I get that, Tom. But, according to TWI doctrine, her whole family dynamic should disqualify her from being a leader, especially one in such a lofty position, no?
Would that I had kids to screw up, but thanks to my stupidity regarding TWI that appears very unlikely.
Quite a few of DM's friends were "delivered" lesbians. There was a group of them who hung out at a certain college and they all got in TWI at the same time. Her buddies were either "ex" lesbians, or members of VPW's sex club.<BR><BR>I know the one who gave the speech, and there were others. The one who gave the speech was immature, hard as nails, ran her own homo witch hunts and also swung both ways. She told me some hairraising stories of trains she had pulled in the military. She thought nothing of it. In fact the whole sex thing was amusing to her. She also had two lady friends who were in-residence and when she was on staff would go visit them in Emporia and was actually allowed to take them off campus to a hotel for the weekend. That blew my mind. There was another rev. who also had different "close" lady friends.<BR><BR>Did I ever for a minute believe they were delivered? No. There is such a thing as platonic lesbianism and homosexuality, where if someone believes its wrong, but they are that way, they won't perform the act, but will get close physically and basically have a relationship with everything but the sex.<BR><BR>Also, I too watched DM metamorphasize from blonde california woman to midwest farm frump. Truly sad to see. But, I guess that's the price you pay for glory!<BR><BR>I don't mind if someone is gay or straight, but its the lies, cover up and hypocrisy of it in TWI that bothers me. I think if you're going to lead God's people, you better be upfront, or you're living a lie.
I had a similar experience with an innie friend of whom I had not told about my departure from twi. She instant messaged me, and I told her that she should know that I wasn't "in" anymore. She asked if she could call me. I said yes.<BR><BR>I wasn't surprised by her. She questioned me, and I told her I just saw too much crap and that I didn't believe the crap about the true household or Eve having a lesbian experience. Her response to me was "Well, did you go back and research it for yourself?" I told her it was too ridiculous to even consider it truth and it didn't take a very smart person to figure that out.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It should be interesting to see what parts get amputated from lcm's version........ like, the lesbian/satan ordeal in Genesis, etc.?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>I would be surprised to see if that teaching gets kicked to the curb. I know Corps who taught the class and felt uncomfortable teaching that. They were required to cover or read EVERY scripture. How do you skirt around something like that when you have no room for inspiration?<BR><BR>I had a friend in rez who said the in-rez Corps were questioning the Eve-lesbian teaching. Don't know where it went though. It would be interesting to find out.<BR><BR>Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life.
Fresh,<BR><BR>I understand that the Eve-lesbian teaching is total bunk. Let me make the quote you did a little clearer: The in-rez corps susptected or totally believed it was bunk too. They brought it up to leadership, but nothing ever came out of it. TWI won't admit it--as always.<BR><BR>If I misunderstood what you are saying, I apologize.<BR><BR>Kindness is the oil that takes the friction out of life.
I heard someone question the WC about changes to the class and they wanted to know what that person thought should be changed. They were very defensive and said that there wasn't anything in the class that was wrong and that they had not heard from HQ of any plans to change any of the teachings.<BR><BR>They are taping the class to make it easier for the WC - plain and simple. To expect any changes is to have false expectations.
