I Guess all that time VP was "working the Word, hour upon hour, up to about 3 to 4 in the morning" he was copying other peoples works. We dare do that to them-- we would get a letter from their lawyers. or worse!!!
I wrote to the B. G. Leonard group about the VPW plagiarism thing. They did not address VPW specifically, but sent the following reply (which effectively does not lend any support to VPW but seems to imply by omission that his actions were not approved) :
01/08/03
"Dear Brother ******
Greetings to you in The Name of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!
Enclosed is a gift of one of Rev. B. G. Leonard's books (With other information that we provide here from Christian Training Centre of Texas) on the subject "Gospel of Grace". On the eighth page from the front of the book with the heading that says, "AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE RE REV. B. G. LEONARD'S BOOKS FROM THE AUTHOR TO YOU" Brother Leonard makes it clear concerning the issue of plagiarism and what God's Word says about this matter! I, Sister Evelyn, Mrs B. G. Leonard, continue to fulfill this same fact and truth. If you are interested in any more of Brother Leonard's works that God gave him which he walked in throughout his life in the ministry please feel free to contact us.
God bless you for your interest in furthering the work of The Lord Jesus Christ!
Sincerely in God's Love,
President - Rev. Evelyn T-Leonard (Mrs B. G. Leonard)"
The message makes it clear that B. G. took a very strong line against those who plagiarised his books.
He quotes the following bible verse:
Jeremiah 23:30
"Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour."
He also states that this has happened "from the first appearance of my books" (the book "Gifts of the Spirit" was first published in 1949).
You might also like to consider whether the following prophecy has come to pass upon those who stole his words:
Jeremiah 23:40
"And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame which shall not be forgotten."
Since this thread is entitled simply "B.G. Leonard", I think that there is some lattitude here for me to deviate from the plaigerism(sp?) thing. And so, a short stow-ree:
When my wife and I were at the Rock the year that we had a memorial for VPW after he died, I happened to be privy to a very interesting situation that involved Rev. B.G Leonard his own self. A good friend of my wife and myself happened to be the "guest buddy of Mr. Leonard. She was/is an Eight Corps grad by the name of Carolynn. B.G. had been invited to that ROA/Memorial for VPW as one of VP's teachers you see, and so, he came. And one day, as Carolynn, Mrs. Lingo and I sat for lunch with Rev. Leonard in the "lunch tent" (his wife was not present), all of the sudden, after the greetings and the pleasantries, Rev. Leonard just plain went off! We had been eating and enjoying each other's company, while listening to the music of Takit while they practiced to get ready for the evening's entertainment. I was a bit uncomfortable that this older gentleman from another generation had to listen to the "piped in" music of Takit, because I knew that he probably did not approve at all. And sure enough, at one point, he slammed his fist down and said vehemently: "This ministry will not stand! That music is the music of Baal! There is no way that this ministry will stand before God!" And, being the good little apologist and newly ordained Way Rev that I was, tried to defend the ministry with some weak excuse about we believers having "liberty in Christ". But, with fire in his eyes, he repeated the same words with a vengeance, and we were all very shook, and, I believed him. Well, that was '85 I believe, and the lid was just about to blow off of the whole damned thing as he spoke.
Interesting, huh? I have shared this story here before, but, I know that there are a few new folks here these days since I last shared it...
I was your younger corps brother (12th) and have been involved in music a lot, even in the way, so I thank you for this post on BGL. It answers some questions I personally had about this type of thing. I sure wish I could have been there sitting next to you to observe his reaction. I thought at the time that music was pretty good, maybe not perceiving deeply enough how it came accross.
Anybody have a sample of Takit? It was before my time, but I have heard them mentioned more than a couple of times by other people. I'd be interested to hear it.
Ya know, I used to have a "bootleg" cassette tape of Takit, and it was by far the best recording of them, in my not so humble opinion. It was a live concert under the big top, and it was excellent. There was even a very long drum solo on it by David Garibaldi which was superb. It was an awesome concert, and they didn't hold back. Excellent music, very badass. Later, Takit made an "official" recording of their songs in a studio, and it was sold through The Way Bookstore. But to me, it was a very "sanitized" version of their music, and the impact just wasn't the same as when they played live, and in particular, when they played live on that tape I had.
Awhile back, on a music thread here, someone offered to make me a CD of the Takit album, and I was overjoyed when it came to my house via the US Mail. But when I played it, it was that sanitized version, and not what I was expecting. But whoever that was who sent me that tape, THANK YOU!!
Maybe Java Jane, if you start a thread callled "Takit" and make that request, you could get someone to help you out. Me, I have moved twice since I got that CD, and have no idea where it is. I liked them alot fer sher...
