Sorry Captain Spiritural, I was probably trying to say too much at one time! Hope this helps. Imbred should be inbred...I appologize for my errors.
qualifications: 1. a skill a quality or attribute that makes somebody suitable for a particular job,activity or task 2. meting conditions or requirements 3. something that modifies. limits or restricts
Inbred:existing naturally, through being possessed (not with "debbles" LOL) from birth or inherited from parents.
Sorry Captain Spiritural, I was probably trying to say too much at one time! Hope this helps. Imbred should be inbred...I appologize for my errors.
qualifications: 1. a skill a quality or attribute that makes somebody suitable for a particular job,activity or task 2. meting conditions or requirements 3. something that modifies. limits or restricts
Inbred:existing naturally, through being possessed (not with "debbles" LOL) from birth or inherited from parents.
Does that help Captain????
Qualifications:
1) yes that seems important with an example of some construction work that takes manly strength that most women don't normally have.
2) in the military a woman has to be able to perform like a man and if she can she has the same risks and demands on her but yes one has to meet the job specs regardless of male or female
3) like in the first one I feel women weren't built to do some labor type things and some are not even healthy for child bearing age women because of the strain it can put on your internal organs
Inbred:
This one I'm not so sure of examples of, I can come up with parents that have musical talents also being in their children, at the moment I can't think of male-female things though.
By the way, I want to thank you guys for the way you treated my wife. It was a big step for her to post here and you all made her feel welcome. Thanx much.
Johniam tell her we would love to have her as a regular poster. She sounds like a very intelligent woman.
geeze I can't leave here for very long without missing something.
RainbowsGirl - Loving your insight here. You posed an intriguing question. I agree that there is much that is inbred or part of the wiring of a man and also a woman. For instance, it is said that women are able to multi-task better than men. Since we have to keep up with all of our little people and still manage to keep up with everyhing else we are doing in life I would think that God would have to have given us that ability as part of our make-up.
But then there are areas that are cultural or learned. For instance when I was a little girl, it was thought that women couldn't perform math skills as well as men but we have erased this stereotype in the last couple of decades and many of us are using our math skills and proving to be formidable.
Culture says women are catty and gosippy, and so we see these little drama queens carrying out that stereotype. But with a little instruction we see some girls breaking the cycle. And believe me I used to work in a coffee shop when I was 19, and those old me gossipped more than any woman I knew.
I find myself in the midst of a terrific conversation and my life intrudes. Feh.
I have a gigantic test Friday (wherein I am the student and will be submitting to the Authority of both my text book and my professor) and so will be nose-buried until then. And mid-terms are starting.
I also have a test of my own to sit down and write (wherein I am the teacher and will juggle the ability to use my authority in a balanced way, for while I want my test to be fair, it must also achieve the learning objectives as well as push my students to apply reason in conjunction with memorization).
These have been great posts today and yesterday and I hope to have time to respond later this afternoon.
And, John...
I hope you will pass on to Jean how welcome her comments have been, if she's not reading herself (and a wave to Jean if you are). And I, too, hope she will return to post more.
1) yes that seems important with an example of some construction work that takes manly strength that most women don't normally have.
2) in the military a woman has to be able to perform like a man and if she can she has the same risks and demands on her but yes one has to meet the job specs regardless of male or female
3) like in the first one I feel women weren't built to do some labor type things and some are not even healthy for child bearing age women because of the strain it can put on your internal organs
Inbred:
This one I'm not so sure of examples of, I can come up with parents that have musical talents also being in their children, at the moment I can't think of male-female things though.
Thanxs I got it ...
and by the way to the guy or girl that e-mailed me yes yes its Captain ,Captain SPIRITURAL see ya guys around it was a very nice site I felt very welcome here. bye
"Innate" may have been a better choice. They are similiar. Knowing myself as well as I do. I probably would have liked to go off in even another tangent and describe their similarity and why I chose inbred...sorry LOL...I do try to convey as much as I can and have a Huge tendancy to over do it. Then my thoughts lose their intent. I apologize to everyone.
