Let's Talk about The Way Corps

[doojable]

Rascal, If you're talking about each and every leaf on the Way tree - then every person could be both victim and abuser.

I don't know quite how to state what I'm feeling here - but it's something to the effect of "that's life." So many of us were looking and searching for something more. We thought we found it. For many of us, when it became apparent that the man behind the curtain was really not a wizard at all - we left OZ, ruby slippers or not.

It is what it is. I feel for those hurt, and I have tried to help who I can when and where I can. I'm fairly sure that's true for a lot of people. We made mistakes - sure. And yes, I know that some folks liked the power that came from being in the inner circle - but I'm not one to paint this with a broad brush - that just seems like something the MOG's did.

I'm not heartless nor am I naiive. I just would rather move ahead and do good rather than lament what I didn't do because I didn't know any better. I can only be responsible for myself - so it's difficult for me to take responsibility for someone who did take advantage of others and abused what little power they could garnish from all this. (NO I never covered for anyone, though I know of many non-corps who covered a lot for some real seedy characters. They did it twenty years ago and are continuing to do so today.)

The vicious circle has to stop somewhere. I started my tangent over twenty years ago. Some people are starting their's today as they learn how to change their walk from a lockstep to a stroll.

So - did the WC help vpw? - Yes - for a time. They also helped take twi down when they left en masse.

There were many who were never Corps that were yes men and did far worst.

I'm not sure I've made a point here - but I have at least put these thoughts down and presented them.

We can flame each other for eternity - what good will it do?

Edited March 28, 2007 by doojable

[Jeaniam]

Thank you very much, Simon Zealotes, Lifted Up, and Doojable. You made some points far better than I ever could. I had some very negative experiences in twi, but I don't blame the whole organisation for them, just the immaturity of the other people involved. Men may have let me down, God never has.

[doojable]

Rascal said,

"Our selfless love, our innocent enthusiasm was what lent an air of legitimacy to twi."

I don't usually quote Scripture - but isn't there something about love never failing?

I have to believe that whenever I did something right -whether I understood it or not - that I ended up making a difference. Sure, I may have helped to legitimize the cult - but when I left that endorsement left as well. So, because I gained the trust of a few people they may have joined the cult but they also followed me when I left and didn't let the door hit them on the .......

[rascal]

Dooj, I guess I don`t understand what you mean, who exactly is NOT moving forward trying to do better? Who isn`t trying to help one another?

I feel like you are saying that the soul searching and struggle to come to grips and understanding irritates you. Please tell me if I am mistaken.

As I see it, each of us moves forward on the path that they chose. Each has impact in a unique and special way that maybe no other can achieve.

Some don`t care to look back, Others need to in order to understand in order to insure what mistakes not to make in the future.

Neither is wrong, what I think would be a mistake is to decide our personal path of growth was the best or only way.

Edited March 28, 2007 by rascal

[FullCircle]

Well,If I'm going to be part of a collective group that is going to be singled out for any kind of blame for something,I guess it would be good to know what I'm exactly being blamed for....If we're going to blame the way corps collectively,we'd have to assume that everyone who ever followed the way was collectively worse off because they joined...While the collective opinion at greasespot may be that twi was all bad and did little more than hurt people,that isn't a universally shared belief by every follower or former follower of the way...

I won't get into the specifics,but I suppose in my way corpse years I thought of myself as being part of some sort of fountain of living waters,and at the time I believed anybody and everybody's life could be improved by involving themselve's in way teachings...As it became clearer that the way was just another broken sistern,then it was time to move on...Let people find their own truth...There are people who I led that are happily involved in offshoots or in their own cozy,peaceful Christian existence somewhere---should I tell them I'm sorry for helping screw up their lives? While I don't doubt that every ex-follower of the way was at some point disappointed in or by the ministry and therefore left or were kicked out,I don't believe that 'disappointed' equals 'hurt'...

I know you and you know me and my hubby. You and him used to be roofing buddies together ;) ;) Know who I am now?? (don't say it outloud!! I will have him call you )

You are one of the exceptions in my life that truly made a difference for the good. You and your house treated people like they should be treated, with respect, love, kindness and compassion. My husband and I owe you a great deal when we came to counsel with you about me being pregnant and we weren't married yet...my hubby and I that is. The Corps leadership from the area I lived in were on my back, without me asking for their advice, but butted in telling me to abort the child. These were the same Corps people/branch leaders who didn't want me to get married in the first place. (By the way for the readers out there, I was thirty years old at the time)

My hubby who was my fiance then and I moved back by you all and you and your wife counseled us and used good reasoning, mature reasoning and advised us to keep the baby. Which we did. This baby is now excelling in college, Dean's List and is going to be a doctor.

So yes, you and your wife were living waters to us and gave us some of that and it has continued to give life ...literally as oppossed to those who counciled us with words of death.

