It is really hard for me to come clean, but here goes

[Abigail]

It seems that some have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that opening their hearts is not tantamount opening their door and allowing you access to their young children alone.

No, it never is in the beginning. But predators know how to take a small crack in the door and slowly push that door open wider and wider. IF there had been something akin to genuine remorse in the initial post, IF said predator had accepted full responsibility, instead of blaming "sexually aggressive children", IF said predator had minimized his own suffering via a legal sentence instead of minimizing the pain he may have caused a child . . . THEN maybe there could be a very very narrow margin for dialogue. But that is not what happened here.

I am sorry that some have some here have taken it upon themselves to question your motives and would exact from you death by crucifixion as your proper penance.

You might feel differently if you had a child who had been molested by a pedophile.

You have admitted your painful struggles with your desires that hold sway over you even though you have turned to the Scriptures and prayer to rid yourself of them.

Yes, while blaming the victim at the same time.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you could help us understand how you came to take sexual liberties with a minor. Were you abused as a child yourself? If so, could you share details as to how old you were when the abuse first occurred, what happened and how long did the abuse go on? Could you tell us when these desires came up in you? What triggers them now? Feel free to expand this discussion to whatever extent you think would be informative for us.

Do you think you can heal him of what countless professionals still don't know how to effectively treat?

His story doesn't make a difference. Many people who were physically, mentally, sexually abused did not grow up to be pedophiles. Some do. Others who never suffered abuse also sometimes become pedophiles.

Do you think hearing of how he suffered as a child, was beaten by his father, etc. will heal those here who were sexually abused? Or will it perhaps only further their natural instinct to empathize, leaving them even more suseptible to further abuse by a known predator?

Personally, if I want to understand the mind of a pedophile (and I've already come as close to understanding the twisted thoughts of such as I ever want to) I will look to professionals who have studied the issue in depth, not the story of one who still justifies and minimizes his crimes.

now i go back and read this part of what you said and i feel such sorrow

i'm sorry i'm very confused

but i do not hate you

nor do i hate my childhood relatives and not even veepee

peace out

Feel sorry for them. Don't hate them. Forgive them if you can and/or need to. But don't give them entry into your life again! Not ever, not in person, not here, not an inch.

[ChattyKathy]

Abi,

I think in some ways you are talking about me and excath aren't you? We are both willing to get too close, look at what we both did in this thread alone.

[doojable]

I'm going to weigh in here and be gone.

IMHO there is something here that just doesn't feel right. I dont know if the word I'm about to use is quite right - it may be too harsh. There is a voyeuristic tone to this thread.

What is the solution for a person that is truly repentant? I wouldn't start with a thread in the Open Forum.

You want forgiveness? Fine. If you want validation - go somewhere else.

Let me clarify - I'm have no grievance with those that are victims. Nor do I have anything to say about posters that are putting things in perspective. My beef, as it were, is with Anothen.

I'm just leery about the motivation behind the thread.

Edited April 5, 2007 by doojable

[oenophile]

No, it never is in the beginning. But predators know how to take a small crack in the door and slowly push that door open wider and wider. IF there had been something akin to genuine remorse in the initial post, IF said predator had accepted full responsibility, instead of blaming "sexually aggressive children", IF said predator had minimized his own suffering via a legal sentence instead of minimizing the pain he may have caused a child . . . THEN maybe there could be a very very narrow margin for dialogue. But that is not what happened here.

I agree that there are sexual offenders who would use anything to move their agenda forward, i.e. NAMBLA. As long as the sexual predator is not willing to own up fully to the moral depravity of violating innocence and refuses to begin to understand the hurtful consequences of the transgression,he/she is living in delusion and we are rightfully entitled to be skeptical and perhaps even scornful. I believe that Anothen has some work to do in coming to terms with his actions. I inferred as much in the paragraph that you omitted that encouraged him to come to grips with his responsibility of what he did and the damage that was done. Yet, he could have remained silent about his past but he volunteered publicly to wash his dirty linen here. He even said that he is not asking for anything like acceptance or forgiveness from us. While he does have some ways to go in accepting responsibility, to be presumptuous as to his motives serves no good purpose.

You might feel differently if you had a child who had been molested by a pedophile.

I am sure that I would be mad as hell just as you are. I would fight that my child got the help he needed to recover his lost innocence as much as he could. I would make damn sure that the perp was brought to justice. Yet I hope I would remember that hate is rust on the soul.

