I haven't had time to read all of the posts in this thread so I may become unpopular for this.
As your post was honest, it was not really necessary. I don't really understand why you wanted to tell us all about your offense, especially considering the number of women on this list that were such victims.
But I am drawn to think about the fact that when I was 9 my mother's cousing ONLY FONDLED me. Now he's going to jail because he got an 8 year old to give him a blow job. Yes as a child I recovered "nicely" on the surface. I always smiled, always enjoyed my friends and mananged to function with a lower self esteem and many drawbacks in the sexual realm. It took me years to enjoy sex freely. But I was in my late 30's by that time. Don't kid yourself, she will have long term issues resulting from what you did to her and you should be concerned for her well being and possibly even pay for any counseling her insurance won't cover. That's how I fully overcame my molestation. At 39 I began seeing a counselor and now I finally feel fully recovered at 43.
I don't mean to bring you down here but I don't think that in your shoes I would announce such a thing. My prayer for you is that this temptation gets under control and that you even consider counseling for yourself. God has already forgiven you, But I think you downplay the gravity of your actions.
I can understand your outrage and hurt that this brings up for you as a victim of abuse. However, I do not think that you are being asked to compromise your safety or the safety of your children. No one expects you to invite a pedophile over for dinner. What is being asked is to allow his story to come out into the open. Pedophilia is a form of psychosis. Until recently most psychotics were relegated to institutions without much hope of life beyond the walls. Now thanks to advances in treatment, many are able to lead productive lives and are contributing citizens. To continue to heap shame on the mentally ill only forestalls the day that POSSIBLY such an advance might be forthcoming in their treatment.
This isn't about outrage and hurt for me as a victim of abuse, you are reading into it or I am not communicating clearly. This is about healthy boundaries.
This isn't about heaping shame on the mentally ill, you know very well I have loved ones who are mentally ill. This is about healthy boundaries.
No, no one expects me to invite this pedophile over for dinner. No, this person cannot hurt me or my children directly in any way shape or form. But this is NOT the proper forum, this place which is so full of people who have issues stemming from sexual abuse, this place so full of people who have boundary issues stemming from years in TWI.
I will not participate in any way shape or form in watching a predator be given free reign and open access to prey on people under the guise of love and forgiveness. This isn't about love and forgiveness, it is about healthy boundaries.
Imagine this, Oen, imagine just one of our loving, compassionate and empathetic posters allows this man into their life. They buy his story, they forgive him. Slowly, over months, maybe even a year or two, this man gains their trust and eventually entry to their physical life. Imagine this poster has children . . . even if he didn't molest one of their children, many states now have laws about "failure to protect". In other words, if a poster here allowed this man to have contact with their child, depending on what state they live in, said poster could lose custody of their child for failing to protect them from a known sex offender.
You know why such laws exist? Because our government expects parents to do their job and protect their children from such people. Our state also recognizes some people, for many many reasons, fail to protect their children from known sex offenders.
I am only saying that just maybe if a person has the courage to make the first few timid steps toward owning up to his wrongdoing, why shouldn't we be more encouraging for him to make the next step? I am aware that it's much easier to shame than to journey beside such a person.
by his own words, his courage to make these steps was cooerced. Someone, be it a Greasespot administrator, a probation officer, or some other law enforcement official REQUIRED that he post his crime if he were to be allowed to remain here.
O asked, "I am only saying that just maybe if a person has the courage to make the first few timid steps toward owning up to his wrongdoing, why shouldn't we be more encouraging for him to make the next step? I am aware that it's much easier to shame than to journey beside such a person."
Because if this guy has even a tiny relapse, it could be MY daughter next and I just won't take that chance. I've survived way more of his type offense than I care to tell about and I live to prevent my children from having to become survivors of it too. My son is 26 - he's never had any sex of any kind with any one that he didn't want to.
My daughter is 10.
That's why I'm not encouraging for him at all in any way.
Edited to add that I had only read as far as O's post when I posted this - I hadn't read abi's response. I might not have posted if I had read it - it covers what I'm saying as well.
And that I have a brother that may have molested 2 of my nieces 18 years ago. Our childhood was rampant with molestation because we were unsupervised children. I'd love to believe that anothen and my brother could control those urges, but we know the stats show otherwise and I won't risk a child's innocence when I can help prevent it.
What I have learned and views I realize I hold so far (outside of my own weaknesses) is that this place is to help heal the adults that were abused. I just don't think children should be allowed to read this forum at all unless the adult is sitting there prepared to explain our reactions and understandings and the trolls that come and go. And that we welcome the abused but we don't have the same feelings about the abuser, and that is bigger than this man that the more I read the more I see has shown no true remorse, and it saddens me to have had to learn those boundaries were part of our forum.
