I remember the terror after leaving too. Well I didn`t leave, my husband refused to play ball. I still went to fellowship religiously to try to keep satan from killing us.....but I lived in constant fear, waiting for disaster to strike us.
I cried and begged him to tithe....I knew that it was the only thing that would keep us alive. I prayed, I started living my old wow commitment as much as possible...1st 30 miniutes in prayer and the bible, we ran non twi bible studies, etc not because I felt led to, but was trying to avert catastrophy.
Guys...I HATED my spouse for putting my children and ourselves in such danger. I despised him for his weakness in commitment and the consequences that his family would have to pay.....
Everyday was a day of stress and suspense waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I went to fellowship no matter how nasty they became because I felt it was my only chance to protect the children.
When bad things happened, I tearfully admitted to the tc that it was no doubt due to our lack of tithe and was patted on the back for being so honest and brave.
I felt it was so unfair that my family was suffering because of my husbands bull headed stubborness....I felt a kinship with jobs wife....we were all gonna die and it was HIS fault.
Lol can you tell I was a gem to live with in those years??
I look back at those years and marvel at how much fear was a part of twi`s doctrine and practice.
We were so proud of our knowledge of the scriptures, our understanding of the *truth*, our spiritual stand.
What did it get us? Certainly not the quiet peace of knowing God as our sufficiency and Jesus as our shepherd...shrug
Yeah Act2, I know that OMG feeling. It was like an endless panic attack.... The phone would ring and I wondered if my leaving caused a family member some harm, or a back fire made me afraid something happened cause I left --- One thing, that did help me, was I went "to see someone" and when I began to tell her she said "You are not that powerful...."
It helped me and that layer left. And the other day I realized how many more subsurface layers there still were.
But prior to my seeing "someone," the actual FEAR they laid in me (the punishment for leaving TWI) became BELIEVING. I would drive to work and be frightened of any car near me, OMG please don't let them hit me, I had to leave TWI to surrvive.... Pls God The fear was palletable.
*fear was palletable* you know I had forgotten just how intensely frightening every moment was....I didn`t leave the farm, if I could help it> Every trip to town, to the pediatrician, to the grocery store was an opportunity to catch a fatal disease or die in a wreck.
I had to stop my favorite passion of rescuing and fostering animals because of fear of rabies.
Each subsequent pregnancy had me convinced I would die in child birth, leaving my other babies homeless....sigh
We stayed in twi out of fear for consequences... the suspense of waiting for the promised catastrophy when we left was awfull.
I thank God for Greasespot, for the posters that have helped me work past all of this.
What you are all posting about being terrified when you left twi... that is the ONE and only one reason I am so thankful I waited as long as I did before leaving.
I was unhappy for a long, long time. And I had really gotten "almost" to the point of leaving. I actually told myself I didn't care if God did turn his back on me, I couldn't take life the way I was living it any more!
Fortunately, by the time I left, the Allen lawsuit had hit, I had discussed the issues with my leadership, spouse, online, etc.
I had already come to the conclusion that it was THEM not ME a few months before I got booted. (my ONE regret, I let them boot me before I told them to take a hike)
I worried about if divorcing my husband was something God would frown at, but I never worried once about leaving twi.
Love of money may be the root of all evil, but I think fear is the main tool that the evil one uses to steal, kill, and destroy.
I was never corps, just a staffer. But don't think for a second that TWI's BS didn't damage everyone it touched. Everyone that bought into
the doctrines was damaged to some degree or another.
For the last two years before I left, I had developed intense panic/anxiety attacks...and didn't understand why! Every time
some one had a meeting of any kind, I could hardly breathe, or function the whole time. If I was called on to manefest or pray, I'd
almost pass out. The internal condemnation was so severe that I thought I was posessed. I was more scared than at any other time
in my life. Then a dear, true friend noticed and spoke some, what I believe were, inspired words to me and broke the fear's hold on
my mind just long enough for me to comprehend my situation. I gave them my two week notice the next day, and two weeks later my family and I
were gone/escaped!!
That was all fine and good....but it took 12 years to rebuild my life after that...guess I'm a slow learner!?!?!? :wacko:
Yeah, the fear had grown slowly and steadily, like a cancer. The only two paths to stop it, that I could see, was to buy into their lifestyle,
or get the he!! out of Dodge!! I cried many nights for my closest friends that I left behind.
The way I see it, Jesus, being a personal saviour, takes on a whole new meaning when I see all the amazingly different ways people here
are getting deliverance/healing. Whether or not the deliverance seems biblical/religous, quick or slow, don't mean crap...all that matters is that it happens!!
The way I see it, Jesus, being a personal saviour, takes on a whole new meaning when I see all the amazingly different ways people here are getting deliverance/healing. Whether or not the deliverance seems biblical/religous, quick or slow, don't mean crap...all that matters is that it happens!!