His story doesn't make a difference. Many people who were physically, mentally, sexually abused did not grow up to be pedophiles. Some do. Others who never suffered abuse also sometimes become pedophiles.

Everyone's story makes a difference. Life is not black and white.

[washingtonweather]

This is a criminal confession ...

I dont get the sympathy

I have never seen predators get "healed" and dont expect anothen to be the first.

Life may not be black and white....But there are very dark shades of gray.

[Eyesopen]

IMHO there is something here that just doesn't feel right. I dont know if the word I'm about to use is quite right - it may be too harsh. There is a voyeuristic tone to this thread.

I don't know if that's the right word or not Dooj, but it's a good one. I'm with you something just don't smell right about this thread. It "feels" wrong, almost like its a setup.

He's not repentant, that is obvious. He calls a child "sexually aggressive" what a load of crap! Then that line about only fondling a 9 year old. WTFO? No...this is bait.

He said all he was supposed to say, again WTFO? The word I have a problem with here is the word "supposed". Like he had a script, or a list of items that needed to be checked off. Something don't smell right.

And by the way, Kathy, Ex and Abi, don't you dare not for one stinking little second feel sorry for this man! You are all beautiful wonderful women of God that have been horribly wronged, dont you have sympathy for a predator, I don't care how repentant he is, you keep your emotional distance! I will not stand by silent and let you feel anything like that for him if I can help it. I just won't! I care too much for my sisters in Christ. Even though I dont even know you very well, it doesn't matter!

Don't get me wrong, wish him well all you want. Thank God he is trying to fix himself, which by the way they dont ever fix themselves they just control the "urges". Pray for his recovery (or control) but do not sympathize, please.

I'm sorry if I over step any boundries here, but...I have known too many men just like him, and I know that just by his words, he aint right, not by a long shot. This is a set up if I ever saw one. So those of you who are emotionally vulnerable I suggest you please leave this thread.

Edited April 5, 2007 by Eyesopen

[oenophile]

This is a criminal confession ...

I dont get the sympathy

I have never seen predators get "healed" and dont expect anothen to be the first.

Life may not be black and white....But there are very dark shades of gray.

Do your lighter grays justify casting the first stone? Is it not possible that Anothen come to terms with a conscious tortured by guilt? While it is true that sexual predators of children cannot be "cured" and do present a risk if given access to children. I am not advocating that Anothen should be hired to teach your kids, coach their soccer team or be their scoutmaster. Everyone involved in his life should be aware of his weakness and take the proper precautions so that he is not presented with the opportunity to act on his urges. But as a human being made in the image of God, is he not entitled to seek reconciliation with Him and make what contribution that he may in His service?

Edited April 5, 2007 by oenophile

[Abigail]

But as a human being made in the image of God, is he not entitled to seek reconciliation with Him and make what contribution that he may in His service?

That would be between him and God, I suppose. But from where I am sitting, a website that is frequented by women who were sexually abused by clergy and leadership as young adults and/or teens is NOT the forum for it.

And by the way, Kathy, Ex and Abi, don't you dare not for one stinking little second feel sorry for this man! You are all beautiful wonderful women of God that have been horribly wronged, dont you have sympathy for a predator, I don't care how repentant he is, you keep your emotional distance! I will not stand by silent and let you feel anything like that for him if I can help it. I just won't! I care too much for my sisters in Christ. Even though I dont even know you very well, it doesn't matter!

thanks, Eyes, but trust me, on this issue I am NOT emotionally vulnerable. I have spoken out against this person's presence here, and will continue to do so for as long as necessary. This is one issue where banning would definitely be the only way to silence me.

Abi,

I think in some ways you are talking about me and excath aren't you? We are both willing to get too close, look at what we both did in this thread alone.

Yes and no, Kathy. I know both of you well enough to be pretty confident you wouldn't give out your names and phone numbers - that you are capable of drawing a line in the sand and refusing to let someone cross it. But there are others here, I don't know so well. Others here who may appear less vulnerable than they really are.

Rainbow - I wanted to say, I have not ignored your post about your daughter. I have simply been at a loss for words. That you and your daughter could even have such a conversation breaks my heart - yet that the two of you have a relationship such that you are capable of such a conversation is a beautiful thing.

