I think I can understand some of the frustration you are experiencing.
It can be difficult to find out that someone you respected has betrayed your trust.
There is so much information here at GSC, it is hard to know where to start.
One thing that I DON'T recommend for a new poster to do, is to jump to the forums without first examining some of the background information. There is a welcoming section, a 101 type section, etc. There are some very enlightening editorial sections here, as well. Have you looked at the "actual error" and "doctrinal error" editorials? There is also a good deal of information regarding the blatent plagerism that constituted VPW's works.
It can be a time consuming task to look at some of this background information but I think if you do so, it will help you understand why some things you see here may seem, at first glance, to be unwarranted.
Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of how to navigate this site can give some focus to your exploration.
It is my hope that some of the brutal realities you encounter here don't chase you away.
waysider thanks for your calm judgement of me but fact still remains... We are not helped in fighting evil by exaggerating its extent. In rejecting or refuting the exaggeration men often make the truth a victim. Exaggeration is a blood relation to falsehood and nearly as blamable.
You guys need to do the right thing and remove those posts about Dr.W death bed on this subject . Its not right
I am sorry that you are offended....you speak of truth, I just don`t know how you are going to be able to accept the real truth about this man. I am sorry friend...
I was told that he was very isolated towards the end. People who were at one time his friends were told by the new bot that he needed to focus his entire attention on them and preparing them to run the ministry.
I guess that he didn`t know this and was quite puzzled by everyone`s distancing themselves from him. I guess the new bot ended up treating him quite badly...like an extraneous relic from the past.
At one time, I was very sad, and felt bad for his loneliness....knowing what I do today....I`d say it was poetic justice.
Guys I was reading this topic here and I must say please don't make fun of Dr W like that. Most of these posts concerning this topic need to be removed. It's heartless and cruel like Craig was with some of you people. Just look at us this is sooo wrong I can see Craig because he was a nutless coward that destoryed people lives but don't do that to Dr .W He taught me how to SIT. I am asking the People who run this site to remove those posts about Dr.W; concerning comments on his death bed please; I am asking out of respect for this site and the freedom of speech please remove those horrible comments.
I understand your point but,
I bring this up because I believe current TWI leadership is using it as part convincing young people to stay with The Way. There is a huge push at the gulag to focus on attracting young people. It's even alluded to in their new "family class". Many of the current leadership came when they were young. There is an obvius infighting about who knew VPW longer or better. They are pushing to go back to VPWs teachings and only VPWs teachings and are trying to convince us gullible young people there were glory days and we just need to go back to how VPW did it.
It may seem cruel to you. Many here feel it is an understatement to say the things stated.
He condemned the sick as not being able to believe God. He led people to suicide who could not keep his secrets. He humiliated his wife, by telling other little girls he wanted to screw, that she had physical problems and could not satisfy him. He lied and built an empire on ego and spiritual filth.
I spoke in tongues before VPW ever came along, and if you were not side tracked you, most likely, would have found your way to a real man of God to be mentored. Like BG Leonard... So how much was really lost?
Instead of finding a pace with God, we were taught to obey the Moggie. Did you ever think that VPW was a clever counterfeit sent to gather up the hungry for God and steer them off course? Of course, the bait had to look tasty or we would not have gone for it.
So, he could not conjure up a great bait as he was depraved, so he stole an actual GOOD class and peddled it as his own. The bait was genuine, the monster behind it was a counterfeit, IMO. A sick twisted counterfeit more into his own p e n i s and ego’d legacy than our deliverance.
It was a brilliant movement of Satan to hijack a group of ministers (the corps) and drive them away from any gifts that could have been developed.
It was a genius move, on the adversary’s part, to offer a class of deliverance to a world starved for healing, and then put them back in bondage.
