Minor point really, because the idea of comparing VPW to men in the bible like David and Paul, is really offensive, BUT.... both David and Paul repented of their sin, and changed their behavior. VPW didn't.
Hey everybody, does anyone remember this one? vp claimed that God showed him how to set snow on fire...as in lighting a campfire.
He also said God swore him to secrecy because if the information got into the wrong hands it could destroy the earth. Wouldn't that make him the "real deal"?
I'm not making this up. I heard him say it with my own two ears. I'm no scientist, but this sounds pretty bizzare to me.
And the line that "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the king (David)"?
Every woman in the kingdom belonged to God! Israel was supposed to be set apart from the rest of the tribes who surrounded them. Bathsheba was Uriah's WIFE! David committed two sins in that instance, adultery AND murder.
IMO that was corrupted to open the door for the adultery that "spiritually mature" sinners promoted in TWI.
I just have to add my two cents in. I believe you need to ask yourself if you are sure that Dr. really was not working for the "True God!" If he was, and I am curtain he was, than you are going to miss out on what God has in-store for you.
Are you going to continue to base you eternal life on what a few people have said about him? I was not there, but I do believe that PFAL and other things he said and wrote, were;
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
Ask yourself "what you believe, and whatever you believe, ask yourself where you got it and why you believe it?
My reason for this post is simple, if there is anyone whose heart God is working on let me know.
What a bunch of silly and foolish Christians! Isn't this a wonderful destiny for those of you who forget what the war is about? You're in a zombie state for what the devils are truly after in your case. You are prey - you're a brimful living chalice of despair, horror and astonishment which the demons can raise to their lips as often as they please.
Why let this temporary excitement distract us from the true business of undermining the faith and the formation of any real virtue? Rather we give an account of a patients reaction to the war. In the mean time I must remind you not to hope too much from a war. Of course, war is entertaining from a demons perspective. The immediate fear and suffering from humans is a legitimate and pleasing refreshment for the tirade of toiling demon workers. But what permanent good does it do unless they make use of it for bringing souls to their father below? Just to see our temporal suffering and have us escape is like tasting the first course of a rich banquet and being denied the rest. It is worse than to not have tasted it at all!
No doubt the next thing one can expect from them is: Do you know Jesus? Come to Jesus. He'll leave you alone but it will give me the opportunity to get on your case! Were you really expecting them to quit handing out their lousy sermon to you? Not likely. Rather you can expect it because that is the god some people wish to peddle off.
WTH - it always amazes me how much glory and power you attribute to demons and devils, and how little to God.
"A patient of the war?" Gimme a break, there is no war. If there is a devil, then said being is still subject to the will of God. God gave MAN free will - I do not see where God gave such to the spirit realm.
I just have to add my two cents in. I believe you need to ask yourself if you are sure that Dr. really was not working for the "True God!" If he was, and I am curtain he was, than you are going to miss out on what God has in-store for you.
Are you going to continue to base you eternal life on what a few people have said about him? I was not there, but I do believe that PFAL and other things he said and wrote, were;
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
Ask yourself "what you believe, and whatever you believe, ask yourself where you got it and why you believe it?
My reason for this post is simple, if there is anyone whose heart God is working on let me know.
Agape
Neo
Does God not say by their fruits you shall know them? Did not VPW himself teach that every lie has some truth? What truthes I have, that may be similar or the same to what VPW taught, did not come from VPW, but God.
Maybe you should be asking yourself why place the man on a pedestal. Why follow after man, rather than God. If you got some truth from VPW's teachings, then praise God, not VPW.
A patient of the war?" Gimme a break, there is no war. If there is a devil, then said being is still subject to the will of God.
The patient in this war is you - and it is also me. But why listen to these war stories? Don't you realize that they've trained us to lie - even lie to ourselves? I've got news for you sister. God's been off my case since Calvary, so why do we let all these stupid preacher's (even stupid people) get on our case? It's no wonder we can't love the god some people ram down our throat!!!
How much better it would be for them, for the devils, for us to all die in nursing homes then (rather than a war where one is prepared to die) - among doctors who lie, among nurses who lie, among friends who lie, as the devils have them well trained to promise life to the dying - thereby encouraging the belief that sickness excuses every indulgence unless they should betray to the sick man his true condition.