If Sunesis is still around from time to time, perhaps she can speak up on what she is privvy to, having been closely associated with Donna.<BR><BR>I do know that Donna and Rosie Lie claimed to me and a small group of WC leadership while we were at Rome City for a leadership conference, that she and Rosie Lie took frequent vacations together at Rome City to "get away" from HQ together, and they loved the suite so much they get the same one every time.<BR><BR>Geek and I stayed in that same suite from time to time as well, and I guarantee you there is only ONE very small double bed in it.<BR><BR>For the life of me I cannot figure out why two grown women would want to sleep that close together. For a week at a time, too.<BR><BR>"Tear out our hearts--- and they will fatally wound you."<BR><BR>Hans Scholl
Geeeze, I didn't realize that the penchant certain early corps women (Donna included) had for sleeping with each other was any big secret.<BR><BR><!--graemlin::eek:-->
I remember being told about rfr and dm's vacations together. They would share about them at lunch. A few times when all the top dogs went out of town, it seemed the way things were explained that rfr and dm shared a room. I thought it was odd that dm didn't share a room with her husband. It always appeared that rfr and dm were too close. But I don't know about the lesbian thing. That's all hearsay.<BR><BR>Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
My H sat through a repeat of "The Way of Redundance and Cower" class recently. Prior to that, I asked him if they were still teaching Martindale's idea that Eve and The Devil actually engaged in lesbian sex, thereby causing the spiritual downfall of all mankind. I pointed out that that idea, in total, makes very little sense, and contradicts everything we had been taught about the nature of spirit and the nature of flesh. I.e., "spirit is spirit, and flesh is flesh", and that it would be impossible for a spirit to actually have sex with a human being. If that were possible, it would also be feasible that God actually had "sex" with Mary in order to conceive Jesus Christ---and we all know that that possibility is emphatically refuted in all TWI (as well as all other Christian) doctrine.
I actually re-read that section in the WAP class syllabus, and noted once again, the way in which scripture had to be contorted in order to reach that conclusion. It was about as clear as mud, but they nonetheless persist in maintaining this doctrine. He concedes that there is an apparent contradiction between what we had been taught and Martindale's version of "the original sin of man", but he will not concede that it might be spiritually dishonest to continue to promulgate this shakey doctrine (big surprise there,...
The entire threads most of these quotes come from contain more good information, too.
CC,<BR><BR>After sitting throught the "Eve" section the first time, a large number of grads approached the wc running the class out of confusion. No one got it. After being told to work it, we still didn't see it.<BR><BR>Fast forward to first class with new people: same effect. Blank stares. Sadly, w whole bunch of segments left new students confused. Even the wc would admit privately that they still didn't see the explanation about Eve fitting. Public faces, as always, were different.
The wc teaching it start talking really fast and you can tell they hope no one asks any questions about it. They will adamantly defend it as accurate and correct, though they can't explain it and can't back it up with real research.<BR><BR>Does anyone remember lcm teaching it? Isn't this where he says, "Do you see it? (laugh) Well, I do." Insinuating that we have to just "take it on faith" because the mogfart said that's what it says. Sadly, that's the way most of the wc still think.
I mentioned on another thread about the lesbian devil segment. I worked that section for over a year and proved that Martindale's conclusions were incorrect. The definitions that he gave for words was demonstrably wrong, and his conclusions were not supported by his supposed evidense.
When I presented all of this to my region coordinator, who was teaching the class live (i.e. reading the syllabus) he said "You may not be able to document his conclusions, but it has to be right because of what we know about homosexuality".
I don't know about DM and RFR being lesbiefriends. But I do know they took vacations together. And one vacation was to take the youngest martindale child to disney world. loy boy joked that they were going to rehab. I thought that was a weird joke to make.
I knew a guy on staff who worked in a department where they went to all of the way-owned buildings. There used to be two women who shared a room in the basement of RFR's house. One was a supposedly reformed lesbian. I had highly doubted she was no longer a lesbian. And these two women were inseparable. This guy said he went to do some work in their room, and there was only one bed for these two women. Seems kinda odd to me. Why would the VP (at that time) of the way have two women sleeping together in her very own house? Why wouldn't she know what was going on in her own house? Yes, it raised a lot of questions in my mind. But I heard it from someone else, so I can't guarantee it all really happened. But then again, why would this guy lie?
I completely agree with Radar. People's sex lives are their own business UNLESS they are leadership in an organized religous organization who preach the opposite of what they are practicing.
The early to mid 90s were terrible when the roar and witch hunts were on to "mark the homo". I saw a lot of good people hurt by that craziness.