What I should have done was compose it in Microsoft Word...thought in over clarified it and corrected it.
Too often so much comes to my mind at once in a great discuss like this one and I get lost in my own thoughts! I'll be working on that.
Thank you for the wave. I am reading for myself, and I appologize for my part in the derailment. As far as the biblical side of this discussion, the Bible tells women to be in subjection to her own husband, not necessarily every man walking down the street. If that were the case women would end up being raped even more often then they already are (which is already too much). I am glad to see that you are being rational about this (i.e. being willing to concede that there are jobs that at least some women are not physically prepared for). I have read many articles about women who are resented for wanting equal status when they are not physically capable of doing equal work. The example that leaps to mind is in the military. Most women aren't capable of lifting a fifty pound backpack onto their backs and then going for a fifty mile hike. I think women are certainly the intellectual equals of men, but the idea of a woman president is a little hard for me to get my mind around. I watched most of the episodes of that show ' Commander in Chief" (I may have gotten the name wrong), and found the portrayal of a man in the role of 'First Gentleman" a little nauseating My twi background may be showing here.
I never watched that show but I can understand the concept of a man behind the wife getting lost; he'd have to be very secure in himself no doubt.
And there are some military positions that the woman can't do but most she can nowadays. But to go after a job not physically suited for a woman just to prove a point hurts us more than helps is still my opinion.
Unfortunately I think Hilary ran the show when Bill was in office. I too have a hard time envisioning a woman as the prez. I am trying to see how it might work but my old Way mind makes it difficult.
Well, just keep in mind that that *old way mind* was inspired by the cultural predjudices of 2000 plus years ago. I mean some of that women stuff in the bible we have already recogniosed as no longer applicable in todays world and dismissed...We cut our hair, we wear the clothes we like, we worship in the same room as the guys....we speak in public, own property....etc...and I just don`t see God having a problem with these things...while if it were to happen in biblical times the isrealites would no doubt stone us as heretics.
I see little advantage subjecting ourselves to the cultural rules and values of 2-5000 years ago....we accepted outragious restrictions and accepted roles as 2nd class citizens in twi in the belief that was how God requires things 2000 years later.
As far as military and women...I have a friend, 45 years old, mother of 3. Her reserve unit was called up and deployed to iraq.
Not only was she able to keep up physically, when they had a company wide contest going in a self defense sparring type of contest...she wasn`t participating....but her teammates started calling her...knowing what an accomplished fighter she was from a life time of training and staying fit. She whipped the stew out of the last guy standing....I kid you not!
My girls after 5 years of martial arts training could keep up with most guys be it running, fighting etc. I would not deny them the opportunity to fight if they wished.
As far as decision making abilities??? My goodness my 18 yr old just replaced a much older man as shift leader. She has far surpassed him already in her ability to take charge in tense situations.
I think it is all in how bad we want something as to whether or not we can achieve success.
Please don`t hold ourselves and our daughter back with the prejudices of a long dead civilization.
It keeps coming back to common sense doesn't it? What is best for all can be left to the wayside if removed from the equation I feel.
I use to feel bad for the men that now had women in the mix on their job sites and wondered if there could have been some traditions and special bonds lost because they were no longer a group of men that could do and say as they wished without curbing their tongues and thoughts.
At the same time felt bad for the women who were expected to take secretarial jobs or something of that nature rather than lead positions in companies. (no disrespect meant to secretaries)
Today I think men can find their private spaces amongst just them so they can work out there needs that are different than ours and that women shouldn't hesitate to pursue something fitted to her physically and mentally.
We spend more hours of our lives working than anything other than sleeping so why not feel you are contributing your best in whatever job you do. And that includes the woman being the boss man and being the worker both.
Common sense just has to be part of the mix void of the brute of either sex having to prove their point.