We are all sick men for we are human, and that is what makes you a patient in this war - you are human too, are you not? The devil's best weapons is our own contented, coveted worldliness - to have us deny there is any war at all! God forbid it should be exposed and therefore rendered useless to these devils. That's what's wrong with humanity today. So many aren't expecting to die so they aren't even getting ready. In a war you are prepared to die at any moment. Man, if you thought you were going to die tonight and all you had were treasures laid up in heaven, can you imagine the checks that would flow in? It's tragic, but true.
What reward there must be then for those of us who can see in the contented comfort times, as well as in the draught.
Neo (Hopefully _not_ the one from The Matrix) sez thusly,
"Ask yourself what you believe, and whatever you believe, ask yourself where you got it and why you believe it?"
Actually, the question we all need to be asking ourselves is this:
What kind of serious, mind-bending narcotics are these VPW goosestepp---err apologists taking that is deluding them into actually believing that VPW can actually be defended and honored like they do for him??
Must be some pretty potent s**t, I'll tell you that!
You know I see everyones comments about how VPW was basically an egotistical, womanizing, plagiarist, who did nothing but seek glory from men and destroy the lives of others. This is completely ludicrous.
How is reality ludicrous?
There's no doubt VPW made mistakes, VPW had weaknesses, VPW fell into the flesh....well whoopdie-doo. You guys seem to forget that VPW was just a man. And like any man he had a sin nature tugging on his heart and whispering in his ear.
There's a difference between being tempted to do something and actually doing it. There have been women other than my wife interested in me, yet I haven't and won't sleep with them. Why? Because I have morals, self-discipline, and respect for my family. I'm an atheist. I have no gods helping me, yet I am capable of resisting temptation. Was VPW's god so weak that he couldn't help his top guy avoid not only temptation but actually prevent him from raping people?
If the great Apostle Paul struggled with the flesh and lost again and again and again, what were you expecting from VPW?
The apostle Paul was a rapist?
For the people who say that TWI completely ruined your life, what exactly ruined your life? The fact that VPW fell into sin or the fact that you allowed an idol to form in your own mind (VPW) and that idol didn't come through for you?
I wouldn't say they ruined my life, but they did cause some problems. The people who were raped, the families destroyed, and the people who suffered are the ones who can answer that question better. However, it is clear that TWI was a detriment to my life.
As far as people making VPW into an idol, isn't that what you're doing in your post?
VPW had a powerful ministry. How do I know? Jesus Christ said you will know them by their fruit. Well the fruit of VPW's efforts was 100,000 people getting born again. 100,000? That's called the mighty hand of the Lord moving to save....regardless of what weaknesses VPW may have had in his life.
According to some statistics, there are five times as many Scientologists in the world than your number of TWI followers (which is probably extremely inflated.) Does that mean that L. Ron Hubbard was a greater prophet than VPW? Let's not even get started on how many followers of Islam there are.
Many on this site who are knowledgeable of the scriptures owe a debt of gratitude to his hard work. OK so he "stole" some lines here and there. That doesn't change the fact that he still gave his life to teaching the Word and in his heart of hearts really wanted to be his best for God (don't we all?) but he fell into the flesh. Should I discount everything great the man did?
The problem is that while VPW may have done some good deeds in his life, his bad deeds were big enough to define him. His entire ministry was a sham designed to cater to his immense ego. He "stole" information from other sources because he had nothing of substance of his own. He pretended to be the only source of truth in the world so he could build up his own power. He was an opportunistic charlatan and hurt thousands of people.
Another wierwille apologist?...I thought they all drank the koolaid and died...no wait!...that was Jim Jones. Sometimes I get my cult leaders confused.
Oh and another minor point. Paul was a murderer BEFORE he became a Christian. He met Jesus Christ, received His forgiveness and went on to become an apostle. VPW committed his atrocities when he should have been pastoring the flock. Instead, he chose to take advantage of his "position," and use people for his own lusts. I don't think the apostle Paul did that. So comparing VPW to Paul is ridiculous.