Thank God for ANYTHING redemptive that you grasped, for the king of porn and pedophilia, adultery and rape did not have it in his heart to truly share the goodness of God (IMO as a fruit inspector and someone who knew him)
I refrain when I call him a sick twisted azz who stole people from the path God had before them, and instead tried to mentored them to worship Satan directly or indirectly. (You were off track, or beaten down when you did not submit, or offered power when you did) What a loss for God that this man was brought to power. What a victory to God that we got anything positive from TWI. I do NOT think God’s hand was on VPW. I do believe God’s hand was on us and we survived.
You want to feel badly for someone? How about BG Leonard who watched his class get hi-jacked by a man who was NOT godly. Now, there is a shame.
This is not a slam to you dear Captain. You are probably a nice guy.
It may seem cruel to you. Many here feel it is an understatement to say the things stated.
He condemned the sick as not being able to believe God. He led people to suicide who could not keep his secrets. He humiliated his wife, by telling other little girls he wanted to screw, that she had physical problems and could not satisfy him. He lied and built an empire on ego and spiritual filth.
I spoke in tongues before VPW ever came along, and if you were not side tracked you, most likely, would have found your way to a real man of God to be mentored. Like BG Leonard... So how much was really lost?
Instead of finding a pace with God, we were taught to obey the Moggie. Did you ever think that VPW was a clever counterfeit sent to gather up the hungry for God and steer them off course? Of course, the bait had to look tasty or we would not have gone for it.
So, he could not conjure up a great bait as he was depraved, so he stole an actual GOOD class and peddled it as his own. The bait was genuine, the monster behind it was a counterfeit, IMO. A sick twisted counterfeit more into his own p e n i s and ego’d legacy than our deliverance.
It was a brilliant movement of Satan to hijack a group of ministers (the corps) and drive them away from any gifts that could have been developed.
It was a genius move, on the adversary’s part, to offer a class of deliverance to a world starved fro healing, and then put them back in bondage.
Thank God for ANYTHING redemptive that you grasped, for the king of porn and pedophilia, adultery and rape did not have it in his heart to truly share the goodness of God (IMO as a fruit inspector and someone who knew him)
I refrain when I call him a sick twisted azz who stole people from the path God had before them, and instead tried to mentored them to worship Satan directly or indirectly. (You were off track, or beaten down when you did not submit, or offered power when you did) What a loss for God that this man was brought to power. What a victory to God that we got anything positive from TWI. I do NOT think God’s hand was on VPW. I do believe God’s hand was on us and we survived.
You want to feel badly for someone? How about BG Leonard who watched his class get hi-jacked by a man who was NOT godly. Now, there is a shame.
We are not helped in fighting evil by exaggerating its extent. In rejecting or refuting the exaggeration men often make the truth a victim. Exaggeration is a blood relation to falsehood and nearly as blamable.
Ok, I'll take you up on your "challenge."
Find me an exaggeration on this thread.
Please be specific, quote the poster exactly, and leave the quote-tags intact so it links
back to the original post and proves it actually said that.
Then we can see if it WAS an exaggeration or not.
You guys need to do the right thing and remove those posts about Dr.W death bed on this subject . Its not right
vpw needed to do the right thing-and he often did not, and that often involved his bed-
and often it did not. THAT was not only "not right", it was obscene and vile.
Once one actually is AWARE of the desecrations of his office, the felonies performed by vpw himself
on his fellow Christians for whom Christ died, a little outrage is more than warranted.
Meanwhile,
the right thing for YOU to do is find out who vpw actually WAS. Here's a hint-
it wasn't who he portrayed when the microphones were on and the cameras were rolling-
which you and I both thought. I was quite surprised to read the accounts of eyewitness after
Last words my foot. His brain was probably so pickled and being reprobate, and dying he probably gurgled a lot.
Come on, when VP died, all we heard was how wonderful he was. How the great MOG just got tired of the fight. You know he fought for us so much, he did so much for us, he believed so much for us and it just took it's toll don't we spoiled kids who got the word served to us on a silver platter, and it caused him to grow weary and give up the fight.
