Where the hell-o do you get that kraap??? John S.'s adultery paper had nuttin to do w/ vic....total red herring.
Uh, if you read STF/CES's website, John's paper on adultery is there. He begins by saying:
"In 1982 or 1983 Rev. Ralph Dubofsky and Rev. Vince Finegan came to me. Dr. Wierwille had asked them to do some work on the subject of adultery. Ralph and Vince wanted to know what I knew and if it would help them."
Bfh, is right. 1 Samuel 13:14 is what is used to make the statement about David. And in case there were any doubts that Samuel may have been referring to somebody other than David, Paul reaffirms this truth in Acts 13:22.
I just did a Google search and cannot find any Christian website or any theologian who says any differently. If Paul (being raised as a strict Pharisee and having access to scrolls we will never have) concluded it was referring to David, I think it's safe to say, it was indeed David who was the man after God's own heart.
Lone Wolf
Was - was when? his whole entire life? even when he took Bathsheba and had her husband killed? Even when he allowed his daughter to be raped by his son?
Well, I suppose if that is the God you chose to worship, that is your free choice. I have no desire to worship a God who cannot find a better way to teach me about him - who would have me endure rape in order to know him. My God is sooo much bigger and better than that. The entire notion that we were lead to a ministry where we would be abused and raped, because a ministry that abuses and rapes is the ONLY place where we could get the rightly divided word is insane.
Uh, if you read STF/CES's website, John's paper on adultery is there. He begins by saying:
"In 1982 or 1983 Rev. Ralph Dubofsky and Rev. Vince Finegan came to me. Dr. Wierwille had asked them to do some work on the subject of adultery. Ralph and Vince wanted to know what I knew and if it would help them."
Lone Wolf
well, he may say that now BUT he certainly did NOT say that back in 1986. I was there; were YOU?
Thank you for calling my attention to that reference in I Samuel.
Still, I don't see mention of David, specifically, at this point. Following the events that took place after this, we can see where David was chosen.
I don't think, however, that VPW handled this in a completely honest fashion because he fudged the chronology to make it seem like, even after all that David did, God found him to be a man ater his own heart. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, I don't know.
I suppose this could go to the doctrinal forum if someone had a desire to carry it any farther.
Was - was when? his whole entire life? even when he took Bathsheba and had her husband killed?
Come on. His whole life? Who has ever accomplished that. You're looking for someone to be Jesus Christ in the flesh for you 24/7 in everything they think , say, and do.
And if I remember correctly, in PFAL, VPW even said that David was NOT a man after God's own heart when he was "running around with Bathsheba and having Uriah killed". Should be in the PFAL (orange) book. Look it up.
He said that when we OBEY, we also can be men and women after God's own heart.
Alfakat, you said...
well, he may say that now BUT he certainly did NOT say that back in 1986. I was there; were YOU?
Yes, I was there. Left by 1987, came back in 1991, left in 2000.
Come on. His whole life? Who has ever accomplished that. You're looking for someone to be Jesus Christ in the flesh for you 24/7 in everything they think , say, and do.
And if I remember correctly, in PFAL, VPW even said that David was NOT a man after God's own heart when he was "running around with Bathsheba and having Uriah killed". Should be in the PFAL (orange) book. Look it up.
No, but if I were looking for someone (and I am not) I would be looking for someone with enough self control, enough concern for his sisters to NOT rape them.
Thank you for calling my attention to that reference in I Samuel.
Still, I don't see mention of David, specifically, at this point. Following the events that took place after this, we can see where David was chosen.
I don't think, however, that VPW handled this in a completely honest fashion because he fudged the chronology to make it seem like, even after all that David did, God found him to be a man ater his own heart. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, I don't know.
I suppose this could go to the doctrinal forum if someone had a desire to carry it any farther.
Personally, I do not.
Waysider,
You're welcome. I looked it up because you had asked about it twice and I thought I remembered that there was a reference to it in the OT.
It was just bugging me that I couldn't remember, so I had to look it up.
Right now, I don't have a dog in this fight, and like you, don't have any desire to carry it any further.
The thought that God was not in der vey AT ALL, from the beginning, sets better with me than to think a glass eyed adulterer, plagiarizer and rapist was handed the secrets of the universe.
Even IF it happened- that the lord said, if you teach it... I'll do so and so, vic didn't live up to the bargain. Instead of teaching, vic went about stealing and making off with every woman who wasn't bolted to the floor..
I would say he abrogated the "agreement" before taking step one. All of this sex crazed junk started way back in his denominational days. Or before.
Somebody challenged me once, "what would you do if you found everything you believed to be WRONG?"
If you can't even consider that question, what's the point of trying to learn..