One thing to consider.....if we hold ourselves back because of biblical custom.... in the corporate world or our relationships.... Consider this.....the women in scriptures culturaly were denied an education, they were denied access to the temple and scriptures, they were TOLD that God didn`t want them to be anything other than wives and mothers....who was going to go against God and men?
Sure they were incapable of being successfull professionally. They had neither the education, nor were allowed to develop the skills necessary to succede in their culture at the time.
All the resources and teachings were focused on the sons. The women in order to survive had to define their role in the parameter that their culture allowed.
I think we do ourselves a tremendous disservice to convince ourselves that somehow we are less capable to persue our interests and goals....these days in most instances I think, is a level playing field of opportunity.
I guess the statements about being subject to our husbands or guys being able to do the job better has bothered me.
Sometimes I think that we are talked into holding ourselves back in order to fit someones idea of virtuous or Godly...shrug
In this day and age we are allowed access to all of the same education and resources that the guys have. If it is an area of physical endeavor, such as police, fireman, army, etc...then we may have to work harder to succede, where as a guy might be naturally gifted.....
Just like we (or they) may not be as mentally sharp as the next person, get as good a grades in school etc if one wants to excell in a scientific field.... but hard work can make up for our lack if we want it bad enough....the options are there for us if we want to work hard enough to achioeve our goal.
I believe there could be some physical jobs that stress the organs of a child bearing woman and in that case it wouldn't be that she wasn't qualified rather it just wouldn't be a wise choice.
I would suggest, Rascal, that the playing field is leveling though not fully in balance. And to be perfectly realistic, it's likely never going to be truly equal...one end slightly up, the other slightly down...always striving for equilibrium--that perfect state of homeostasis in which all systems are operating under the optimum conditions. And I don't mean to imply that women will always be on the down-side in terms of the issues that we're discussing.
Circumstances have changed, as have many societal customs. What was seen as normative even ten years ago, well, shifts have occurred and still do. In the primary areas of influence--those directly in contact with each of us--there's a great deal of influence in terms of making a personal impact in education. I mean, that by our actions and examples at work and at home and with our friends, women can make a great impact on the thinking of others. (This, by the way, is also a reason why Hillary scares me, because, well, her actions and examples don't...shall we say...increase the buffer zone of my comfort level).
I think it has proven historically accurate to say that whenever a group has sought to change their collective lot in the social structure, those first pioneers have had to hold a strong line. I'm thinking now of early suffragettes, the first women to enter predominantly male professions, and those types of examples. They had to be the best of the best, whether or not that was fair, in order to even be accepted. But, the continued press toward equality and the ability to command authority owes a great deal to those who first had the courage to stand up and say, "You know what, I've got a great brain...and natural abilities...I'll just be using them, thanks awfully."
There are many precepts by which people can come to an individual determination of what defines the role of authority in any relationship. This thread has showcased multiple viewpoints...and I think that one commonality I've noticed is that no one commands a natural authority without also commanding respect. Authority can be wrested, abused, and used to punish as well as harm. Just because someone does that, however, doesn't make the usurpation of that authority meritorious or legitimate.
John and I went to a marriage seminar in Nashville, TN a week ago, and one of the points one of hte teachers made was that in the Bible (or at least in the church epistles) women are regarded as the equals of men in all catagories except possibly in the area of physical strength. I agree with Chatty Kathy that for a woman to go after a job she is not suited for just to prove a point hurts us more than helps us.
John and I are planning a trip to Washington D.C. this year and in preparation for that I have been reading some biographies of the Presidents and First Ladies. If you ever want to read about a collection of extraordinary women, you should read about some of those early First Ladies. They were certainly the intellectual and patriotic equals of their husbands. Very interesting reading.
