Yeah, it really is sad though about the young kids and the old wayfers expounding the "glory days" I was reading some Way forum for young people, and I just get the feeling these kids (though they would NEVER admit it) feel so damn alienated from the rest of the world. Think about it. How can they have any friends, or date regular people? They feel like they are the only ones who are privy to "the rightly divided word as it hasn't been taught since the first century"
In fact, I was going to start a thread about inbreeding in the Way. Not brothers/sisters what have you, but that is how I see the offshoots turning out. They can't get any new followers and the kids are marrying each other. It really is so cliquesh. That's partly why strangers feel so uncomfortable going to one of their meetings.
Hell, I was involved with the way early on for a couple of years, and when I went back to an offshoot for the first time (way back in the early 90s) I felt uncomfortable. I kept going back, and back, and back.....they were the only ones "with the truth" you know.
I'm not saying there arn't some great people there. There are! But as a group it really is, well, kind of spiritually sick.
You know what else I saw on the forum. Some of these kids would be griping in so many words about how boring the Way is and how lonely they are (that's what I read between the lines) but there seems to be the self appointed "Way Postle" The Waypostle (and there are several of them on these forums) will kick the kids a** back in line with "The WORD" all screwed up of course, I'm not dissing God's Word.
But these are like Jr. Nazis, usually in their 20s or whatever, who probably is the son of some leader jerk.
Leader. Gag me. On a side note they need a little less of their "leaders meetings" and a little more of simple heartfelt outreach in their own communities.
There is an obvius infighting about who knew VPW longer or better. They are pushing to go back to VPWs teachings and only VPWs teachings and are trying to convince us gullible young people there were glory days and we just need to go back to how VPW did it.
maybe they should team up with CFF. they both could increase their numbers.....
I bring this up because I believe current TWI leadership is using it as part convincing young people to stay with The Way. There is a huge push at the gulag to focus on attracting young people. It's even alluded to in their new "family class". Many of the current leadership came when they were young. There is an obvius infighting about who knew VPW longer or better. They are pushing to go back to VPWs teachings and only VPWs teachings and are trying to convince us gullible young people there were glory days and we just need to go back to how VPW did it.
It will fail miserably.
First of all,
the growth the FIRST time had almost NOTHING to do with vpw.
It had EVERYTHING to do with the Jesus People movement and REAL Christians like
J1m D00p, St3v3 H33fn3r, and the others.
The youth of the time were ready to hear,
and the young leaders of the time demonstrated God's Love and God's Power.
Without those 2 things, 99.5% or more of us never would have heard of vpw or twi.
Second of all,
in the Information Age, it's FAR too easy to find all the problems with twi.
Hiding them can't work anymore.
And the "followers" can communicate freely with each other, moreso than in twi's
heyday. Can't just make people "vanish" anymore.
Third of all,
many modern churches ARE doing their jobs, and BETTER than twi.
twi has little that is more practical, or more resonating, or more useful, or more
ingenious, or otherwise "better" than is already out there.
The people who came in when they were young probably forgot that vpw warmed
himself at fires he didn't build. The people who grew up in twi never had a chance
There is a huge push at the gulag to focus on attracting young people
No kidding. When I left the "ministry", they tried to roll out the red carpet for my kids.
Soooooooooo nice, so polite. Unsuccessful though, kids saw what they did to people before they changed their skins.
In the evolution of cults, they have marked themselves for extinction, mainly because they refuse to change. Kids get smarter, and it takes a smarter, bigger and better cult to attract a young following.
Trying on different colors of sheep skins doesn't work so well. "well, if I try on a cute pink skin, maybe they'll come.." Same old wolves, same old tricks.
but waysider has it right--whatever his last words were, they were undoubtedly lifted from someone else. anyone know what bullinger's last words were? or stiles'?
in that light, maybe his last words were "What he said," or "Ditto," or maybe, in a [final] moment of honest clarity, "I wish I'd said that."
If I heard right, when craiggers read the "the vip and me" he didn't say anything when he died. he just turned, faced the wall and died. not too dramatic, no special last words, just plain passed away quietly. are words trying to be put into his mouth?
