted lover shot his intended victim and innocent bystander on the same day that some friggin' lunatic went ballistic at another part of campus. You don't think the cops talked to witnesses and other residents in the hall when the shooting happened? You don't think they set about trying to identify & catch the killer right then? You don't think they thought through every scenario and tried to decide the best course of action?
Furthermore, I suspect that many students would have read the e-mail and continued on with their daily routines, no matter what time the e-mail came out. In fact, many students did just that anyway. They got the e-mail, read it and then went on to class like normal. *shrug* Again, it did not appear that there was any danger or anything to be concerned about.
There's a lot more to a "lock down" than the general population can fathom. That wasn't enough evidence to warrant a lock-down and, if they had implemented a lock down, it still would have taken a long time to get everyone in place and still would not have stopped that murderer. Kids were walking across campus, kids were scattered all over the place - how're you going to communicate instantly to 26,000+ people spread out over many, many acres, buildings and properties? You can't do it. AND, trying to do it could cause more mayhem and chaos, putting more lives in danger than originally could/would have been.
Frustrating as it is - the police did everything they knew to do and everything the evidence led them to do. It's just a tragedy and blaming them doesn't change the fact that too many lives were destroyed and forever changed.
It's not the fault of the police.
This is my little rant - not to anyone in particular, just how friggin' frustrated I get when the police are blamed for doing their job to the best of their ability:
People have NO IDEA the hours upon hours of training law enforcement goes through. They have NO IDEA the stress and pressure put on them to protect lives - even the lives of idiots doing stupid stuff that could get themselves killed. They have NO IDEA what it's like having so many rules to follow when the bad guys don't have any rules. The police get blamed for not being perfect and it ....es me off to no end.
People should know what it's like putting your life on the line every freaking day! People should know what it's like pulling over cars for speeding, running red lights, etc many times a day not knowing if this is "the one" that could be the lunatic who tries to kill you. People should know what it's like getting blamed every time a bad guy gets away with something. People should know what it's like facing off with a guy who's got a gun knowing that if you a) shoot the em effer & kill him you're going to be persecuted for not waiting long enough to give the guy a chance to surrender b) don't shoot him in time and he kills someone, including yourself, you're going to be persecuted for not shooting quick enough to protect lives, including your own. Bad guys don't have any rules - law enforcement has miles upon miles of red tape and rules. They're d@mned if they do ~ d@mned if they don't. It's a wonder anyone wants to be in law enforcement these days.
I wish everyone had to go through 1/1 billionth of the guilt, stress and fear that an officer does on a daily basis. THEN, people might not be so quick to judge when things like this happen. They aren't God - they're human - humans with an extraordinary sense of duty and responsibility that tears them up when they feel they've let the public down. Could no one else tell that the VT chief was near tears every time he was interviewed? You think those men and women on the police forces involved slept a wink last night? You think they aren't already beating themselves up for something that was completely beyond their control and scope of knowledge to be able to prevent?
They still have NOT connected the two shootings. For all we know, it could be a horrible coincidence that a jilted lover shot his intended victim and innocent bystander on the same day that some friggin' lunatic went ballistic at another part of campus.
Actually. they've determined that the same gun was used in both incidents. That doesn't detract from the rest of your post, but I wanted to pass on the additional information.
First of all, it sells copy therefore advertising, it gives the talking buffoons something to philosophize about, it makes them feel important in giving the impression that their "journalistic investigations" outweigh those of police officials and it titillates liberals.
I used to take pictures for a newspaper back in the archaic days of film and darkrooms. I sat in the donut shops with local police many times and when I wasn't, I had my scanner and Nikon at the ready all the time.
I saw a lot of stuff and can tell you that cops earn their keep. I only saw and recorded stuff...they LIVE it and take a great deal of heat for much of it, even though they shouldn't have to.
I understand why so many find solace in bottles.
I'm with you 100% on this'un, Belle.
PMosh...
I wasn't aware that Gettysburg qualified as a school shooting. I don't exactly get your point.
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dmiller
ARTICLE HERE
Close the borders. We have too many jerk-offs here now,
without allowing more coming in to fugg up *life as we know it*.
Assuming the article is true (and it may or may not be),
we don't need extraa$$holes mandating THEIR wishes upon US (Read --- U.S.),
by firing guns in a college setting (or anywhere else for that matter).
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markomalley
Whether the individual was a foreign national or not is irrelevant.
I am all in favor of controlling immigration and have expressed myself to the nth degree reflecting that; but there are valid reasons for controlling immigration and there are not. This is not one of them.
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HAPe4me
well said, MarkO
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Mister P-Mosh
Probably 99.999% of those jerk-offs screwing our country up are born in the U.S.A.
Besides, it's not like China is known for crazies coming here and shooting up our stuff. They're killing us by serving us General Tso's Chicken and selling us useless plastic trinkets through Walmart.
In any case, whether he was an immigrant, legal or on an expired visa, or a U.S. citizen, it doesn't matter. What he did was horrific, and we can blame nobody but him for this. There are certainly things that could have been done differently that may have resulted in fewer to no deaths, but he was the only one that really knew what was going to happen.