So I do thank you from the bottom of my heart. Words can't express it enough.

In context of this thread, I will say this:

For myself, I have sought out to apologize to those I felt I sold out either through ignorance or fear while in TWI or that I hurt even without meaning to while in TWI. It's a balance, where I did good, I will take the credit. Where I did not so good, I will take the blame and learn from it,learn about myself why I allowed it to happen or why it did happen, learn what I need to learn so that it doesn't happen again.

Some Way Corps were lifelines, in a very real sense. Others I would like to kick in the shins. Then again, there are some I feel that way about in normal life away from TWI.

Those in the Way Corps who did me the most damage were the ordained clergy. I had to rewrite that sentence because I apologized before saying that. *slaps myself* The ordained clergy also did the least for me in TWI and caused the greatest mental/emotional harm. Some may become very upset with me over that and have testimony upon testimony about how Rev. SoSo helped them and no matter how true that can be, it is NOT true for me.

How does having mini MOGS looming over us fit into the equation of supporting and enabling TWI to continue as it did? By mini Mogs I mean those whom we were taught had gift ministries, had been singled out for that, who walked by all nine all the time and all that jazz?

We can't stop at the Way Corps. TWI needed everyone to cooperate in order to do its damage. Us in the field who worked and sent money for ABS and sponorship, who had the houses to hold meetings all the way up to the head cheese.

Edited March 28, 2007 by FullCircle

[johniam]

quote: Sure, I may have helped to legitimize the cult -

This reminds me of 9/11. Those extremists who caused 9/11 feel that the USA is evil. Not just the politicians, but all Americans "legitimize the evil" so of course it's OK to kill 3000 plus innocent Americans. They're ALL guilty, right? That's how those people think.

TWI was not 100% evil. Much good was done there. The WC participated in both the good and the evil. Like I said, they had an impact. That's what they were supposed to do. To lay a blanket condemnation on just WC much more all TWIers is absurd.

[doojable]

Rascal - I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not accusing anyone of not moving forward, or trying to do better, or helping others.

I know some real life folks in some of those categories - but I discuss this type of thing with them - in real life.

Mostly, I was speaking about myself and my endeavors to move ahead. I never meant to imply that there aren't many others with the same mindset. Again, I don't paint things with a broad brushstroke. I'm fairly adamant about not making sweeping generalizations.

Edited March 28, 2007 by doojable

[Jeaniam]

Neither is wrong, what I think would be a mistake is to decide our personal path of growth was the best or only way.

Rascal, do you never realise that that is exactly what you have done?

[rascal]

Thanks for the clarification Dooj. I actually thought you were referring to me (obviously) peace friend :)

Jean, I just don`t think so so :)

Edited March 28, 2007 by rascal

[Jeaniam]

Jean, I just don`t think so so :)

Well, then maybe God is helping you move to a path of greater understanding.

[sprawled out]

Men may have let me down, God never has.

i don't mean to derail, but why is it that God gets off the hook? blame the Corps, but don't blame God? we make excuses for God all the time (e.g., we walked out from under His hand of protection, we didn't listen, etc., etc.), but if He let our pure-hearted intentions to love and serve Him be used and abused, maybe He did let us down.

[Jeaniam]

i don't mean to derail, but why is it that God gets off the hook? blame the Corps, but don't blame God? we make excuses for God all the time (e.g., we walked out from under His hand of protection, we didn't listen, etc., etc.), but if He let our pure-hearted intentions to love and serve Him be used and abused, maybe He did let us down.

I am not attempting to blame the Corps for anything. The incidents I was referring to occurred on my WOW year between myself and people who never availed themselves of Corps training. Many of the people I was aquainted with who DID avail themselves of that training were some of the finest people I ever met. No, I don't believe God lets us down, but as we have been taught even God can't overcome man's freedom of will. If a man is determined to be ignorant and hurtful, then he will, and not even God can stop him. BTW, I still have one of your tapes.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Jeaniam

[rascal]

All the time Jean, all the time. I don`t doubt that for a single miniute.

Good point sprawled. It would be my guess he has to let us do as we please and work within whatever window or frame work that our bull headed stubbornness will allow...lol

And BECAUSE he seems to have worked in our lives in spite of the evil practiced by our religious group, we seem to automatically assume that makes US right in our doctrine and understanding.

Edited March 28, 2007 by rascal

[sprawled out]

BTW, I still have one of your tapes.

tapes?

[Jeaniam]

tapes?

Someone once told me you were a part of the Eleventh Corp band 'Called Out'. I still have one of their tapes and enjoy listening to it very much. If they were mistaken, I apologise.