Since this thread is entitled simply "B.G. Leonard", I think that there is some lattitude here for me to deviate from the plaigerism(sp?) thing. And so, a short stow-ree:
When my wife and I were at the Rock the year that we had a memorial for VPW after he died, I happened to be privy to a very interesting situation that involved Rev. B.G Leonard his own self. A good friend of my wife and myself happened to be the "guest buddy of Mr. Leonard. She was/is an Eight Corps grad by the name of Carolynn. B.G. had been invited to that ROA/Memorial for VPW as one of VP's teachers you see, and so, he came. And one day, as Carolynn, Mrs. Lingo and I sat for lunch with Rev. Leonard in the "lunch tent" (his wife was not present), all of the sudden, after the greetings and the pleasantries, Rev. Leonard just plain went off! We had been eating and enjoying each other's company, while listening to the music of Takit while they practiced to get ready for the evening's entertainment. I was a bit uncomfortable that this older gentleman from another generation had to listen to the "piped in" music of Takit, because I knew that he probably did not approve at all. And sure enough, at one point, he slammed his fist down and said vehemently: "This ministry will not stand! That music is the music of Baal! There is no way that this ministry will stand before God!" And, being the good little apologist and newly ordained Way Rev that I was, tried to defend the ministry with some weak excuse about we believers having "liberty in Christ". But, with fire in his eyes, he repeated the same words with a vengeance, and we were all very shook, and, I believed him. Well, that was '85 I believe, and the lid was just about to blow off of the whole damned thing as he spoke.
Interesting, huh? I have shared this story here before, but, I know that there are a few new folks here these days since I last shared it...
Jonny Lingo,
Spoke with an innie recently. They met B.G. Leonard in 1980. They said to B.G. "So, you're a part of Dr. Wierwille's legacy, huh?"
B.G. replied, "No, he's a part of mine."
The innie didn't think anything of it then (1980, I wasn't even born yet). But since I told them your story above, they've suddenly started remembering things.
Ya know, I used to have a "bootleg" cassette tape of Takit, and it was by far the best recording of them, in my not so humble opinion. It was a live concert under the big top, and it was excellent. There was even a very long drum solo on it by David Garibaldi which was superb. It was an awesome concert, and they didn't hold back. Excellent music, very badass. Later, Takit made an "official" recording of their songs in a studio, and it was sold through The Way Bookstore. But to me, it was a very "sanitized" version of their music, and the impact just wasn't the same as when they played live, and in particular, when they played live on that tape I had.
Awhile back, on a music thread here, someone offered to make me a CD of the Takit album, and I was overjoyed when it came to my house via the US Mail. But when I played it, it was that sanitized version, and not what I was expecting. But whoever that was who sent me that tape, THANK YOU!!
Maybe Java Jane, if you start a thread callled "Takit" and make that request, you could get someone to help you out. Me, I have moved twice since I got that CD, and have no idea where it is. I liked them alot fer sher...
I agree with your asessment of live Takit vs. recorded. I thought atht the studio cassette was pretty weak, but I thought that they were great when i saw them in Cheyenne and Minneapolis in 1979 & '80
Ya know, I used to have a "bootleg" cassette tape of Takit, and it was by far the best recording of them, in my not so humble opinion. It was a live concert under the big top, and it was excellent. There was even a very long drum solo on it by David Garibaldi which was superb. It was an awesome concert, and they didn't hold back. Excellent music, very badass. Later, Takit made an "official" recording of their songs in a studio, and it was sold through The Way Bookstore. But to me, it was a very "sanitized" version of their music, and the impact just wasn't the same as when they played live, and in particular, when they played live on that tape I had.
Awhile back, on a music thread here, someone offered to make me a CD of the Takit album, and I was overjoyed when it came to my house via the US Mail. But when I played it, it was that sanitized version, and not what I was expecting. But whoever that was who sent me that tape, THANK YOU!!
Maybe Java Jane, if you start a thread callled "Takit" and make that request, you could get someone to help you out. Me, I have moved twice since I got that CD, and have no idea where it is. I liked them alot fer sher...
I agree with your asessment of live Takit vs. recorded. I thought atht the studio cassette was pretty weak, but I thought that they were great when i saw them in Cheyenne and Minneapolis in 1979 & '80
I agree with your asessment of live Takit vs. recorded. I thought atht the studio cassette was pretty weak, but I thought that they were great when i saw them in Cheyenne and Minneapolis in 1979 & '80
This is an old thread. I was thinking of B G Leonard for some reason and I remembered reading about the incident below when he was at The Rock in 1985. I remember him being there but didn’t get to see him personally. But what I wanted to mention about his visit is how Martindale blew up about Corps flocking to BG. Obviously he was jealous of the attention B G was taking from him.