I only wish some of the critical folks who zoom through these forums and make remarks like, "Why can't you people just get over it?" could understand what you just wrote!!
I wrote to someone recently: This place is "healing-in-progress". The people you are calling whiners and complainers are actually people who are still wounded, talking about their wounds, salving their wounds, dresssing their wounds, and getting healed. What you don't see is all those who have come, found the healing they needed, and moved on, better for their time spent here on these forums. To be critical of what's happening here is like walking into a hospital and complaining that all these sick folks are just lying around the place moaning with pain, when they should be just moving beyond it and getting on with their lives. You wouldn't dream of doing such a thing there. Don't do it here, either.
When reading through this thread, I keep thinking of Africa and the absolute dire poverty, both physical, financial and mental which exists here. And NO hope of escape (have you been following the boat people leaving Senegal for Spain?).
The sickness people live with here and zero hope of hospital care includes not being able to afford even the most basic medical attention! The aids statistics in South Africa comes readily to my mind, wiping out generations, not just there but all over sub- Saharan Africa. Well I think you know, I could go on and on and on...
But in short I would say that this continent of Africa has so many MILLIONS of patients with NO HOPE in this world, that I would be hard pressed to find a comparison, especially in the world’s richest nation! Remember, “if you have a roof over your head, and something to eat, be thankful”!
That being said, I came up with a few Biblical scriptures which hopefully will be appropriate and helpful for those who have been abused or “allowed” themselves to be. I believe Scripture is one of the great keys to spiritual and physical recovery together with people like those here at GS.
Romans 8:18 “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy...”
Philippians 3:13,14 “forgetting those things which are behind and striving...”, “press toward the mark”...
Ephesians 5:16 “redeeming the time”...
ll Timothy 1:7 “ For God hath not given us the spirit of fear”....
As the Islamic microphones continue to blast their way around the planet creating fear and unrest, behind their “works” lies THEIR commitment. As we nurse our wounds the enemy advances his cause. Who will be left standing?
Nice post, Bumpy... It certainly is easy for us to look at things only from our own limited scope. Keeping a wider lense can help any of us keep things in better perspective, I'm sure.
Really and truly, reading through this thread has brought home to me just how far I've come in the past several years. When you find yourself actually surprised to remember how much fear was a daily part of your existence... wow. That's progress!!
Nice post, Bumpy... It certainly is easy for us to look at things only from our own limited scope. Keeping a wider lense can help any of us keep things in better perspective, I'm sure.
That was an easy response, but it is getting late here in West Africa, and I don't really know what you mean by "our, (or your), limited scope"? You have been posting here a long time along "way corps" lines which you made clear to me, and your obvious attack against me was not lost "in translation". Please don't placate me, I live at the wrong address for such an approach. If you want to "babysit" the impoverished you may be running out of time, at least outside the security system you protect. It was not a "nice post" you made. But mine was a wake up call to those who find it easy to attack or judge without thinking too much about problems beyond GS. "Show me your data and I will show you mine".
Whoa... where the heck did this attack come from? Apparently something got lost in translation!
You spoke of the horrors of what is happening in Africa, and I replied in a way that I thought was saying, Yes we well-off Americans should try to keep our problems in perspective. They do seem small when compared to what others in the world are going through.
I'm sorry if you mistook my phrasing to think I was in any way attacking you or what you posted. I was actually saying you were probably right.
And frankly, this isn't the first time you've accused me of taking a "way corps" line, which is completely unjustified. Just because I think it's unfair to lump all corps into the garbage dump, doesn't mean I in any way defend what the worst of us did. (or defend what stupid things I did in the name of being way corps, either, which I have explained to you before as well)
How about we stop derailing this thread with personal gripes, eh?
“What I used to fear in der Vey”! If there was one thing which I “feared”, it was the “tin soldiers” coming out of Emporia with their Way Corps Badges proudly displayed at every twig fellowship (especially if they were visiting!), every class you took, every conference you went to, at limb headquarters when they wanted to have a “little chat” with you, branch meetings...etc.
Today, they remind me of the tin man in the wizard of oz who is found by the side of the yellow brick road needing a lube job. Back in the good ol’ days when they were so proud of themselves, they could give each other a little “squirt” of encouragement, especially around the jaw area, to keep up appearances.
I remember all these superior beings WATCHING me and everyone else, where we were supposed to sit, handing out class materials, meeting and greeting us at the door upon arrival and departure...and then during these events they would disappear into little groups to discuss how things were “spiritually” going! Oh, how the spirit of God was moving in Vic’s Way Corps...!!
Well as Icarus fell, so fell too those tiny tin way corps soldiers of days gone by, who were for me as “parrots” of God’s Word. Like the tin man who was searching for a heart, many could not go beyond the biblespeak of Vic’s organization which they professed to be the only “stairway to heaven”!
(Notice if you will, it took 4 minutes (or less) for TheHighWay to respond to my posting. That’s Way Corps...don’t be late!