In reference to what you said about blaming the Corps but letting God off the hook, perhaps we should consider the story of Joseph. Here is a man who repeatedly got screwed by people but continued to trust God, and God continued to come through for him. His own brothers were so envious of him that they were on the verge of killing him but sold him as a slave as an acceptable substitute. In Egypt, he was bought by a rank unbeliever and rose to a position of great respect. Then his owner's wife lied about him and he was thrown in jail, where once again he trusted God, and rose to a position of great respect. Then a friend promised to intercede with Pharoah on his behalf and forgot about him for two years until Pharoah had a dream that needed interpretation. Then in a short period of time he was released from prison, elvated to the position of second man in the kingdom, showered with honors, and given a wife. Nowhere in that story is it recorded that he became bitter at his treatment, blamed God or other people for his treatment, lost faith, or turned his back on God, of any of the other self-pitying options that were no doubt available to him. It IS recorded that he continued to trust God, and God came through for him. Isn't it possible that God will come through for us if we continue to trust him?

Thanks for listening.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Jeaniam

[likeaneagle]

I took a stand within myself....I have no one to blame..

it's not within me to drudge other's thru the muck...Ive thought about it....It just doesnt work..I left in 2000.I was in during various strategic points and was also hurt...

Ive known many good Corp who hurt deeply inside...because they were betrayed too!!

no more muck for me..

this topic reminds me a little tattle tailer...

Sorry, your stories are much better:)

Edited March 28, 2007 by likeaneagle

[sprawled out]

Someone once told me you were a part of the Eleventh Corp band 'Called Out'. I still have one of their tapes and enjoy listening to it very much. If they were mistaken, I apologise.

glad you like it!

In reference to what you said about blaming the Corps but letting God off the hook, perhaps we should consider the story of Joseph. Here is a man who repeatedly got screwed by people but continued to trust God, and God continued to come through for him. His own brothers were so envious of him that they were on the verge of killing him but sold him as a slave as an acceptable substitute. In Egypt, he was bought by a rank unbeliever and rose to a position of great respect. Then his owner's wife lied about him and he was thrown in jail, where once again he trusted God, and rose to a position of great respect. Then a friend promised to intercede with Pharoah on his behalf and forgot about him for two years until Pharoah had a dream that needed interpretation. Then in a short period of time he was released from prison, elvated to the position of second man in the kingdom, showered with honors, and given a wife. Nowhere in that story is it recorded that he became bitter at his treatment, blamed God or other people for his treatment, lost faith, or turned his back on God, of any of the other self-pitying options that were no doubt available to him. It IS recorded that he continued to trust God, and God came through for him. Isn't it possible that God will come through for us if we continue to trust him?

i really don't want to get into a big back-and-forth about this, but it seems to me God could've done something to get him out of the original dilemma--but then, that wasn't part of His plan, was it? God needed joseph in egypt, so that zzzzzzzzzz....sorry, i dozed off.

[Bolshevik]

It seems strange to assign blame to people as if on trial but be unable to "punish" them for the crime. To blame a person or group for all the problems is probably the easy thing to do. Perhaps it is something more intangible that needs to be identified. Some sort of concept, idea, practice or character flaw in each of us. Like most of us would agree a totalitarian government is a poor practice or having a drug addiction is undesirable. These things lead to more problems.

Assuming VP and/or everyone else began with good intentions, what was the one mistake that lead to more?

[doojable]

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Edited March 28, 2007 by doojable

[Out There]

It's all my fault. I'll admit it! All my power went straight to my Medula and corrupted it.

[doojable]

I knew it!

[Dot Matrix]

To paraphrase as I cannot find it -

The corps may have gotten us into this (TWI) but they also help to lead us out (Something like that)

Anyway, I loved it.

[Jeaniam]

Maybe we had unreasonable expectations of the Way Corps. We allowed ouirselves to forget that they are fallible human beings like all the rest of us, and put them on some sort of pedestal just one step below Jesus Christ himself. Some of the Corps grads that I remember with great affection remained uncorrupted by power (absolute or otherwise).

[doojable]

Some of the Way Corps had unreasonable expectations of themselves. Some of it was placed on them by higher ups. Some was self-inflicted. Some of it came in the believers that waited on the WC to walk on water just because they spent two years getting what amounted to little more than an associates degree.

[Jeaniam]

Some of the Way Corps had unreasonable expectations of themselves. Some of it was placed on them by higher ups. Some was self-inflicted. Some of it came in the believers that waited on the WC to walk on water just because they spent two years getting what amounted to little more than an associates degree.

Your observations are valid, and I don't doubt that for a minute, especially in later years as twi became more and more religious. This is something you clearly have more firsthand knowledge about, since I never went through the WC training, but the WC men and women that I remember with affection were, and are, men and women who managed to balance knowledge and heart. And if they erred at all, tried to err on the side of too much heart rather than too much knowledge. I appreciated your comments about if there were people you hurt by getting them involved with twi in its later years they followed you out when you left.