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RainbowsGirl
Sorry Captain Spiritural, I was probably trying to say too much at one time! Hope this helps. Imbred should be inbred...I appologize for my errors.
qualifications: 1. a skill a quality or attribute that makes somebody suitable for a particular job,activity or task 2. meting conditions or requirements 3. something that modifies. limits or restricts
Inbred:existing naturally, through being possessed (not with "debbles" LOL) from birth or inherited from parents.
Does that help Captain????
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ChattyKathy
Qualifications:
1) yes that seems important with an example of some construction work that takes manly strength that most women don't normally have.
2) in the military a woman has to be able to perform like a man and if she can she has the same risks and demands on her but yes one has to meet the job specs regardless of male or female
3) like in the first one I feel women weren't built to do some labor type things and some are not even healthy for child bearing age women because of the strain it can put on your internal organs
Inbred:
This one I'm not so sure of examples of, I can come up with parents that have musical talents also being in their children, at the moment I can't think of male-female things though.
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johniam
By the way, I want to thank you guys for the way you treated my wife. It was a big step for her to post here and you all made her feel welcome. Thanx much.
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doojable
We may be women in authority - but we're NICE women in authority!
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FreeAtLast
Johniam tell her we would love to have her as a regular poster. She sounds like a very intelligent woman.
geeze I can't leave here for very long without missing something.
RainbowsGirl - Loving your insight here. You posed an intriguing question. I agree that there is much that is inbred or part of the wiring of a man and also a woman. For instance, it is said that women are able to multi-task better than men. Since we have to keep up with all of our little people and still manage to keep up with everyhing else we are doing in life I would think that God would have to have given us that ability as part of our make-up.
But then there are areas that are cultural or learned. For instance when I was a little girl, it was thought that women couldn't perform math skills as well as men but we have erased this stereotype in the last couple of decades and many of us are using our math skills and proving to be formidable.
Culture says women are catty and gosippy, and so we see these little drama queens carrying out that stereotype. But with a little instruction we see some girls breaking the cycle. And believe me I used to work in a coffee shop when I was 19, and those old me gossipped more than any woman I knew.
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ChattyKathy
Good points Free and you are welcome John and please do ask her to return.
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QuietThinker
This always happens to me...
I find myself in the midst of a terrific conversation and my life intrudes. Feh.
I have a gigantic test Friday (wherein I am the student and will be submitting to the Authority of both my text book and my professor) and so will be nose-buried until then. And mid-terms are starting.
I also have a test of my own to sit down and write (wherein I am the teacher and will juggle the ability to use my authority in a balanced way, for while I want my test to be fair, it must also achieve the learning objectives as well as push my students to apply reason in conjunction with memorization).
These have been great posts today and yesterday and I hope to have time to respond later this afternoon.
And, John...
I hope you will pass on to Jean how welcome her comments have been, if she's not reading herself (and a wave to Jean if you are). And I, too, hope she will return to post more.
Yours hurriedly,
~QT
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ChattyKathy
May your hours be multiplied as you go about your studies.
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Sushi
Just as an aside, perhaps 'innate' would have been a better word?
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Captain Spiritural
Thanxs I got it ...
and by the way to the guy or girl that e-mailed me yes yes its Captain ,Captain SPIRITURAL see ya guys around it was a very nice site I felt very welcome here. bye
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ChattyKathy
Then why leave us? :)
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RainbowsGirl
Thank You Sushi,
"Innate" may have been a better choice. They are similiar. Knowing myself as well as I do. I probably would have liked to go off in even another tangent and describe their similarity and why I chose inbred...sorry LOL...I do try to convey as much as I can and have a Huge tendancy to over do it. Then my thoughts lose their intent. I apologize to everyone.
What I should have done was compose it in Microsoft Word...thought in over clarified it and corrected it.
Too often so much comes to my mind at once in a great discuss like this one and I get lost in my own thoughts! I'll be working on that.
Love You All!
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FreeAtLast
Captain S. Please stay around. we are just getting to know you, it would be awesome to get to know you better.