So Ms. TheHighWay, I’m not “lumping” you together with the rest of the way corps. You brought it on in post 33 with YOUR attitude. You derailed the thread not I. I just had a fear of people like you while in “der Vey”!
So, maybe if you take a little more time before your next response, you will find that like most of the people here, I find GS to be a nice place to spend some time. And from the bottom of my heart I want everyone to make a “full recovery” from all previous disappointments, following those elusive people in the business of selling God’s Word. Amen!
Bump
PS. This morning arrived my two favorite birds pecking at my bathroom window reminding me to get up! They look like black parrots with red, yellow and white colors around their necks and face, with large beaks. So many beautiful birds here, I wish you could all see them!
Bump, I can't pm you unless you changed that but in just in case you didn't, I will post here.
The Highway didn't attack you at all. You totally misunderstood and jumped to a conclusion that didn't exist. You need to sit back and take a breath before you post an attack, claiming Corps vs you. If you have problems with the language and are not sure what someone is saying in their post, fix your private messaging and message me and I will read it for you and tell you what I think. Seriously. You may have to wait before you can respond or heck you can even ask, I am not sure how to take that, can you explain it to me? I knew as soon as I read it that The Highway was THANKING you for broadening our perspective in what is going on around us.
Back to the thread, I am so sorry for your pain Dot and all the others who posted. I too became more fearful when I became invovled in TWI and that was the very thing I sought deliverance FROM when I took PFAL. Fearful of dying, fearful of my family dying, fearful of getting possessed. Everything was possessed in TWI if it freaking moved. Oh am I sad? I must be possessed. Heck, TWI as in my local leadership tried to hinder my engagement and marriage to my husband for no other reason than they could do that. Heck, they enjoyed putting fear in me, "because so and so never went into the corps, they backed out of their commitment they will never be the same," or "you will go insane because you didn't go into the corps." How about good old VP in the Advanced Class telling us that 80% or better of the people in mental institutions are Christians and what a testimony for Christianity and I just remember his face right in the video camera (filmed at the Advanced Class 1979) saying that the devil would love nothing better than to do that to us, put us in a mental institution. Of course he mouthed some Christian sounding words of getting mad at the devil and not our brother or sister if that happened to them. Yes, we've seen by their example how they treated those that got ill, died or were killed.
TWI built their foundations on sensationalism and fear, they indoctrinated us with phobias. It is what cults do. It is not always blantant or overt but many times covert. A suggestion from THE MAN OF GOD ie...the devil would love nothing better than to put you in a mental institution. They started with being possessed and all that and built more and more upon it. It made us to feel that if we were not totally safe within TWI from the devil, how could we ever be safe in the outside world of powerless people who the devil used as puppets and pawns at the devil's will???????? And IF we turned our backs on the HouseHOld of God (ie the ONLY ones in the world with God's power and grace, everyone is just slotted to die) then all we love can and may die as well. We might just as well self destruct. Oh and the ever famous threat of being greasespots by midnight.
It was a very very effective way to not only keep us in the organization but to stay in line and do what we were told to do even if it broke our hearts and the hearts of those who loved us. TWI built mental prisons with their doctrines to keep us prisoners to them. IT is an effective tool of cults and controlling toxic churches and bible groups. FEAR.
We responded to what we were indoctrinated with. When we were younger it worked better. I know I did many things out of fear, fear of this, fear of dying, fear of being possessed, fear of being out of fellowship. Gods, VP made such a big deal about being out of fellowship in the Advanced Class and being a target for the devil when we were it put even more fear in me. It was not a glory class. It just cemented the crap already being taught up to that point.
I have regretted living like that. I now resent it and will spit at any group that comes along with the phobia crap of devils and dying and all that darkness. It is darkness. TWI had more darkness to them then light, both in doctrine and in practice especially what we did not know was going on behind closed doors.
I have never been so free since I left TWI. Every day and every year brings me out into the light more and more. There was a lot of pain during those years, realizing what I had did and believed and what I believed and how I was controlled. But it is a process that is worth it a thousand times over.
I remember all these superior beings WATCHING me and everyone else, where we were supposed to sit, handing out class materials, meeting and greeting us at the door upon arrival and departure...and then during these events they would disappear into little groups to discuss how things were “spiritually” going! Oh, how the spirit of God was moving in Vic’s Way Corps...!!
dear bumpy, i remember this kind of stuff too
believe it or not, there were some "corps people" who the way (vicskter) destroyed....
and i can't imagine the kind of hopelessness you described.
