Eyes, what corps were you in, if you don't mind my asking. Did corps people really sneak away in the night after POP? I never knew that.
I knew people in the corps that took NoDoze before corps night so they could stay awake. When did they start allowing people to stand? No one would have dared do that with us in the 7th.
Yeah, VP or Craig droning on and on.
Craig used to wow everyone with his photographic memory - everyone thought he was just amazing how he could rattle off the chapters and verse.
In my last year, it was made bearable by a 9th corps guy who sat near me, who drew puffy the cat cartoons - they were a riot. I made him entertain me by drawing new ones then and there. He was great. He later ended up on staff and met a local St. Mary's lady and had some good times! Bless his heart! I never told. I figured by then, he deserved it.
As far as retemories - that was a nightmare for me. LCM yelling and screaming at those that didn't have them down.
I have terrible memory for that stuff. After every corps night, we'd have to stay after and do this written test on them. Me and a group of 20 or so flunked them every corps night. Near the end of the year, LCM went on a rampage against those of us who kept failing.
Finally, it was really late one night, he was tired, gave us our tests, and said have them on his desk at 7:00 a.m. I went back, pulled out my bible and filled it out and had it on his desk. I got 100%. Thank God for that little window of opportunity.
Why did they have to spend almost all year on one section?
Why did they call it "Corps Night"? You were in the Corps, surrounded by other Corps, constantly doing the Corps program and getting Corps teachings, involved in the Corps work program. Was Wednesday night more Corpsish than the other six days?
Why did they call it "Corps Night"? You were in the Corps, surrounded by other Corps, constantly doing the Corps program and getting Corps teachings, involved in the Corps work program. Was Wednesday night more Corpsish than the other six days?
Perhaps they should have called it "Gulag Indoctrination Night"
I always thought that corps night was the eqivalency of toilet training for a two year old...We were literally forced to sit until our taskmasters were satisfied at the level of excretement that was dispensed...
...but then again, a two year old is not required to consume the excretement...
I always thought that corps night was the eqivalency of toilet training for a two year old...We were literally forced to sit until our taskmasters were satisfied at the level of excretement that was dispensed...
...but then again, a two year old is not required to consume the excretement...
True - but some do like to rub a puppy's nose in it.......
Perhaps that is the most telling of all - and on a "silver platter" too.
I knew people in the corps that took NoDoze before corps night so they could stay awake. When did they start allowing people to stand? No one would have dared do that with us in the 7th.
I was 11th, but the 9th was also standing -- ask Exxie.
Nodoze -- sounds good.
Dooj, Groucho and Oak
It was like poo-poo on a plate. And we were forced to eat it and remark about its wonderful taste....
Oak
I think it was corps night as THIS night was special, no college were allowed to go, it was for corps only. At first, I thought great answers and research mysteries would be revealed. Then, it was just another boring, unexciting joke.
remember when there would be a pryer vigil for some sick person of levelness or another....we could get to pray in the "prayer" room (Sleep) in the back corner. I was a V then and we sat near the door...us lowly end of the alphabet people....of course being that far back made it easier to sleep.
I did get called on by DB...messed up the retemory and had to go to his office the next day and say it...but that was it....I think he thought it was humiliating too.
Dear Oak- It was called corps nite cause they turned us all into "corpses".
I thought it was so silly we had this hype put on us all day long by the mog's ""it's corps night tonight stay sharp" and we'd have to put on suits to go listen to someone who couldn't see us anyway because it was a phone hookup.
Eyes, what corps were you in, if you don't mind my asking. Did corps people really sneak away in the night after POP? I never knew that.
I was in the 16th, ok yes I know I'm the baby here with all you elder corps, but I can tell why there are so few 16th and probably 14th running around these days. We were in res. when POP was read. Yes the night that it was read to the corps, ya'll probably called in for the phone hook up; I dont remember if it was all the same night, because I remember hearing it twice in res. Anyway the first night that it was read many were crying, some were just staring, others angry and then those that didn't seem to care. There were lots of phone calling going on, it was impossible to find an unused phone. They all had major lines of people waiting to use them. No matter where you went you heard either crying or yelling or both. But we were told to just go back to our dorm, talk to someone if we needed to. There was no after meeting. Rev Fart and wife didn't come up on stage, he just spoke from the back of the room and then left.
The next morning he stopped by at breakfast. The room was short a fair number of people. Bless patrol had reported cars and taxis coming up to the gate most of the night. He told us that there would be no classes today and everyone was just supposed to work the word and make sense of everything. He told us that many had left from all the campuses, mostly Emporia. More had already announced their intentions to leave as soon as their ride or their money showed up. He never ate and didn't stay long. It was kind of like this for about a week. We kept expecting Cindy to come and tell us what really was going on...it had to be some joke...right? But she had left for HQ, never told us.
