Yeah, he got dethroned and lost his crown... but an ego like that doesn't repent. I respectfully disagree that he really has a clue about the damage he caused during his presidency or has any remorse afterwards.... there's been threads about those who have encountered him recently and he thought the problem with the women was that they got upset he wasn't giving them enough attention.... so they burned him...
...but it makes sense in a very real way...Martindale wasn't like most wayfers...Martindale was REALLY off the deep end...I mean, he wandered through a dreamworld of delusional self grandeur of such a magnitude that it's a wonder he didn't end up in a freaking straightjacket...my guess is that he's made himself a martyr in his own mind...he probably thinks of himself now as a kind of Jeremiah...the rejected prophet.
He probably still has a faithful cadre of delusional cult freaks that secretly "carry messages" and nod their heads up and down when he meets with them behind closed doors...telling them that the true kingdom is being held in abeyance until such a time arrives when the true prophet of God arises once more and takes his rightful throne...
...He probably still wears his "Athletes" tights when nobody is around...he looks into the mirror and shouts "flame on"!
He probably still has a faithful cadre of delusional cult freaks that secretly "carry messages" and nod their heads up and down when he meets with them behind closed doors...telling them that the true kingdom is being held in abeyance until such a time arrives when the true prophet of God arises once more and takes his rightful throne...
...He probably still wears his "Athletes" tights when nobody is around...he looks into the mirror and shouts "flame on"!
I think I had a nightmare like this once... Scary.
...but it makes sense in a very real way...Martindale wasn't like most wayfers...Martindale was REALLY off the deep end...I mean, he wandered through a dreamworld of delusional self grandeur of such a magnitude that it's a wonder he didn't end up in a freaking straightjacket...my guess is that he's made himself a martyr in his own mind...he probably thinks of himself now as a kind of Jeremiah...the rejected prophet.
He probably still has a faithful cadre of delusional cult freaks that secretly "carry messages" and nod their heads up and down when he meets with them behind closed doors...telling them that the true kingdom is being held in abeyance until such a time arrives when the true prophet of God arises once more and takes his rightful throne...
...He probably still wears his "Athletes" tights when nobody is around...he looks into the mirror and shouts "flame on"!
You mean he is one of the Fantastic 4(Mr. Fantastic, the Thing, or else the Torch"Flame On!)
With my own life as an example I think it is possible for even the most degenerate person to change. That is one of the promises of God--there can be a new life, a new beginning. While for many of us the idea of LCM ever wanting to change is dificult to grasp and/or comprehend, I do not discount the possiblity.
So Craig, if you are lurking or posting here, I for one would be interested in what you have to say. I would even go so far as to promise that I would hear you out and respond WITHOUT resorting to flaming of any kind.
I think many of my fellow GSCers would be willing to hear, not like or condone, what you have to say if you do it honestly and with no self justification for the more horrendous of your misdeeds.
If you truly want a new start, a new beginning, this is the place to find it , amoung those who followed you, and who were hurt by you.
Some will never forgive you, some actions created pain so horrific that the scars will always remain. But a MAN, a man of courage and of principle would face those so hurt face on.
What, at this point in your life, do you have to lose?
From what I understand, Craig and Donna are now divorced. The Way never so much as utters his name anymore. Judging by the Wayfers I know, he may as well be dead. So I suspect that he's entirely on his own now (with the possible exception of a small monthly stipend). Rosie has wanted him gone for a long while. She manipulated his neurosis and gave him all the rope he needed to hang himself. Now, she's sitting smugly in charge (and with Donna buy her side as planned), and Craig is out in the cold, probably wondering what the hell happened.
From what I understand, Craig and Donna are now divorced. The Way never so much as utters his name anymore. Judging by the Wayfers I know, he may as well be dead. So I suspect that he's entirely on his own now (with the possible exception of a small monthly stipend). Rosie has wanted him gone for a long while. She manipulated his neurosis and gave him all the rope he needed to hang himself. Now, she's sitting smugly in charge (and with Donna buy her side as planned), and Craig is out in the cold, probably wondering what the hell happened.
I don't think everyone has the ability to change. there are people who feel no remorse, who are so sure in their own sense of entitlement, that they cannot change. I think martindale is one of those, and it's very likely RR is as well, and Donna, too.
my personal opinion is that Donna and Rosie knew what martindale was up to the whole time, and there was a tacit agreement to live and let live among the upper echelon as long as it kept TPTB where they were. martindale upset the status quo by getting taken to court. I firmly believe that if they could have swept it under the carpet and kept him, they would have, but I also don't doubt for a minute that RR was happy to take power when the opportunity presented itself.