**Off topic but a true story and posted for humor**
Yes I remember those little groups. Not just Corps did it but at classes whoever was favored could go off and smoke cigs and whisper to each other, non corps people. So being on refreshments and tired of being the peon who had to sit in the class while the favored few mingled, I wedged myself one session between the refrigerator and wall praying that the branch leader wouldn't find me while he cleared out the kitchen except for the few select and ordered them to the classroom. He didn't find me and I got to do my thing, hehe as I explained, I can't go in there now and disrupt everyone!! ;)
Well, to both of you beautiful ladies...you may think of me as being a little harsh in what I write, but that damn corps stole my girlfriend through guilt, phone calls and the usual pressure of why aren't you in Emporia, and she collapsed. That was the end of us and I still feel some pain about it. You may think I'm just ....ed at corps in general, but I'm not. I just think about how far vp and twi went with the support that "corps" added into the equasion. No actually I do have a problem with it all, but not with the Highway girl or any other individual, just with having to put it out here in a rather unprofessional manner. Those people in Norway did not deserve what happened and neither did 99% of the people still here on GS. I'm just still a little angry, especially when I'm here in Africa thinking of those year gone by. Madame Full Circle knows my feelings! Bump
An Irish daughter had not been home for over 5 years. Upon her return, her father cursed her.
Where have ye been all this time? Why did ye not write to us, not even a line? Why didn't ye call? Can ye not understand what ye put yer old mum thru?
The girl, crying, replied, "Sniff, sniff....dad....I became a prostitute...."
"Ye what!!? Out of here, ye shameless harlot! Sinner! You're a disgrace to this family."
"OK, dad-- as ye wish. I just came back to give mum this luxurious fur coat, title deed to a ten bedroom mansion plus a savings certificate for $5 million."
"For me little brother, this gold Rolex and for ye daddy, the sparkling new Mercedes limited edition convertible that's parked outside plus a membership to the country club....(takes a breath)....and an invitation for ye all to spend New Years' Eve on board my new yacht in the Riviera, and...."
Hi Ex...I hope you had a nice weekend? It's getting late here in West Africa. Not too much exciting happened here today. The Allah microphones went off as usual all around the village which really drives me crazy! I ask them why do they worship an Islamic "god" when all they see is poverty. Silence is the usual response. I keep telling them our Christian Lord is much "richer" which is the reason for all the mass migration! Some don't want to hear that!! It's a spiritual battle, right?
Hope you liked my Irish joke? Someone told me it's not new, but for me it was and made me laugh!
There was a TV preacher on today I was listening to -- He was talking about the WORDS we listen to shaping us, going into our hearts and changing us. He went through Proverbs and here is one area of it he sited:
Proverbs 18
20 A man’s stomach shall be satisfied from the fruit of his mouth;
From the produce of his lips he shall be filled.
21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit
So, for all those people, who let TWI off the hook all of the time, saying no gun was held to your head, this man had the words of the teachers very accountable for shaping and for speaking destruction into our lives. He went through the POWER of words and how the words we speak can be "Let there be light" or "Let there be Death" They minister with LOVE or FEAR.
TWI was listened to by me (and others) because they had "the Word." The destruction and fear they caused is very real. The words they spoke were, to me, worse than holding a gun to my head -- They held God to my heart and told me if I did not obey THEM Iwould loose his love, I would be a greasespot by midnight. I let that fear and wrong teaching drip into my core, because at first they gave me a class called PFAL which spoke words of life, power and hope. Then, they switched their words, their methods, they changed from love to hatred and fear. I bought what they sold when it was sweet. When it became ugly, I kept fighting with myself, reminding myself of how great PFAL was to keep buying into it. (The stolen class) Once, I (and others) got to what VPW was actually teaching from "his ministry," confusion had me continue to value what they said and offered, even though it was totally different.
Fear had me captive. Fear of loosing God, being talked about, yelled at by the big forehead.... Fear. But they are responsible for pushing me (and others) down that road with their WORDS. My part of the blame was believing them, believing a God of love would hate me if I left a stupid ministry.
I would have preferred a gun to my head than the words that saturated my soul and changed me into a forehead following gremlin.
Bumpy, sorry to hear about your bad experience with the way corps. Some of us were more ate up than others (interpretation: some drank the kool aid more than others and longer, lol).
But, unfortunately, you misjudged and possibly misunderstood TheHighway. She wasn't even in the corps. You or anyone would be fortunate to get to know her and become a friend.
Yes, that Allah sheet is a bit unnerving, imo, especially over the loud speakers. Good question about why they'd want to worship him and they're so poor. Exactly what do they get out of it I'm wondering, too???? And they have to fast all day until sundown during their holidays. Doesn't sound like much fun.
Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
The final accounting is not forgotten but only held in store. Justice and truth will be served in the end. Until then may we remember that His mercies are fresh every morning.
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rascal
Congratulations act2.
I remember the terror after leaving too. Well I didn`t leave, my husband refused to play ball. I still went to fellowship religiously to try to keep satan from killing us.....but I lived in constant fear, waiting for disaster to strike us.
I cried and begged him to tithe....I knew that it was the only thing that would keep us alive. I prayed, I started living my old wow commitment as much as possible...1st 30 miniutes in prayer and the bible, we ran non twi bible studies, etc not because I felt led to, but was trying to avert catastrophy.