Aren't we as Christians supposed to be followers of Jesus Christ? Somehow, I don't think Jesus approved of VP's behavior, regardless of whether or not he quoted scripture, or "taught the Bible." Another debatable factoid.
There were some great times, great things and great people in TWI.
VPW taught and modeled some great things - - to some, and did the complete polar opposite to others. Personally, whenever I think of the greatest things that were TWI, great accomplishments, etc. few of those great things, when I get honest w/ myself, were VPW.
In reference to his teachings... the things that were truly "his," one of the things that stands out more than anything else for me was how appalled I was w/ his conclusions in the Christian Family & Sex class. Specifically "the original sin" and his overall attitude in the class; abominable.
On great times & events... I remember the music - - he wasn't singing... great times w/ my friends at the rock - - he wasn't there, etc.
The best things of TWI were things that OTHERS did, taught & accomplished on their own w/out VPW.
I knew him, spent a good deal of time w/ him. Worked @ HQ in a pretty high profile job for 8 years. Worked w/him on many projects over a 10 year period. The further I get from TWI, looking back on it, thinking of the "good in it" the less VPW I see in it.
The Bible speaks of itself as being "living and energetic." One cannot teach from it to people w/ open hearts to hear from God w/out GOD doing something good in people's lives.
We must not confuse God's working His own good in people regardless of (and in spite of) VPW's intent through the years of VPW's "ministry;" w/what VP actually accomplished w/his life.
I was, for a period of years responsible for TWI's historical files, the keeper of photos, etc., that chronicled and documented the ministry. Looking back through objective eyes, pretty much every major ministry event was more VPW's ego than much anything else.
SO much of what he did would be considered public relations blunders (at best) for someone whose intent was to "move the Word Over the World." TWI, as an organization, basically gave "the finger" to the entire world of organized Christianity, and anyone else who challenged VPW's positions on any-thing. When folks visited, the intent was more to show off as in "look at what we've done without you" than anything else.
For all that we did, we could have done SOOO MUCH MORE had VPW not stopped us in many, many ways.
For example. How many more people could we have reached for God had we used Way Productions as a record label and released the music? What if we put "The Way Mag" or "Heart" on newsstands like every other rag out there?
We'd have seen how good we were (or weren't) and people who God had actually called could have been brought in contact w/ "His ministry." People would have at least heard and been exposed to our unique message of "God's Word as is hasn't been taught since the 1st Century." (Great hook, BTW).
When VPW ran the ministry, we did what he said, the way he said to do it. We had automony on our jobs for sure but all of the major, ministry level decision were his - done his way.
Ironically, how many more people could we have reached??? How much bigger the ministry? How much MORE money would there have been had we actually REALLY tried to actually REACH people? Had VP not turned the entire contemporary Christian establishment against us w/ the whole "cult" thing. How many more people ??
How much less control would VP have had over the ministry? Just why, when TWI became a $20+ MILLION per year corporation, was it that the ministry couldn't pay people working on staff commensurate salaries with what other corporations paid people doing similar jobs? (I was paid about 1/3 of what the going rate in my profession was at the time for a jr. level and I was senior.)
WHY? Because VP never gave the order to pay us appropriately. It wasn't until (the evil) Chris Geer came along w/ POP that we all got a raise across the board that at least paid us a livable salary. I survived because my wife (at the time) was paid the same as me & in essence doubled my salary.
Things like that are what I look back on and simply cannot ake them line up w/ someone who was really "doing his utmost for His highest." Just doesn't line up.
We had a LOT of great people in the ministry back then. All the while the great stuff was going on over here, VP was using the half million $$$ custom coach to "get jiggy" w/ hot young believer chicks that he really wanted to "get INTO the word." (If you catch my drift.)
The only difference between TWI now and the "good ol days" of TWI is that there are less good people involved in it today than there was then. The rumors of things we speak openly of today have always been a part of the landscape of TWI.
We just ignored so much, way too much. VP was a real deal all right....
quote: JohnIAm and JeanIam, I am tired of being followed by a VP pooper scooper, and I will NOT have a pair of pooper scoopers following me.
Leave me and my opinions alone. You don't like what you read from me? Don't read me and certainly don't respond to me and certainly never contact me privately.