JT,<BR><BR>Now that you mention it, I NEVER, NOT ONCE, heard either RFR or DM address the issue of homosexuality during the great "fag years." As a matter of fact, during those EXACT YEARS, I remember distinctly, the two women that wayferNot mentioned, living in rfr's basement and Donna spending quite a bit of time with an openly admitted "reformed and delivered" lesbian that had been placed in a highly visible corps position. I remember thinking (WHAT AN IDIOT) that Donna was "working with her" to "CONFIRM" her deliverance.<BR><BR>Add that to the category of:<BR><BR>THINGS THAT MAKE YOU WANT TO GO....HMMMMMMMMMM????"<BR><BR>Radar
Class is more structured than either PFAL or WAP (originals both rambled all over the place) but teaches much of the same doctrine. The teachers speak extended quotations of both previous classes as their own words and Chavoustie does a mean VPW. Credit is given to VPW, LCM gets no mention at all. The sessions all bare the same titles as the previous WAP but some sessions are complete retooled. Yes the Gen 3 eve/homo teaching is gone, but many other less sensational but equally illconceived concepts remain.
One addition is the pre-recorded session reviews by Bev Coyle, who's smile shines so brightly in makes that view just a bit uneasy.
It took over SIX YEARS to take the teaching out of their class AND they haven’t rescinded the teaching, corrected it, said it was wrong or apologized for subjecting folks to utter and total bunk – they just “quit teaching it” – It’s still referred to and believed and used in teachings I’d wager.
One of those two women who lived in Rosie-lie's basement was very into the homohunt thing.... She loved smoking out faggots.
Oh, does the word "faggot" offend you?
So sorry. That was a DIRECT QUOTE!
LCM taught that when someone consented or did not confront a homosexual relationship or even thoughts about the act, that they were a homo-sympathizer. He taught that that was as bad as the act itself.
The two women who lived in RFR's basement moved out TOGETHER - as a couple. They had even bought each other rings at some point.
I'm sorry, but I've had the same best friend for almost 30 years now - we started as friends in second grade - WE HAVE NEVER bought rings for each other. Please!
I have NO DOUBT - not one iota - that those two were more than just girl friends.
I don't doubt that RFR and DM are more than just friends.... They vacationed exclusively in one bedroom at a resort - that wasn't as good stewardship to save your ABS, my friend. It was for a 24-hr drive-thru carpetburger whenever they wanted it - why else do two adults share a bed like THAT...? Especially when they have millions of dollars at their finger tips....
Okay so they dropped the Eve-lesbian teaching. Sounds like Rivenbark is doing the best she can to undo some of the more glaring errors that Martindale was teaching. What else has she done lately?
By the way, it's good to see some background material for the readers who might be wondering where this subject is coming from. Much of it was from 2003 however, when I think there was probably a different truth working. Do we know what the present truth on the topic is?
If they removed Eve's original sin from the class, it's no longer an explicitly present truth but a past truth, or emeritus truth - which is like, still honored but retired. Or, come to think of it, The Way of Abundance and Power (?) might now have to include the implicit, present subjunctive truth rather than the complicit present indicative; whereas it is that past indicative truth, rather than the past subjunctive, from which is revealed the present indicative and/or subjunctive truths alike.
I remember when we thought it was the present continuous truth, which always conjugated seamlessly into the future perfect truth, but that's way in the past, presently. We were so naive back then.
Just ask John Linder on the Good Morning thead, where he'll see it. He's got to be an expert on all the different truths out there, past, present and future, in order to detect the Adversary's ways, and protect the household, and especially to tell the difference between what he's for and what he's against, which is constantly shifting, though eternal. It must get harder and harder every year.
Yeah, Satori, kinda like they came out and said they have no policy on debt. .... but still persecute and require folks to be debt free in order to wear certain colored nametags.
They're still teaching it and they're still kicking people out for being homosexual. Don't be fooled. You're smarter than that. <_<
All the time I spent in TWI, they never ever ever admitted being wrong on a doctrine or shelved a doctrine. Never.
Once it was taught, it stayed put.
