By the way, do you all just want a woman president just to have one, or can you think of a woman who would really be better at the job than anyavailable and interested man would be, since we all seem to agree that Hilary stinks.
I'm probably not caught up enough to start replying but will anyway as I need a breather here at work.
I think woman generally have protective instincts built into us and we will guard our family's home and table with teeth showing if required. And I believe we are less apt to put as much focus on needing a legacy after we are no longer needed for our job of mothering. Granted we want our children to do well and make us proud but we will love them regardless because generally that is built into a good mother which God designed we be at the start. If we aren't then something happened individually not to the whole of womankind.
So in light of just those two points I don't think a woman President would be as apt to give our resources away to foreign countries when she knows it will take from the table of her own kind. (And you'll have to take this as an effort of explanation and not one of bigotry please) Nor would we make decisions to make us look like the top dog so we can pound our chests if we consider the long term impacts of those decisions.
I know that will sound snobbish towards men perhaps but anyone that would consider me that way; well they just don't know me at all.
A man has strengths that you would just assume him to be the better choice but women have gained in areas that long ago we were considered uneducated and not adapt at, those things are no longer status quo in our society. Others yes but not in the US of A.
I don't see a woman out there right now that would fit the bill I personally would like to see in office but I hope in the very near future we will see women being considered equally to the men. And after all with the history we've had how could a woman do worse?
I'd just like a good President and I think that discussing the necessary qualities for the job would help determine the outcome.
In lieu of that, perhaps we need to figure out what area of authority we are interested in discussing. I mean -Authority can be conferred, deferred, neglected, and just taken or taken for Granted.
I'm going to repeat that I never jumped on the feminist bandwagon. I just feel that people need to be respected in general. Bias should never come into play.
Now this all gets sticky when we have two equally qualified people going for the same position. Is that worth discussing. Someone might need to duck eventually.
Can we leave the personal slams for the PMs??? Puleeeezzzzz!?
Not really as an effort to derail the thread but to introduce a new twist that my daughter brought up over the weekend. Since we're discussing the Presidency and one minority, perhaps we should consider the fact that we have yet to elect our first African-American President. I know this is somewhat off-topic, but it is true that 99% of our Presidents have been WASPs (with the possible exception of JFK, who was Catholic). Are there any strong feelings on this subject?
And, to repeat myself, I am not sure that a woman president needs to have different qualities than a male president does, i.e. a solid education, a good brain, sound political savvy, an honest group of advisors and an unshakeable grip on the proverb: "vox populi, vox dei": the voice of the people is the voice of God, something a lot of politicians lose sight of.
The thread that prompted this offshoot the election of an African-American president was mentioned. I haven't been keeping up with that thread so I don't know what ever came of it. I know I would have voted for Colin Powel had he gone and run. I felt of all the possibilities that year he was the one that exhibited morals, and ethics that would have not only set a stellar example for young African-Americans but all young Americans. But as it usually is the good ones don't run.
Let me try this again I will try and direct you to the thread.
That sounds like a subject for the Politics Forum....But I have no problem with anyone holding that office as long as they are qualified. Race, gender, religion, shouldn't enter into it. I know that some would have a problem with certain religions...
I try real hard to look at people and see them - not the labels that are given to them.
And, to repeat myself, I am not sure that a woman president needs to have different qualities than a male president does, i.e. a solid education, a good brain, sound political savvy, an honest group of advisors and an unshakeable grip on the proverb: "vox populi, vox dei": the voice of the people is the voice of God, something a lot of politicians lose sight of.
Just to qualify - I never said, nor did I mean to imply that a woman would need different qualities to hold the office of President. If you look at my posts, I keep asking for a list of characteristics and qualities that we feel are necessary to serve as President. I'm fairly certain that the more defined this list is, the easier it would be to see the right person for the job should he/she decide to run.
The thread that prompted this offshoot the election of an African-American president was mentioned. I haven't been keeping up with that thread so I don't know what ever came of it. I know I would have voted for Colin Powel had he gone and run. I felt of all the possibilities that year he was the one that exhibited morals, and ethics that would have not only set a stellar example for young African-Americans but all young Americans. But as it usually is the good ones don't run.
Let me try this again I will try and direct you to the thread.