I can not see any benifit in engaging this person in conversation.
and the whole forgivness christian spin... is what is making me angry.
UM why?
in the days of when the bible was written a women or man was stoned to death for cheating on their husband or wife with another consenting adult!!!]
and you think it is some how Gods will we even try to understand this creep?
he would have been dead even speaking such crap.
and you know what all this confession is good for the soul stuff is just insane.
again why? So he/she can stroke herself with the attention he will not get anywhere eles in life?
call it possession call it mental illnes title it anything you like it is what it is to me and that is conversation about an idea i do not need in my life.
but i get why these people get away with what they do and how they live because some have a need to understand .
a need to be a fool and think they are higher power kind of spiritual person who can overcome all evil with love.
the week of easter i think of our Saviour hanging on a tree post so I do not have to battle evil anymore or understand it.
as far as boundarys the idea of "jumpers" is one thing yet consider some do not have boundaries in their life for anyone to jump, again a learned idealogy in our culture of tolerance and victimizatiom .
What I have learned and views I realize I hold so far (outside of my own weaknesses) is that this place is to help heal the adults that were abused. I just don't think children should be allowed to read this forum at all unless the adult is sitting there prepared to explain our reactions and understandings and the trolls that come and go. And that we welcome the abused but we don't have the same feelings about the abuser, and that is bigger than this man that the more I read the more I see has shown no true remorse, and it saddens me to have had to learn those boundaries were part of our forum.
I am not certain there is a set rule for these forums regarding an abuser - I guess Paw or one of the mods would have to speak to that. Likewise there are different types, levels, and definitions of abuse. This is the first time in all my years at greasespot I have seen a confession of this nature. I don't even know if any of this was prompted by the mods and/or if they have told Anoth he cannot come back.
Before I leave for awhile which is necessary for my own mental health due to allowing this to make me sick I wanted to state again:
I don't think this man handled this right.
I question his remorse more now than I did when I first posted.
God is bigger than we can understand if we believe it or not.
I would never allow someone that abused to be with my child if God was standing in plain view next to them and I knew they had gotten His forgiveness for it.
The abused are welcomed but I don't believe for the greater part we want the abuser to post with us here.
I want this to be what it is an adult forum and not be called a family web site, since the first day I posted here it has not been a family web site, twi abuses to us were not for the greater part what children should be reading without a parent at their side. If we want a site for our children there are hundreds of them out there to pick from.
as far as boundarys the idea of "jumpers" is one thing yet consider some do not have boundaries in their life for anyone to jump, again a learned idealogy in our culture of tolerance and victimizatiom .
Also true, Pond. But I will not pretend I understand or know anything much about another poster's boundaries or lack thereof, beyond what I may observe in this oftentimes one dimensional forum. On the other hand, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone who will molest a child will encroach upon another person's boundaries.
I am not certain there is a set rule for these forums regarding an abuser - I guess Paw or one of the mods would have to speak to that. Likewise there are different types, levels, and definitions of abuse. This is the first time in all my years at greasespot I have seen a confession of this nature. I don't even know if any of this was prompted by the mods and/or if they have told Anoth he cannot come back.
I posted without seeing you dear.
I think that is what has been very eye-opening about all this because it is the first time anything of this nature has been posted that I have seen also. And I think it has shown me we can't accommodate the abuser, even though this is a poor example of a person being truly remorseful, it still shows we can't handle them here like we can the ones abused. IMHO.
Kathy, he doesn't seem to have true remorse I agree. He seems to want to downplay his actions by saying the girl seems to have recovered nicely when the truth is this will plague her for the rest of her life and he should be concerned about what will come of her in adulthood and marriage. How she will view men in the future.
My question is how many other instances of "crossing the line" there were, and no matter how horny he or any other person might be, we usually attend to matters through masterbation or finding someone our age that we become intimate with. But the object of our affections are naturally someone our age (roughly). Desire toward a young child is un-natural and absolutely in need of some type of counsel.
I am not saying deliverance isn't available, but many don't recover. We have seen it in the Way. We saw men who are now in jail, corps grads who helped themselves to some little girl. My cousin was a repeat offender himself.
When we were kids we got a known child molester in the class. We even let him stay in our home which caused my father's business to suffer because of his past. Oh but the Word delivers right? Not in his case. He was hauled off to jail for doing it again, and this man was sick enough that he would do it to little boys. My brothers were at risk and my mom was wise enough to protect them. But the guy allowed his "urges" to get the better of him. I will never trust a known child offender around my children it was once suggested that my cousin take my kids on his boat to which I quickly replied no. no matter how "strong in the Word" they present themselve I will NOT trust them. I may sound heartless but we are talking about the lives of our future, innocent little children who tend to trust an adult they know. It doesn't seem like we should just trust those that have "crossed that line" because they confess their sins.