Then the reports of people leaving from the field started coming in, then POP was read to everyone else. It was a mad hayday at Emporia. We were told that if we left then we were weak and not committed to God or His ministry at all. We would be unsalted and worse than greasespots. Well you all know the condemnation speal. The 14th corps became the "lazy" corps and the 16th corps became the scapegoats. We just weren't spiritual enough or this whole thing would not have happened. Those that stayed were expected to be obediant without question and if we weren't reasons were found to kick us out or keep us from coming back depending on where you fell on the list. It was methodical, almost like they were going alphabetically. Watching and waiting on each one of us to see if we would "screw up".
Anyway that was life for the 16th after POP. I found out from a friend that stayed at HQ after I was asked to use the door that Rev Fart had decided that I needed to go after my LEAD adventure, a year and a half before. But that is another story.
The 14th corps became the "lazy" corps and the 16th corps became the scapegoats. We just weren't spiritual enough or this whole thing would not have happened. Those that stayed were expected to be obediant without question and if we weren't reasons were found to kick us out or keep us from coming back depending on where you fell on the list.
Jeez Eyes, that's an amazing story. I always wondered what it was like for the corps who were in residence during that time.
It figures, it was all you guys fault, wasn't it? Don't worry, CG**r said 90% of the WC was possessed.
So, how did you find out you were marked to leave before that, and why did they keep you on? What schmucks.
It sounds like this was used to start "purging" the corps right then adn there. How many of you were called in and asked to leave?
How were you treated by the others while waiting for your rides, did they even feed you??
Did they not say anything to the corps staying that you had been kicked out? If they did say something, were those asked to leave ostracized by their "brothers and sisters"?
Jeez Eyes, that's an amazing story. I always wondered what it was like for the corps who were in residence during that time.
It figures, it was all you guys fault, wasn't it? Don't worry, CG**r said 90% of the WC was possessed.
So, how did you find out you were marked to leave before that, and why did they keep you on? What schmucks.
It sounds like this was used to start "purging" the corps right then adn there. How many of you were called in and asked to leave?
How were you treated by the others while waiting for your rides, did they even feed you??
Did they not say anything to the corps staying that you had been kicked out? If they did say something, were those asked to leave ostracized by their "brothers and sisters"?
All very good questions Sunesis, let me take them one at a time and tell you what I remember. To begin with I know that HQ handled things a little differently than Gunnison and Emporia.
First off for the most part the degregation of the ministry was laid at the feet of the 16th. We werent spiritual enough, we werent mature enough, we werent taught right by our senior corps the "lazy" ones...We were told that CG was talking about us the 16th when he said 90% were screwed up the rest of the corps was the 10%. With all the crap that LCM blamed us for I dont know why he didn't just disolve the 16th, not that he didn't threaten to, but why didn't he?
I must admit that Rev Fart did not like me anyway, and he let me know it long before LEAD (Jan 86) but on LEAD he set me up, but again thats another story. Suffice it to say he couldn't purge me then because although I didn't do what he wanted he had bigger problems, as my LEAD group came back very injured. Many lost parts of their feet, lots of people left, many sued, the LEAD coordinators were reassigned. It was a mess. I didn't listen to their advice and came back in one piece. They couldn't afford to "can" me because I knew where the error took place and I was , literally the walking evidence.
Some of the "canning" took place right away. Emporia especially got rid of anyone that was asking too many questions, too loudly. If it started any kind of ruckess (sp), they were told that they were too immature or something and told to go home.
We were never given any numbers of who called in or how many at Emporia, perhaps they did at HQ. We only know that it happened because some of us stayed in contact with HQ for a time. But our "free" contact with the other campuses was severely limited after POP. They did not want us to communicate.
After the first week of shock was over and her royal highny returned lots of new rules sprang up. I can't prove it but I am fairly certain that they went through every single person still left on campus and made their initial decisions then. You know how they used to filter out the women that would most likely be influenced to sleep with VP? Well it was something like that. They determined who would most likely become a Loy robot and worked down from there. It's not like they needed a reason to kick someone out but I think that they were still trying to save a little face at this point. I really think that they started with the 14th they were slated to graduate soon and LCM probably didn't want to hand out too many diplomas to those that wouldn't back him.
Again I can't prove it but this is what the impression was.
Gunnison kind of stood off to the side all this time as Rev Lardbut was VERY full of himself and would in no wise have any half baked corps in his lot. Besides he had a building to complete they didn't have time to run a purge. What and lose all that free skilled labour, are you kidding?
How were those leaving treated, well the first wave left in the dark of night...any questions? In truth there was a mixed bag of responses to those that were leaving. But as time went on and the more tolerant wised up and left the hard core people would give anyone a hard time for even mentioning CG. It became very Nazi like at Emporia and I didnt even stay there all year.