Guys...I HATED my spouse for putting my children and ourselves in such danger. I despised him for his weakness in commitment and the consequences that his family would have to pay.....
Everyday was a day of stress and suspense waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I went to fellowship no matter how nasty they became because I felt it was my only chance to protect the children.
When bad things happened, I tearfully admitted to the tc that it was no doubt due to our lack of tithe and was patted on the back for being so honest and brave.
I felt it was so unfair that my family was suffering because of my husbands bull headed stubborness....I felt a kinship with jobs wife....we were all gonna die and it was HIS fault.
Lol can you tell I was a gem to live with in those years??
I look back at those years and marvel at how much fear was a part of twi`s doctrine and practice.
We were so proud of our knowledge of the scriptures, our understanding of the *truth*, our spiritual stand.
What did it get us? Certainly not the quiet peace of knowing God as our sufficiency and Jesus as our shepherd...shrug
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Dot Matrix
Yeah Act2, I know that OMG feeling. It was like an endless panic attack.... The phone would ring and I wondered if my leaving caused a family member some harm, or a back fire made me afraid something happened cause I left --- One thing, that did help me, was I went "to see someone" and when I began to tell her she said "You are not that powerful...."
It helped me and that layer left. And the other day I realized how many more subsurface layers there still were.
But prior to my seeing "someone," the actual FEAR they laid in me (the punishment for leaving TWI) became BELIEVING. I would drive to work and be frightened of any car near me, OMG please don't let them hit me, I had to leave TWI to surrvive.... Pls God The fear was palletable.
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rascal
*fear was palletable* you know I had forgotten just how intensely frightening every moment was....I didn`t leave the farm, if I could help it> Every trip to town, to the pediatrician, to the grocery store was an opportunity to catch a fatal disease or die in a wreck.
I had to stop my favorite passion of rescuing and fostering animals because of fear of rabies.
Each subsequent pregnancy had me convinced I would die in child birth, leaving my other babies homeless....sigh
We stayed in twi out of fear for consequences... the suspense of waiting for the promised catastrophy when we left was awfull.
I thank God for Greasespot, for the posters that have helped me work past all of this.
We have come a long way baby!
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TheHighWay
What you are all posting about being terrified when you left twi... that is the ONE and only one reason I am so thankful I waited as long as I did before leaving.
I was unhappy for a long, long time. And I had really gotten "almost" to the point of leaving. I actually told myself I didn't care if God did turn his back on me, I couldn't take life the way I was living it any more!
Fortunately, by the time I left, the Allen lawsuit had hit, I had discussed the issues with my leadership, spouse, online, etc.
I had already come to the conclusion that it was THEM not ME a few months before I got booted. (my ONE regret, I let them boot me before I told them to take a hike)
I worried about if divorcing my husband was something God would frown at, but I never worried once about leaving twi.
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Dot Matrix
Rascal -- I am nodding
Highway - you are fortunate
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Listener
Love of money may be the root of all evil, but I think fear is the main tool that the evil one uses to steal, kill, and destroy.
I was never corps, just a staffer. But don't think for a second that TWI's BS didn't damage everyone it touched. Everyone that bought into
the doctrines was damaged to some degree or another.
For the last two years before I left, I had developed intense panic/anxiety attacks...and didn't understand why! Every time
some one had a meeting of any kind, I could hardly breathe, or function the whole time. If I was called on to manefest or pray, I'd
almost pass out. The internal condemnation was so severe that I thought I was posessed. I was more scared than at any other time
in my life. Then a dear, true friend noticed and spoke some, what I believe were, inspired words to me and broke the fear's hold on
my mind just long enough for me to comprehend my situation. I gave them my two week notice the next day, and two weeks later my family and I
were gone/escaped!!
That was all fine and good....but it took 12 years to rebuild my life after that...guess I'm a slow learner!?!?!? :wacko:
Yeah, the fear had grown slowly and steadily, like a cancer. The only two paths to stop it, that I could see, was to buy into their lifestyle,
or get the he!! out of Dodge!! I cried many nights for my closest friends that I left behind.
The way I see it, Jesus, being a personal saviour, takes on a whole new meaning when I see all the amazingly different ways people here
are getting deliverance/healing. Whether or not the deliverance seems biblical/religous, quick or slow, don't mean crap...all that matters is that it happens!!
I love you guys/gals.
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TheHighWay
Beautiful post, Listener...
The way I see it, Jesus, being a personal saviour, takes on a whole new meaning when I see all the amazingly different ways people here are getting deliverance/healing. Whether or not the deliverance seems biblical/religous, quick or slow, don't mean crap...all that matters is that it happens!!
I only wish some of the critical folks who zoom through these forums and make remarks like, "Why can't you people just get over it?" could understand what you just wrote!!