Just like the judicial system never treats them as trustworthy nor do I.
I think that is what has been very eye-opening about all this because it is the first time anything of this nature has been posted that I have seen also. And I think it has shown me we can't accommodate the abuser, even though this is a poor example of a person being truly remorseful, it still shows we can't handle them here like we can the ones abused. IMHO.
I have to leave now.
I can't help but wonder why you would want to accomodate an abuser, Kathy. Really. Okay, someone who was a drunk and physically abused his spouse, but no longer drinks, no longer behaves violently, who is HONESTLY remorseful for his behavior - I think such a person could be accomodated.
Someone who was a leader in TWI - who kicked people out for violating the whimsical and often changing doctrine of TWI, who gave face meltings etc., but who has apologized and is truly remorseful and changed - again I think such a person could be and has been accomodated.
Rapists and pedophiles are in another category all by themselves. They have illnesses that our society and our professionals do not know how to treat. They are dangerous people. Part of what makes them so dangerous is because they know exactly how to play on the emotions of people just like you, Kathy. People who have already have issues knowing and keeping their own boundaries (not an accusation, simply a restatement of what you said earlier).
There is not a single person at the cafe, IMO, who is qualified to help a rapist or pedophile. There are, however, a number of people here who could easily become the victim of one, and a number who already have been.
If this place exists at all to help people, then let us help those we are actually capable of helping. Lets not further expose people to the very abuses and abusers who may have already caused them so much pain.
Recently in the state of VA, a man was sentenced to prison for a rape he committed over 20 years ago. As a part of his 12 step program he wrote the woman he had raped at a frat party years before, apologizing to her and leaving it up to her as to how to handle the letter and his apology. She took the letter to the police, and he was sentenced to jail time. THIS offender did it half way right, he at least took steps with the VICTIM, and let her decide.
If Anothen is TRULY interested in coming clean and attaining forgiveness there is really only one option (IN MY OPINION,) and that would be to drive himself to the closest police department and turn himself in. In most states nowadays, the statute of limitations runs out in a set amount of years from the DATE OF DISCOVERY, not from the date the offense occurs.
The way I see it, there aren't too many legal and moral options for this situations............do the right thing, hmmmmmmm.
Radar
***here is the edit:
Oh yeah, as Abi said, I am not qualified or trained to give advice to a rapist, or sex offender.........this is just how I see it.
Let me say again. No one is suggesting that you put your children at risk by letting anothen or any other pedophile have access to your life or children.
I'm tired. Let's just say that I am not as comfortable as you are to label someone as unredeemable as you. I'm done with this thread. I am done with Greasespot. I have nothing to say here from this point on.
I have no more need for the heartache.
I am out of step with most here on philosophical terms.
Kathy, he doesn't seem to have true remorse I agree. He seems to want to downplay his actions by saying the girl seems to have recovered nicely when the truth is this will plague her for the rest of her life and he should be concerned about what will come of her in adulthood and marriage. How she will view men in the future.
My question is how many other instances of "crossing the line" there were, and no matter how horny he or any other person might be, we usually attend to matters through masterbation or finding someone our age that we become intimate with. But the object of our affections are naturally someone our age (roughly). Desire toward a young child is un-natural and absolutely in need of some type of counsel.
I am not saying deliverance isn't available, but many don't recover. We have seen it in the Way. We saw men who are now in jail, corps grads who helped themselves to some little girl. My cousin was a repeat offender himself.
When we were kids we got a known child molester in the class. We even let him stay in our home which caused my father's business to suffer because of his past. Oh but the Word delivers right? Not in his case. He was hauled off to jail for doing it again, and this man was sick enough that he would do it to little boys. My brothers were at risk and my mom was wise enough to protect them. But the guy allowed his "urges" to get the better of him. I will never trust a known child offender around my children it was once suggested that my cousin take my kids on his boat to which I quickly replied no. no matter how "strong in the Word" they present themselve I will NOT trust them. I may sound heartless but we are talking about the lives of our future, innocent little children who tend to trust an adult they know. It doesn't seem like we should just trust those that have "crossed that line" because they confess their sins.
Just like the judicial system never treats them as trustworthy nor do I.
I can't help but wonder why you would want to accomodate an abuser, Kathy. Really. Okay, someone who was a drunk and physically abused his spouse, but no longer drinks, no longer behaves violently, who is HONESTLY remorseful for his behavior - I think such a person could be accomodated.
Someone who was a leader in TWI - who kicked people out for violating the whimsical and often changing doctrine of TWI, who gave face meltings etc., but who has apologized and is truly remorseful and changed - again I think such a person could be and has been accomodated.