If I heard right, when craiggers read the "the vip and me" he didn't say anything when he died. he just turned, faced the wall and died. not too dramatic, no special last words, just plain passed away quietly. are words trying to be put into his mouth?
that is possible
And yes we can't really know what he said.
Considering my source, and like I said, I think it is part of trying to convince people that twi's problems stem from men and women other then vp and his teachings. We just need to patch up that little "grave mistake" and move on with vp's ways. WWolf pointed out their plan will fail. But not before many of the young people who fall for these sayings "crash"
Oh, and that saying on his tombstone thing is for all to see. That just puzzles me. It's like he admitted failure or didn't give his all or something.
If I heard right, when craiggers read the "the vip and me" he didn't say anything when he died. he just turned, faced the wall and died. not too dramatic, no special last words, just plain passed away quietly. are words trying to be put into his mouth?
It is all pretty much hearsay when it comes down to it. There were only a handful of people who saw VPW when he was on his deathbed, as far as I know. Although, even if "Craiggers" was the only one who heard his last words, I would have a hard time believing anything he said.
The tombstone says volumes.
As far as the mentality of the up and coming young wafers changing things and their perspective on the way things have been and the way things are...I have discussed this a bit with many of them over on myspace. Many of them seem pretty gung ho, much the same way I was at their age. Many of us were that way in our late teens and early twenties. I was pretty naive and clueless at that age too. They think the way has changed but none of them can tell me how exactly. They think that it is still changing for the better and that they will be apart of making that change happen. It seems most of them (the ones that respond to me) think that all the bad that has happened rests on LCM and people that mimiced his style. It seems expected that if you have left the ministry, you did so because you got hurt by bad leadership.
Most of them do admit easily that TWI is not perfect but that every organization has flaws and that TWI has and is changing and is still the best thing going.
There are still people frustrated with things. A number of people have contacted me privately from these myspace discussions and it seems there are still young people with the same concerns that many of us had and still have. That is incouraging and expected.
The TWI will never be what it was (not as though that is something to aspire to). Times have changed, the culture has changed, going to church has changed, but inspite of the claims of a dynamic church, TWI has virtually stayed the same. The same old things are being taught. Still the same old fellowships. Still the same old class structure. Still the same old rigidity and legalism. The problem was not with one man, but with the doctrine and the assumptions that lead to it and the lies that started the whole thing.
In the Passing out of the Patriach we were told craiggers wasn't even there for the final words. He had passed out from dancing too much (Tights were too tight probably). So if anything we have to take krissy gears word for..
In the Passing out of the Patriach we were told craiggers wasn't even there for the final words. He had passed out from dancing too much (Tights were too tight probably). So if anything we have to take krissy gears word for..
The person I was told heard this was a relative of VP, and I don't think that detail is important, just the idea that VP is still influencing us young folks to exalt him. If twi is God's idea VP can be forgotten about. If he "put it all together", good for him, forget him, he'll get his rewards later. What matters is God and His Will. not so in twi. Has anyone seen that silly 6 - 8 foot statue of him?
The TWI will never be what it was (not as though that is something to aspire to). Times have changed, the culture has changed, going to church has changed, but inspite of the claims of a dynamic church, TWI has virtually stayed the same. The same old things are being taught. Still the same old fellowships. Still the same old class structure. Still the same old rigidity and legalism. The problem was not with one man, but with the doctrine and the assumptions that lead to it and the lies that started the whole thing.