Full Circle: How can I put this to you...this is an OPEN FORUM! HELLO!!!!! Nobody's stalking you. We just DISAGREE with you. How can I determine whether I like what I read from you if I don't READ IT???
quote: And we don't care much for stalking posters around the forums.
We are not stalkers. We're just opinionated. I don't care for censorship, at least, censorship that's only applied to us and not others.
quote: QUOTE(Danny @ Apr 3 2007, 08:50 AM)
Where is a mod washer when you need one?
This should be in Just Plain Silly.
Or maybe we should start a sub thing and call it
Just Plain Stupid.
This is right where it belongs.
Remember those commercials with an egg and a frying pan? This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs.
Considering the path of destruction of Vic/TWI being collateral damage in doing God's work? Your brain is fried and you're a public service announcement warning others to just say no!
Oh, so it's OK for you to call me stupid and brain fried, but it's not OK for me to call Full Circle deceived? Look, I KNOW you don't like me, but unlike other moderators, you seem to take me a lot more personally. If you want to kick me and Jean out of here, do it; we apologize for NOTHING!
As for this thread, last time I checked, the "Good things done by VP" thread was already on life support, but I KNEW this thread wouldn't stand a chance.
from one strongly opinionated person to another, I would hate to see the two Iam's go. I may vehemently disagree with them on some things. I have even read posts by Mr. Iam that really really ticked me off. However, I have also seen the other side. Call them deceived, say they are in denial, whatever. I don't agree with them either. But they aren't evil.
they have stalked others as well, Mrs. Iam may actually be more of a stalker than Mr. Iam -- Good luck
I really actually liked Joniam until of course he would talk about the wonderful caped crusader supermoggie.... But the Mrs. Geez.....
Don't let them stop you -- Keep talking if they liked VPW so much then maybe a threesome would have warm and inviting to them -- VPW had them as well. Jeaniam could take a spin while VPW reads Corinthians -- sounds crude, HUH?
Enjoy your hero worship Mrs. Iam. He bopped teens looking Jesus but don't let that stop you... OR the fact that he "put something in a drink" of a girl who suffered childhood incest -- then forced her to have sex... Ohhhh, my God what a hero.
Here is a picture for you:
Mrs. Iam
It seems your undying love for VPW might have landed you in the inner circle. Certainly he would have let you iron his shirts and run errands. But if you are a little cute, and desirable to him, he prefers breasts… You would have been brought in. Let me paint you the reality of what your life would have been like … Now picture it and if you like it, then you truly are a VPW sell out and I will not waste my time.
It is Sunday morning, you bring VPW a shirt he plans to wear. He makes a comment about your breasts. You giggle your 18- year-old giggle cause he is the Man of God. Then he touches them, running his old hands over your young perky statues. He grabs your butt and pulls you close and French kisses you. Then, he pushes your head down to his zipper as it flies open. He tells you, it is your ministry – your gift is your body and he is going to help you learn. He forces you to touch and feel and place your lips. You choke for a moment but he pushes you into him…Your inhibitions are not there as he offered you a 7 up and you feel kinda funny.
Next thing you know Howard is there, you are not sure when this happened but now you are with him. You keep hearing your mother’s warnings about these kind of men….
You meet Mr. Iam but the beckoning from the Moggie does not stop. Sometimes, the Mr. Has to endure sloppy seconds, but he is blessed as well after all…he is secong to Moggie.
Then, you have a daughter, never sure whose it is. And at the age of 13 you see the Moggie, you still work for, teaching her about perky breasts, how nipples get stiff when they are touched.
Is he still great? Did that gross you out or did it give you a buzz…
And if it gave you a buzz let me share the fact that he WAS not endowed. (At all)
Cause that could have been your life had you gotten to know your HERO. Oh, but he had a nice little stolen class called PFAL.
BUT KNOW THIS MY GOD CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT
Oh, and these are things he did do. Not to me, I saw “it” a very samll "it" and left.
And by the way, back off the stalking, the community here will not tolerate it. If you stalk full Circle some of us will stalk you until you stop it.