Rapists and pedophiles are in another category all by themselves. They have illnesses that our society and our professionals do not know how to treat. They are dangerous people. Part of what makes them so dangerous is because they know exactly how to play on the emotions of people just like you, Kathy. People who have already have issues knowing and keeping their own boundaries (not an accusation, simply a restatement of what you said earlier).
There is not a single person at the cafe, IMO, who is qualified to help a rapist or pedophile. There are, however, a number of people here who could easily become the victim of one, and a number who already have been.
If this place exists at all to help people, then let us help those we are actually capable of helping. Lets not further expose people to the very abuses and abusers who may have already caused them so much pain.
.
Abi, I spent some time in a store at lunch just looking at the cool things for my head and all the while this Muslim woman kept cutting me off at the pass almost as if she were there to deliberately try and steal the joy I was working towards finding. I finally gave her a look that told her if she didn't cut it out I was going to rip the veil from her head and shove it where the sun didn't shine and she backed off.
I knew then I needed to really pace it back a few notches.
Maybe it really is that simple, this just isn't the place for the abuser to interact with us. It's too painful for us to have to hear their words and be able to see their lack of remorse, and even if they had genuine remorse I don't know that all of us would be able to see it due to our personal experiences and pain.
I wanted to believe that anyone could be welcomed, hell that even Craig could post as himself and be allowed to engage in conversation with us, my heart can't even hate him.
I need to think of all this more, I can see I have some boundary understanding way beyond what I knew I had.
Abi, Bow et. al.
Let me say again. No one is suggesting that you put your children at risk by letting anothen or any other pedophile have access to your life or children.
I'm tired. Let's just say that I am not as comfortable as you are to label someone as unredeemable as you. I'm done with this thread. I am done with Greasespot. I have nothing to say here from this point on.
I have no more need for the heartache.
I am out of step with most here on philosophical terms.
I need a life and it isn't to be found here.
Peaceout!!!
Robin, your voice has always been one of compassion and reason and I personally am pained deeply to think I will never hear your words again.
Abi, I spent some time in a store at lunch just looking at the cool things for my head and all the while this Muslim woman kept cutting me off at the pass almost as if she were there to deliberately try and steal the joy I was working towards finding. I finally gave her a look that told her if she didn't cut it out I was going to rip the veil from her head and shove it where the sun didn't shine and she backed off.
I knew then I needed to really pace it back a few notches.
Maybe it really is that simple, this just isn't the place for the abuser to interact with us. It's too painful for us to have to hear their words and be able to see their lack of remorse, and even if they had genuine remorse I don't know that all of us would be able to see it due to our personal experiences and pain.
I wanted to believe that anyone could be welcomed, hell that even Craig could post as himself and be allowed to engage in conversation with us, my heart can't even hate him.
I need to think of all this more, I can see I have some boundary understanding way beyond what I knew I had.
Kathy,
The only proper place for a sexual predator to interact with any victim - his own or another - is in the relative safety of a professional's office.
I say this completely unhardened. I have gotten slammed in the past for wanting to offer forgiveness when it wasn't asked for. I have said more than once that I see forgiveness in two different "slots." There is the forgiveness that comes from God and the forgiveness that comes from the person wronged.
I never meant to imply that any one in particular was validating Anothen - simply that the mere discussion of this has a validating effect. He hasn't posted in days - yet here we are discussing all this. Imagine him sitting back and "watching the show." so to speak.
BTW - has anyone considered that there have been at least three new posters recently that have started threads, caused some flurry, and then never returned?
Frankly, unless I have met this person face to face, seen the whites of their eyes, then I have no idea if this person is real or not. I have no idea if the story is real or not. Just suppose we there are some here "forgiving" for something they didn't really do. Suppose the real offense is the banter and angst that is being caused here. Forgive? Sure. Trust? Earn it, Buddy!
It isn't being hardened to protect one's heart. Wise as serpents and harmless as doves, is my motto. I'll be kind and listen - from over here where I can't be cornered, Thank you very much. If you do corner me or one of mine - I'm striking!
Now, do what you need to do for you and your heart. I would like to not see this emotion dragged up unless real healing can be accomplished.
I'll stay away from this thread for a while - at least no more posting unless a red flag presents itself.
All I can say is that my radar has been activated and the sirens are going off.
I'm working through it all trying not to feel as if I have to give my compassion away to protect me, I'm working on finding where I fit, I have been given plenty of wise words to consider, I just feel sadness in my heart due it all and I can't explain why. Nor am I saying that anyone here said I had to be hard rather than compassionate.
James Taylor is playing in the background and I'm on the roof in my heart looking down trying to find my safe place and still love me.
i feel we never really know a person, just bits and pieces they want to share. the surprise we learn from our family and friends is what life is really.