But in defence of those that left at night, I think they left that way because of the condemnation. I know that up until about a year ago, when I came back here to GS, I felt that I had failed because I didn't finish the corps. I wasn't good enough, not spiritual enough, I was sub par for not standing by the MOG when he was in need. I just cant believe that all these years later I still believed it. In fact I couldn't believe that any of you, my senior corps would even talk to me, let alone forgive me for failing. (That's probably the biggest reason that I didn't stay the first time I came to GS back in 2001. I really believed what LCM had taught that the 16th were not good enough to be in the company of real corps. And I didn't even finish.) This is me just shaking my head at all the years wasted.
Anyway, onward we go...Most of the folks that were waiting for rides would still dine with the rest, at least for the first week after POP. But then afterwards if they told Rev Fart that they were leaving they had better have their bags packed because they were going to be escorted off of campus right then and there. I remember one night I was on bless patrol (something I seldom did after they found out I could cook), I saw one of our corps sisters sitting on the grass surrounded by bags right outside the gate, the one on the right as you approach Emporia. She was just sitting there with her head in her hands. I was going to go and talk to her but I was stopped by someone and told to stay on the grounds. I was relieved a short while later and never put on bless patrol again, even after I was transfered to Gunnison.
As LCM became more bold and cocky life inside became like a true military training camp. Those that were leaving were seldom allowed to talk to anyone. They were isolated by leadership not ostracized by their piers, they were anathema once they left their names were not to be spoken again. It was what we were ordered to do. I personally never felt anything against them, it was their decision and I was in fact doing some serious questioning myself.
Rev Fart tried so very hard to get the people that he didn't like to make mistakes. He had his own little band of SS troops that stood in doorways listening to conversations and phonecalls. Some people would return to thier room and find their things had been gone through. You couldn't trust anyone so if you were smart you never spoke out of turn, you memorized your retemories, you never slept in a teaching and you never ever spoke a negative thing about the BOT ever.
Oh and the last question to answer, how did I find out...I still had some friends at HQ that were 16th. One had heard LCM's little sis Carrie, who was also 16th bragging about how she had "arranged" my downfall beginning with the LEAD trip we had gone on. She also managed to survive the trip with all of her toes, others did as well. I made that sound like it was everyone but it was really only about 60% that came back damaged in some way. Sorry.
So Sunesis thank you for asking. It was not until now answering your questions and actually puting it onto "paper" that I can so clearly see just how programed I was...I was a good little Nazi. Sorry 'bout the mushy stuff.
WW say hay to your hubby, he was my elder corps and even though I probably didn't know him it's just nice to hear that someone else survived and made it to GS.
All these years later, I wish I had had the sense to leave. But this is me stubborn Miss Fixit. I still have a letter that I wrote to Rev Muttindale asking him to fix the problem..he wrote on the bottom of my letter "I'm trying". I believed him...I'm shaking my head again.
Eyes...I would like to hear more about the lead incident that you mentioned. Can you start a new thread and tell about it?
There was an accident where the driver was attempting to do a lead evaluation while driving down the mountain with a truck and trailer load of people.
Some never recovered. (I am not blaming the driver...twi had enough money to purchase safe transportation up and down the mountain.)
It interests me that we were to place our lives in leaders hands unquestioningly...follow their orders and God would have to cover even if they were wrong....they covered this crap up so that we wouldn`t question or doubt what we were being required to do...
Hey don`t question your leader...it`s like questioning God.
But I've never heard about one with a lot of people losing toes or sustaining other physical damage, either. (Why am I still amazed at how much information the leadership kept hidden from us?)
Dear HCW-Thank you so much for all you did to help those folks. You were very brave under the circumstances. I read your storey and it made me cry.
Those were some of my good friends, peole that I had spent time with and loved. The 11 coprs was a special group of people to me and I always will love them.
I can't beleive I never heard of this. Of course I was on the field that year because I was international corps. This makes me so mad. If I can ever do anything for you please let me know.
Dear Eyes-You have more quality than any of those jerk leaders you mentioned. You are just as much corps as any of us who were in there. So I now pronounce you corps (if that means anything). LOL
Thanks for taking the time to share what you shared.
I sat through a year of Walter's corps nights at HQ, and then a year of Martindale's (again at HQ). WC had me totally confused. Would set us a word study, we'd all work it and come up with some answer (all several hundred of us, coming up with basically the same answer) only to have him tell us it meant something completely different at the next corps night. Phooey!!! I really lost any respect I had left for their research abilities after that. Mostly just went through the motions for hubby's sake.
Martindale's corps nights weren't all that bad, really. It was when he was teaching ACTS, and we got to sit in the OSC dining room at tables, instead of trying to balance a lap-board, bible, notepad, and any other required reference materials on your lap while trying not to elbow the poor person in the seat next to you for three hours.