[dmiller]

I am not advocating that Anothen should be hired to teach your kids, coach their soccer team or be their scoutmaster. Everyone involved in his life should be aware of his weakness and take the proper precautions so that he is not presented with the opportunity to act on his urges. But as a human being made in the image of God, is he not entitled to seek reconciliation with Him and make what contribution that he may in His service?

I agree. I saw the initial post as a step in admitting a problem.

Not being a parent, and not having been abused myself,

I didn't read the *fine print* in that post, as others here have.

Whether or not it is a true confession, or a set-up, I don't know.

Seems to me there are easier ways to *troll* (if that was the intent),

rather than speak specifically about oneself as was done here.

But hey -- I've been wrong before.

[TheInvisibleDan]

I said all I was supposed to say and I'll just draw the line right here.

I can see that many of you have unresolved issues that you need to work out before I am able to go any further.

I was not allowed to post here until after I came clean. I was wondering why, now I see.

I'll just close saying I don't have any hard feelings toward any of you. I really wish you all the best. This forum is a really good thing and I hope it stays alive.

goodbye, peace out.

ano

Which is easier to say?

"Rise up and Walk."

Go and sin no more.

Edited April 5, 2007 by TheInvisibleDan

[Ron G.]

I read all this and just wonder how much courage it really takes to post something like this anonymously.

Now if he were to come out with his identity and tell ME personally that he had done something to one of MY kids...or even a friends kid or a relative, I would not only admire his great courage, I would help him seek his forgiveness by sending him to be with God forthwith.

Doojable is right...something don't smell right.

I reckon I'm gonna have to go over to Abi and Doojable's side of the room on this'un. They really make sense.

[I Love Bagpipes]

I said all I was supposed to say and I'll just draw the line right here.

I can see that many of you have unresolved issues that you need to work out before I am able to go any further.

I was not allowed to post here until after I came clean. I was wondering why, now I see.

(note: My bold above.)

Perhaps this is a reason why ano posted what he posted? Perhaps he was told that he needed to let folks know his past regarding the said crime?

I guess the question is, who told him he needed to reveal this before he could continue posting?

[Sushi]

(note: My bold above.)

Perhaps this is a reason why ano posted what he posted? Perhaps he was told that he needed to let folks know his past regarding the said crime?

I guess the question is, who told him he needed to reveal this before he could continue posting?

Perhaps there is, ILB. Maybe, just maybe, this is a Firebee/Catmandoo type situation. A poster comes in for the sole purpose of stirring the pot. I don't know if this is the case here, but either way, the poster needs some serious help which we are not able to provide.

[cman]

It's this kind of crime that is about power over the victim.

That is why the sexually aggressive ones are a turn off for him.

He does not have all the power and in control.

Just like this thread.

He lost control of the thread so he left.

There is still the problem right there.

Yes you are in the moment.

Can't change the past or control the future.

You can control the moment.

This moment you must let go of also.

Stay out of control and submit yourself to a higher power or standard.

This moment-NOW, not later.

If you are still listening you know what I'm saying.

Quit being so selfish with each moment.

Quit praying for yourself or thinking of yourself.

This is the road down.

Anothen, you were told to post to see where you are in your head.

This is where you are.

Still into your own self gratification.

Edited April 5, 2007 by cman

[likeaneagle]

you have been offered help...If your truly seeking help.

FOr me, I dont need to understand how you were able to obtain trust from a nine year old little girl. she probaly thought of you as a uncle,huh? you need to track in your mind or subconcious,what told you this is ok...something told you it is ok..to do this and you listened...you had access ....all predators look for weakness...that is where they can get access..

the emotion or drive never gets filled.. sounds like adv. class stuff..

I dont know..cman you make a whole lot of sence..and dooj, I agree..

[ChattyKathy]

Thank you Abi and you are correct about my not giving out my personal information.

I can't join the side saying there is no recovery though, but I can join your thoughts of being able to live amongst us as a registered offender and never allowed within 10 feet of our children without there being ample protectors in the group, certainly never allowed to interact with children or teens ever again on a one on one.

If I didn't believe God could and would forgive the worst of human animals then He wouldn't be the God I serve. But I know God can forgive and forget and the best I can do is forgive.

I also feel anyone allowing their children to read this thread needs to be sitting there beside them explaining every aspect of it and that is going against my first choice of never allowing our children to frequent this board unless we are present because it is not a child/family board, it is an adult one where we as adults should be allowed to speak freely for our healing, and if we feel there is worth for our children here then it is our responsibility as the adult to explain it to them in their way of understanding.