A person can be on this forum for a very long time as one name, and become what they may consider intimate with other posters, "real relationships and friends" then come into the same forum and reveal a fact of their life like this and be very unhappy with the reaction.
that would be hurtful but also very very possible.
this is an internet forum everything here is fantasy, maybe not you ,the reader, you may cry ,but im me ,Im honest, I am who I am ok that is great, just do not assume it is true of all on these types of PUBLIC forums.
i still think people put way to much stock in what is said about anyone on a public domain forum.
In our everyday life with people we often become shocked to hear some news about someone we know well(so we thought) in this world of internet it is double or triple fold everything here is just fantasy.
maybe your really you, maybe not , this form of communication is not healthy for intimate relationships!
now abi meant her beloved in a chat room I get many relationships spin from chat room but they grow into REAL relationship with out the screen of who are you and questions are answered in real time and place.
not the same as here on a forum a person is who they want you to think they are truth and real life has little or nothing to do with it if they chose .
it is safe it can be dangerous and more than anything it just isnt real.
for robin to get so upset Im very sorry, but i am here typing so i must be bored or lonely too... but try to keep the perspective of this is what it is.
a public internet forum , fantasy world where in each individual TELLS you who they want to be .
me ?
Im 5 10 blonde hair that shines like the sun I wear a size two and my hubby treats me like a quenn I have a million dollars...im famous and im very very happy everyday.
one time i posted on the prayer forum about my kid's broken foot or some broken bone
anyway some guy emailed me and told me he was praying for my son and that he had been in the way ministry and that's where he saw the prayer deal
then he sent me pictures of himself with a cast on (he said he was in his early 20's i think). i can't remember. i'll have to see if i saved his emails
THEN he asked me to send him pictures of my son with his cast on. i swear to god
and guess what his name was. Chris Bateson
i honestly felt he was making a joke (to himself) and emailing me as Chris Bait Son
anyway, i never wrote him
oh yeah, the pics of him in "his" cast never showed his face
one time i posted on the prayer forum about my kid's broken foot or some broken bone
anyway some guy emailed me and told me he was praying for my son and that he had been in the way ministry and that's where he saw the prayer deal
then he sent me pictures of himself with a cast on (he said he was in his early 20's i think). i can't remember. i'll have to see if i saved his emails
THEN he asked me to send him pictures of my son with his cast on. i swear to god
and guess what his name was. Chris Bateson
i honestly felt he was making a joke (to himself) and emailing me as Chris Bait Son
anyway, i never wrote him
oh yeah, the pics of him in "his" cast never showed his face
weird, right ?
My goodness. I'm so glad you saw he was a sick puppy.
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MATILDA
I see you, InvisibleDan...and, bottom line, agree.
Anothen could change his name to Asomethen, or Aanythen. He has gotten all he can from this 6 page purge.
This batter is well mixed now, and probably needs no more stirring under this heading and a nothing can change it.
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FreeAtLast
I haven't had time to read all of the posts in this thread so I may become unpopular for this.
As your post was honest, it was not really necessary. I don't really understand why you wanted to tell us all about your offense, especially considering the number of women on this list that were such victims.
But I am drawn to think about the fact that when I was 9 my mother's cousing ONLY FONDLED me. Now he's going to jail because he got an 8 year old to give him a blow job. Yes as a child I recovered "nicely" on the surface. I always smiled, always enjoyed my friends and mananged to function with a lower self esteem and many drawbacks in the sexual realm. It took me years to enjoy sex freely. But I was in my late 30's by that time. Don't kid yourself, she will have long term issues resulting from what you did to her and you should be concerned for her well being and possibly even pay for any counseling her insurance won't cover. That's how I fully overcame my molestation. At 39 I began seeing a counselor and now I finally feel fully recovered at 43.
I don't mean to bring you down here but I don't think that in your shoes I would announce such a thing. My prayer for you is that this temptation gets under control and that you even consider counseling for yourself. God has already forgiven you, But I think you downplay the gravity of your actions.
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Abigail
This isn't about heaping shame on the mentally ill, you know very well I have loved ones who are mentally ill. This is about healthy boundaries.
No, no one expects me to invite this pedophile over for dinner. No, this person cannot hurt me or my children directly in any way shape or form. But this is NOT the proper forum, this place which is so full of people who have issues stemming from sexual abuse, this place so full of people who have boundary issues stemming from years in TWI.
I will not participate in any way shape or form in watching a predator be given free reign and open access to prey on people under the guise of love and forgiveness. This isn't about love and forgiveness, it is about healthy boundaries.