We also usually didn't do the retemories-testing before, or the afterglow meetings afterwards. We did retemory testing at breakfast with the Horneys and before some regular evening meetings/classes. And we always did an afterglow after the SNS.
Actually, I remember being jealous of Corps Nights when I was at Emporia (College Program). We were all lead to believe that some marvelous, insider-spiritual stuff was being shared and we were missing it. HAH!
Highway, Nope, you weren't missing anything "spiritual" or heavy. I think some of us looked at the college division and were jealous. You guys had your lives and could pretty much do what you wanted!
Eyes, thanks for sharing! I know, if you weren't in the corps, people don't understand how you could feel the sense of condemnation even years later. Yes, they did set people up to fail. I know on my interim year, I was sent to one of the NYC boroughs. I was overjoyed - couldn't believe my luck. DM came up and asked how I felt about it. I said, great! She seemed quite surprised and and a bit puzzled I was so happy about it. It never occured to me to tell her I had grown up there. I'm glad I didn't or they would have probably changed my assignment. I felt that way, because I had grown up in the NYC suburbs and the City had been my playground so to speak. My parents had friends there, as young as ten, they'd go in and party for New Years Eve and leave me with their friends' kids for the weekend and we roamed the city without adults. I loved it, vowed I would live there someday in Manhattan. When the hippie revelution hit, me and my 9th grade buddies would roam the east and west village and hang in Washington Square Park or Tompkins Square Park - the ground zero of hippiedoom on the east coast. Everyone did, it just just a 20 minute train ride away. My parents still had friends in Brooklyn and other places, and some in NJ.
Anyway, I found out years later, DM told me they had sent me there because they figured it would make or break me. They thought I was going to have a misreable year and fail. She was stunned when I said, why would you think that - that it would break me? Well, since my family had moved to Ohio in my senior year of high school, for some reason, leadership thought we had always lived in Ohio. I told DM, but I grew up in NY. She said, no wonder you were so happy to be going back. Actually, I had a lot of fun there that interim year - unrelated to TWI. Weekends at the Jersey shore that summer with my mom's friends, hanging at Coney Island, lovely summer days in Washington Square Park in Manhattan, plus I had my job there.
My father was going to pay my last month's corps tuition, it all had to be in before we went back to our last year in residence. He forgot, so it wasn't in on time. LCM sent out a nasty letter - don't come back for a year, I'll see you with the 8th! I called his secretary in tears, its on its way! Please let me back! She was nice, but LCM was heartless. I was bummed for a week, I was a total failure it was awful the condemnation - but then I came to my senses. I thought, whoa, hello, wait a minute, I'm having a great time here. Some Manhattan believers had a place in SoHo, one of their roommates was leaving, and they asked me to come on over and live with them! I thought, this is great, this is my dream, fine, I'll take the year off and come back with the 8th corps.
So I wrote a letter telling LCM, fine, no problem, see ya in a year with the 8th! It was literally that long - one sentence.
Well, boy, did I hear back super quickly from him - he told me to get my butt back with the 7th. I guess the money showed up, but by then, I was a bit bummed out - I was really looking forward to staying. I wish someone had talked some sense into me. If I had stayed, I don't think I would have gone back. But, I also realized, when they made threats, if you called their bluff, they backed down.
I've digressed...
I'd also like to hear about this LEAD accident, what happened, and how did you escape getting hurt? What was your disobedience?
The talk of losing toes ... sounds like frostbite. I had it mild, couldn't feel my toes for a month or three. We had some early cold but kept hiking up through two days of snow. I guess I didn't properly seal my leather boots, and my nice toasty sorrels weren't allowed. Finally warmed up for my solo/duo where I got the revelation "run away" which I took to mean "run a way home"
Eyes, if you wrote a letter to Craig, you did more than most I bet.
But I don't understand that the rest of you folks don't get the greatness of corpse night. I found that if I listen to those tapes now, after meekly drinking a fifth of drambouie, I can see the greatness of the word "A" actually that is about all I can see then ... Thank gawd I took copious notes cuz at the time the slurred words made no more sense than if it was some drunk guy struggling to make a sentence.
But I don't understand that the rest of you folks don't get the greatness of corpse night. I found that if I listen to those tapes now, after meekly drinking a fifth of drambouie, I can see the greatness of the word "A" actually that is about all I can see then ... Thank gawd I took copious notes cuz at the time the slurred words made no more sense than if it was some drunk guy struggling to make a sentence.