The only way a doctrine was changed was that TWI claimed to have gotten new insight, new research new revelation on an already existing doctrine and taught it with the new light they received or whatever the hell it was they call it.
Example, The solidier of God, spiritual warfare was changed into spiritual competition. They took the armor mentioned in Ephesians and claimed it was athletic and not military. The sword was to be like a javelin, able to be dexterous with the Word of God and use it like a javelin or something like that.
This came about, if memory serves me correct in 1980 when WC, the research guy suppposedly went to Germany or somewhere in Europe and had access to ancient microfiche copies of the bible and did his research and 'realized that all along the Word of God was really lending itself to athletic, olympian style competition' as opposed to the standard of the rest of the Christian world seeing the armor of Ephesians being military.
WC came back to HQ (if he really went there at all, if he really had access to those microfiche films, if any of that was true) and it was big breaking news, it was a spiritual competition and not a warfare scenario we were dealing with and hence Athletes of the Spirit production was being born.
(but let's not mention that John Travolta and Sylvester Stallone did it first in their dance movie and doncha know spiritualists saw TWI do it and gave the info to Sylvester STallone to copy TWI--yeah we were sane)
The whole MO of TWI was that they were never wrong. If they taught a doctrine in a 'new light' it was NOT because they were wrong prior, but because GOD gave them, the royal household of God (whatever they call it today), God's ministry special insight into the scriptures that NO ONE else had/has.
Big difference.
The whole MO of TWI is that everyone else is wrong, but them. Oh they may have given smidgeons of credit here and there, and VP may have dropped names here and there (which he did) but it was never to give creedence to anyone else but rather lend creedence to his own works.
LCM didn't necessarily come up with new doctrine. He played off of VP's rendition of the original sin being masturbation. Which class was that in? Christian family and Sex? That I can't remember. But VP uses some scripture, granted saying he hadn't fully documented it and never did, but he didn't need to, we all bought it anyway, about trees and trees VP said represented penises (is that the plural of that word?) in some instances of the bible. Tree of life, tree of good and evil and he equated the two.
So Eve was the first to fall and therefore if the original sin was masturbation, that is where LCM got that Eve was a lesbian...that I believe there are some lunatic theories that existed long before the likes of LCM and VP about Eve and the snake. For religious minds, those minds sure are dirty and corrupted.
Anyway, there are NO new doctrines in TWI; at best someone gets 'new revy' and builds upon the old doctrine but will NOT contradict it. Since VP never fully documented his theory, LCM was free to go ahead with the homosexuality slant on Adam and Eve. TWI as I said, never admitted a doctrine was wrong, ever, that I know of. How could they? It would go against their claims of being the only ministry with the rightly divided Word of God. There are no new doctrines in TWI. The issue with the pets are not new. It was said over and over again and believed that VP hated cats. He felt cats were of the devil because they were independent and disobedient. Do you know how many Corps men resisted getting cats even though their wives wanted them because of what they said VP taught about cats?
So the pet doctrine existed somewhere. The original sin existed as masturbation. All LCM did, well TWI allowed is to take these two existing stances and redress them up as new improved light. Does that mean now they are neglected or shelved doctrines if they are not being insisted on or taught with the same fevor as before? No, it's still there and when needed or when they need a new gimmick to grab people with, these or other forgotten about doctrines will get a make over and be paraded about.
I would really love to hear how LCM explained this in his class...It was hard for me to swallow (no pun intended) the whole masturbation thing in CF&S. In fact I never really did, it didn't make any sense. But I really would like to hear his twisted logic on this one, it is soooo far out there. Anybody got a copy?
I would really love to hear how LCM explained this in his class...It was hard for me to swallow (no pun intended) the whole masturbation thing in CF&S. In fact I never really did, it didn't make any sense. But I really would like to hear his twisted logic on this one, it is soooo far out there. Anybody got a copy?
Which the lesbian snake or the masturbating mother of all?