We were yelled at. Sitting around the Fountain of Living Waters, I guess that is when we went for the weekend showing of Athletes of the Sprocket production and we were yelled at because this living icon, this great man who NEVER took an aspirin in his life, unlike, us fell asleep. He was such a great MOG and we were spoiled, never able to come close to VP's greatness.
(he didnt' need an aspirin, he had enough drambuie inside him to dull any headaches)
VP's death was lorded over us and used against us and now we're supposed to be respectful of some words that his damage control crew made up (thus solidifying their jobs as the head honcho moves on and trying to keep the ministry together and NOT fall apart after VP dies)
Ummm no. It doesn't work that way. They exploited his death over us. And now it's a two edge sword that swings back.
ohmygosh what happens if the eye comes back first ????????????
Quote from bolshevik:
"that they believe is there business, that all it all makes sense is God's,
no wait,
can the eye say unto teacher, I have no need of thee? QUOTE(excathedra @ Mar 18 2007, 05:16 PM)
ohmygosh what happens if the eye comes back first ????????????
that they believe is there business, that all it all makes sense is God's,
no wait,
can the eye say unto teacher, I have no need of thee? "
Oh my gawd! You guys are killing me!!! Waking up this morning and reading this stuff was WAY better than any 10:30 fellowship I ever went to. Thanks for the laughs!
Please be specific, quote the poster exactly, and leave the quote-tags intact so it links
back to the original post and proves it actually said that.
Then we can see if it WAS an exaggeration or not.
vpw needed to do the right thing-and he often did not, and that often involved his bed-
and often it did not. THAT was not only "not right", it was obscene and vile.
Once one actually is AWARE of the desecrations of his office, the felonies performed by vpw himself
on his fellow Christians for whom Christ died, a little outrage is more than warranted.
Meanwhile,
the right thing for YOU to do is find out who vpw actually WAS. Here's a hint-
it wasn't who he portrayed when the microphones were on and the cameras were rolling-
which you and I both thought. I was quite surprised to read the accounts of eyewitness after
eyewitness after eyewitness.
wow Wolf nice malice uncanny venom outstanding bites you are just like them : you are of superior knowledge :) i am like a child hey Im not in your league golly! ... You are trying to establish a point but heat and animostity, contest and conflict may sharpen your wits, although they rarely do: they never sharpen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgement and directives or improve your heart. No need to come at me that way. The man's dead remove the posts ok.
You chastise Word Wolf for thinking he is in a superior league than you?
Your very name is a little egotistical don't you think?
And just because someone dies does not wipe the slate clean, does not make it a "sin" to spit on his grave so-to-speak.
When people die somehow those remaining seem to think, "Oh, well leaved it alone."
Well, in this case, the death of the boogieman enabled some people to gather enough courage to actual talk about his atrocities.
It is not my taste to make fun of his eye, even though he led the way to nearly ostracizing a friend of mine with cancer, but to leave it alone like he is in a hero's grave just ain't going to happen. His death did not stop the decline of many innocent believers lives, nor should his death be honored or sacred -- in fact many probably celebrate his passing --
Ding Dong the witch is dead, which old witch? the wicked witch, ding dong the wicked witch is dead...
GROUCHO, the drambuie glass falling from his hand almost made me wet myself with laughter.
I had heard and don't remember all of the details but I heard he awoke and looked at the clock to see if the service was on and did not want it to be announced at the meeting of his death so he waited. Any comments just send them to the TEACHER New Knoxville OH.
waysider thanks for your calm judgement of me but fact still remains...
We are not helped in fighting evil by exaggerating its extent. In rejecting or refuting the exaggeration men often make the truth a victim. Exaggeration is a blood relation to falsehood and nearly as blamable.
You guys need to do the right thing and remove those posts about Dr.W death bed on this subject . Its not right
Ok, I'll take you up on your "challenge."
Find me an exaggeration on this thread.
Please be specific, quote the poster exactly, and leave the quote-tags intact so it links
back to the original post and proves it actually said that.