I waited three years for the apology before beginning to realize that they don't care. they have an excuse for everything, and in their eyes are justified in lying to the flock to maintain their position. it still took a while after my realization to find greasespot cafe. finding this place is the only thing that has made sense of everything I lived, but all the faithful would steer me away if they could because ex-way people are liars and worse than seed (so I was taught, or rather flogged into believing).
people close to him are starting to say he's beginning to see what he did was wrong. Is anyone ready to forgive him? (We all followed the doctrine at some point)
Who's close to him? Am I to understand that you think he has... friends?! As for forgiving him, I'd rather see him drawn & quartered beside that damned gazebo they loved so much. But seriously, after I had been out of twi long enough to begin thinking normally... I called anyone who I had brought in, and apologized. I also apologized to just about everyone who I could think of, who I had wronged because of the doctrine & cult-ish practices. They were receptive, and I felt a lot better. As bad as he was - an honest apology - deserves honest forgiveness (perhaps followed by drawing & quartering, in this case?).
Craig never has put himself in a situation to get confronted if he could help it. He surely won't come here because he is a BIG COWARD. If he thinks he did no wrong, why would he come here? He knows he would get an arse beating. I have a friend who spoke to him at his efficiency apartment a few years ago, and HE TOLD HER HE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG!!!! That is the twisted mind of a very sick individual. Being here is the last thing he needs IMHO. He needs professional help.
If this is true, it is one answer, but I think the following, is a lot more to the point:
At one point he was surrounded by arse kissing flunkies, who pampered him and hung on every word that came out of his pie hole...people jumped when he entered a room...he commanded with an iron fist. People looked to him for spiritual guidence...
Wonder what his typical day is like NOW?...
Having a clerks job for a freight company might have knocked him down a few pegs?...I can hear it now:
"Hey Craig, ya got that invoice?...you need to get that truck loaded or the boss is really gonna jump in your sh *t..."
...and I doubt that anyone sits around after eating their lunch to listen to his pontifications.
He'll never come here to apologize, because regardless of what he's telling himself... deep down, he's got to know that he's a meaningless NOBODY! We're all REALLY talking about the man who WAS holding the position! Now that he's stripped of that position, and now that you're free from the brainwashing, is "Loy the package handler" really someone who matters?
I doubt there's a soul on this site, who would be timid about walking up to him to give him a piece of their mind.
Now that I think of it, he probably does come here a lot. It's perhaps the only place in the world where he actually still means anything... a few hundred of us who actually care who he was. Otherwise, its back to loading the packages into the trucks.
I just reread the posts from Freud and jung...I believe they presented, what is, the probable condition of the former king okie.
They describe him as a man who is struggling with himself...as a man who has fallen from a great height and that there are areas of his life that are so painful that he cannot talk about them...in other words, he's a basket case. His own cruelty and hate and abuse and disregard finally devoured him and left him a sniveling "underachiever". Talk about getting your head messed up by twi...this was the guy who thought he was Joshua...and now he wears a clown suit and serves french fries...
I honestly don't think he even capable of posting here...it's beyond his emotional capacity.
I wonder if he ever figured out what rosie, donna and gang really did to him..
vic was ready to take a pretty big fall in his denomination as well. If I remember correctly, there were allegations of womanizing.. plus the embarassment of his actions regarding the mission work in India Plus who knows what else. Where would he go?
Perhaps the only difference between loy and "dad".. vic simply broke off, started his own brand, and his self esteem, not to mention self agrandizment, remained intact.
I wonder what he really was praying about, "I'm ready to quit.. unelss I get something I DON'T HAVE TO BACK DOWN on.."
Then comes the "voice of Gawd.."
They didn't have the kind of meds that loy had access to, back in those days..
might be a lot of surmising.. but it would not be the first time in history a few thousand people followed a madman..
I wonder if he ever figured out what rosie, donna and gang really did to him..
vic was ready to take a pretty big fall in his denomination as well. If I remember correctly, there were allegations of womanizing.. plus the embarassment of his actions regarding the mission work in India Plus who knows what else. Where would he go?