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ex10
Minor point really, because the idea of comparing VPW to men in the bible like David and Paul, is really offensive, BUT.... both David and Paul repented of their sin, and changed their behavior. VPW didn't.
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coolchef
jean
i am not the sharpest knife in the drawer {and i guess you are not also}
but
didn't paul and and david
repent and become as chldren, holy and sorry for thier sins?
did ole vic?,
NOPE
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Listener
Hey everybody, does anyone remember this one? vp claimed that God showed him how to set snow on fire...as in lighting a campfire.
He also said God swore him to secrecy because if the information got into the wrong hands it could destroy the earth. Wouldn't that make him the "real deal"?
I'm not making this up. I heard him say it with my own two ears. I'm no scientist, but this sounds pretty bizzare to me.
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washingtonweather
yeah -- I am kinda with the majority here in the David analogy----and David was sorry--vp thought he was owed sexual favors by every female
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Watered Garden
And the line that "every woman in the kingdom belonged to the king (David)"?
Every woman in the kingdom belonged to God! Israel was supposed to be set apart from the rest of the tribes who surrounded them. Bathsheba was Uriah's WIFE! David committed two sins in that instance, adultery AND murder.
IMO that was corrupted to open the door for the adultery that "spiritually mature" sinners promoted in TWI.
WG
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Neo
I just have to add my two cents in. I believe you need to ask yourself if you are sure that Dr. really was not working for the "True God!" If he was, and I am curtain he was, than you are going to miss out on what God has in-store for you.
Are you going to continue to base you eternal life on what a few people have said about him? I was not there, but I do believe that PFAL and other things he said and wrote, were;
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
Ask yourself "what you believe, and whatever you believe, ask yourself where you got it and why you believe it?
My reason for this post is simple, if there is anyone whose heart God is working on let me know.
Agape
Neo
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What The Hey
What a bunch of silly and foolish Christians! Isn't this a wonderful destiny for those of you who forget what the war is about? You're in a zombie state for what the devils are truly after in your case. You are prey - you're a brimful living chalice of despair, horror and astonishment which the demons can raise to their lips as often as they please.
Why let this temporary excitement distract us from the true business of undermining the faith and the formation of any real virtue? Rather we give an account of a patients reaction to the war. In the mean time I must remind you not to hope too much from a war. Of course, war is entertaining from a demons perspective. The immediate fear and suffering from humans is a legitimate and pleasing refreshment for the tirade of toiling demon workers. But what permanent good does it do unless they make use of it for bringing souls to their father below? Just to see our temporal suffering and have us escape is like tasting the first course of a rich banquet and being denied the rest. It is worse than to not have tasted it at all!
No doubt the next thing one can expect from them is: Do you know Jesus? Come to Jesus. He'll leave you alone but it will give me the opportunity to get on your case! Were you really expecting them to quit handing out their lousy sermon to you? Not likely. Rather you can expect it because that is the god some people wish to peddle off.
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Abigail
WTH - it always amazes me how much glory and power you attribute to demons and devils, and how little to God.
"A patient of the war?" Gimme a break, there is no war. If there is a devil, then said being is still subject to the will of God. God gave MAN free will - I do not see where God gave such to the spirit realm.
Does God not say by their fruits you shall know them? Did not VPW himself teach that every lie has some truth? What truthes I have, that may be similar or the same to what VPW taught, did not come from VPW, but God.
Maybe you should be asking yourself why place the man on a pedestal. Why follow after man, rather than God. If you got some truth from VPW's teachings, then praise God, not VPW.
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What The Hey
The patient in this war is you - and it is also me. But why listen to these war stories? Don't you realize that they've trained us to lie - even lie to ourselves? I've got news for you sister. God's been off my case since Calvary, so why do we let all these stupid preacher's (even stupid people) get on our case? It's no wonder we can't love the god some people ram down our throat!!!
How much better it would be for them, for the devils, for us to all die in nursing homes then (rather than a war where one is prepared to die) - among doctors who lie, among nurses who lie, among friends who lie, as the devils have them well trained to promise life to the dying - thereby encouraging the belief that sickness excuses every indulgence unless they should betray to the sick man his true condition.