Then we can see if it WAS an exaggeration or not.
vpw needed to do the right thing-and he often did not, and that often involved his bed-
and often it did not. THAT was not only "not right", it was obscene and vile.
Once one actually is AWARE of the desecrations of his office, the felonies performed by vpw himself
on his fellow Christians for whom Christ died, a little outrage is more than warranted.
Meanwhile,
the right thing for YOU to do is find out who vpw actually WAS. Here's a hint-
it wasn't who he portrayed when the microphones were on and the cameras were rolling-
which you and I both thought. I was quite surprised to read the accounts of eyewitness after
wow Wolf nice malice uncanny venom outstanding bites you are just like them : you are of superior knowledge :) i am like a child hey Im not in your league golly! ... You are trying to establish a point but heat and animostity, contest and conflict may sharpen your wits, although they rarely do: they never sharpen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgement and directives or improve your heart. No need to come at me that way. The man's dead remove the posts ok.
Nice try at changing the subject.
YOU claimed there were exagerrations on this thread. More than once.
I said to find them, even ONE.
I noticed you've neither found one nor apologized for mistakenly claiming there WAS one.
Instead, calling your "bluff" gets some names thrown at me.
However, we've played this game before and can clearly see an attempt to change a subject
and throw up a smokescreen.
In other news, all the self-deprecating names you've aimed at yourself and placed in my
mouth impress very few people here. However, it's a lot easier just to do that than to
"call my bluff" (if I'm actually bluffing), and read around and see what vpw did, and why
so many people lost all respect for him.
"The man's dead." I agree.
"Remove the posts." I DISagree, and gave my reasons.
Pretending there's neither reason nor cause to make the posts or keep them up
does not actually make reasons or causes vanish....
And if you think MY POSTS are "heated", you would have been slain dead in your
tracks by a tongue-lashing from vpw if you were "privileged" enough to know him
privately rather than just by his own carefully-managed public image.
Compared to vpw and all those he trained personally, I'm an amiable sheepdog.
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waysider
Captain Spiritual
I think I can understand some of the frustration you are experiencing.
It can be difficult to find out that someone you respected has betrayed your trust.
There is so much information here at GSC, it is hard to know where to start.
One thing that I DON'T recommend for a new poster to do, is to jump to the forums without first examining some of the background information. There is a welcoming section, a 101 type section, etc. There are some very enlightening editorial sections here, as well. Have you looked at the "actual error" and "doctrinal error" editorials? There is also a good deal of information regarding the blatent plagerism that constituted VPW's works.
It can be a time consuming task to look at some of this background information but I think if you do so, it will help you understand why some things you see here may seem, at first glance, to be unwarranted.
Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of how to navigate this site can give some focus to your exploration.
It is my hope that some of the brutal realities you encounter here don't chase you away.
Waysider
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Captain Spiritural
waysider thanks for your calm judgement of me but fact still remains... We are not helped in fighting evil by exaggerating its extent. In rejecting or refuting the exaggeration men often make the truth a victim. Exaggeration is a blood relation to falsehood and nearly as blamable.
You guys need to do the right thing and remove those posts about Dr.W death bed on this subject . Its not right
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rascal
I am sorry that you are offended....you speak of truth, I just don`t know how you are going to be able to accept the real truth about this man. I am sorry friend...
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Dot Matrix
Back to the original post -
I heard the same kinda thing that Bolshevic heard
Except, years ago, I heard that up until the end he was still hitting on women.
He lived "sick and disgusting" and he died the same way.
I fear anything you heard making him a legend was part of the fable the "yes" men created
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rascal
I was told that he was very isolated towards the end. People who were at one time his friends were told by the new bot that he needed to focus his entire attention on them and preparing them to run the ministry.
I guess that he didn`t know this and was quite puzzled by everyone`s distancing themselves from him. I guess the new bot ended up treating him quite badly...like an extraneous relic from the past.