Let's see 1.6 mile run to the beer store, 8 Little Kings, 1.6 mile run back, ready for Corpse Night, wasn't it great to be in top physical shape!!!!
i'm very sorry for the "condemnation" you went through. i understand. i really do
i cannot imagine being in the 16th corps and told you were the f'd up corps
i was "on the field" and when psycho's tape was played, my first response was, "ohmygod it's my fault"
had it not been for a few smart people in that room, i don't know....
they looked at me and said, WHAT ???????????????? he's insane, why are you blaming yourself
and a lightbulb went off in my head probably for the first time in YEARS
--
sunesis, excellent post, love you
--
i NEVER heard about toes and LEAD
--
and i didn't know martindale had a sister in the corps. i think i remember her from years ago. she had his face but only she had hair on her head, if i remember correctly
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Sunesis
Eyes, what corps were you in, if you don't mind my asking. Did corps people really sneak away in the night after POP? I never knew that.
I knew people in the corps that took NoDoze before corps night so they could stay awake. When did they start allowing people to stand? No one would have dared do that with us in the 7th.
Yeah, VP or Craig droning on and on.
Craig used to wow everyone with his photographic memory - everyone thought he was just amazing how he could rattle off the chapters and verse.
In my last year, it was made bearable by a 9th corps guy who sat near me, who drew puffy the cat cartoons - they were a riot. I made him entertain me by drawing new ones then and there. He was great. He later ended up on staff and met a local St. Mary's lady and had some good times! Bless his heart! I never told. I figured by then, he deserved it.
As far as retemories - that was a nightmare for me. LCM yelling and screaming at those that didn't have them down.
I have terrible memory for that stuff. After every corps night, we'd have to stay after and do this written test on them. Me and a group of 20 or so flunked them every corps night. Near the end of the year, LCM went on a rampage against those of us who kept failing.
Finally, it was really late one night, he was tired, gave us our tests, and said have them on his desk at 7:00 a.m. I went back, pulled out my bible and filled it out and had it on his desk. I got 100%. Thank God for that little window of opportunity.
Why did they have to spend almost all year on one section?
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Oakspear
Why did they call it "Corps Night"? You were in the Corps, surrounded by other Corps, constantly doing the Corps program and getting Corps teachings, involved in the Corps work program. Was Wednesday night more Corpsish than the other six days?
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doojable
Perhaps they should have called it "Gulag Indoctrination Night"
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GrouchoMarxJr
I always thought that corps night was the eqivalency of toilet training for a two year old...We were literally forced to sit until our taskmasters were satisfied at the level of excretement that was dispensed...
...but then again, a two year old is not required to consume the excretement...
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doojable
True - but some do like to rub a puppy's nose in it.......
Perhaps that is the most telling of all - and on a "silver platter" too.
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Dot Matrix
I was 11th, but the 9th was also standing -- ask Exxie.
Nodoze -- sounds good.
Dooj, Groucho and Oak
It was like poo-poo on a plate. And we were forced to eat it and remark about its wonderful taste....
Oak
I think it was corps night as THIS night was special, no college were allowed to go, it was for corps only. At first, I thought great answers and research mysteries would be revealed. Then, it was just another boring, unexciting joke.
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washingtonweather
remember when there would be a pryer vigil for some sick person of levelness or another....we could get to pray in the "prayer" room (Sleep) in the back corner. I was a V then and we sat near the door...us lowly end of the alphabet people....of course being that far back made it easier to sleep.
I did get called on by DB...messed up the retemory and had to go to his office the next day and say it...but that was it....I think he thought it was humiliating too.
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polar bear
Dear Oak- It was called corps nite cause they turned us all into "corpses".
I thought it was so silly we had this hype put on us all day long by the mog's ""it's corps night tonight stay sharp" and we'd have to put on suits to go listen to someone who couldn't see us anyway because it was a phone hookup.
What the hell did I get mysielf into?
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Eyesopen
I was in the 16th, ok yes I know I'm the baby here with all you elder corps, but I can tell why there are so few 16th and probably 14th running around these days. We were in res. when POP was read. Yes the night that it was read to the corps, ya'll probably called in for the phone hook up; I dont remember if it was all the same night, because I remember hearing it twice in res. Anyway the first night that it was read many were crying, some were just staring, others angry and then those that didn't seem to care. There were lots of phone calling going on, it was impossible to find an unused phone. They all had major lines of people waiting to use them. No matter where you went you heard either crying or yelling or both. But we were told to just go back to our dorm, talk to someone if we needed to. There was no after meeting. Rev Fart and wife didn't come up on stage, he just spoke from the back of the room and then left.
The next morning he stopped by at breakfast. The room was short a fair number of people. Bless patrol had reported cars and taxis coming up to the gate most of the night. He told us that there would be no classes today and everyone was just supposed to work the word and make sense of everything. He told us that many had left from all the campuses, mostly Emporia. More had already announced their intentions to leave as soon as their ride or their money showed up. He never ate and didn't stay long. It was kind of like this for about a week. We kept expecting Cindy to come and tell us what really was going on...it had to be some joke...right? But she had left for HQ, never told us.