LCM basically just took Genesis 3:6,7 and gave every word in it a sexual spin. Said the "original" language had a lot of sexual connotations. Then he just blurts out that "Clearly the most cataclysmic sin throughout the Word is homosexuality" [Ro 1:26,27]
Then shows a painting by some famous European from hundreds of years ago and points to it as evidence.
the LC once showed us a book which supposedly had these words. I couldn't see it in there.
Which the lesbian snake or the masturbating mother of all?
Thanks Bolshevik!
The lesbian snake thing.
But you answered that. I know how he would rant on and on about "homos" like he had a demon by the tail and was bound and determined to hang on until it ran out of gas. If he hadn't hurt so many it would be laughable. But the pain he caused was no joke.
If he had been honestly working the word he would have seen that the most cataclysmic sin in the world is idolatry. It leads to everything else. But he was on such a crusade...
He really made me think even then that he was a homo in hetero sheep skin. No one chases demons that hard unless they are trying to catch the one that haunts them. (figuratively of course)
The teaching is on here in several places, Eyes. One of the links in my posts above will most likely lead you to it, otherwise you can use the search function in the top right corner of the screen. I'd suggest using the following search option: +eve +eyes +desire +satan
Somebody must know! Somebody call the Way receptionist.
YOU'RE the one who wants to know - the rest of us are already sure it's still being taught. Instead of ordering us around why don't YOU be the somebody to call? <_< It's really easy, I've done it quite a few times. Rico can be really nice when he doesn't know you're calling on behalf of the cafe.
The teaching is on here in several places, Eyes. One of the links in my posts above will most likely lead you to it, otherwise you can use the search function in the top right corner of the screen. I'd suggest using the following search option: +eve +eyes +desire +satan
Thanks Belle, Those links and posts were very enlightening.
On a personal note I must say that I really appreciate the manner in which you post. Your thoughts are well organized and comprehensive and you present convincing arguments.
YOU'RE the one who wants to know - the rest of us are already sure it's still being taught. Instead of ordering us around why don't YOU be the somebody to call? <_< It's really easy, I've done it quite a few times. Rico can be really nice when he doesn't know you're calling on behalf of the cafe. [/color]
Perhaps you're not appreciating satori's sense of humor?
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Belle
I get that, Tom. But, according to TWI doctrine, her whole family dynamic should disqualify her from being a leader, especially one in such a lofty position, no?
Would that I had kids to screw up, but thanks to my stupidity regarding TWI that appears very unlikely.
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Belle
Here’s some food for thought. Remember rosie took over in 2000:
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=24592
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=19751
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=20112
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=28819
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=33758
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=34065
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=67411
I have more, but can only post so many per reply.
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Belle
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?s=&showtopic=4242&view=findpost&p=67442
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=67708
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=72000
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Belle
The entire threads most of these quotes come from contain more good information, too.
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=72474
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=95831
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ost&p=96441
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Belle
http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...st&p=272321
It took over SIX YEARS to take the teaching out of their class AND they haven’t rescinded the teaching, corrected it, said it was wrong or apologized for subjecting folks to utter and total bunk – they just “quit teaching it” – It’s still referred to and believed and used in teachings I’d wager.
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ChasUFarley
One of those two women who lived in Rosie-lie's basement was very into the homohunt thing.... She loved smoking out faggots.
Oh, does the word "faggot" offend you?
So sorry. That was a DIRECT QUOTE!
LCM taught that when someone consented or did not confront a homosexual relationship or even thoughts about the act, that they were a homo-sympathizer. He taught that that was as bad as the act itself.
The two women who lived in RFR's basement moved out TOGETHER - as a couple. They had even bought each other rings at some point.
I'm sorry, but I've had the same best friend for almost 30 years now - we started as friends in second grade - WE HAVE NEVER bought rings for each other. Please!
I have NO DOUBT - not one iota - that those two were more than just girl friends.