This guy could be a troll but that doesn't change the fact God is bigger than him or us here.

[oenophile]

You want forgiveness? Fine. If you want validation - go somewhere else.

How was anyone here wronged by Anothen? Isn't forgiveness a matter between the injured ones and ones who caused the injury?

[polar bear]

I agree-

I think this guy is looking for support. He needs this. Sure I know there are support groups. But this is where he can get great love and encouragment from believers to pray for him.

The worst thing would be to isolate him. Let's encourage this guy.

[Abigail]

Boundary hoppers and predators.

Here is what I have learned from my first hand experience with a sexual predator, along with my reading on how to protect my children.

1. First and foremost, they are boundary jumpers. Not all boundary jumpers are sexual predators, but all sexual predators are boundary jumpers. Anytime someone pushes your boundaries/fails to respect your boundaries, you are dealing with someone, who in that circumstance, is far more interested in their own want/need/desire than they are in who you are as a person. If you allow your boundary to be moved, you have just informed them that they can test the waters and push them back even further. Many will continue to slowly move your boundaries back further and further unless and until you finally very firmly put your foot down. Not entirely different from the way a child will test the rules and limits you set for them.

2. Predators are often appealing, at least initially. They can be charming and charismatic, they may play on your sympathies and other emotions. One thing most predators have in common, they are very very good at reading people - finding their weak spots and using them to their advantage. [Hence - I aplogize to those of you who suffered sexual abuse, even at the hands of VPW. Hence - I am writing this because my conscience compells me to . . . . and yet later he acknowledged he posted this information because someone else compelled him to.]

3. Predators blame their victims. [Hence sexually aggressive children]

4. Predators downplay their crime.

5. Predators maximize their own suffering .

If you think I am wrong about those markers - do your own research, see for yourselves.

This guy still shows all the markers of a predator. If you want to welcome him into your lives, that is your choice. Personally, I will walk away from this forum and never come back before I will allow such an individual to have access to my life.

[ChasUFarley]

I said all I was supposed to say and I'll just draw the line right here.

I can see that many of you have unresolved issues that you need to work out before I am able to go any further.

I was not allowed to post here until after I came clean. I was wondering why, now I see.

I'll just close saying I don't have any hard feelings toward any of you. I really wish you all the best. This forum is a really good thing and I hope it stays alive.

goodbye, peace out.

ano

Oh, gee thanks.

Man, here I was worried about a PEDOPHILE’s opinion of me.

I'll sleep better at night knowing you forgave me.

You forgave yourself and excused your actions a long time ago - talking about how she was "only" 9 and you "only" fondled her.

You're the one with the issues that need working out, writing stuff like that.

You talk like you're the poster child for deliverance.... you are more like the poster child for the movie Deliverance.

You've even personally apologized for VP's actions - what an egomaniac!

I had my guard up against you when you first came on this board - but was willing to hear you out.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

And don't look out for that bus.

Edited April 5, 2007 by ChasUFarley

[ChattyKathy]

Abi,

I continue to learn from you and am grateful for it. And my believing God is bigger than us is not in contrast to your knowledge. I personally don't want to become a hardened person because of my history but I also don't want to be an easy mark. I reckon there is a balance there somewhere that I am still seeking.

But we risk becoming what we left behind if we censor people that come here legitimately for aid and that is bigger than this one man regardless of his being legit or a trouble maker.

I don't have the answers; I just have the questions inside me.

Kathy

[doojable]

How was anyone here wronged by Anothen? Isn't forgiveness a matter between the injured ones and ones who caused the injury?

Ask anyone who has endured a sexual predator - they will tell you that a story like Anothen's drags up their own past and experiences. I'm saying that this post smells of yet another attack - this one more subtle because it feeds on painful memories. THAT is wrong!

A person truly seeking forgiveness will most like find it. The second half of your post answers my first statement. Why post here for forgiveness??? I wasn't implying that he needed to seek forgiveness here - I was only speaking to his desire for forgiveness.

Ask yourself....why come HERE to find forgiveness?? I wasn't that nine year old girl - were you? (speaking to the crowd here) I'm not God - are you? The answers to those two questions should make it clear that this discussion doesn't belong here.

I'm more likely to say that the warm fuzzies that come every now and then are validation - and I'll have no part of it.

I will not be pursuaded to the contrary.