Anyway I just found a book that I downloaded into my Kindle about B G by Phyllis Tryon, published by Steve Sann. Entitled Show Me the Miracles: The Life of B. G Leonard. I was looking for Gifts of the Spirit but couldn’t find it.
His ministry still runs his class and I’d love to take it. Just started the book about his life. And to think we elevated Wierwille over this guy. The more I read books by different scholars and seek out teachings I realize we were like hamsters on the wheel of PFAL over and over again. A research ministry? I think not.
Steve Sann was the Limb guy in Montana in 1985 when BG was in the State running his class in Helena. It seems to me Sann had all the corp in the state take BGs class. The rest of us twiggies would come to Helena on Sundays and go to BGs public fellowship.
The thing rhat stood out to me was how jerky he made the hymns. BG said he got possessed once, while singing hymns nornally, so he added sudden stops in the middle of the verse. It became so distracting to me.
A teaching that stood out was he prophesied that JC would come back in the year 2000. That cinched it for me he was a false prophet since it did not come to pass. Not that it matters to me today.
Sann was so excited about BG coming to the ROA that summer. From other comments on GSC, that didn’t turn out so well.
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Ham
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Bolshevik
Sweet. Can't wait for them to finish the site.
Do you think anyone there is irritated at VPW?
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indyrobb
Thank You!!!!
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TOMMYZ
Bolshevik, Leonard's book on healing has a preface warning against plagiarism.
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indyrobb
I Guess all that time VP was "working the Word, hour upon hour, up to about 3 to 4 in the morning" he was copying other peoples works. We dare do that to them-- we would get a letter from their lawyers. or worse!!!
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Pete
Bolshevik
I wrote to the B. G. Leonard group about the VPW plagiarism thing. They did not address VPW specifically, but sent the following reply (which effectively does not lend any support to VPW but seems to imply by omission that his actions were not approved) :
01/08/03
"Dear Brother ******
Greetings to you in The Name of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!
Enclosed is a gift of one of Rev. B. G. Leonard's books (With other information that we provide here from Christian Training Centre of Texas) on the subject "Gospel of Grace". On the eighth page from the front of the book with the heading that says, "AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE RE REV. B. G. LEONARD'S BOOKS FROM THE AUTHOR TO YOU" Brother Leonard makes it clear concerning the issue of plagiarism and what God's Word says about this matter! I, Sister Evelyn, Mrs B. G. Leonard, continue to fulfill this same fact and truth. If you are interested in any more of Brother Leonard's works that God gave him which he walked in throughout his life in the ministry please feel free to contact us.
God bless you for your interest in furthering the work of The Lord Jesus Christ!
Sincerely in God's Love,
President - Rev. Evelyn T-Leonard (Mrs B. G. Leonard)"
The message makes it clear that B. G. took a very strong line against those who plagiarised his books.
He quotes the following bible verse:
Jeremiah 23:30
"Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour."
He also states that this has happened "from the first appearance of my books" (the book "Gifts of the Spirit" was first published in 1949).
You might also like to consider whether the following prophecy has come to pass upon those who stole his words:
Jeremiah 23:40
"And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame which shall not be forgotten."
Scary, huh!
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Bolshevik
Hmmm. . . .
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Belle
Thanks, Pete. :)
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GrouchoMarxJr
...Thus...the GreaseSpot Cafe!...
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J0nny Ling0
Since this thread is entitled simply "B.G. Leonard", I think that there is some lattitude here for me to deviate from the plaigerism(sp?) thing. And so, a short stow-ree:
When my wife and I were at the Rock the year that we had a memorial for VPW after he died, I happened to be privy to a very interesting situation that involved Rev. B.G Leonard his own self. A good friend of my wife and myself happened to be the "guest buddy of Mr. Leonard. She was/is an Eight Corps grad by the name of Carolynn. B.G. had been invited to that ROA/Memorial for VPW as one of VP's teachers you see, and so, he came. And one day, as Carolynn, Mrs. Lingo and I sat for lunch with Rev. Leonard in the "lunch tent" (his wife was not present), all of the sudden, after the greetings and the pleasantries, Rev. Leonard just plain went off! We had been eating and enjoying each other's company, while listening to the music of Takit while they practiced to get ready for the evening's entertainment. I was a bit uncomfortable that this older gentleman from another generation had to listen to the "piped in" music of Takit, because I knew that he probably did not approve at all. And sure enough, at one point, he slammed his fist down and said vehemently: "This ministry will not stand! That music is the music of Baal! There is no way that this ministry will stand before God!" And, being the good little apologist and newly ordained Way Rev that I was, tried to defend the ministry with some weak excuse about we believers having "liberty in Christ". But, with fire in his eyes, he repeated the same words with a vengeance, and we were all very shook, and, I believed him. Well, that was '85 I believe, and the lid was just about to blow off of the whole damned thing as he spoke.