Then the reports of people leaving from the field started coming in, then POP was read to everyone else. It was a mad hayday at Emporia. We were told that if we left then we were weak and not committed to God or His ministry at all. We would be unsalted and worse than greasespots. Well you all know the condemnation speal. The 14th corps became the "lazy" corps and the 16th corps became the scapegoats. We just weren't spiritual enough or this whole thing would not have happened. Those that stayed were expected to be obediant without question and if we weren't reasons were found to kick us out or keep us from coming back depending on where you fell on the list. It was methodical, almost like they were going alphabetically. Watching and waiting on each one of us to see if we would "screw up".
Anyway that was life for the 16th after POP. I found out from a friend that stayed at HQ after I was asked to use the door that Rev Fart had decided that I needed to go after my LEAD adventure, a year and a half before. But that is another story.
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washingtonweather
Eyes - my hubby was there at POP-- he was 14th -- he told me all that "lazy" crap they laid on them and the accusations of the 16th ...what a crock
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Dot Matrix
Wow, I am glad I wasn't there! How awful!
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Sunesis
Jeez Eyes, that's an amazing story. I always wondered what it was like for the corps who were in residence during that time.
It figures, it was all you guys fault, wasn't it? Don't worry, CG**r said 90% of the WC was possessed.
So, how did you find out you were marked to leave before that, and why did they keep you on? What schmucks.
It sounds like this was used to start "purging" the corps right then adn there. How many of you were called in and asked to leave?
How were you treated by the others while waiting for your rides, did they even feed you??
Did they not say anything to the corps staying that you had been kicked out? If they did say something, were those asked to leave ostracized by their "brothers and sisters"?
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Eyesopen
All very good questions Sunesis, let me take them one at a time and tell you what I remember. To begin with I know that HQ handled things a little differently than Gunnison and Emporia.
First off for the most part the degregation of the ministry was laid at the feet of the 16th. We werent spiritual enough, we werent mature enough, we werent taught right by our senior corps the "lazy" ones...We were told that CG was talking about us the 16th when he said 90% were screwed up the rest of the corps was the 10%. With all the crap that LCM blamed us for I dont know why he didn't just disolve the 16th, not that he didn't threaten to, but why didn't he?
I must admit that Rev Fart did not like me anyway, and he let me know it long before LEAD (Jan 86) but on LEAD he set me up, but again thats another story. Suffice it to say he couldn't purge me then because although I didn't do what he wanted he had bigger problems, as my LEAD group came back very injured. Many lost parts of their feet, lots of people left, many sued, the LEAD coordinators were reassigned. It was a mess. I didn't listen to their advice and came back in one piece. They couldn't afford to "can" me because I knew where the error took place and I was , literally the walking evidence.
Some of the "canning" took place right away. Emporia especially got rid of anyone that was asking too many questions, too loudly. If it started any kind of ruckess (sp), they were told that they were too immature or something and told to go home.
We were never given any numbers of who called in or how many at Emporia, perhaps they did at HQ. We only know that it happened because some of us stayed in contact with HQ for a time. But our "free" contact with the other campuses was severely limited after POP. They did not want us to communicate.
After the first week of shock was over and her royal highny returned lots of new rules sprang up. I can't prove it but I am fairly certain that they went through every single person still left on campus and made their initial decisions then. You know how they used to filter out the women that would most likely be influenced to sleep with VP? Well it was something like that. They determined who would most likely become a Loy robot and worked down from there. It's not like they needed a reason to kick someone out but I think that they were still trying to save a little face at this point. I really think that they started with the 14th they were slated to graduate soon and LCM probably didn't want to hand out too many diplomas to those that wouldn't back him.
Again I can't prove it but this is what the impression was.
Gunnison kind of stood off to the side all this time as Rev Lardbut was VERY full of himself and would in no wise have any half baked corps in his lot. Besides he had a building to complete they didn't have time to run a purge. What and lose all that free skilled labour, are you kidding?
How were those leaving treated, well the first wave left in the dark of night...any questions? In truth there was a mixed bag of responses to those that were leaving. But as time went on and the more tolerant wised up and left the hard core people would give anyone a hard time for even mentioning CG. It became very Nazi like at Emporia and I didnt even stay there all year.
But in defence of those that left at night, I think they left that way because of the condemnation. I know that up until about a year ago, when I came back here to GS, I felt that I had failed because I didn't finish the corps. I wasn't good enough, not spiritual enough, I was sub par for not standing by the MOG when he was in need. I just cant believe that all these years later I still believed it. In fact I couldn't believe that any of you, my senior corps would even talk to me, let alone forgive me for failing. (That's probably the biggest reason that I didn't stay the first time I came to GS back in 2001. I really believed what LCM had taught that the 16th were not good enough to be in the company of real corps. And I didn't even finish.) This is me just shaking my head at all the years wasted.