I wrote to someone recently: This place is "healing-in-progress". The people you are calling whiners and complainers are actually people who are still wounded, talking about their wounds, salving their wounds, dresssing their wounds, and getting healed. What you don't see is all those who have come, found the healing they needed, and moved on, better for their time spent here on these forums. To be critical of what's happening here is like walking into a hospital and complaining that all these sick folks are just lying around the place moaning with pain, when they should be just moving beyond it and getting on with their lives. You wouldn't dream of doing such a thing there. Don't do it here, either.
(sorry, don't mean to derail)
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rascal
Beautiful Highway.
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Bumpy
When reading through this thread, I keep thinking of Africa and the absolute dire poverty, both physical, financial and mental which exists here. And NO hope of escape (have you been following the boat people leaving Senegal for Spain?).
The sickness people live with here and zero hope of hospital care includes not being able to afford even the most basic medical attention! The aids statistics in South Africa comes readily to my mind, wiping out generations, not just there but all over sub- Saharan Africa. Well I think you know, I could go on and on and on...
But in short I would say that this continent of Africa has so many MILLIONS of patients with NO HOPE in this world, that I would be hard pressed to find a comparison, especially in the world’s richest nation! Remember, “if you have a roof over your head, and something to eat, be thankful”!
That being said, I came up with a few Biblical scriptures which hopefully will be appropriate and helpful for those who have been abused or “allowed” themselves to be. I believe Scripture is one of the great keys to spiritual and physical recovery together with people like those here at GS.
Romans 8:18 “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy...”
Philippians 3:13,14 “forgetting those things which are behind and striving...”, “press toward the mark”...
Ephesians 5:16 “redeeming the time”...
ll Timothy 1:7 “ For God hath not given us the spirit of fear”....
As the Islamic microphones continue to blast their way around the planet creating fear and unrest, behind their “works” lies THEIR commitment. As we nurse our wounds the enemy advances his cause. Who will be left standing?
Respectfully Yours,
Bump
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TheHighWay
Nice post, Bumpy... It certainly is easy for us to look at things only from our own limited scope. Keeping a wider lense can help any of us keep things in better perspective, I'm sure.
Really and truly, reading through this thread has brought home to me just how far I've come in the past several years. When you find yourself actually surprised to remember how much fear was a daily part of your existence... wow. That's progress!!
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Bumpy
That was an easy response, but it is getting late here in West Africa, and I don't really know what you mean by "our, (or your), limited scope"? You have been posting here a long time along "way corps" lines which you made clear to me, and your obvious attack against me was not lost "in translation". Please don't placate me, I live at the wrong address for such an approach. If you want to "babysit" the impoverished you may be running out of time, at least outside the security system you protect. It was not a "nice post" you made. But mine was a wake up call to those who find it easy to attack or judge without thinking too much about problems beyond GS. "Show me your data and I will show you mine".
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TheHighWay
Whoa... where the heck did this attack come from? Apparently something got lost in translation!
You spoke of the horrors of what is happening in Africa, and I replied in a way that I thought was saying, Yes we well-off Americans should try to keep our problems in perspective. They do seem small when compared to what others in the world are going through.
I'm sorry if you mistook my phrasing to think I was in any way attacking you or what you posted. I was actually saying you were probably right.
And frankly, this isn't the first time you've accused me of taking a "way corps" line, which is completely unjustified. Just because I think it's unfair to lump all corps into the garbage dump, doesn't mean I in any way defend what the worst of us did. (or defend what stupid things I did in the name of being way corps, either, which I have explained to you before as well)
How about we stop derailing this thread with personal gripes, eh?
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Bumpy
“What I used to fear in der Vey”! If there was one thing which I “feared”, it was the “tin soldiers” coming out of Emporia with their Way Corps Badges proudly displayed at every twig fellowship (especially if they were visiting!), every class you took, every conference you went to, at limb headquarters when they wanted to have a “little chat” with you, branch meetings...etc.
Today, they remind me of the tin man in the wizard of oz who is found by the side of the yellow brick road needing a lube job. Back in the good ol’ days when they were so proud of themselves, they could give each other a little “squirt” of encouragement, especially around the jaw area, to keep up appearances.
I remember all these superior beings WATCHING me and everyone else, where we were supposed to sit, handing out class materials, meeting and greeting us at the door upon arrival and departure...and then during these events they would disappear into little groups to discuss how things were “spiritually” going! Oh, how the spirit of God was moving in Vic’s Way Corps...!!
Well as Icarus fell, so fell too those tiny tin way corps soldiers of days gone by, who were for me as “parrots” of God’s Word. Like the tin man who was searching for a heart, many could not go beyond the biblespeak of Vic’s organization which they professed to be the only “stairway to heaven”!
(Notice if you will, it took 4 minutes (or less) for TheHighWay to respond to my posting. That’s Way Corps...don’t be late!