We are all sick men for we are human, and that is what makes you a patient in this war - you are human too, are you not? The devil's best weapons is our own contented, coveted worldliness - to have us deny there is any war at all! God forbid it should be exposed and therefore rendered useless to these devils. That's what's wrong with humanity today. So many aren't expecting to die so they aren't even getting ready. In a war you are prepared to die at any moment. Man, if you thought you were going to die tonight and all you had were treasures laid up in heaven, can you imagine the checks that would flow in? It's tragic, but true.
What reward there must be then for those of us who can see in the contented comfort times, as well as in the draught.
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GarthP2000
Neo (Hopefully _not_ the one from The Matrix) sez thusly,
"Ask yourself what you believe, and whatever you believe, ask yourself where you got it and why you believe it?"
Actually, the question we all need to be asking ourselves is this:
What kind of serious, mind-bending narcotics are these VPW goosestepp---err apologists taking that is deluding them into actually believing that VPW can actually be defended and honored like they do for him??
Must be some pretty potent s**t, I'll tell you that!
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Mister P-Mosh
How is reality ludicrous?
There's a difference between being tempted to do something and actually doing it. There have been women other than my wife interested in me, yet I haven't and won't sleep with them. Why? Because I have morals, self-discipline, and respect for my family. I'm an atheist. I have no gods helping me, yet I am capable of resisting temptation. Was VPW's god so weak that he couldn't help his top guy avoid not only temptation but actually prevent him from raping people?
The apostle Paul was a rapist?
I wouldn't say they ruined my life, but they did cause some problems. The people who were raped, the families destroyed, and the people who suffered are the ones who can answer that question better. However, it is clear that TWI was a detriment to my life.
As far as people making VPW into an idol, isn't that what you're doing in your post?
According to some statistics, there are five times as many Scientologists in the world than your number of TWI followers (which is probably extremely inflated.) Does that mean that L. Ron Hubbard was a greater prophet than VPW? Let's not even get started on how many followers of Islam there are.
The problem is that while VPW may have done some good deeds in his life, his bad deeds were big enough to define him. His entire ministry was a sham designed to cater to his immense ego. He "stole" information from other sources because he had nothing of substance of his own. He pretended to be the only source of truth in the world so he could build up his own power. He was an opportunistic charlatan and hurt thousands of people.
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FullCircle
He was a sociopath in a skinny tie.
Plain and simple.
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GarthP2000
... gotta watch for them skinny ties. That's the dead giveaway.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Another wierwille apologist?...I thought they all drank the koolaid and died...no wait!...that was Jim Jones. Sometimes I get my cult leaders confused.
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ex10
Oh and another minor point. Paul was a murderer BEFORE he became a Christian. He met Jesus Christ, received His forgiveness and went on to become an apostle. VPW committed his atrocities when he should have been pastoring the flock. Instead, he chose to take advantage of his "position," and use people for his own lusts. I don't think the apostle Paul did that. So comparing VPW to Paul is ridiculous.
Aren't we as Christians supposed to be followers of Jesus Christ? Somehow, I don't think Jesus approved of VP's behavior, regardless of whether or not he quoted scripture, or "taught the Bible." Another debatable factoid.
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Jim
He||, I think he's cabinet material. Give him 20-30 year and he could be the MOGFOT.
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HCW
There were some great times, great things and great people in TWI.
VPW taught and modeled some great things - - to some, and did the complete polar opposite to others. Personally, whenever I think of the greatest things that were TWI, great accomplishments, etc. few of those great things, when I get honest w/ myself, were VPW.
In reference to his teachings... the things that were truly "his," one of the things that stands out more than anything else for me was how appalled I was w/ his conclusions in the Christian Family & Sex class. Specifically "the original sin" and his overall attitude in the class; abominable.
On great times & events... I remember the music - - he wasn't singing... great times w/ my friends at the rock - - he wasn't there, etc.
The best things of TWI were things that OTHERS did, taught & accomplished on their own w/out VPW.
I knew him, spent a good deal of time w/ him. Worked @ HQ in a pretty high profile job for 8 years. Worked w/him on many projects over a 10 year period. The further I get from TWI, looking back on it, thinking of the "good in it" the less VPW I see in it.