BTW in then early days of this country, the way the vice President was selected was that he was the loser of the presidential election. I guess that was another one of the checks and balances the founding fathers put in the Constitution. It might not be a bad thing to revive today.
This was interesting in light of attributes required.
What America needs in a president: The qualities that make a genuine president
What attributes should the President of the United States have? Intelligence is important, but vision is the ability to sort through the information, and reach good decisions. Decisiveness is important, if the decisions are good. Decisiveness can be devastating, if the decisions are poor, as we've learned, recently. Leadership is important, if we are led in a positive direction. Leading us off a cliff is always a possibility if we aren't vigilant in watching the country's direction.
We tend to vote for people whom we can identify with, as much like ourselves. I don't want someone like myself. I want someone smarter than me, and better trained to do the job; but alas, we have to pick from candidates much like me, a bit confused, and poorly suited to do a huge job, maybe the most important job, possible. That's why we have checks and balances, or did, to keep one person's ineptitude from doing too much damage.
We vote for someone who can speak well, and that's not a bad thing, but speeches are not accurate indicators of ability to perform. We vote for someone who is attractive. Too long a face, you lose. You look and sound like Deppity Dawg (and a closet Republican), you lose. If appearance was the top requirement, Edwards would be a shoe-in. I think Edwards suffers from being too attractive. "We want someone like ourselves," out-trumps, "We want someone attractive."
Hillary is smart, kind of attractive, after some "work." She makes pretty speeches, and has proven she is a competent performer in the political arena, but she won't win. Why? I'm not sure. I think it has something to do with going backwards, or the stigma of the scandals, or maybe just because we don't like her. She's certainly not "one of us."
Obama is new, fresh, attractive I suppose, well groomed, anyway. He makes a good speech, and is inclusive, positive, uplifting, visionary, competent, but he won't win, I'll bet. Why? Because he's black, and he has an Arab name, and if there is anything many Americans hate more than blacks, it's Arabs, since 9-11. Cruel? Harsh? I hope so, but I am a realist, and racism is still alive and well, I'm afraid. It has just manifested itself in a different way.
The Republicans? McCain was my guy a few years ago, then he sold his soul, and his time is past. Giuliani? He's a liberal in Emperors' clothing. Romney? Talk about flip flopping! Gingrich? You're kidding, right?
So, who's left? Richardson? I'm willing to bet that Richardson is a V.P. candidate.
The best news is that it won't be Georgie W. I knew him when he was "young and irresponsible." He never grew out of it. I had a bumper sticker made up that reads: EDWARDS/OBAMA '08. We'll see. I've voted on the losing side of many tickets in my life. The winner will be the one with the catchiest slogan and the most money.
Oh, there's Gore. Nahh, he already won, and has moved on.
Kathy, I might disagree with your assessments as to why people wouldn`t vote for hillary or obama. Gender and race seem to play very little part in most of todays opinions, at least as far as I can tell.
A lot of folks actually do their homework to find out what peoples voting records are, what their core values are in order to see what is behind the pretty exterior and personable speeches, and chose what they believe is best for the country, rather than who might appeal to us personally. It wouldn`t be gender that prevents her attaining the white house.
I hope that we are getting a little more sophisticated in how we base our decisions that affect our country.
The reason I brought that article was because it covered some of the prejudices we have talked about in this thread. And I agree, I hope we are moving beyond them.
I see you edited your post so I assume you knew then it was not my thoughts dear.
I found the one of the last name and color of the man disturbing and considered my strong views on not giving our resources away and hoped I never sound like that. But I bet it's been thought to have even made print. That over all thing really does rely too much on what the person looks like I thought. And they could have three eyes and I'd vote for them if they had some of my views.
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FreeAtLast
Thank you thank you thank you very much.
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ChattyKathy
Congrats Free!
And it's hard to find a clean mud wrestling picture. :unsure:
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Jeaniam
By the way, do you all just want a woman president just to have one, or can you think of a woman who would really be better at the job than anyavailable and interested man would be, since we all seem to agree that Hilary stinks.
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ChattyKathy
Jean,
I'm probably not caught up enough to start replying but will anyway as I need a breather here at work.