So Ms. TheHighWay, I’m not “lumping” you together with the rest of the way corps. You brought it on in post 33 with YOUR attitude. You derailed the thread not I. I just had a fear of people like you while in “der Vey”!
So, maybe if you take a little more time before your next response, you will find that like most of the people here, I find GS to be a nice place to spend some time. And from the bottom of my heart I want everyone to make a “full recovery” from all previous disappointments, following those elusive people in the business of selling God’s Word. Amen!
Bump
PS. This morning arrived my two favorite birds pecking at my bathroom window reminding me to get up! They look like black parrots with red, yellow and white colors around their necks and face, with large beaks. So many beautiful birds here, I wish you could all see them!
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FullCircle
Bump, I can't pm you unless you changed that but in just in case you didn't, I will post here.
The Highway didn't attack you at all. You totally misunderstood and jumped to a conclusion that didn't exist. You need to sit back and take a breath before you post an attack, claiming Corps vs you. If you have problems with the language and are not sure what someone is saying in their post, fix your private messaging and message me and I will read it for you and tell you what I think. Seriously. You may have to wait before you can respond or heck you can even ask, I am not sure how to take that, can you explain it to me? I knew as soon as I read it that The Highway was THANKING you for broadening our perspective in what is going on around us.
Back to the thread, I am so sorry for your pain Dot and all the others who posted. I too became more fearful when I became invovled in TWI and that was the very thing I sought deliverance FROM when I took PFAL. Fearful of dying, fearful of my family dying, fearful of getting possessed. Everything was possessed in TWI if it freaking moved. Oh am I sad? I must be possessed. Heck, TWI as in my local leadership tried to hinder my engagement and marriage to my husband for no other reason than they could do that. Heck, they enjoyed putting fear in me, "because so and so never went into the corps, they backed out of their commitment they will never be the same," or "you will go insane because you didn't go into the corps." How about good old VP in the Advanced Class telling us that 80% or better of the people in mental institutions are Christians and what a testimony for Christianity and I just remember his face right in the video camera (filmed at the Advanced Class 1979) saying that the devil would love nothing better than to do that to us, put us in a mental institution. Of course he mouthed some Christian sounding words of getting mad at the devil and not our brother or sister if that happened to them. Yes, we've seen by their example how they treated those that got ill, died or were killed.
TWI built their foundations on sensationalism and fear, they indoctrinated us with phobias. It is what cults do. It is not always blantant or overt but many times covert. A suggestion from THE MAN OF GOD ie...the devil would love nothing better than to put you in a mental institution. They started with being possessed and all that and built more and more upon it. It made us to feel that if we were not totally safe within TWI from the devil, how could we ever be safe in the outside world of powerless people who the devil used as puppets and pawns at the devil's will???????? And IF we turned our backs on the HouseHOld of God (ie the ONLY ones in the world with God's power and grace, everyone is just slotted to die) then all we love can and may die as well. We might just as well self destruct. Oh and the ever famous threat of being greasespots by midnight.
It was a very very effective way to not only keep us in the organization but to stay in line and do what we were told to do even if it broke our hearts and the hearts of those who loved us. TWI built mental prisons with their doctrines to keep us prisoners to them. IT is an effective tool of cults and controlling toxic churches and bible groups. FEAR.
We responded to what we were indoctrinated with. When we were younger it worked better. I know I did many things out of fear, fear of this, fear of dying, fear of being possessed, fear of being out of fellowship. Gods, VP made such a big deal about being out of fellowship in the Advanced Class and being a target for the devil when we were it put even more fear in me. It was not a glory class. It just cemented the crap already being taught up to that point.
I have regretted living like that. I now resent it and will spit at any group that comes along with the phobia crap of devils and dying and all that darkness. It is darkness. TWI had more darkness to them then light, both in doctrine and in practice especially what we did not know was going on behind closed doors.
I have never been so free since I left TWI. Every day and every year brings me out into the light more and more. There was a lot of pain during those years, realizing what I had did and believed and what I believed and how I was controlled. But it is a process that is worth it a thousand times over.
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coolchef
i wish i could be as elequent with words as most of you are
but i agree with you. i took the ac at ginnison
i thougft i would come back home with more knoledge of god to share with my twig
i came home with fear
it sucked
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excathedra
dear bumpy, i remember this kind of stuff too
believe it or not, there were some "corps people" who the way (vicskter) destroyed....
and i can't imagine the kind of hopelessness you described.