Hamm--- and anyone else who might know, --just wondering--
Do we know who made the allegations about Vic's womanizing in the church and where they came from? I have heard these rumors before, but would like to know specifically where they came from. Not that I doubt them now, because the fruit is borne out in his later behavior. Would just like to know the origin, so I know I'm not running on hearsay.
Were accusations leveled against him publicly by someone, or was this simply whispered among the congregation? Are there specific primary source documents within the church (Evangelistic Reformed?) that are accessible today that would prove he had been called before church officials for his behavior, and/or was about to be ousted at that period in time?
Would be nice to have those things documented and archived.
I don't understand why some folk continue to continue on LCM. The man is down and we REALLY Do not know his present attitude. If someone honestly knows his state of being, come forth. I do not believe all I read on the internet.
Shall we expose all of our sins? I wish not to argue..only make YOU think about yourself.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I suspect one of two things...
1-He still has that arrogant attitude and refuses to acknowledge those of us who he feels are inferior...
2-He finally snapped out of his deluded mind and is too filled with guilt and remorse to acknowledge us...
In either case, he a coward and a punk...
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JavaJane
If he does have a computer, I'd have this to say:
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nandon
you have a link to that thread? thanks :>
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GrouchoMarxJr
...but it makes sense in a very real way...Martindale wasn't like most wayfers...Martindale was REALLY off the deep end...I mean, he wandered through a dreamworld of delusional self grandeur of such a magnitude that it's a wonder he didn't end up in a freaking straightjacket...my guess is that he's made himself a martyr in his own mind...he probably thinks of himself now as a kind of Jeremiah...the rejected prophet.
He probably still has a faithful cadre of delusional cult freaks that secretly "carry messages" and nod their heads up and down when he meets with them behind closed doors...telling them that the true kingdom is being held in abeyance until such a time arrives when the true prophet of God arises once more and takes his rightful throne...
...He probably still wears his "Athletes" tights when nobody is around...he looks into the mirror and shouts "flame on"!
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Ham
Those who witnessed his behavior around the time of POP suggested the same thing, if I remember correctly..
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JavaJane
I think I had a nightmare like this once... Scary.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
You mean he is one of the Fantastic 4(Mr. Fantastic, the Thing, or else the Torch"Flame On!)Link to comment
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nyunknown
You mean he is one of the Fantastic 4(Mr. Fantastic, the Thing, or else the Torch"Flame On!)
Don't you mean DR. Doom?
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templelady
With my own life as an example I think it is possible for even the most degenerate person to change. That is one of the promises of God--there can be a new life, a new beginning. While for many of us the idea of LCM ever wanting to change is dificult to grasp and/or comprehend, I do not discount the possiblity.
So Craig, if you are lurking or posting here, I for one would be interested in what you have to say. I would even go so far as to promise that I would hear you out and respond WITHOUT resorting to flaming of any kind.
I think many of my fellow GSCers would be willing to hear, not like or condone, what you have to say if you do it honestly and with no self justification for the more horrendous of your misdeeds.
If you truly want a new start, a new beginning, this is the place to find it , amoung those who followed you, and who were hurt by you.
Some will never forgive you, some actions created pain so horrific that the scars will always remain. But a MAN, a man of courage and of principle would face those so hurt face on.
What, at this point in your life, do you have to lose?
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nyunknown
Ok if you don't think martindale was DR. Doom do you at least think he looked like Darth Sidious?
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Cherished Child
From what I understand, Craig and Donna are now divorced. The Way never so much as utters his name anymore. Judging by the Wayfers I know, he may as well be dead. So I suspect that he's entirely on his own now (with the possible exception of a small monthly stipend). Rosie has wanted him gone for a long while. She manipulated his neurosis and gave him all the rope he needed to hang himself. Now, she's sitting smugly in charge (and with Donna buy her side as planned), and Craig is out in the cold, probably wondering what the hell happened.
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Bolshevik
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ChasUFarley
CC - Glad to cyber-see you - always loved your posts!
And yes, I agree with you about the manuipulation part - like a spider with a fly...
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excathedra
so does rosie posie have a computer ? maybe she would like to share
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potato
I don't think everyone has the ability to change. there are people who feel no remorse, who are so sure in their own sense of entitlement, that they cannot change. I think martindale is one of those, and it's very likely RR is as well, and Donna, too.
my personal opinion is that Donna and Rosie knew what martindale was up to the whole time, and there was a tacit agreement to live and let live among the upper echelon as long as it kept TPTB where they were. martindale upset the status quo by getting taken to court. I firmly believe that if they could have swept it under the carpet and kept him, they would have, but I also don't doubt for a minute that RR was happy to take power when the opportunity presented itself.