Imagine this, Oen, imagine just one of our loving, compassionate and empathetic posters allows this man into their life. They buy his story, they forgive him. Slowly, over months, maybe even a year or two, this man gains their trust and eventually entry to their physical life. Imagine this poster has children . . . even if he didn't molest one of their children, many states now have laws about "failure to protect". In other words, if a poster here allowed this man to have contact with their child, depending on what state they live in, said poster could lose custody of their child for failing to protect them from a known sex offender.
You know why such laws exist? Because our government expects parents to do their job and protect their children from such people. Our state also recognizes some people, for many many reasons, fail to protect their children from known sex offenders.
by his own words, his courage to make these steps was cooerced. Someone, be it a Greasespot administrator, a probation officer, or some other law enforcement official REQUIRED that he post his crime if he were to be allowed to remain here.
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bowtwi
O asked, "I am only saying that just maybe if a person has the courage to make the first few timid steps toward owning up to his wrongdoing, why shouldn't we be more encouraging for him to make the next step? I am aware that it's much easier to shame than to journey beside such a person."
Because if this guy has even a tiny relapse, it could be MY daughter next and I just won't take that chance. I've survived way more of his type offense than I care to tell about and I live to prevent my children from having to become survivors of it too. My son is 26 - he's never had any sex of any kind with any one that he didn't want to.
My daughter is 10.
That's why I'm not encouraging for him at all in any way.
Edited to add that I had only read as far as O's post when I posted this - I hadn't read abi's response. I might not have posted if I had read it - it covers what I'm saying as well.
And that I have a brother that may have molested 2 of my nieces 18 years ago. Our childhood was rampant with molestation because we were unsupervised children. I'd love to believe that anothen and my brother could control those urges, but we know the stats show otherwise and I won't risk a child's innocence when I can help prevent it.
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ChattyKathy
What I have learned and views I realize I hold so far (outside of my own weaknesses) is that this place is to help heal the adults that were abused. I just don't think children should be allowed to read this forum at all unless the adult is sitting there prepared to explain our reactions and understandings and the trolls that come and go. And that we welcome the abused but we don't have the same feelings about the abuser, and that is bigger than this man that the more I read the more I see has shown no true remorse, and it saddens me to have had to learn those boundaries were part of our forum.
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pond
I can not see any benifit in engaging this person in conversation.
and the whole forgivness christian spin... is what is making me angry.
UM why?
in the days of when the bible was written a women or man was stoned to death for cheating on their husband or wife with another consenting adult!!!]
and you think it is some how Gods will we even try to understand this creep?
he would have been dead even speaking such crap.
and you know what all this confession is good for the soul stuff is just insane.
again why? So he/she can stroke herself with the attention he will not get anywhere eles in life?
call it possession call it mental illnes title it anything you like it is what it is to me and that is conversation about an idea i do not need in my life.
but i get why these people get away with what they do and how they live because some have a need to understand .
a need to be a fool and think they are higher power kind of spiritual person who can overcome all evil with love.
the week of easter i think of our Saviour hanging on a tree post so I do not have to battle evil anymore or understand it.
as far as boundarys the idea of "jumpers" is one thing yet consider some do not have boundaries in their life for anyone to jump, again a learned idealogy in our culture of tolerance and victimizatiom .
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Abigail
I am not certain there is a set rule for these forums regarding an abuser - I guess Paw or one of the mods would have to speak to that. Likewise there are different types, levels, and definitions of abuse. This is the first time in all my years at greasespot I have seen a confession of this nature. I don't even know if any of this was prompted by the mods and/or if they have told Anoth he cannot come back.
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ChattyKathy
Before I leave for awhile which is necessary for my own mental health due to allowing this to make me sick I wanted to state again:
I don't think this man handled this right.
I question his remorse more now than I did when I first posted.
God is bigger than we can understand if we believe it or not.
I would never allow someone that abused to be with my child if God was standing in plain view next to them and I knew they had gotten His forgiveness for it.
The abused are welcomed but I don't believe for the greater part we want the abuser to post with us here.
I want this to be what it is an adult forum and not be called a family web site, since the first day I posted here it has not been a family web site, twi abuses to us were not for the greater part what children should be reading without a parent at their side. If we want a site for our children there are hundreds of them out there to pick from.
Bye.
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Abigail
Also true, Pond. But I will not pretend I understand or know anything much about another poster's boundaries or lack thereof, beyond what I may observe in this oftentimes one dimensional forum. On the other hand, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone who will molest a child will encroach upon another person's boundaries.
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ChattyKathy
I posted without seeing you dear.
I think that is what has been very eye-opening about all this because it is the first time anything of this nature has been posted that I have seen also. And I think it has shown me we can't accommodate the abuser, even though this is a poor example of a person being truly remorseful, it still shows we can't handle them here like we can the ones abused. IMHO.
I have to leave now.