Interesting, huh? I have shared this story here before, but, I know that there are a few new folks here these days since I last shared it...
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livininit
Hey Jonny,
I was your younger corps brother (12th) and have been involved in music a lot, even in the way, so I thank you for this post on BGL. It answers some questions I personally had about this type of thing. I sure wish I could have been there sitting next to you to observe his reaction. I thought at the time that music was pretty good, maybe not perceiving deeply enough how it came accross.
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JavaJane
Anybody have a sample of Takit? It was before my time, but I have heard them mentioned more than a couple of times by other people. I'd be interested to hear it.
Thanks!
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J0nny Ling0
Ya know, I used to have a "bootleg" cassette tape of Takit, and it was by far the best recording of them, in my not so humble opinion. It was a live concert under the big top, and it was excellent. There was even a very long drum solo on it by David Garibaldi which was superb. It was an awesome concert, and they didn't hold back. Excellent music, very badass. Later, Takit made an "official" recording of their songs in a studio, and it was sold through The Way Bookstore. But to me, it was a very "sanitized" version of their music, and the impact just wasn't the same as when they played live, and in particular, when they played live on that tape I had.
Awhile back, on a music thread here, someone offered to make me a CD of the Takit album, and I was overjoyed when it came to my house via the US Mail. But when I played it, it was that sanitized version, and not what I was expecting. But whoever that was who sent me that tape, THANK YOU!!
Maybe Java Jane, if you start a thread callled "Takit" and make that request, you could get someone to help you out. Me, I have moved twice since I got that CD, and have no idea where it is. I liked them alot fer sher...
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Bolshevik
Jonny Lingo,
Spoke with an innie recently. They met B.G. Leonard in 1980. They said to B.G. "So, you're a part of Dr. Wierwille's legacy, huh?"
B.G. replied, "No, he's a part of mine."
The innie didn't think anything of it then (1980, I wasn't even born yet). But since I told them your story above, they've suddenly started remembering things.
Thanks for the story Jonny.
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Nottawayfer
Very interesting and funny! I bet VPW was spinning in his grave over that one!!
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dmiller
If he weren't dead -- I wish he could.
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Oakspear
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dmiller
Is this in the right thread??? (Just curious!) :)
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Oakspear
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dmiller
I thought so!! (Hey -- say Hi to Reikilady for us). :)
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outandabout
This is an old thread. I was thinking of B G Leonard for some reason and I remembered reading about the incident below when he was at The Rock in 1985. I remember him being there but didn’t get to see him personally. But what I wanted to mention about his visit is how Martindale blew up about Corps flocking to BG. Obviously he was jealous of the attention B G was taking from him.
Anyway I just found a book that I downloaded into my Kindle about B G by Phyllis Tryon, published by Steve Sann. Entitled Show Me the Miracles: The Life of B. G Leonard. I was looking for Gifts of the Spirit but couldn’t find it.
His ministry still runs his class and I’d love to take it. Just started the book about his life. And to think we elevated Wierwille over this guy. The more I read books by different scholars and seek out teachings I realize we were like hamsters on the wheel of PFAL over and over again. A research ministry? I think not.
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chockfull
I get the impression BG was a very loving local minister and took care of his local group very well. He wasn’t pushing a worldwide platform.
Vic with the grandiose plans tried to steal that.
But nothing replaces what BG put into his local community day after day and you can’t steal that kind of impact.
Too bad sociopaths can’t understand that.
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Stayed Too Long
Steve Sann was the Limb guy in Montana in 1985 when BG was in the State running his class in Helena. It seems to me Sann had all the corp in the state take BGs class. The rest of us twiggies would come to Helena on Sundays and go to BGs public fellowship.
The thing rhat stood out to me was how jerky he made the hymns. BG said he got possessed once, while singing hymns nornally, so he added sudden stops in the middle of the verse. It became so distracting to me.
A teaching that stood out was he prophesied that JC would come back in the year 2000. That cinched it for me he was a false prophet since it did not come to pass. Not that it matters to me today.
Sann was so excited about BG coming to the ROA that summer. From other comments on GSC, that didn’t turn out so well.
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