Guys I was reading this topic here and I must say please don't make fun of Dr W like that. Most of these posts concerning this topic need to be removed. It's heartless and cruel like Craig was with some of you people. Just look at us this is sooo wrong I can see Craig because he was a nutless coward that destoryed people lives but don't do that to Dr .W He taught me how to SIT. I am asking the People who run this site to remove those posts about Dr.W; concerning comments on his death bed please; I am asking out of respect for this site and the freedom of speech please remove those horrible comments.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
10
10
18
6
Popular Days
Apr 15
21
Mar 18
19
Mar 16
13
Apr 16
11
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 10 posts
WordWolf 10 posts
Bolshevik 18 posts
Captain Spiritural 6 posts
Popular Days
Apr 15 2007
21 posts
Mar 18 2007
19 posts
Mar 16 2007
13 posts
Apr 16 2007
11 posts
Posted Images
RottieGrrrl
Yeah, it really is sad though about the young kids and the old wayfers expounding the "glory days" I was reading some Way forum for young people, and I just get the feeling these kids (though they would NEVER admit it) feel so damn alienated from the rest of the world. Think about it. How can they have any friends, or date regular people? They feel like they are the only ones who are privy to "the rightly divided word as it hasn't been taught since the first century"
In fact, I was going to start a thread about inbreeding in the Way. Not brothers/sisters what have you, but that is how I see the offshoots turning out. They can't get any new followers and the kids are marrying each other. It really is so cliquesh. That's partly why strangers feel so uncomfortable going to one of their meetings.
Hell, I was involved with the way early on for a couple of years, and when I went back to an offshoot for the first time (way back in the early 90s) I felt uncomfortable. I kept going back, and back, and back.....they were the only ones "with the truth" you know.
I'm not saying there arn't some great people there. There are! But as a group it really is, well, kind of spiritually sick.
Edited by RottieGrrrlLink to comment
Share on other sites
RottieGrrrl
You know what else I saw on the forum. Some of these kids would be griping in so many words about how boring the Way is and how lonely they are (that's what I read between the lines) but there seems to be the self appointed "Way Postle" The Waypostle (and there are several of them on these forums) will kick the kids a** back in line with "The WORD" all screwed up of course, I'm not dissing God's Word.
But these are like Jr. Nazis, usually in their 20s or whatever, who probably is the son of some leader jerk.
Leader. Gag me. On a side note they need a little less of their "leaders meetings" and a little more of simple heartfelt outreach in their own communities.
Edited by RottieGrrrlLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Something in RGs' post sparked an idea for a new thread.
Anyone remember how VPW taught that "any two believers can make a marriage work"?
This set the stage for a rash of in-house marriages or "inbeeding" in you prefer that term.
OK------ Off to discuss it on another thread.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
oh, okay
ha ha ha
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
maybe they should team up with CFF. they both could increase their numbers.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
and BELIEVE to raise vic from the dead.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
would his eye come back real or glass ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
they would need a separate believers meeting for that. His eye died before the rest of him.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ohmygosh what happens if the eye comes back first ????????????
Link to comment
Share on other sites
FullCircle
OOOOOOOooh where is Edgar Allen Poe when you need him?
The Tell Tale Heart or the Staring Eye?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
that they believe is there business, that all it all makes sense is God's,
no wait,
can the eye say unto teacher, I have no need of thee?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
satori001
If thine eye offend thee, Murine, er, Windex!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
It will fail miserably.
First of all,
the growth the FIRST time had almost NOTHING to do with vpw.
It had EVERYTHING to do with the Jesus People movement and REAL Christians like
J1m D00p, St3v3 H33fn3r, and the others.
The youth of the time were ready to hear,
and the young leaders of the time demonstrated God's Love and God's Power.
Without those 2 things, 99.5% or more of us never would have heard of vpw or twi.
Second of all,
in the Information Age, it's FAR too easy to find all the problems with twi.
Hiding them can't work anymore.
And the "followers" can communicate freely with each other, moreso than in twi's
heyday. Can't just make people "vanish" anymore.
Third of all,
many modern churches ARE doing their jobs, and BETTER than twi.
twi has little that is more practical, or more resonating, or more useful, or more
ingenious, or otherwise "better" than is already out there.
The people who came in when they were young probably forgot that vpw warmed
himself at fires he didn't build. The people who grew up in twi never had a chance
to learn that.
So, misinformation is welcome at The Way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
No kidding. When I left the "ministry", they tried to roll out the red carpet for my kids.
Soooooooooo nice, so polite. Unsuccessful though, kids saw what they did to people before they changed their skins.
In the evolution of cults, they have marked themselves for extinction, mainly because they refuse to change. Kids get smarter, and it takes a smarter, bigger and better cult to attract a young following.