Abi,

I continue to learn from you and am grateful for it. And my believing God is bigger than us is not in contrast to your knowledge. I personally don't want to become a hardened person because of my history but I also don't want to be an easy mark. I reckon there is a balance there somewhere that I am still seeking.

But we risk becoming what we left behind if we censor people that come here legitimately for aid and that is bigger than this one man regardless of his being legit or a trouble maker.

I don't have the answers; I just have the questions inside me.

Kathy

With all due respect Kathy, neither you nor I are qualified to render aid to this person. It's not being hardened to keep yourself safe.

[ChattyKathy]

I agree about not being hardness to keep myself safe but we are allowed to speak of our abuses yet we are not allowed to speak of our abusing?

I don't care if he is a legit or Craig but I do care that we are calling terms that sound similar to the ones I escaped from when I left twi.

We don't and never will know the heart of anyone; at times we don't know our own hearts. But we can't just slam someone down that is seeking help here. However I have said more than once that he sounds unrepentant in his phrasing and if that has been lost in my empathy towards him I do apologize for that as I know I can be cloudy in my explanations at times.

[Abigail]

Abi,

I continue to learn from you and am grateful for it. And my believing God is bigger than us is not in contrast to your knowledge. I personally don't want to become a hardened person because of my history but I also don't want to be an easy mark. I reckon there is a balance there somewhere that I am still seeking.

But we risk becoming what we left behind if we censor people that come here legitimately for aid and that is bigger than this one man regardless of his being legit or a trouble maker.

I don't have the answers; I just have the questions inside me.

Kathy

You don't have to be hardened, I am not. On the contrary, over the years I have been told by people I need to toughen up. I have had people tell me I am very empathetic. There is a difference between being hardened and drawing hard and firm boundary when a situation requires you too. It isn't that I couldn't sympathize or empathize (though honestly this guy's posts are so riddled with excuses and justifications that I don't feel that for him), it is that I will not allow sympathy or empathy toward one person to override wisdome and safety for another.

Boundaries, Kathy, that is what it is about. Healthy boundaries require us to not allow certain people access to our lives. I view pedophelia as mental illness. Some people who are mentally ill, either only mildly or who are receiving proper treatment, are okay to allow into our lives. Some people who are mentally ill are not safe to allow into our lives.

We had an issue at our school a few weeks back where a parent physically attacked a teacher, the dean of students, and our superintendent. She threw the teacher to the ground and proceeded to kick the living you know what out of her, right in front of her children, my children, and countless other children. The parent is mentally ill and after being arrested was involuntarily committed for a time. Her children are living with a relative and temporarily under the supervision of protective services. Our school took out a no tresspass order as a result of this incident, so the woman cannot come back on our grounds even if she does regain custody of her children.

One of the board members suggested we should reach out to this parent - should somehow find a way to improve relations with her, find a way to work with her. I vehemently opposed this idea. This woman is mentally ill, I can sympathize with her, I can empathize with her. I can hope she gets well and I can pray for her. But NO WAY will I expose my children or anyone else's children to the possiblity that they may have to witnsssss such actions again, or worse yet, be the victim of them.

It is the same in this instance. I will not give room in my life to a person who has hurt a child and then justifies it by minimizing and blaming. Nor am I qualified to assist such a person. They used to refer to such people as criminally insane. Now we just feel sorry for them and unleash them back into our society to hurt more people.

Edited April 5, 2007 by Abigail

[ChattyKathy]

It is the same in this instance. I will not give room in my life to a person who has hurt a child and then justifies it by minimizing and blaming. Nor am I qualified to assist such a person. They used to refer to such people as criminally insane. Now we just feel sorry for them and unleash them back into our society to hurt more people.

I agree about his minimizing and blaming and phrases like told he had crossed the line and such does not indicate he honestly knew he'd crossed the line. If he had he would have said that whole thing differently.

I also know you are not hardened. I don't know those boundaries myself. I don't know how protective I can become of myself without being hardened. I honestly don't.

I just don't want someone that might honestly come here for aid to be chased off because we don't like the abusers. I realize we can't fix them but they should be allowed to at least express themselves and if the only thing we can say in return is we don't have the answers but we suggest you seek professional aid then we would have given back rather than do what VP taught on teaching the alcoholic how horrible his sin was, the man knew more than VP every could have known about the disabling of excessive drinking, he had come there for direction.

Edited April 5, 2007 by ChattyKathy