The Bible speaks of itself as being "living and energetic." One cannot teach from it to people w/ open hearts to hear from God w/out GOD doing something good in people's lives.
We must not confuse God's working His own good in people regardless of (and in spite of) VPW's intent through the years of VPW's "ministry;" w/what VP actually accomplished w/his life.
I was, for a period of years responsible for TWI's historical files, the keeper of photos, etc., that chronicled and documented the ministry. Looking back through objective eyes, pretty much every major ministry event was more VPW's ego than much anything else.
SO much of what he did would be considered public relations blunders (at best) for someone whose intent was to "move the Word Over the World." TWI, as an organization, basically gave "the finger" to the entire world of organized Christianity, and anyone else who challenged VPW's positions on any-thing. When folks visited, the intent was more to show off as in "look at what we've done without you" than anything else.
For all that we did, we could have done SOOO MUCH MORE had VPW not stopped us in many, many ways.
For example. How many more people could we have reached for God had we used Way Productions as a record label and released the music? What if we put "The Way Mag" or "Heart" on newsstands like every other rag out there?
We'd have seen how good we were (or weren't) and people who God had actually called could have been brought in contact w/ "His ministry." People would have at least heard and been exposed to our unique message of "God's Word as is hasn't been taught since the 1st Century." (Great hook, BTW).
When VPW ran the ministry, we did what he said, the way he said to do it. We had automony on our jobs for sure but all of the major, ministry level decision were his - done his way.
Ironically, how many more people could we have reached??? How much bigger the ministry? How much MORE money would there have been had we actually REALLY tried to actually REACH people? Had VP not turned the entire contemporary Christian establishment against us w/ the whole "cult" thing. How many more people ??
How much less control would VP have had over the ministry? Just why, when TWI became a $20+ MILLION per year corporation, was it that the ministry couldn't pay people working on staff commensurate salaries with what other corporations paid people doing similar jobs? (I was paid about 1/3 of what the going rate in my profession was at the time for a jr. level and I was senior.)
WHY? Because VP never gave the order to pay us appropriately. It wasn't until (the evil) Chris Geer came along w/ POP that we all got a raise across the board that at least paid us a livable salary. I survived because my wife (at the time) was paid the same as me & in essence doubled my salary.
Things like that are what I look back on and simply cannot ake them line up w/ someone who was really "doing his utmost for His highest." Just doesn't line up.
We had a LOT of great people in the ministry back then. All the while the great stuff was going on over here, VP was using the half million $$$ custom coach to "get jiggy" w/ hot young believer chicks that he really wanted to "get INTO the word." (If you catch my drift.)
The only difference between TWI now and the "good ol days" of TWI is that there are less good people involved in it today than there was then. The rumors of things we speak openly of today have always been a part of the landscape of TWI.
We just ignored so much, way too much. VP was a real deal all right....
Power corrupts... absolutely.
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johniam
quote: JohnIAm and JeanIam, I am tired of being followed by a VP pooper scooper, and I will NOT have a pair of pooper scoopers following me.
Leave me and my opinions alone. You don't like what you read from me? Don't read me and certainly don't respond to me and certainly never contact me privately.
Full Circle: How can I put this to you...this is an OPEN FORUM! HELLO!!!!! Nobody's stalking you. We just DISAGREE with you. How can I determine whether I like what I read from you if I don't READ IT???
quote: And we don't care much for stalking posters around the forums.
We are not stalkers. We're just opinionated. I don't care for censorship, at least, censorship that's only applied to us and not others.
quote: QUOTE(Danny @ Apr 3 2007, 08:50 AM)
Where is a mod washer when you need one?
This should be in Just Plain Silly.
Or maybe we should start a sub thing and call it
Just Plain Stupid.
This is right where it belongs.
Remember those commercials with an egg and a frying pan? This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs.
Considering the path of destruction of Vic/TWI being collateral damage in doing God's work? Your brain is fried and you're a public service announcement warning others to just say no!
Oh, so it's OK for you to call me stupid and brain fried, but it's not OK for me to call Full Circle deceived? Look, I KNOW you don't like me, but unlike other moderators, you seem to take me a lot more personally. If you want to kick me and Jean out of here, do it; we apologize for NOTHING!
