Ms. Shroyer on Depression

[oenophile]

A friend of mine who recently returned from a CFF women's advance in N.C. heard Tonya Shroyer remark in a teaching that people who are depressed may be possessed.

As someone who has struggled with depression, I am aghast at the dark stigma that Ms. Shroyer seems to want to perpetuate at those of us who get up every day, take our meds, function at our jobs and contribute to the well being of our communities. Just when the public attitude toward mental illness seems to be changing by degrees, even if ever so slightly, because of recent observable scientific evidence of physical causes of mental illness, such a priori statements as Tonya Shroyer's cast a pall over the progress that has been made and seems to look fondly back upon the Dark Ages.

Edited March 20, 2007 by oenophile

[Ductape]

Sorry, but I really thought a maybe was a big move in the right direction for an ex-TWI bunch. LCM dealt in absolutes not possibilities. I have a relative that is a great intelligent person disabled by mental illness. I know ex-TWI folks that are told stay away from these boards as they are all on meds. and they continue to blindly follow VPW.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Ductape

[oenophile]

Maybe, isn't that a step up from is?

And isn't this the daughter you are calling Mrs?

Can CFF get its own room?

Ductape,

Your quibbling is noted.

Paw,

Would you be kind enough to change Mrs. to Ms.

Edited March 20, 2007 by oenophile

[Danny]

She is speaking for the devil himself.

Good job if that's not back to the old twi. Same sheet diffent letters

What do any of the know about mental wholeness.

Look at their beliefs they are depressing.

[Danny]

Maybe I shouldn't get mad.

She they need prayers.

Ignorant. Stupid. Was she raised in a corn field?

Where ever did she study to come up with that crap.

Makes me really want to fellowship with them.

Sheet flows downhill.

Where will any of there people get help when they

are so igorant.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

In the middle ages, holes were drilled into the skulls of people who were considered crazy... to allow the demons to escape...I would guess that Ms. Shroyer would probably suggest a different treatment to the problem but nevertheless believes in the same problem...

Religious superstitions and intolerance have always resisted advancements in understanding...

[RottieGrrrl]

I had a lady (ex-wayfer) tell me I was possessed a few years ago. She had a good heart, but she could be a real pain in the butt. The fact is telling people they are possessed (even if they really think you are) isn't generally going to help people. You can start to go way off the deep end with that stuff. Man, she would be naming devil spirits (like she knew all the names) and I finally was like "hey, would you please knock it off? I want to be able to sleep at night."

[now I see]

Ok, now I'm confused, was this John Shroyer's wife, the ones who lead CFF or is it their son's corn fed wife who spoke at the ROA big top tent  one year on how she loved (worshipped) the Royals (the royal family) in Brittan?

Even vpw spoke on casting out of devil spirits being in the category of healing, and not used to club someone over the head with.  Anything in the sickness category, even depression, can be either organic or spiritual, how come no one ever remembers that?

Edited March 20, 2007 by but now I see

[ChasUFarley]

LCM was nonetookind about it either... he referred to therapists as people who you pay to be your friend and threatened anyone who went outside of the "household" for help with getting confronted about it...

I don't think that anything I hear about these guys now would suprise me any...

Personally, I think Ms. Shroyer oughta team up with Tom Cruise and go on a "toss away your valium and prozac" campaign.

[oenophile]

Even vpw spoke on casting out of devil spirits being in the category of healing, and not used to club someone over the head with. Anything in the sickness category, even depression, can be either organic or spiritual, how come no one ever remembers that?

It depended on which side of the bed VPW got out of bed that day that determined if he was the going to be soft, cuddly figure that you fondly recall or the foaming one who lambasted any perceived weakness in people as having demonic origins. How come you don't remember that?

Edited March 20, 2007 by oenophile

[VeganXTC]

What scripture did she use to back up her statement? I can't find any verse that even remotely says, "Depression might be caused by possession."

There are many mental illnesses that are treatable, but TWI, and now CFF, has caused people to be afraid to seek help. UGH!

[Radar OReilly]

Rev Tonya Shroyer is married to Jeff Shroyer, the son of John and Mary Lou Shroyer.