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dmiller
Duly noted. I'll keep that in mind.
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Rocky
This man apparently did NOT acquire the weapons LEGALLY. So, there's AT LEAST one other party that must share some responsibility, as the crimes committed in illegally conveying those weapons makes the person, at minimum, an accessory BEFORE the fact... and depending on Virginia state law, may make the weapons provider also legally responsible for felony murder.
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ChattyKathy
I don't care if he came from Pluto he shouldn't have been here if he didn't have legal papers to be. And these are two different issues for me even though I have a STRONG voice against our current immigration policies. I voiced what I did about this incident because it would be used and yes abused in regards to the HOT subject of immigration. And by this forum alone I would say that was a valid point.
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nyunknown
My prayers goes out to the victumes of this horrible tradegy and there familes. This is so bizzare two where killed around 7am was was not the campus locked down?This madman started his killing spree again two hours later? what where the campus police doing? Why was not the national guard call in ,the fbi, the swat teams called in? what was mayor the governered call the national guard and homeland serurity? True it is a large campus but have we forgotton sept 11 and collbine tradegy? George santana once said those who do not know there history are cursed to repeat it!
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ChattyKathy
Good points and questions.
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Raf
Freddy's Fashion Mart: homegrown perp.
Little Chester Shoe Store: homegrown perp.
Columbine: homegrown perps.
That nut in the clock tower in Texas: homegrown perp.
Oklahoma City: homegrown perp.
Origin of the perp is a sideshow. The issue is valid by itself. Don't let it distract you from the horror that took place here.
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ChattyKathy
Agreed Raf.
All be well and safe this day......
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GrouchoMarxJr
...How very sad and tragic...
How do we avoid this type of thing in the future?...we can't...not without locking down every university in the country and installing high security metal detectors, etc and making them like prisons..it's the same dilema that we consider to avoid terrorist attacks.
It's one of the negative consequences that we must endure in order to remain free.
My prayers are with the families of those victims.
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ChattyKathy
Just in case I was not read correctly I wanted to repeat that I do not believe this needs to turn into an illegals debate but I knew it would. I am not so blind as to know it could have been anyone and I don't want anyone to think I am lessoning the sting of it by taking it into a political realm.
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Mister P-Mosh
His name was Cho Seung-Hui, and he was a LEGAL immigrant from Korea on a student visa as he was a student at the school.
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Belle
Well, y'all know I'm quick to defend any law enforcement office because I know what they go through and how hard they try to protect the public - even from themselves. It just ....es me off to no end to see them second guessing the VT Police. Angry
They did the best they could with the information they had. How DARE the media roast them and stir up controversy where there is none?? Even the students are saying that they thought the police did the best they could, but with the raw emotion and vulnerability of those kids right now, the media is just feeding on contorting their memory and reason. Did I say it ....es me off?? Angry
I turned to CNN or Fox or some other station last night to see if there were any updates and Bill O'Reilly was on. What a fargin' foot! I wanted to shoot him through the tv. Bastard!!
Kids are dead! Professors are dead! dang happens - horrible, awful, tragic dang happens and, too many times, there's just nothing that could have been done to stop it.
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Mister P-Mosh
I hate to be pedantic, but I'm tired of hearing the media constantly say that this is the worst shooting in U.S. history. It is the worst school shooting in more than 50 years, but not the worst shooting in our history.
I would argue that the U.S. Civil War had far worse casualties. The battle of Gettysburg resulted in about 200k Americans (counting casualties of the firefight on both sides and ignoring deaths by disease) being killed in battle.
If you want to ignore the wars we've been in, then you could even say that the battle during the Homestead Strike resulted in more deaths.
For school deaths, the Bath school disaster in Michigan resulted in 45 deaths.
The fact is, while this is a horrific tragedy, the media still finds a way to exploit it and "hype" what has happened.
Even more sad though, this would probably be considered a "light" day of killings in Iraq.
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ex70sHouston
I want to bring up the Professor of German who locked and blocked the door until he was killed allowing many of his students to jump out a window.
Lets remember the students that were only there to learn.
The police did all they could do to stop it.
They entered the second floor as the shooter offed himself.
The media just wants to hype this to make more green stuff. Lets all just poo poo on them.
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ChattyKathy
I can't keep up on stuff as I'm still training my replacement but it is such a tragedy and I did not want to add to the hype myself. It was a horror of which adds fear to our society and takes innocence away even further. The world is not getting any nicer and I suspect never will.
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dmiller
Professor Librescu: "a wonderful man, a survivor,
and a hero" one student wrote
Heroic professor among Virginia Tech dead
From THIS SITE
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nyunknown
I have a lot of respect for law enforcement they put themselves in harms way to protect us. It is quite clear there was a terrible breach of security. It true you cannot prevent every tradegy.This madman is soley resopisibly for what happen.It seem to me that this president
Charles steger should be brought on charges how can he defend sending e-mails and delaying people on campus that there was a problem. Has he ever head of a blowhorn?