love,ex
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FullCircle
**Off topic but a true story and posted for humor**
Yes I remember those little groups. Not just Corps did it but at classes whoever was favored could go off and smoke cigs and whisper to each other, non corps people. So being on refreshments and tired of being the peon who had to sit in the class while the favored few mingled, I wedged myself one session between the refrigerator and wall praying that the branch leader wouldn't find me while he cleared out the kitchen except for the few select and ordered them to the classroom. He didn't find me and I got to do my thing, hehe as I explained, I can't go in there now and disrupt everyone!! ;)
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Bumpy
Well, to both of you beautiful ladies...you may think of me as being a little harsh in what I write, but that damn corps stole my girlfriend through guilt, phone calls and the usual pressure of why aren't you in Emporia, and she collapsed. That was the end of us and I still feel some pain about it. You may think I'm just ....ed at corps in general, but I'm not. I just think about how far vp and twi went with the support that "corps" added into the equasion. No actually I do have a problem with it all, but not with the Highway girl or any other individual, just with having to put it out here in a rather unprofessional manner. Those people in Norway did not deserve what happened and neither did 99% of the people still here on GS. I'm just still a little angry, especially when I'm here in Africa thinking of those year gone by. Madame Full Circle knows my feelings! Bump
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Bumpy
Better Late than Never...Irish prostitute
An Irish daughter had not been home for over 5 years. Upon her return, her father cursed her.
Where have ye been all this time? Why did ye not write to us, not even a line? Why didn't ye call? Can ye not understand what ye put yer old mum thru?
The girl, crying, replied, "Sniff, sniff....dad....I became a prostitute...."
"Ye what!!? Out of here, ye shameless harlot! Sinner! You're a disgrace to this family."
"OK, dad-- as ye wish. I just came back to give mum this luxurious fur coat, title deed to a ten bedroom mansion plus a savings certificate for $5 million."
"For me little brother, this gold Rolex and for ye daddy, the sparkling new Mercedes limited edition convertible that's parked outside plus a membership to the country club....(takes a breath)....and an invitation for ye all to spend New Years' Eve on board my new yacht in the Riviera, and...."
Now what was it ye said ye had become?" says dad.
Girl, crying again, "Sniff, sniff....a prostitute dad! Sniff, sniff.
"Oh! Be Jesus! Ye scared me half to death, girl! I thought ye said a Protestant. Come here and give yer old man a hug.
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excathedra
not at all
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Bumpy
Hi Ex...I hope you had a nice weekend? It's getting late here in West Africa. Not too much exciting happened here today. The Allah microphones went off as usual all around the village which really drives me crazy! I ask them why do they worship an Islamic "god" when all they see is poverty. Silence is the usual response. I keep telling them our Christian Lord is much "richer" which is the reason for all the mass migration! Some don't want to hear that!! It's a spiritual battle, right?
Hope you liked my Irish joke? Someone told me it's not new, but for me it was and made me laugh!
Best from here,
Bump
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Dot Matrix
There was a TV preacher on today I was listening to -- He was talking about the WORDS we listen to shaping us, going into our hearts and changing us. He went through Proverbs and here is one area of it he sited:
Proverbs 18
20 A man’s stomach shall be satisfied from the fruit of his mouth;
From the produce of his lips he shall be filled.
21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue,
And those who love it will eat its fruit
So, for all those people, who let TWI off the hook all of the time, saying no gun was held to your head, this man had the words of the teachers very accountable for shaping and for speaking destruction into our lives. He went through the POWER of words and how the words we speak can be "Let there be light" or "Let there be Death" They minister with LOVE or FEAR.
TWI was listened to by me (and others) because they had "the Word." The destruction and fear they caused is very real. The words they spoke were, to me, worse than holding a gun to my head -- They held God to my heart and told me if I did not obey THEM Iwould loose his love, I would be a greasespot by midnight. I let that fear and wrong teaching drip into my core, because at first they gave me a class called PFAL which spoke words of life, power and hope. Then, they switched their words, their methods, they changed from love to hatred and fear. I bought what they sold when it was sweet. When it became ugly, I kept fighting with myself, reminding myself of how great PFAL was to keep buying into it. (The stolen class) Once, I (and others) got to what VPW was actually teaching from "his ministry," confusion had me continue to value what they said and offered, even though it was totally different.
Fear had me captive. Fear of loosing God, being talked about, yelled at by the big forehead.... Fear. But they are responsible for pushing me (and others) down that road with their WORDS. My part of the blame was believing them, believing a God of love would hate me if I left a stupid ministry.
I would have preferred a gun to my head than the words that saturated my soul and changed me into a forehead following gremlin.
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waterbuffalo
Bumpy, sorry to hear about your bad experience with the way corps. Some of us were more ate up than others (interpretation: some drank the kool aid more than others and longer, lol).
But, unfortunately, you misjudged and possibly misunderstood TheHighway. She wasn't even in the corps. You or anyone would be fortunate to get to know her and become a friend.
Yes, that Allah sheet is a bit unnerving, imo, especially over the loud speakers. Good question about why they'd want to worship him and they're so poor. Exactly what do they get out of it I'm wondering, too???? And they have to fast all day until sundown during their holidays. Doesn't sound like much fun.
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oenophile
Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all.
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
The final accounting is not forgotten but only held in store. Justice and truth will be served in the end. Until then may we remember that His mercies are fresh every morning.
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