I remember what it was like to see life in such black and white terms, "this is from God, this other thing is from the devil." I am so glad that I have grown past that and have taken the time to learn that life is a full spectrum of color.

Radar

[likeaneagle]

How can one learn anything from anyone who makes such bold statements...how can this be ministering to a heart of ones who suffer's...Its empty and thoughtless thinking that hurts people..is this how the Body serves one another...is thier a concern for former twi women who suffer....there is a fine line....and when one makes comments like this without bringing closure to the hearer's, they should be ready to restore..

I would expect that they will do that!!

[Bramble]

I feel so bad for those in these groups who are trying to deal with depression by stop thought renewed mind techniques.

How do those techniques help with other symptoms, like loss of concentration, sleep issues or short term memory issues?

There is alot more to depression than sad/bad thoughts!

Ignorance all around.

[waterbuffalo]

A friend of mine who recently returned from a CFF women's advance in N.C. heard Tonya Shroyer remark in a teaching that people who are depressed may be possessed.

As someone who has struggled with depression, I am aghast at the dark stigma that Ms. Shroyer seems to want to perpetuate at those of us who get up every day, take our meds, function at our jobs and contribute to the well being of our communities. Just when the public attitude toward mental illness seems to be changing by degrees, even if ever so slightly, because of recent observable scientific evidence of physical causes of mental illness, such a priori statements as Tonya Shroyer's cast a pall over the progress that has been made and seems to look fondly back upon the Dark Ages.

This is the kind of teaching I would expect from CFF. Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

The Middle Ages comment was quite appropo about superstition, et al. It's a good reminder that these people have no credentials and really don't know what they're talking about.

[I Love Bagpipes]

Well, I guess I'll chime in. I was at the meeting and am the one who shared the info with Oenophile. I count Oeno as a good friend and do not have any qualms with him bringing up what I shared with him.

I too have dealt with deep depression and still have bouts with slight depression. I manage the illness now mainly with nutrition, cognitive therapy, writing, and support from a few close friends; occasionally I need medication.

In defense of Tonia, she did not make a blanket statement. I believe Tonia's motive is love and her desire is to help others. She stated depression could possibly be caused by a devil spirit. She did not present her statement with an accusatory tone; but rather with a view toward helping someone overcome in particular areas. She also shared a situation regarding herself when she was ministered to for deliverance from a spirit. She stated that she had had problems with the word "possession," but then recognized "possession" is used in the Word; so therefore, that is what it God calls it when someone has trouble with a spirit. I did not take notes and do not recall the scripture verses shared during the teaching.

My opinion? I don't think treatment can be dictated; what works for one may not work for someone else. If someone feels that by being ministered to to rid a spirit will work for him/her...and it works....praise God. If someone utilizes acupuncture, meds, nutrition, hypnotherapy, homeopathy, etc. to get help...and something works...praise God. I really don't give a flip how it happens; but just that a person gets help.

That's my 2 cents. Maybe it made some sense.

[pond]

so your possessed?

what is the point?

they cant love you anymore?

Jesus commands we love one another and he didnt say only if everyone is happy and never ill.

is this not disobedience?

oh i get maybe you should love from a distance you know fake it in front of their face pretend and accuse behind the back of them being less than who they are to the lord and certainly a lesser disciple of christ.

again go to the sermon Jesus spoke at the last supper when they asked who was the greastes he said it is the one who serves the other.

kind of mean and sick thinking isnt it?

so what they are possessed now what? you have the news what is the next step? kill them hate them or just stay away from them?

wwjd?

Edited March 20, 2007 by pond

[likeaneagle]

wellllll........

Im glad this wasnt a blanket statement...

[pond]

it seems to me a person would avoid admitting to being sad or depressed because of the shame of being possessed.

does that make reality unreal or the person better ?

[oenophile]

I love Bagpipes knows that I love her and her husband. She and he have been very helpful to me through some very difficult times.

Tonya's motives may be as pure as the driven snow but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.

She stated depression could possibly be caused by a devil spirit.

So now I and others who are out of the closet regarding depression and other mental disorders have to live under the cloud of suspicion that we could possibly be possessed. Are our words here now weighed to be in the balance of "genuine spiritual suspicion?"