I was in New york when sept 11 occoured the mayor and the goveneror did not waste time.If I was in charge of the campus and I heard two people where killed I would me concerned about the safety of the students and the 11000 people coming in. With a 2 hour gap? Espically If I knew that this guman was not caught. They dont hold fire drills anymore? Pardon me for venting I feel for those families who lost ther loved ones.
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dmiller
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Belle
The early morning murders appeared to the police to be a domestic issue and, not unlike a man killing his girlfriend and a neighbor in a neighborhood or apartment complex, the police considered it to be an isolated event. It looked like an isolated event and, I suppose, if the media had been alerted to that and started their broadcast at 8am, they would have portrayed it as such. A neighborhood would not be evacuated because of it.
Where's the killer? They wouldn't want to know because of worry that he would kill someone else, much less a bunch of other people. It would be to catch him - period - for the crime he committed. It looked from all accounts, like a mad, upset, jilted lover who killed his intended target and the poor resident assistant who tried to protect her and then went on his way.
They still have NOT connected the two shootings. For all we know, it could be a horrible coincidence that a jilted lover shot his intended victim and innocent bystander on the same day that some friggin' lunatic went ballistic at another part of campus. You don't think the cops talked to witnesses and other residents in the hall when the shooting happened? You don't think they set about trying to identify & catch the killer right then? You don't think they thought through every scenario and tried to decide the best course of action?
Furthermore, I suspect that many students would have read the e-mail and continued on with their daily routines, no matter what time the e-mail came out. In fact, many students did just that anyway. They got the e-mail, read it and then went on to class like normal. *shrug* Again, it did not appear that there was any danger or anything to be concerned about.
There's a lot more to a "lock down" than the general population can fathom. That wasn't enough evidence to warrant a lock-down and, if they had implemented a lock down, it still would have taken a long time to get everyone in place and still would not have stopped that murderer. Kids were walking across campus, kids were scattered all over the place - how're you going to communicate instantly to 26,000+ people spread out over many, many acres, buildings and properties? You can't do it. AND, trying to do it could cause more mayhem and chaos, putting more lives in danger than originally could/would have been.
Frustrating as it is - the police did everything they knew to do and everything the evidence led them to do. It's just a tragedy and blaming them doesn't change the fact that too many lives were destroyed and forever changed.
It's not the fault of the police.
This is my little rant - not to anyone in particular, just how friggin' frustrated I get when the police are blamed for doing their job to the best of their ability:
People have NO IDEA the hours upon hours of training law enforcement goes through. They have NO IDEA the stress and pressure put on them to protect lives - even the lives of idiots doing stupid stuff that could get themselves killed. They have NO IDEA what it's like having so many rules to follow when the bad guys don't have any rules. The police get blamed for not being perfect and it ....es me off to no end.
People should know what it's like putting your life on the line every freaking day! People should know what it's like pulling over cars for speeding, running red lights, etc many times a day not knowing if this is "the one" that could be the lunatic who tries to kill you. People should know what it's like getting blamed every time a bad guy gets away with something. People should know what it's like facing off with a guy who's got a gun knowing that if you a) shoot the em effer & kill him you're going to be persecuted for not waiting long enough to give the guy a chance to surrender b) don't shoot him in time and he kills someone, including yourself, you're going to be persecuted for not shooting quick enough to protect lives, including your own. Bad guys don't have any rules - law enforcement has miles upon miles of red tape and rules. They're d@mned if they do ~ d@mned if they don't. It's a wonder anyone wants to be in law enforcement these days.
I wish everyone had to go through 1/1 billionth of the guilt, stress and fear that an officer does on a daily basis. THEN, people might not be so quick to judge when things like this happen. They aren't God - they're human - humans with an extraordinary sense of duty and responsibility that tears them up when they feel they've let the public down. Could no one else tell that the VT chief was near tears every time he was interviewed? You think those men and women on the police forces involved slept a wink last night? You think they aren't already beating themselves up for something that was completely beyond their control and scope of knowledge to be able to prevent?
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Mister P-Mosh
Actually. they've determined that the same gun was used in both incidents. That doesn't detract from the rest of your post, but I wanted to pass on the additional information.
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Ron G.
How DARE the media roast the police???
First of all, it sells copy therefore advertising, it gives the talking buffoons something to philosophize about, it makes them feel important in giving the impression that their "journalistic investigations" outweigh those of police officials and it titillates liberals.
I used to take pictures for a newspaper back in the archaic days of film and darkrooms. I sat in the donut shops with local police many times and when I wasn't, I had my scanner and Nikon at the ready all the time.
I saw a lot of stuff and can tell you that cops earn their keep. I only saw and recorded stuff...they LIVE it and take a great deal of heat for much of it, even though they shouldn't have to.
I understand why so many find solace in bottles.
I'm with you 100% on this'un, Belle.
PMosh...
I wasn't aware that Gettysburg qualified as a school shooting. I don't exactly get your point.
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