I just have a quick question. With all the sexploitations VPW supposedly had, did he have a special formula Viagra or something. I was probably over 40 years younger than him and I could never have beaten what he did. Even by myself
You know I see everyones comments about how VPW was basically an egotistical, womanizing, plagiarist, who did nothing but seek glory from men and destroy the lives of others. This is completely ludicrous.
You're right. It is ludicrous. He also destroyed his own life. Thanks for clarifying!
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Lone Wolf McQuade
Alfakat, you said...
Uh, if you read STF/CES's website, John's paper on adultery is there. He begins by saying:
"In 1982 or 1983 Rev. Ralph Dubofsky and Rev. Vince Finegan came to me. Dr. Wierwille had asked them to do some work on the subject of adultery. Ralph and Vince wanted to know what I knew and if it would help them."
Lone Wolf
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Abigail
Was - was when? his whole entire life? even when he took Bathsheba and had her husband killed? Even when he allowed his daughter to be raped by his son?
Well, I suppose if that is the God you chose to worship, that is your free choice. I have no desire to worship a God who cannot find a better way to teach me about him - who would have me endure rape in order to know him. My God is sooo much bigger and better than that. The entire notion that we were lead to a ministry where we would be abused and raped, because a ministry that abuses and rapes is the ONLY place where we could get the rightly divided word is insane.
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alfakat
well, he may say that now BUT he certainly did NOT say that back in 1986. I was there; were YOU?
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waysider
bfh
Thank you for calling my attention to that reference in I Samuel.
Still, I don't see mention of David, specifically, at this point. Following the events that took place after this, we can see where David was chosen.
I don't think, however, that VPW handled this in a completely honest fashion because he fudged the chronology to make it seem like, even after all that David did, God found him to be a man ater his own heart. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, I don't know.
I suppose this could go to the doctrinal forum if someone had a desire to carry it any farther.
Personally, I do not.
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Lone Wolf McQuade
Abigail, you said...
Come on. His whole life? Who has ever accomplished that. You're looking for someone to be Jesus Christ in the flesh for you 24/7 in everything they think , say, and do.And if I remember correctly, in PFAL, VPW even said that David was NOT a man after God's own heart when he was "running around with Bathsheba and having Uriah killed". Should be in the PFAL (orange) book. Look it up.
He said that when we OBEY, we also can be men and women after God's own heart.
Alfakat, you said...
Yes, I was there. Left by 1987, came back in 1991, left in 2000.
Lone Wolf
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Abigail
No, but if I were looking for someone (and I am not) I would be looking for someone with enough self control, enough concern for his sisters to NOT rape them.
Oh, and I burned my orange book years ago.
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waysider
I no longer have a PFAL book so I can't look it up.
I am curious, however, to see what it says and to grasp the point that is being made in the context.
Isn't this the part where it says that even though David was a murderer and an adulterer, he was still an OK guy?
Was that the opinion of God or VP?(That darn chronolgy thing again)
Context, I would think, would be the key factor here rather than any isolated sentence or paragraph.
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bfh
Waysider,
You're welcome. I looked it up because you had asked about it twice and I thought I remembered that there was a reference to it in the OT.
It was just bugging me that I couldn't remember, so I had to look it up.
Right now, I don't have a dog in this fight, and like you, don't have any desire to carry it any further.
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Mike
Howdy Folks!
Boy oh boy, is this deja vu all over again, or WHAT!
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Ham
The thought that God was not in der vey AT ALL, from the beginning, sets better with me than to think a glass eyed adulterer, plagiarizer and rapist was handed the secrets of the universe.
Even IF it happened- that the lord said, if you teach it... I'll do so and so, vic didn't live up to the bargain. Instead of teaching, vic went about stealing and making off with every woman who wasn't bolted to the floor..
I would say he abrogated the "agreement" before taking step one. All of this sex crazed junk started way back in his denominational days. Or before.
Somebody challenged me once, "what would you do if you found everything you believed to be WRONG?"
If you can't even consider that question, what's the point of trying to learn..
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rascal
Amen Mr. Hamm!
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FullCircle
Gives the squirrel ^5 to Mr. H's post
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GarthP2000
He's bbbaaacccckkkkkkkkkk!
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Out There
I just have a quick question. With all the sexploitations VPW supposedly had, did he have a special formula Viagra or something. I was probably over 40 years younger than him and I could never have beaten what he did. Even by myself
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Raf
You're right. It is ludicrous. He also destroyed his own life. Thanks for clarifying!
MIKE! Welcome back, man!
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excathedra
hi mike welcome back ! have you been witnessing to this mcquade ? ;)
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GarthP2000
Raf inadvertantly sez,
"MIKE! Welcome back, man!"
To which Garth horrifyingly exclaims, "No! No! No! Don't encourage him!!" :ph34r:
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Raf
What inadvertent? Casual, maybe, but not inadvertent.
Mike, come on back. Say whatever you want. You won't hear me arguing with you anymore. I think you and I have made our opposition to each other clear.
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