I think woman generally have protective instincts built into us and we will guard our family's home and table with teeth showing if required. And I believe we are less apt to put as much focus on needing a legacy after we are no longer needed for our job of mothering. Granted we want our children to do well and make us proud but we will love them regardless because generally that is built into a good mother which God designed we be at the start. If we aren't then something happened individually not to the whole of womankind.
So in light of just those two points I don't think a woman President would be as apt to give our resources away to foreign countries when she knows it will take from the table of her own kind. (And you'll have to take this as an effort of explanation and not one of bigotry please) Nor would we make decisions to make us look like the top dog so we can pound our chests if we consider the long term impacts of those decisions.
I know that will sound snobbish towards men perhaps but anyone that would consider me that way; well they just don't know me at all.
A man has strengths that you would just assume him to be the better choice but women have gained in areas that long ago we were considered uneducated and not adapt at, those things are no longer status quo in our society. Others yes but not in the US of A.
I don't see a woman out there right now that would fit the bill I personally would like to see in office but I hope in the very near future we will see women being considered equally to the men. And after all with the history we've had how could a woman do worse?
Kathy
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QuietThinker
I am extremely behind in this thread, but, Kathy's post reminded me of something. Have we touched at all on Brain Chemistry yet?
Asking seriously,
~QT
(Whose own brain chemistry is altered at the moment - school, feh!)
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Bumpy
Hobbes is on "vacation" but he sent me a postcard which said..."I guess behind every successful man stands an AMAZED woman!!
Your Friend Bumpy!
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ChattyKathy
And QT, we did touch on it some and I know they said we are wired differently but I could stand to learn more for certain.
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doojable
I'd just like a good President and I think that discussing the necessary qualities for the job would help determine the outcome.
In lieu of that, perhaps we need to figure out what area of authority we are interested in discussing. I mean -Authority can be conferred, deferred, neglected, and just taken or taken for Granted.
I'm going to repeat that I never jumped on the feminist bandwagon. I just feel that people need to be respected in general. Bias should never come into play.
Now this all gets sticky when we have two equally qualified people going for the same position. Is that worth discussing. Someone might need to duck eventually.
Can we leave the personal slams for the PMs??? Puleeeezzzzz!?
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Jeaniam
Not really as an effort to derail the thread but to introduce a new twist that my daughter brought up over the weekend. Since we're discussing the Presidency and one minority, perhaps we should consider the fact that we have yet to elect our first African-American President. I know this is somewhat off-topic, but it is true that 99% of our Presidents have been WASPs (with the possible exception of JFK, who was Catholic). Are there any strong feelings on this subject?
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Jeaniam
And, to repeat myself, I am not sure that a woman president needs to have different qualities than a male president does, i.e. a solid education, a good brain, sound political savvy, an honest group of advisors and an unshakeable grip on the proverb: "vox populi, vox dei": the voice of the people is the voice of God, something a lot of politicians lose sight of.
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ChattyKathy
I'm concerned with what they will do for our country not their color or religion although I would like to see a woman for the reasons I've mentioned.
And if a male and female are equally qualified I doubt the woman will get the job. We just aren't quite there yet. But we are growing.
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FreeAtLast
The thread that prompted this offshoot the election of an African-American president was mentioned. I haven't been keeping up with that thread so I don't know what ever came of it. I know I would have voted for Colin Powel had he gone and run. I felt of all the possibilities that year he was the one that exhibited morals, and ethics that would have not only set a stellar example for young African-Americans but all young Americans. But as it usually is the good ones don't run.
Let me try this again I will try and direct you to the thread.
Nontheistic congressman link
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doojable
That sounds like a subject for the Politics Forum....But I have no problem with anyone holding that office as long as they are qualified. Race, gender, religion, shouldn't enter into it. I know that some would have a problem with certain religions...
I try real hard to look at people and see them - not the labels that are given to them.
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ChattyKathy
I would have voted for Colin Powel in a second, okay no more derail for me I hope.
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doojable
Just to qualify - I never said, nor did I mean to imply that a woman would need different qualities to hold the office of President. If you look at my posts, I keep asking for a list of characteristics and qualities that we feel are necessary to serve as President. I'm fairly certain that the more defined this list is, the easier it would be to see the right person for the job should he/she decide to run.
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Jeaniam
Thank you very much. I wasn't aware of that thread when I posted. I'll look it up.
