I think you answered your own question by what you saw. They never had a position statement , but those that could "handle it" any thing was fine ---"happy is the man in the thing that he alloweth" you just weren't supposed to be a stumbling block---whatever they meant by that-- who knows.
Gosh I guess I am getting old and have forgotten. This was best forgotten I think.
The thinking was God doesn't give you things you can't handle. So if you can handle porn and still stay in fellowship....hey its ok!!!! Same with meeting the needs of a Man of God...if you can stay in fellowship and meet the needs then its ok, in fact its meeting their needs so your giving and everyone is blessed.....
So, to twi it all depends on how much you can handle. Sad....
Now in my personal life I don't think that porn is a bad thing. But its the screwed up thinking of twi that gets to the real nasty stuff that hurts people.
Most of my "RAH, RAH, GO TEAM!" years were in the '70's.
I vividly remember twig leader meetings where it was taught that even having "Playboy" in your home was an invitation to devil spirits.( we're talkin' '70's here)
In Fellowlaborers, we had spot checks where the coordinators had access to everything all the way to and including your underwear drawer and, believe me, they did check everything. I know there is at least one other F.L. here who may remember.
Point is, in the '70's it was very much forbidden.
Come to think of it, there was never any real from-the-stage stand against any sin that the Bible calls sin (putting things ahead of God, lying, stealing, fornication, hard-heartedness, lack of compassion).
The only behaviors as I think of it that were not tolerated were those against twi's cult mind-set -- the things things such as failure to be yes-people to the latest twi-edicts.
Once moving some single guys a bit of soft porn was seen in a box by the LC, he covered it and said what ever we do don't let his wife see those. Another time a TC let a newbie stay in their basement and his wife saw some stashed porn and he and his devil spirit pictures had to go. LCM taught some devil spirit name was where we get the word pornography from and it was wrong. Now he and some other women than his wife "Kodak" moments are said to have helped at least one law suit.
As with all things Way, no way did they have a set rule.
Not that I enjoy reliving this episode from the 70's, but I was 'caught' with a Playboy magazine, that is, it was found while my favorite 'leader' decided to go through my dresser drawer and closet to see what's doing.
I was called on the carpet in front of 5 others, and read the riot act about devil spirit infiltration, and this explained why I wasn't doing the Word. This incident was on the heels of a day when I decided to visit my parents rather than go door to door witnessing, which sent up smoke signals to the leader, who decided my personal belongings must be investigated to root out the cause of this crime against God.
I had to sit there while they tore the magazine up and fed it to the fire. I was then put on a probation of sorts, with 'assignments' to study the Bible after work every day until twig time, on top of the utter humiliation of the whole event. This was but one event in a 2 year 'beating' I found myself on the receiving end of, but that's another story.
In the mid 80's I attended a weekend retreat at my LC's house with all of the other BC's. One evening the "boys" all went out, I don't know where and didn't care as I did not have a male counterpart at the time, but the LC's wife and most of the BC's wives all went down to the basement. The basement was completely finished and they had a kind of second living room set up. Anyway, I was invited to join them for a movie. I went; and they turned on a Lesbian porn flic. I sat in long enough to get the idea of what was going on and then I retreated upstairs where a few other women had stayed. I was told in not so many words that if I didn't like what was "happening" downstairs I should probably just stay upstairs.
So... was there a policy? I never heard of one and it certainly was not discussed.
Not that I enjoy reliving this episode from the 70's, but I was 'caught' with a Playboy magazine, that is, it was found while my favorite 'leader' decided to go through my dresser drawer and closet to see what's doing.
What a bizzare set of double and conflicting standards. One of the 70's California limb leaders said he regularly purchased Playboy for the articles. And for that matter, a 70's Playboy would be classed as erotica rather than porn. There is a difference.
I remember being told once that Playboy centerfolds were women's bodies with 12 yr old boys' faces superimposed on them. Never heard any TWI policy about that, but every so often I'd be at a bachelor party for someone in TWI and porno movies would be shown, or a 'strip-o-gram' would happen.