I don't doubt that RFR and DM are more than just friends.... They vacationed exclusively in one bedroom at a resort - that wasn't as good stewardship to save your ABS, my friend. It was for a 24-hr drive-thru carpetburger whenever they wanted it - why else do two adults share a bed like THAT...? Especially when they have millions of dollars at their finger tips....
Gimme a break!
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satori001
Okay so they dropped the Eve-lesbian teaching. Sounds like Rivenbark is doing the best she can to undo some of the more glaring errors that Martindale was teaching. What else has she done lately?
By the way, it's good to see some background material for the readers who might be wondering where this subject is coming from. Much of it was from 2003 however, when I think there was probably a different truth working. Do we know what the present truth on the topic is?
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Bolshevik
It hasn't changed. Who said it changed?
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ChasUFarley
It hasn't changed.
They're taking on a "softer" approach.
But the Present Truth is still that it is a sin and those who are or do it should be outside the walls.
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satori001
If they removed Eve's original sin from the class, it's no longer an explicitly present truth but a past truth, or emeritus truth - which is like, still honored but retired. Or, come to think of it, The Way of Abundance and Power (?) might now have to include the implicit, present subjunctive truth rather than the complicit present indicative; whereas it is that past indicative truth, rather than the past subjunctive, from which is revealed the present indicative and/or subjunctive truths alike.
I remember when we thought it was the present continuous truth, which always conjugated seamlessly into the future perfect truth, but that's way in the past, presently. We were so naive back then.
Just ask John Linder on the Good Morning thead, where he'll see it. He's got to be an expert on all the different truths out there, past, present and future, in order to detect the Adversary's ways, and protect the household, and especially to tell the difference between what he's for and what he's against, which is constantly shifting, though eternal. It must get harder and harder every year.
John Linder! What say you, bro?
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excathedra
satori, after that paragraph, i'm convinced you should have taught corps night
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Belle
They're still teaching it and they're still kicking people out for being homosexual. Don't be fooled. You're smarter than that. <_<
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FullCircle
I AM totally confused.
All the time I spent in TWI, they never ever ever admitted being wrong on a doctrine or shelved a doctrine. Never.
Once it was taught, it stayed put.
The only way a doctrine was changed was that TWI claimed to have gotten new insight, new research new revelation on an already existing doctrine and taught it with the new light they received or whatever the hell it was they call it.
Example, The solidier of God, spiritual warfare was changed into spiritual competition. They took the armor mentioned in Ephesians and claimed it was athletic and not military. The sword was to be like a javelin, able to be dexterous with the Word of God and use it like a javelin or something like that.
This came about, if memory serves me correct in 1980 when WC, the research guy suppposedly went to Germany or somewhere in Europe and had access to ancient microfiche copies of the bible and did his research and 'realized that all along the Word of God was really lending itself to athletic, olympian style competition' as opposed to the standard of the rest of the Christian world seeing the armor of Ephesians being military.
WC came back to HQ (if he really went there at all, if he really had access to those microfiche films, if any of that was true) and it was big breaking news, it was a spiritual competition and not a warfare scenario we were dealing with and hence Athletes of the Spirit production was being born.
(but let's not mention that John Travolta and Sylvester Stallone did it first in their dance movie and doncha know spiritualists saw TWI do it and gave the info to Sylvester STallone to copy TWI--yeah we were sane)
The whole MO of TWI was that they were never wrong. If they taught a doctrine in a 'new light' it was NOT because they were wrong prior, but because GOD gave them, the royal household of God (whatever they call it today), God's ministry special insight into the scriptures that NO ONE else had/has.
Big difference.
The whole MO of TWI is that everyone else is wrong, but them. Oh they may have given smidgeons of credit here and there, and VP may have dropped names here and there (which he did) but it was never to give creedence to anyone else but rather lend creedence to his own works.
LCM didn't necessarily come up with new doctrine. He played off of VP's rendition of the original sin being masturbation. Which class was that in? Christian family and Sex? That I can't remember. But VP uses some scripture, granted saying he hadn't fully documented it and never did, but he didn't need to, we all bought it anyway, about trees and trees VP said represented penises (is that the plural of that word?) in some instances of the bible. Tree of life, tree of good and evil and he equated the two.