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FreeAtLast
Kathy, he doesn't seem to have true remorse I agree. He seems to want to downplay his actions by saying the girl seems to have recovered nicely when the truth is this will plague her for the rest of her life and he should be concerned about what will come of her in adulthood and marriage. How she will view men in the future.
My question is how many other instances of "crossing the line" there were, and no matter how horny he or any other person might be, we usually attend to matters through masterbation or finding someone our age that we become intimate with. But the object of our affections are naturally someone our age (roughly). Desire toward a young child is un-natural and absolutely in need of some type of counsel.
I am not saying deliverance isn't available, but many don't recover. We have seen it in the Way. We saw men who are now in jail, corps grads who helped themselves to some little girl. My cousin was a repeat offender himself.
When we were kids we got a known child molester in the class. We even let him stay in our home which caused my father's business to suffer because of his past. Oh but the Word delivers right? Not in his case. He was hauled off to jail for doing it again, and this man was sick enough that he would do it to little boys. My brothers were at risk and my mom was wise enough to protect them. But the guy allowed his "urges" to get the better of him. I will never trust a known child offender around my children it was once suggested that my cousin take my kids on his boat to which I quickly replied no. no matter how "strong in the Word" they present themselve I will NOT trust them. I may sound heartless but we are talking about the lives of our future, innocent little children who tend to trust an adult they know. It doesn't seem like we should just trust those that have "crossed that line" because they confess their sins.
Just like the judicial system never treats them as trustworthy nor do I.
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Abigail
I can't help but wonder why you would want to accomodate an abuser, Kathy. Really. Okay, someone who was a drunk and physically abused his spouse, but no longer drinks, no longer behaves violently, who is HONESTLY remorseful for his behavior - I think such a person could be accomodated.
Someone who was a leader in TWI - who kicked people out for violating the whimsical and often changing doctrine of TWI, who gave face meltings etc., but who has apologized and is truly remorseful and changed - again I think such a person could be and has been accomodated.
Rapists and pedophiles are in another category all by themselves. They have illnesses that our society and our professionals do not know how to treat. They are dangerous people. Part of what makes them so dangerous is because they know exactly how to play on the emotions of people just like you, Kathy. People who have already have issues knowing and keeping their own boundaries (not an accusation, simply a restatement of what you said earlier).
There is not a single person at the cafe, IMO, who is qualified to help a rapist or pedophile. There are, however, a number of people here who could easily become the victim of one, and a number who already have been.
If this place exists at all to help people, then let us help those we are actually capable of helping. Lets not further expose people to the very abuses and abusers who may have already caused them so much pain.
.
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Radar OReilly
Recently in the state of VA, a man was sentenced to prison for a rape he committed over 20 years ago. As a part of his 12 step program he wrote the woman he had raped at a frat party years before, apologizing to her and leaving it up to her as to how to handle the letter and his apology. She took the letter to the police, and he was sentenced to jail time. THIS offender did it half way right, he at least took steps with the VICTIM, and let her decide.
If Anothen is TRULY interested in coming clean and attaining forgiveness there is really only one option (IN MY OPINION,) and that would be to drive himself to the closest police department and turn himself in. In most states nowadays, the statute of limitations runs out in a set amount of years from the DATE OF DISCOVERY, not from the date the offense occurs.
The way I see it, there aren't too many legal and moral options for this situations............do the right thing, hmmmmmmm.
Radar
***here is the edit:
Oh yeah, as Abi said, I am not qualified or trained to give advice to a rapist, or sex offender.........this is just how I see it.
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Radar OReilly
Okay, someone just sent me a personal message telling me to read the whole thread, that Anothen had already turned himself in and done the time.
That is great if that is the only victim, God is the searcher of hearts, I am gonna leave this thread now, the whole thing gives me the willies.
radar
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oenophile
Abi, Bow et. al.
Let me say again. No one is suggesting that you put your children at risk by letting anothen or any other pedophile have access to your life or children.
I'm tired. Let's just say that I am not as comfortable as you are to label someone as unredeemable as you. I'm done with this thread. I am done with Greasespot. I have nothing to say here from this point on.
I have no more need for the heartache.
I am out of step with most here on philosophical terms.
I need a life and it isn't to be found here.
Peaceout!!!
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ChattyKathy
I don't disagree with any of that Free.
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ChattyKathy
Abi, I spent some time in a store at lunch just looking at the cool things for my head and all the while this Muslim woman kept cutting me off at the pass almost as if she were there to deliberately try and steal the joy I was working towards finding. I finally gave her a look that told her if she didn't cut it out I was going to rip the veil from her head and shove it where the sun didn't shine and she backed off.
I knew then I needed to really pace it back a few notches.
Maybe it really is that simple, this just isn't the place for the abuser to interact with us. It's too painful for us to have to hear their words and be able to see their lack of remorse, and even if they had genuine remorse I don't know that all of us would be able to see it due to our personal experiences and pain.