At one time, I was very sad, and felt bad for his loneliness....knowing what I do today....I`d say it was poetic justice.
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Bolshevik
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Dot Matrix
Captain
It may seem cruel to you. Many here feel it is an understatement to say the things stated.
He condemned the sick as not being able to believe God. He led people to suicide who could not keep his secrets. He humiliated his wife, by telling other little girls he wanted to screw, that she had physical problems and could not satisfy him. He lied and built an empire on ego and spiritual filth.
I spoke in tongues before VPW ever came along, and if you were not side tracked you, most likely, would have found your way to a real man of God to be mentored. Like BG Leonard... So how much was really lost?
Instead of finding a pace with God, we were taught to obey the Moggie. Did you ever think that VPW was a clever counterfeit sent to gather up the hungry for God and steer them off course? Of course, the bait had to look tasty or we would not have gone for it.
So, he could not conjure up a great bait as he was depraved, so he stole an actual GOOD class and peddled it as his own. The bait was genuine, the monster behind it was a counterfeit, IMO. A sick twisted counterfeit more into his own p e n i s and ego’d legacy than our deliverance.
It was a brilliant movement of Satan to hijack a group of ministers (the corps) and drive them away from any gifts that could have been developed.
It was a genius move, on the adversary’s part, to offer a class of deliverance to a world starved for healing, and then put them back in bondage.
Thank God for ANYTHING redemptive that you grasped, for the king of porn and pedophilia, adultery and rape did not have it in his heart to truly share the goodness of God (IMO as a fruit inspector and someone who knew him)
I refrain when I call him a sick twisted azz who stole people from the path God had before them, and instead tried to mentored them to worship Satan directly or indirectly. (You were off track, or beaten down when you did not submit, or offered power when you did) What a loss for God that this man was brought to power. What a victory to God that we got anything positive from TWI. I do NOT think God’s hand was on VPW. I do believe God’s hand was on us and we survived.
You want to feel badly for someone? How about BG Leonard who watched his class get hi-jacked by a man who was NOT godly. Now, there is a shame.
This is not a slam to you dear Captain. You are probably a nice guy.
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FullCircle
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rascal
Wow...I hadn`t thought of BG Leonard having to witness his lifes work being used as the bait for a snare :(
So many were betrayed.
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WordWolf
Ok, I'll take you up on your "challenge."
Find me an exaggeration on this thread.
Please be specific, quote the poster exactly, and leave the quote-tags intact so it links
back to the original post and proves it actually said that.
Then we can see if it WAS an exaggeration or not.
vpw needed to do the right thing-and he often did not, and that often involved his bed-
and often it did not. THAT was not only "not right", it was obscene and vile.
Once one actually is AWARE of the desecrations of his office, the felonies performed by vpw himself
on his fellow Christians for whom Christ died, a little outrage is more than warranted.
Meanwhile,
the right thing for YOU to do is find out who vpw actually WAS. Here's a hint-
it wasn't who he portrayed when the microphones were on and the cameras were rolling-
which you and I both thought. I was quite surprised to read the accounts of eyewitness after
eyewitness after eyewitness.
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
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FullCircle
Geez the more I edit, the more I screw it up
Last words my foot. His brain was probably so pickled and being reprobate, and dying he probably gurgled a lot.
Come on, when VP died, all we heard was how wonderful he was. How the great MOG just got tired of the fight. You know he fought for us so much, he did so much for us, he believed so much for us and it just took it's toll don't we spoiled kids who got the word served to us on a silver platter, and it caused him to grow weary and give up the fight.
We were yelled at. Sitting around the Fountain of Living Waters, I guess that is when we went for the weekend showing of Athletes of the Sprocket production and we were yelled at because this living icon, this great man who NEVER took an aspirin in his life, unlike, us fell asleep. He was such a great MOG and we were spoiled, never able to come close to VP's greatness.