RainbowsGirl, the more I read you the more impressed I am.
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johniam
Hi, Ladies,
Thank you for the wave. I am reading for myself, and I appologize for my part in the derailment. As far as the biblical side of this discussion, the Bible tells women to be in subjection to her own husband, not necessarily every man walking down the street. If that were the case women would end up being raped even more often then they already are (which is already too much). I am glad to see that you are being rational about this (i.e. being willing to concede that there are jobs that at least some women are not physically prepared for). I have read many articles about women who are resented for wanting equal status when they are not physically capable of doing equal work. The example that leaps to mind is in the military. Most women aren't capable of lifting a fifty pound backpack onto their backs and then going for a fifty mile hike. I think women are certainly the intellectual equals of men, but the idea of a woman president is a little hard for me to get my mind around. I watched most of the episodes of that show ' Commander in Chief" (I may have gotten the name wrong), and found the portrayal of a man in the role of 'First Gentleman" a little nauseating My twi background may be showing here.
Jeaniam
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ChattyKathy
Hi Jean,
I never watched that show but I can understand the concept of a man behind the wife getting lost; he'd have to be very secure in himself no doubt.
And there are some military positions that the woman can't do but most she can nowadays. But to go after a job not physically suited for a woman just to prove a point hurts us more than helps is still my opinion.
Glad to see you posting again.
Kathy
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FreeAtLast
Unfortunately I think Hilary ran the show when Bill was in office. I too have a hard time envisioning a woman as the prez. I am trying to see how it might work but my old Way mind makes it difficult.
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rascal
Well, just keep in mind that that *old way mind* was inspired by the cultural predjudices of 2000 plus years ago. I mean some of that women stuff in the bible we have already recogniosed as no longer applicable in todays world and dismissed...We cut our hair, we wear the clothes we like, we worship in the same room as the guys....we speak in public, own property....etc...and I just don`t see God having a problem with these things...while if it were to happen in biblical times the isrealites would no doubt stone us as heretics.
I see little advantage subjecting ourselves to the cultural rules and values of 2-5000 years ago....we accepted outragious restrictions and accepted roles as 2nd class citizens in twi in the belief that was how God requires things 2000 years later.
As far as military and women...I have a friend, 45 years old, mother of 3. Her reserve unit was called up and deployed to iraq.
Not only was she able to keep up physically, when they had a company wide contest going in a self defense sparring type of contest...she wasn`t participating....but her teammates started calling her...knowing what an accomplished fighter she was from a life time of training and staying fit. She whipped the stew out of the last guy standing....I kid you not!
My girls after 5 years of martial arts training could keep up with most guys be it running, fighting etc. I would not deny them the opportunity to fight if they wished.
As far as decision making abilities??? My goodness my 18 yr old just replaced a much older man as shift leader. She has far surpassed him already in her ability to take charge in tense situations.
I think it is all in how bad we want something as to whether or not we can achieve success.
Please don`t hold ourselves and our daughter back with the prejudices of a long dead civilization.
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ChattyKathy
It keeps coming back to common sense doesn't it? What is best for all can be left to the wayside if removed from the equation I feel.
I use to feel bad for the men that now had women in the mix on their job sites and wondered if there could have been some traditions and special bonds lost because they were no longer a group of men that could do and say as they wished without curbing their tongues and thoughts.
At the same time felt bad for the women who were expected to take secretarial jobs or something of that nature rather than lead positions in companies. (no disrespect meant to secretaries)
Today I think men can find their private spaces amongst just them so they can work out there needs that are different than ours and that women shouldn't hesitate to pursue something fitted to her physically and mentally.
We spend more hours of our lives working than anything other than sleeping so why not feel you are contributing your best in whatever job you do. And that includes the woman being the boss man and being the worker both.
Common sense just has to be part of the mix void of the brute of either sex having to prove their point.