I wanted to believe that anyone could be welcomed, hell that even Craig could post as himself and be allowed to engage in conversation with us, my heart can't even hate him.
I need to think of all this more, I can see I have some boundary understanding way beyond what I knew I had.
Robin, your voice has always been one of compassion and reason and I personally am pained deeply to think I will never hear your words again.
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doojable
Kathy,
The only proper place for a sexual predator to interact with any victim - his own or another - is in the relative safety of a professional's office.
I say this completely unhardened. I have gotten slammed in the past for wanting to offer forgiveness when it wasn't asked for. I have said more than once that I see forgiveness in two different "slots." There is the forgiveness that comes from God and the forgiveness that comes from the person wronged.
I never meant to imply that any one in particular was validating Anothen - simply that the mere discussion of this has a validating effect. He hasn't posted in days - yet here we are discussing all this. Imagine him sitting back and "watching the show." so to speak.
BTW - has anyone considered that there have been at least three new posters recently that have started threads, caused some flurry, and then never returned?
Frankly, unless I have met this person face to face, seen the whites of their eyes, then I have no idea if this person is real or not. I have no idea if the story is real or not. Just suppose we there are some here "forgiving" for something they didn't really do. Suppose the real offense is the banter and angst that is being caused here. Forgive? Sure. Trust? Earn it, Buddy!
It isn't being hardened to protect one's heart. Wise as serpents and harmless as doves, is my motto. I'll be kind and listen - from over here where I can't be cornered, Thank you very much. If you do corner me or one of mine - I'm striking!
Now, do what you need to do for you and your heart. I would like to not see this emotion dragged up unless real healing can be accomplished.
I'll stay away from this thread for a while - at least no more posting unless a red flag presents itself.
All I can say is that my radar has been activated and the sirens are going off.
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ChattyKathy
I'm working through it all trying not to feel as if I have to give my compassion away to protect me, I'm working on finding where I fit, I have been given plenty of wise words to consider, I just feel sadness in my heart due it all and I can't explain why. Nor am I saying that anyone here said I had to be hard rather than compassionate.
James Taylor is playing in the background and I'm on the roof in my heart looking down trying to find my safe place and still love me.
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pond
i feel we never really know a person, just bits and pieces they want to share. the surprise we learn from our family and friends is what life is really.
A person can be on this forum for a very long time as one name, and become what they may consider intimate with other posters, "real relationships and friends" then come into the same forum and reveal a fact of their life like this and be very unhappy with the reaction.
that would be hurtful but also very very possible.
this is an internet forum everything here is fantasy, maybe not you ,the reader, you may cry ,but im me ,Im honest, I am who I am ok that is great, just do not assume it is true of all on these types of PUBLIC forums.
i still think people put way to much stock in what is said about anyone on a public domain forum.
In our everyday life with people we often become shocked to hear some news about someone we know well(so we thought) in this world of internet it is double or triple fold everything here is just fantasy.
maybe your really you, maybe not , this form of communication is not healthy for intimate relationships!
now abi meant her beloved in a chat room I get many relationships spin from chat room but they grow into REAL relationship with out the screen of who are you and questions are answered in real time and place.
not the same as here on a forum a person is who they want you to think they are truth and real life has little or nothing to do with it if they chose .
it is safe it can be dangerous and more than anything it just isnt real.
for robin to get so upset Im very sorry, but i am here typing so i must be bored or lonely too... but try to keep the perspective of this is what it is.
a public internet forum , fantasy world where in each individual TELLS you who they want to be .
me ?
Im 5 10 blonde hair that shines like the sun I wear a size two and my hubby treats me like a quenn I have a million dollars...im famous and im very very happy everyday.
ok?
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Listener
Pond!!! What are you trying to pull here!!! Everybody knows your real hair color is NOT BLONDE!!!!
:biglaugh:
You are, of course, correct about the internet. Thanks for the reminder.
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excathedra
one time i posted on the prayer forum about my kid's broken foot or some broken bone
anyway some guy emailed me and told me he was praying for my son and that he had been in the way ministry and that's where he saw the prayer deal
then he sent me pictures of himself with a cast on (he said he was in his early 20's i think). i can't remember. i'll have to see if i saved his emails
THEN he asked me to send him pictures of my son with his cast on. i swear to god
and guess what his name was. Chris Bateson
i honestly felt he was making a joke (to himself) and emailing me as Chris Bait Son
anyway, i never wrote him
oh yeah, the pics of him in "his" cast never showed his face
weird, right ?
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Listener
Weird as he!!. Glad you stopped it.
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ChattyKathy
My goodness. I'm so glad you saw he was a sick puppy.
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