(he didnt' need an aspirin, he had enough drambuie inside him to dull any headaches)
VP's death was lorded over us and used against us and now we're supposed to be respectful of some words that his damage control crew made up (thus solidifying their jobs as the head honcho moves on and trying to keep the ministry together and NOT fall apart after VP dies)
Ummm no. It doesn't work that way. They exploited his death over us. And now it's a two edge sword that swings back.
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Nottawayfer
QUOTE(excathedra @ Mar 18 2007, 05:16 PM)
ohmygosh what happens if the eye comes back first ????????????
Quote from bolshevik:
"that they believe is there business, that all it all makes sense is God's,
no wait,
can the eye say unto teacher, I have no need of thee? QUOTE(excathedra @ Mar 18 2007, 05:16 PM)
ohmygosh what happens if the eye comes back first ????????????
that they believe is there business, that all it all makes sense is God's,
no wait,
can the eye say unto teacher, I have no need of thee? "
Oh my gawd! You guys are killing me!!! Waking up this morning and reading this stuff was WAY better than any 10:30 fellowship I ever went to. Thanks for the laughs!
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Captain Spiritural
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TheInvisibleDan
Accompanied by the utterance...
"Rosebud...."
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FullCircle
OMGJDL
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Bolshevik
Captain Spiritual,
What is your opinion, does twi worship the man vpw?
He is not dead. He lives in the idolatrous doctrines that is twi.
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excathedra
captain spiritual
i wish you knew the man he really was
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Bolshevik
Whoops, I misread this.
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excathedra
:)
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Dot Matrix
Captain Spiritual
You chastise Word Wolf for thinking he is in a superior league than you?
Your very name is a little egotistical don't you think?
And just because someone dies does not wipe the slate clean, does not make it a "sin" to spit on his grave so-to-speak.
When people die somehow those remaining seem to think, "Oh, well leaved it alone."
Well, in this case, the death of the boogieman enabled some people to gather enough courage to actual talk about his atrocities.
It is not my taste to make fun of his eye, even though he led the way to nearly ostracizing a friend of mine with cancer, but to leave it alone like he is in a hero's grave just ain't going to happen. His death did not stop the decline of many innocent believers lives, nor should his death be honored or sacred -- in fact many probably celebrate his passing --
Ding Dong the witch is dead, which old witch? the wicked witch, ding dong the wicked witch is dead...
And look we are not a greasespot by morning....
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fellowshipper
GROUCHO, the drambuie glass falling from his hand almost made me wet myself with laughter.
I had heard and don't remember all of the details but I heard he awoke and looked at the clock to see if the service was on and did not want it to be announced at the meeting of his death so he waited. Any comments just send them to the TEACHER New Knoxville OH.
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WordWolf
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WordWolf
Nice try at changing the subject.
YOU claimed there were exagerrations on this thread. More than once.
I said to find them, even ONE.
I noticed you've neither found one nor apologized for mistakenly claiming there WAS one.
Instead, calling your "bluff" gets some names thrown at me.
However, we've played this game before and can clearly see an attempt to change a subject
and throw up a smokescreen.
In other news, all the self-deprecating names you've aimed at yourself and placed in my
mouth impress very few people here. However, it's a lot easier just to do that than to
"call my bluff" (if I'm actually bluffing), and read around and see what vpw did, and why
so many people lost all respect for him.
"The man's dead." I agree.
"Remove the posts." I DISagree, and gave my reasons.
Pretending there's neither reason nor cause to make the posts or keep them up
does not actually make reasons or causes vanish....
And if you think MY POSTS are "heated", you would have been slain dead in your
tracks by a tongue-lashing from vpw if you were "privileged" enough to know him
privately rather than just by his own carefully-managed public image.
Compared to vpw and all those he trained personally, I'm an amiable sheepdog.
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Listener
I knew him personally, also, and that was almost am understatement, WW. He always "knew" exactly how to crush a person,
and rip out their heart, beat them into submission, and then, mock the quivering remains in full view of all present.
And that's putting it nicely!!
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