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rascal
One thing to consider.....if we hold ourselves back because of biblical custom.... in the corporate world or our relationships.... Consider this.....the women in scriptures culturaly were denied an education, they were denied access to the temple and scriptures, they were TOLD that God didn`t want them to be anything other than wives and mothers....who was going to go against God and men?
Sure they were incapable of being successfull professionally. They had neither the education, nor were allowed to develop the skills necessary to succede in their culture at the time.
All the resources and teachings were focused on the sons. The women in order to survive had to define their role in the parameter that their culture allowed.
I think we do ourselves a tremendous disservice to convince ourselves that somehow we are less capable to persue our interests and goals....these days in most instances I think, is a level playing field of opportunity.
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rascal
I guess the statements about being subject to our husbands or guys being able to do the job better has bothered me.
Sometimes I think that we are talked into holding ourselves back in order to fit someones idea of virtuous or Godly...shrug
In this day and age we are allowed access to all of the same education and resources that the guys have. If it is an area of physical endeavor, such as police, fireman, army, etc...then we may have to work harder to succede, where as a guy might be naturally gifted.....
Just like we (or they) may not be as mentally sharp as the next person, get as good a grades in school etc if one wants to excell in a scientific field.... but hard work can make up for our lack if we want it bad enough....the options are there for us if we want to work hard enough to achioeve our goal.
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ChattyKathy
I believe there could be some physical jobs that stress the organs of a child bearing woman and in that case it wouldn't be that she wasn't qualified rather it just wouldn't be a wise choice.
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QuietThinker
~~~Study Break~~~
I would suggest, Rascal, that the playing field is leveling though not fully in balance. And to be perfectly realistic, it's likely never going to be truly equal...one end slightly up, the other slightly down...always striving for equilibrium--that perfect state of homeostasis in which all systems are operating under the optimum conditions. And I don't mean to imply that women will always be on the down-side in terms of the issues that we're discussing.
Circumstances have changed, as have many societal customs. What was seen as normative even ten years ago, well, shifts have occurred and still do. In the primary areas of influence--those directly in contact with each of us--there's a great deal of influence in terms of making a personal impact in education. I mean, that by our actions and examples at work and at home and with our friends, women can make a great impact on the thinking of others. (This, by the way, is also a reason why Hillary scares me, because, well, her actions and examples don't...shall we say...increase the buffer zone of my comfort level).
I think it has proven historically accurate to say that whenever a group has sought to change their collective lot in the social structure, those first pioneers have had to hold a strong line. I'm thinking now of early suffragettes, the first women to enter predominantly male professions, and those types of examples. They had to be the best of the best, whether or not that was fair, in order to even be accepted. But, the continued press toward equality and the ability to command authority owes a great deal to those who first had the courage to stand up and say, "You know what, I've got a great brain...and natural abilities...I'll just be using them, thanks awfully."
There are many precepts by which people can come to an individual determination of what defines the role of authority in any relationship. This thread has showcased multiple viewpoints...and I think that one commonality I've noticed is that no one commands a natural authority without also commanding respect. Authority can be wrested, abused, and used to punish as well as harm. Just because someone does that, however, doesn't make the usurpation of that authority meritorious or legitimate.
Just something I'm thinking...
Must....study....now
~QT
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johniam
Hi,again,
John and I went to a marriage seminar in Nashville, TN a week ago, and one of the points one of hte teachers made was that in the Bible (or at least in the church epistles) women are regarded as the equals of men in all catagories except possibly in the area of physical strength. I agree with Chatty Kathy that for a woman to go after a job she is not suited for just to prove a point hurts us more than helps us.
Jeaniam
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johniam
Hi, again,
John and I are planning a trip to Washington D.C. this year and in preparation for that I have been reading some biographies of the Presidents and First Ladies. If you ever want to read about a collection of extraordinary women, you should read about some of those early First Ladies. They were certainly the intellectual and patriotic equals of their husbands. Very interesting reading.
Jeaniam
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