Trying on different colors of sheep skins doesn't work so well. "well, if I try on a cute pink skin, maybe they'll come.." Same old wolves, same old tricks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
sprawled out
you guys are really funny.
but waysider has it right--whatever his last words were, they were undoubtedly lifted from someone else. anyone know what bullinger's last words were? or stiles'?
in that light, maybe his last words were "What he said," or "Ditto," or maybe, in a [final] moment of honest clarity, "I wish I'd said that."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Out There
If I heard right, when craiggers read the "the vip and me" he didn't say anything when he died. he just turned, faced the wall and died. not too dramatic, no special last words, just plain passed away quietly. are words trying to be put into his mouth?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
that is possible
And yes we can't really know what he said.
Considering my source, and like I said, I think it is part of trying to convince people that twi's problems stem from men and women other then vp and his teachings. We just need to patch up that little "grave mistake" and move on with vp's ways. WWolf pointed out their plan will fail. But not before many of the young people who fall for these sayings "crash"
Oh, and that saying on his tombstone thing is for all to see. That just puzzles me. It's like he admitted failure or didn't give his all or something.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
lindyhopper
It is all pretty much hearsay when it comes down to it. There were only a handful of people who saw VPW when he was on his deathbed, as far as I know. Although, even if "Craiggers" was the only one who heard his last words, I would have a hard time believing anything he said.
The tombstone says volumes.
As far as the mentality of the up and coming young wafers changing things and their perspective on the way things have been and the way things are...I have discussed this a bit with many of them over on myspace. Many of them seem pretty gung ho, much the same way I was at their age. Many of us were that way in our late teens and early twenties. I was pretty naive and clueless at that age too. They think the way has changed but none of them can tell me how exactly. They think that it is still changing for the better and that they will be apart of making that change happen. It seems most of them (the ones that respond to me) think that all the bad that has happened rests on LCM and people that mimiced his style. It seems expected that if you have left the ministry, you did so because you got hurt by bad leadership.
Most of them do admit easily that TWI is not perfect but that every organization has flaws and that TWI has and is changing and is still the best thing going.
There are still people frustrated with things. A number of people have contacted me privately from these myspace discussions and it seems there are still young people with the same concerns that many of us had and still have. That is incouraging and expected.
The TWI will never be what it was (not as though that is something to aspire to). Times have changed, the culture has changed, going to church has changed, but inspite of the claims of a dynamic church, TWI has virtually stayed the same. The same old things are being taught. Still the same old fellowships. Still the same old class structure. Still the same old rigidity and legalism. The problem was not with one man, but with the doctrine and the assumptions that lead to it and the lies that started the whole thing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Out There
In the Passing out of the Patriach we were told craiggers wasn't even there for the final words. He had passed out from dancing too much (Tights were too tight probably). So if anything we have to take krissy gears word for..
Edited by Out ThereLink to comment
Share on other sites
Bolshevik
The person I was told heard this was a relative of VP, and I don't think that detail is important, just the idea that VP is still influencing us young folks to exalt him. If twi is God's idea VP can be forgotten about. If he "put it all together", good for him, forget him, he'll get his rewards later. What matters is God and His Will. not so in twi. Has anyone seen that silly 6 - 8 foot statue of him?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Danny
Same old line VPee put it together.
Where does Jesus Christ fit in?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
igotout
"I wish I were the man I knew to be."
Maybe should have been
"I wish I weren't the axxshole I know I have been."
or
"I fuxcxed up bad!"
or simply
"I wish I had been a godly man."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
(That was worth repeating in BOLD).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Spiritural
Guys I was reading this topic here and I must say please don't make fun of Dr W like that. Most of these posts concerning this topic need to be removed. It's heartless and cruel like Craig was with some of you people. Just look at us this is sooo wrong I can see Craig because he was a nutless coward that destoryed people lives but don't do that to Dr .W He taught me how to SIT. I am asking the People who run this site to remove those posts about Dr.W; concerning comments on his death bed please; I am asking out of respect for this site and the freedom of speech please remove those horrible comments.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.