I waited three years for the apology before beginning to realize that they don't care. they have an excuse for everything, and in their eyes are justified in lying to the flock to maintain their position. it still took a while after my realization to find greasespot cafe. finding this place is the only thing that has made sense of everything I lived, but all the faithful would steer me away if they could because ex-way people are liars and worse than seed (so I was taught, or rather flogged into believing).
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Jim
Well said, Potato.
Isn't it just incredible that the organization that we loved so much and felt so strongly was *right* could end up so corrupt?
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Ham
Hey you know, she probably could. Wouldn't get marked and avoided, or anything, unless she did it to herself..
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waytrix survivor
Who's close to him? Am I to understand that you think he has... friends?!
As for forgiving him, I'd rather see him drawn & quartered beside that damned gazebo they loved so much. But seriously, after I had been out of twi long enough to begin thinking normally... I called anyone who I had brought in, and apologized. I also apologized to just about everyone who I could think of, who I had wronged because of the doctrine & cult-ish practices. They were receptive, and I felt a lot better. As bad as he was - an honest apology - deserves honest forgiveness (perhaps followed by drawing & quartering, in this case?).
If this is true, it is one answer, but I think the following, is a lot more to the point:
He'll never come here to apologize, because regardless of what he's telling himself... deep down, he's got to know that he's a meaningless NOBODY! We're all REALLY talking about the man who WAS holding the position! Now that he's stripped of that position, and now that you're free from the brainwashing, is "Loy the package handler" really someone who matters?
I doubt there's a soul on this site, who would be timid about walking up to him to give him a piece of their mind.
Now that I think of it, he probably does come here a lot. It's perhaps the only place in the world where he actually still means anything... a few hundred of us who actually care who he was. Otherwise, its back to loading the packages into the trucks.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I just reread the posts from Freud and jung...I believe they presented, what is, the probable condition of the former king okie.
They describe him as a man who is struggling with himself...as a man who has fallen from a great height and that there are areas of his life that are so painful that he cannot talk about them...in other words, he's a basket case. His own cruelty and hate and abuse and disregard finally devoured him and left him a sniveling "underachiever". Talk about getting your head messed up by twi...this was the guy who thought he was Joshua...and now he wears a clown suit and serves french fries...
I honestly don't think he even capable of posting here...it's beyond his emotional capacity.
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Catcup
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waysider
I must be getting slow; I just now got it.
Loy, the "package" handler.
HaHaHaHa!
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Ham
I wonder if he ever figured out what rosie, donna and gang really did to him..
vic was ready to take a pretty big fall in his denomination as well. If I remember correctly, there were allegations of womanizing.. plus the embarassment of his actions regarding the mission work in India Plus who knows what else. Where would he go?
Perhaps the only difference between loy and "dad".. vic simply broke off, started his own brand, and his self esteem, not to mention self agrandizment, remained intact.
I wonder what he really was praying about, "I'm ready to quit.. unelss I get something I DON'T HAVE TO BACK DOWN on.."
Then comes the "voice of Gawd.."
They didn't have the kind of meds that loy had access to, back in those days..
might be a lot of surmising.. but it would not be the first time in history a few thousand people followed a madman..
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Catcup
Hamm--- and anyone else who might know, --just wondering--
Do we know who made the allegations about Vic's womanizing in the church and where they came from? I have heard these rumors before, but would like to know specifically where they came from. Not that I doubt them now, because the fruit is borne out in his later behavior. Would just like to know the origin, so I know I'm not running on hearsay.
Were accusations leveled against him publicly by someone, or was this simply whispered among the congregation? Are there specific primary source documents within the church (Evangelistic Reformed?) that are accessible today that would prove he had been called before church officials for his behavior, and/or was about to be ousted at that period in time?
Would be nice to have those things documented and archived.
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Ariel
I don't understand why some folk continue to continue on LCM. The man is down and we REALLY Do not know his present attitude. If someone honestly knows his state of being, come forth. I do not believe all I read on the internet.
Shall we expose all of our sins? I wish not to argue..only make YOU think about yourself.
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