Edited March 20, 2007 by oenophile

[waterbuffalo]

Hey Pipes,

Thanks for clarifying that. Still, it is just warmed up twi teaching and they aren't the only ones--Evangelicals teach the same thing.

Do you know anyone who has been "ministered to" for this and had a devil cast out and is now better? This is a serious question because if there are cases when someone recovered via this route and never had trouble with depression again, I would love to hear about it :-)

(I am talking more like 5 or 10 yrs. ago, not 2 or 3 mos. ago type thing :-)

There are all kinds of deliverance ministers out there who, for a price, will cast any number of things out of their clients, but I have never heard of any who had a genuine deliverance from those sessions.

[I Love Bagpipes]

The part I wanted to quote from your post oeno wouldn't post. (??) So I've copied and pasted it:

Oeno stated: "Those who are inclined to so relegate us may kiss my a$$."

I agree whole heartedly, and I think you know that. The question that comes into play is the cloud of suspiscion. I guess I lived with that cloud so long in TWI, that I have decided if that is someone's thinking, then that person doesn't understand and is wearing blinders. If an individual judges me, they have to answer before their god in regards to thinking evil toward me for my weaknesses (and I have a bunch.... )

Oenophile (I think) knows how much I love him as well and how highly I think of him. In fact he has been one of my main supports when I have gone through depressive stuff since leaving TWI and he has always been there.

I am not trying to justify Tonia's statement, but trying to clarify. Do I agree with her statement? Honestly, I don't know. I am currently questioning so much of what I have been taught, that I don't know. And Oeno knows how much I am questioning everything.

I do stick by my opinion that if something works for a person....praise God. That doesn't mean it will work for someone else.

[I Love Bagpipes]

Hey Pipes,

Thanks for clarifying that. Still, it is just warmed up twi teaching and they aren't the only ones--Evangelicals teach the same thing.

Do you know anyone who has been "ministered to" for this and had a devil cast out and is now better? This is a serious question because if there are cases when someone recovered via this route and never had trouble with depression again, I would love to hear about it :-)

(I am talking more like 5 or 10 yrs. ago, not 2 or 3 mos. ago type thing :-)

There are all kinds of deliverance ministers out there who, for a price, will cast any number of things out of their clients, but I have never heard of any who had a genuine deliverance from those sessions.

I've only heard generic instances, so personally I do not know anyone ministered to for depression as a devil spirit that has been healed..or at least I do not recall an instance. I personally was ministerd to in this area regarding shame. I must admit that the deep shame has not come back, but I have still experienced shame. The deep shame and the "surface" shame are different and I would have to ponder it some to see if I could articlate the difference.

Was it a devil spirit? That is the question in my mind. Or was it a plaebo effect result. I do not use the word placebo deragatorily or haphazardly. Placebos work...I have been the receiver of such. Norman Cousins in his book Anatomy of an Illness has a illuminating and praiseworthy chapter regarding the placebo effect.

I am a firm believer in mind/body medicine and a person's beliefs do come into play. But that is just a part of the healing ingredients.

Did any of that make any sense at all? If not I can try to clarify but don't know how successful I'll be. (shrug)

btw: Waterbuffalo!!!

[QuietThinker]

I am late to this thread, but, thank you for pointing me here Oenophile :)

Although it's often regarded as a boutique illness, Depression is, without doubt, one of the most misunderstood conditions treated by the medical community. A simple case of depression is never just that, and I want to thank you, Oeno, for opening up this topic for discussion.

There is still stigma attached, in some cases real and some cases perceived, to that admission of emotional disorders, mental disorders, and in taking the medications attached to them. While it is true that there are many modes of treatment available today for a broad spectrum of concerns, I feel it important to just mention that just "telling someone" the good things about his or her life and why they should just "get over it" is not at all useful to the discussion of the disorder.

I'm not saying anyone here has done this. I'm speaking more broadly than that.

I intend to think on this a while, before posting again.

~QT

[excathedra]

It depended on which side of the bed VPW got out of bed that day that determined if he was the going to be soft, cuddly figure that you fondly recall or the foaming one who lambasted any perceived weakness in people as having demonic origins. How come you don't remember that?

you could say it depended on with whom he got out of bed that day.....

now that's depressing

to me, shroyer's outfit seems twi incarnated