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Jeaniam
BTW in then early days of this country, the way the vice President was selected was that he was the loser of the presidential election. I guess that was another one of the checks and balances the founding fathers put in the Constitution. It might not be a bad thing to revive today.
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ChattyKathy
I agree Jean, that would be a wise choice for them to return to.
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ChattyKathy
This was interesting in light of attributes required.
What America needs in a president: The qualities that make a genuine president
What attributes should the President of the United States have? Intelligence is important, but vision is the ability to sort through the information, and reach good decisions. Decisiveness is important, if the decisions are good. Decisiveness can be devastating, if the decisions are poor, as we've learned, recently. Leadership is important, if we are led in a positive direction. Leading us off a cliff is always a possibility if we aren't vigilant in watching the country's direction.
We tend to vote for people whom we can identify with, as much like ourselves. I don't want someone like myself. I want someone smarter than me, and better trained to do the job; but alas, we have to pick from candidates much like me, a bit confused, and poorly suited to do a huge job, maybe the most important job, possible. That's why we have checks and balances, or did, to keep one person's ineptitude from doing too much damage.
We vote for someone who can speak well, and that's not a bad thing, but speeches are not accurate indicators of ability to perform. We vote for someone who is attractive. Too long a face, you lose. You look and sound like Deppity Dawg (and a closet Republican), you lose. If appearance was the top requirement, Edwards would be a shoe-in. I think Edwards suffers from being too attractive. "We want someone like ourselves," out-trumps, "We want someone attractive."
Hillary is smart, kind of attractive, after some "work." She makes pretty speeches, and has proven she is a competent performer in the political arena, but she won't win. Why? I'm not sure. I think it has something to do with going backwards, or the stigma of the scandals, or maybe just because we don't like her. She's certainly not "one of us."
Obama is new, fresh, attractive I suppose, well groomed, anyway. He makes a good speech, and is inclusive, positive, uplifting, visionary, competent, but he won't win, I'll bet. Why? Because he's black, and he has an Arab name, and if there is anything many Americans hate more than blacks, it's Arabs, since 9-11. Cruel? Harsh? I hope so, but I am a realist, and racism is still alive and well, I'm afraid. It has just manifested itself in a different way.
The Republicans? McCain was my guy a few years ago, then he sold his soul, and his time is past. Giuliani? He's a liberal in Emperors' clothing. Romney? Talk about flip flopping! Gingrich? You're kidding, right?
So, who's left? Richardson? I'm willing to bet that Richardson is a V.P. candidate.
The best news is that it won't be Georgie W. I knew him when he was "young and irresponsible." He never grew out of it. I had a bumper sticker made up that reads: EDWARDS/OBAMA '08. We'll see. I've voted on the losing side of many tickets in my life. The winner will be the one with the catchiest slogan and the most money.
Oh, there's Gore. Nahh, he already won, and has moved on.
source
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rascal
Congratulations Free!
Kathy, I might disagree with your assessments as to why people wouldn`t vote for hillary or obama. Gender and race seem to play very little part in most of todays opinions, at least as far as I can tell.
A lot of folks actually do their homework to find out what peoples voting records are, what their core values are in order to see what is behind the pretty exterior and personable speeches, and chose what they believe is best for the country, rather than who might appeal to us personally. It wouldn`t be gender that prevents her attaining the white house.
I hope that we are getting a little more sophisticated in how we base our decisions that affect our country.
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ChattyKathy
Cathy,
I agree with you and that was an article I found interesting in light of folks possible thoughts, but they aren't mine actually.
Sorry for the confusion.
Kathy
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ChattyKathy
Cathy,
The reason I brought that article was because it covered some of the prejudices we have talked about in this thread. And I agree, I hope we are moving beyond them.
I see you edited your post so I assume you knew then it was not my thoughts dear.
Kathy
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rascal
AHHHHH sorry Kathy, I assumed that you were telling us that was the case. Thanks for clarifying. Sorry bout that...lol
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ChattyKathy
I found the one of the last name and color of the man disturbing and considered my strong views on not giving our resources away and hoped I never sound like that. But I bet it's been thought to have even made print. That over all thing really does rely too much on what the person looks like I thought. And they could have three eyes and I'd vote for them if they had some of my views.
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