Anyway, onward we go...Most of the folks that were waiting for rides would still dine with the rest, at least for the first week after POP. But then afterwards if they told Rev Fart that they were leaving they had better have their bags packed because they were going to be escorted off of campus right then and there. I remember one night I was on bless patrol (something I seldom did after they found out I could cook), I saw one of our corps sisters sitting on the grass surrounded by bags right outside the gate, the one on the right as you approach Emporia. She was just sitting there with her head in her hands. I was going to go and talk to her but I was stopped by someone and told to stay on the grounds. I was relieved a short while later and never put on bless patrol again, even after I was transfered to Gunnison.
As LCM became more bold and cocky life inside became like a true military training camp. Those that were leaving were seldom allowed to talk to anyone. They were isolated by leadership not ostracized by their piers, they were anathema once they left their names were not to be spoken again. It was what we were ordered to do. I personally never felt anything against them, it was their decision and I was in fact doing some serious questioning myself.
Rev Fart tried so very hard to get the people that he didn't like to make mistakes. He had his own little band of SS troops that stood in doorways listening to conversations and phonecalls. Some people would return to thier room and find their things had been gone through. You couldn't trust anyone so if you were smart you never spoke out of turn, you memorized your retemories, you never slept in a teaching and you never ever spoke a negative thing about the BOT ever.
Oh and the last question to answer, how did I find out...I still had some friends at HQ that were 16th. One had heard LCM's little sis Carrie, who was also 16th bragging about how she had "arranged" my downfall beginning with the LEAD trip we had gone on. She also managed to survive the trip with all of her toes, others did as well. I made that sound like it was everyone but it was really only about 60% that came back damaged in some way. Sorry.
So Sunesis thank you for asking. It was not until now answering your questions and actually puting it onto "paper" that I can so clearly see just how programed I was...I was a good little Nazi. Sorry 'bout the mushy stuff.
WW say hay to your hubby, he was my elder corps and even though I probably didn't know him it's just nice to hear that someone else survived and made it to GS.
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Eyesopen
All these years later, I wish I had had the sense to leave. But this is me stubborn Miss Fixit. I still have a letter that I wrote to Rev Muttindale asking him to fix the problem..he wrote on the bottom of my letter "I'm trying". I believed him...I'm shaking my head again.
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Dot Matrix
We were tricked. All in the same boat, we just left and entered at different times
(((EYES))))
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rascal
Eyes...I would like to hear more about the lead incident that you mentioned. Can you start a new thread and tell about it?
There was an accident where the driver was attempting to do a lead evaluation while driving down the mountain with a truck and trailer load of people.
Some never recovered. (I am not blaming the driver...twi had enough money to purchase safe transportation up and down the mountain.)
It interests me that we were to place our lives in leaders hands unquestioningly...follow their orders and God would have to cover even if they were wrong....they covered this crap up so that we wouldn`t question or doubt what we were being required to do...
Hey don`t question your leader...it`s like questioning God.
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TheHighWay
There is an extensive thread about that LEAD accident here (the one with the truck overturning):
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...amp;hl=accident
But I've never heard about one with a lot of people losing toes or sustaining other physical damage, either. (Why am I still amazed at how much information the leadership kept hidden from us?)
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polar bear
Dear HCW-Thank you so much for all you did to help those folks. You were very brave under the circumstances. I read your storey and it made me cry.
Those were some of my good friends, peole that I had spent time with and loved. The 11 coprs was a special group of people to me and I always will love them.
I can't beleive I never heard of this. Of course I was on the field that year because I was international corps. This makes me so mad. If I can ever do anything for you please let me know.
Your friend PB
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polar bear
Dear Eyes-You have more quality than any of those jerk leaders you mentioned. You are just as much corps as any of us who were in there. So I now pronounce you corps (if that means anything). LOL
Thanks for taking the time to share what you shared.
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TheHighWay
I sat through a year of Walter's corps nights at HQ, and then a year of Martindale's (again at HQ). WC had me totally confused. Would set us a word study, we'd all work it and come up with some answer (all several hundred of us, coming up with basically the same answer) only to have him tell us it meant something completely different at the next corps night. Phooey!!! I really lost any respect I had left for their research abilities after that. Mostly just went through the motions for hubby's sake.
Martindale's corps nights weren't all that bad, really. It was when he was teaching ACTS, and we got to sit in the OSC dining room at tables, instead of trying to balance a lap-board, bible, notepad, and any other required reference materials on your lap while trying not to elbow the poor person in the seat next to you for three hours.
We also usually didn't do the retemories-testing before, or the afterglow meetings afterwards. We did retemory testing at breakfast with the Horneys and before some regular evening meetings/classes. And we always did an afterglow after the SNS.