As for this thread, last time I checked, the "Good things done by VP" thread was already on life support, but I KNEW this thread wouldn't stand a chance.
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Abigail
from one strongly opinionated person to another, I would hate to see the two Iam's go. I may vehemently disagree with them on some things. I have even read posts by Mr. Iam that really really ticked me off. However, I have also seen the other side. Call them deceived, say they are in denial, whatever. I don't agree with them either. But they aren't evil.
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johniam
First we're "pooper scoopers" then we're cat food (Iams). No pun intended, but we've come full circle.
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ex10
Hi Johniam. Good to see you still have your sense of humor.
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Dot Matrix
Full Circle
they have stalked others as well, Mrs. Iam may actually be more of a stalker than Mr. Iam -- Good luck
I really actually liked Joniam until of course he would talk about the wonderful caped crusader supermoggie.... But the Mrs. Geez.....
Don't let them stop you -- Keep talking if they liked VPW so much then maybe a threesome would have warm and inviting to them -- VPW had them as well. Jeaniam could take a spin while VPW reads Corinthians -- sounds crude, HUH?
Enjoy your hero worship Mrs. Iam. He bopped teens looking Jesus but don't let that stop you... OR the fact that he "put something in a drink" of a girl who suffered childhood incest -- then forced her to have sex... Ohhhh, my God what a hero.
Here is a picture for you:
Mrs. Iam
It seems your undying love for VPW might have landed you in the inner circle. Certainly he would have let you iron his shirts and run errands. But if you are a little cute, and desirable to him, he prefers breasts… You would have been brought in. Let me paint you the reality of what your life would have been like … Now picture it and if you like it, then you truly are a VPW sell out and I will not waste my time.
It is Sunday morning, you bring VPW a shirt he plans to wear. He makes a comment about your breasts. You giggle your 18- year-old giggle cause he is the Man of God. Then he touches them, running his old hands over your young perky statues. He grabs your butt and pulls you close and French kisses you. Then, he pushes your head down to his zipper as it flies open. He tells you, it is your ministry – your gift is your body and he is going to help you learn. He forces you to touch and feel and place your lips. You choke for a moment but he pushes you into him…Your inhibitions are not there as he offered you a 7 up and you feel kinda funny.
Next thing you know Howard is there, you are not sure when this happened but now you are with him. You keep hearing your mother’s warnings about these kind of men….
You meet Mr. Iam but the beckoning from the Moggie does not stop. Sometimes, the Mr. Has to endure sloppy seconds, but he is blessed as well after all…he is secong to Moggie.
Then, you have a daughter, never sure whose it is. And at the age of 13 you see the Moggie, you still work for, teaching her about perky breasts, how nipples get stiff when they are touched.
Is he still great? Did that gross you out or did it give you a buzz…
And if it gave you a buzz let me share the fact that he WAS not endowed. (At all)
Cause that could have been your life had you gotten to know your HERO. Oh, but he had a nice little stolen class called PFAL.
BUT KNOW THIS MY GOD CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT
Oh, and these are things he did do. Not to me, I saw “it” a very samll "it" and left.
And by the way, back off the stalking, the community here will not tolerate it. If you stalk full Circle some of us will stalk you until you stop it.
Welcome to the spot
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rascal
Oh suck it up John, you and jean are more than comfortable calling names and accusing people of rediculous things.
It is too damned easy to flounce outta here in rightious indignation nose up in the air, believing that you have been wronged.
It takes real courage to read to honestly discuss, and to consider the topic at hand.
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Danny
Johnian
I'm sorry if you misunderstood my point.
I did not call you stupid. The subject matter at hand is what i was
talking about.
I will let you own words stand for who you are.
You and I will stand one day and both have to see the fire
burn them up or the will pass the test.
VP made his bed he can't change a thing.
I can still ask God to look over my stupidity and forgive me.
But I believe my bible says to warn others.
It also says you will know them by their fruit.
Lot of flies around whats up with that.
Maybe something to do with rotten fruit.
I have no cause not to like you. Might not like a idol or two.
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