So Eve was the first to fall and therefore if the original sin was masturbation, that is where LCM got that Eve was a lesbian...that I believe there are some lunatic theories that existed long before the likes of LCM and VP about Eve and the snake. For religious minds, those minds sure are dirty and corrupted.
Anyway, there are NO new doctrines in TWI; at best someone gets 'new revy' and builds upon the old doctrine but will NOT contradict it. Since VP never fully documented his theory, LCM was free to go ahead with the homosexuality slant on Adam and Eve. TWI as I said, never admitted a doctrine was wrong, ever, that I know of. How could they? It would go against their claims of being the only ministry with the rightly divided Word of God. There are no new doctrines in TWI. The issue with the pets are not new. It was said over and over again and believed that VP hated cats. He felt cats were of the devil because they were independent and disobedient. Do you know how many Corps men resisted getting cats even though their wives wanted them because of what they said VP taught about cats?
So the pet doctrine existed somewhere. The original sin existed as masturbation. All LCM did, well TWI allowed is to take these two existing stances and redress them up as new improved light. Does that mean now they are neglected or shelved doctrines if they are not being insisted on or taught with the same fevor as before? No, it's still there and when needed or when they need a new gimmick to grab people with, these or other forgotten about doctrines will get a make over and be paraded about.
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Bolshevik
It's no longer in the foundational class. But I don't know if they just moved it to the intermediate class.
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satori001
Somebody must know! Somebody call the Way receptionist.
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Eyesopen
I would really love to hear how LCM explained this in his class...It was hard for me to swallow (no pun intended) the whole masturbation thing in CF&S. In fact I never really did, it didn't make any sense. But I really would like to hear his twisted logic on this one, it is soooo far out there. Anybody got a copy?
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Bolshevik
Which the lesbian snake or the masturbating mother of all?
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FullCircle
good thing LCM and TWI aren't ancient greeks, I would hate to see the spin they would put on Pandora and her box.
ooops sorry.
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Bolshevik
LCM basically just took Genesis 3:6,7 and gave every word in it a sexual spin. Said the "original" language had a lot of sexual connotations. Then he just blurts out that "Clearly the most cataclysmic sin throughout the Word is homosexuality" [Ro 1:26,27]
Then shows a painting by some famous European from hundreds of years ago and points to it as evidence.
the LC once showed us a book which supposedly had these words. I couldn't see it in there.
but hey, oil paintings are proof enough.
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Eyesopen
Thanks Bolshevik!
The lesbian snake thing.
But you answered that. I know how he would rant on and on about "homos" like he had a demon by the tail and was bound and determined to hang on until it ran out of gas. If he hadn't hurt so many it would be laughable. But the pain he caused was no joke.
If he had been honestly working the word he would have seen that the most cataclysmic sin in the world is idolatry. It leads to everything else. But he was on such a crusade...
He really made me think even then that he was a homo in hetero sheep skin. No one chases demons that hard unless they are trying to catch the one that haunts them. (figuratively of course)
Just thinking...
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Belle
The teaching is on here in several places, Eyes. One of the links in my posts above will most likely lead you to it, otherwise you can use the search function in the top right corner of the screen. I'd suggest using the following search option: +eve +eyes +desire +satan
YOU'RE the one who wants to know - the rest of us are already sure it's still being taught. Instead of ordering us around why don't YOU be the somebody to call? <_< It's really easy, I've done it quite a few times. Rico can be really nice when he doesn't know you're calling on behalf of the cafe.
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Abigail
ROFLMAOPMP Thanks FC, I needed a good laugh
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Eyesopen
Thanks Belle, Those links and posts were very enlightening.
On a personal note I must say that I really appreciate the manner in which you post. Your thoughts are well organized and comprehensive and you present convincing arguments.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Perhaps you're not appreciating satori's sense of humor?
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