Actually, I remember being jealous of Corps Nights when I was at Emporia (College Program). We were all lead to believe that some marvelous, insider-spiritual stuff was being shared and we were missing it. HAH!
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Sunesis
Highway, Nope, you weren't missing anything "spiritual" or heavy. I think some of us looked at the college division and were jealous. You guys had your lives and could pretty much do what you wanted!
Eyes, thanks for sharing! I know, if you weren't in the corps, people don't understand how you could feel the sense of condemnation even years later. Yes, they did set people up to fail. I know on my interim year, I was sent to one of the NYC boroughs. I was overjoyed - couldn't believe my luck. DM came up and asked how I felt about it. I said, great! She seemed quite surprised and and a bit puzzled I was so happy about it. It never occured to me to tell her I had grown up there. I'm glad I didn't or they would have probably changed my assignment. I felt that way, because I had grown up in the NYC suburbs and the City had been my playground so to speak. My parents had friends there, as young as ten, they'd go in and party for New Years Eve and leave me with their friends' kids for the weekend and we roamed the city without adults. I loved it, vowed I would live there someday in Manhattan. When the hippie revelution hit, me and my 9th grade buddies would roam the east and west village and hang in Washington Square Park or Tompkins Square Park - the ground zero of hippiedoom on the east coast. Everyone did, it just just a 20 minute train ride away. My parents still had friends in Brooklyn and other places, and some in NJ.
Anyway, I found out years later, DM told me they had sent me there because they figured it would make or break me. They thought I was going to have a misreable year and fail. She was stunned when I said, why would you think that - that it would break me? Well, since my family had moved to Ohio in my senior year of high school, for some reason, leadership thought we had always lived in Ohio. I told DM, but I grew up in NY. She said, no wonder you were so happy to be going back. Actually, I had a lot of fun there that interim year - unrelated to TWI. Weekends at the Jersey shore that summer with my mom's friends, hanging at Coney Island, lovely summer days in Washington Square Park in Manhattan, plus I had my job there.
My father was going to pay my last month's corps tuition, it all had to be in before we went back to our last year in residence. He forgot, so it wasn't in on time. LCM sent out a nasty letter - don't come back for a year, I'll see you with the 8th! I called his secretary in tears, its on its way! Please let me back! She was nice, but LCM was heartless. I was bummed for a week, I was a total failure it was awful the condemnation - but then I came to my senses. I thought, whoa, hello, wait a minute, I'm having a great time here. Some Manhattan believers had a place in SoHo, one of their roommates was leaving, and they asked me to come on over and live with them! I thought, this is great, this is my dream, fine, I'll take the year off and come back with the 8th corps.
So I wrote a letter telling LCM, fine, no problem, see ya in a year with the 8th! It was literally that long - one sentence.
Well, boy, did I hear back super quickly from him - he told me to get my butt back with the 7th. I guess the money showed up, but by then, I was a bit bummed out - I was really looking forward to staying. I wish someone had talked some sense into me. If I had stayed, I don't think I would have gone back. But, I also realized, when they made threats, if you called their bluff, they backed down.
I've digressed...
I'd also like to hear about this LEAD accident, what happened, and how did you escape getting hurt? What was your disobedience?
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rhino
The talk of losing toes ... sounds like frostbite. I had it mild, couldn't feel my toes for a month or three. We had some early cold but kept hiking up through two days of snow. I guess I didn't properly seal my leather boots, and my nice toasty sorrels weren't allowed. Finally warmed up for my solo/duo where I got the revelation "run away" which I took to mean "run a way home"
Eyes, if you wrote a letter to Craig, you did more than most I bet.
But I don't understand that the rest of you folks don't get the greatness of corpse night. I found that if I listen to those tapes now, after meekly drinking a fifth of drambouie, I can see the greatness of the word "A" actually that is about all I can see then ... Thank gawd I took copious notes cuz at the time the slurred words made no more sense than if it was some drunk guy struggling to make a sentence.
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griffp
Let's see 1.6 mile run to the beer store, 8 Little Kings, 1.6 mile run back, ready for Corpse Night, wasn't it great to be in top physical shape!!!!
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excathedra
rhino and griff you're funny
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dearest eyes,
i'm very sorry for the "condemnation" you went through. i understand. i really do
i cannot imagine being in the 16th corps and told you were the f'd up corps
i was "on the field" and when psycho's tape was played, my first response was, "ohmygod it's my fault"
had it not been for a few smart people in that room, i don't know....
they looked at me and said, WHAT ???????????????? he's insane, why are you blaming yourself
and a lightbulb went off in my head probably for the first time in YEARS
--
sunesis, excellent post, love you
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i NEVER heard about toes and LEAD
--
and i didn't know martindale had a sister in the corps. i think i remember her from years ago. she had his face but only she had hair on her head, if i remember correctly
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