I didn't mind the way those pictures were used in the CFS class, but considering that the Christian marriage is compared with Christ's relationship to the church, and the very first marriage produced the sin that required Christ to redeem us, I've come to the conclusion that there is no better witness for Christianity than a married couple that lives Ephesians 5...and no worse witness than one that doesn't.
OH MY! I forgot about the "branch leader" checks in FLO. Of course they did that in the FWC also, but by then I was much more brainwashed. I definitely told the BL my first year in FLO to stay out of my unmentionables drawer. He smoked a pipe, and used this vanilla scented pipe tobacco, and one day I came home from work and the upstairs of our apartment smelled like it, and was I ever irritated. My first thought was to buy some mousetraps and stick at the bottom of the drawers. But I did buy some stuff I hope embarrassed the he** out of anyone who looked. (Boy was I naive!)
I never actually thought of someone stealing from me under the guise of leadership inspections, though it probably happened in other situations. I did have to retrieve some nice jewelry from someone who "borrowed" it and kept it locked in her car, even though her room was right next door though.
Johniam - I never got to go to a way Bachelor party in all my 16 years there that had a porno. I never got to see a strip o gram. How were you so lucky?
Out there: Twice I was at a party with a strip'o'gram. Both in STL in the 80s. A girl wearing only a G string danced very close to the soon to be groom. There were 2 bouncers on hand with a boom box and contemporary music with a beat. Cost was $50.00 plus gratuities were expected. I went to one bachelor party in GR for Hal B**l*y. Lot of the guys were there. Someone had fused the movie 'Bachelor Party' with a porno movie. There was a scene in the movie BP where the guys are already at the hotel suite trying to watch porno that the girls had edited. At THAT point the porno movie kicked in. Jack H*lw*rd* and Mike P*cc*r*ll* were especially vocal during graphic scenes. It was a fun time. Lucky? I've never thought of STL being a "sin city" even compared to GR, but recently the paper had an article about restaurants that feature belly dancing during prime time.
Some of those in attendance objected to the porn but I don't recall any top local leadership having to be involved.
Wow I must have been sheltered from all this poop. i don't ever remember even a hint of this stuff going on. I remember once after leaving the way seeing what I would consider soft porn at one of those slumber parties. As if the party wasn't embarassing enough but then they put that soft porn on the TV. Well I was completely embarassed and appalled and left the room. I wondered if it were my way upbringing that caused such a different reaction to this than the other women in the room had. I guess it couldn't have been that. lol Guess I am just a prude.
I am finding these stories interesting. Funny 28 years and I never knew any of this stuff was going on until I come out here and boy did I get an eye opener with the sexual scandals and now this.
FAL: It wasn't an official TWI function. Just individual believers jazzing up their particular situation. If stuff like this was regularly scheduled and lots of believers were involved, then it might be more than a blip on the screen, but our attitude was...we're not under law, just don't regard the creation more than the Creator.
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washingtonweather
I think you answered your own question by what you saw. They never had a position statement , but those that could "handle it" any thing was fine ---"happy is the man in the thing that he alloweth" you just weren't supposed to be a stumbling block---whatever they meant by that-- who knows.
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vickles
Gosh I guess I am getting old and have forgotten. This was best forgotten I think.
The thinking was God doesn't give you things you can't handle. So if you can handle porn and still stay in fellowship....hey its ok!!!! Same with meeting the needs of a Man of God...if you can stay in fellowship and meet the needs then its ok, in fact its meeting their needs so your giving and everyone is blessed.....
So, to twi it all depends on how much you can handle. Sad....
Now in my personal life I don't think that porn is a bad thing. But its the screwed up thinking of twi that gets to the real nasty stuff that hurts people.
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WordWolf
Well,
it was ok for vpw to go shopping for pornography to show students in the CFS class.
vpw was ok to do anything because he was "spiritually mature".
It was ok for vpw to show pornography to students in the CFS class.
It was ok for vpw to show some students a film on bestiality, and describe it to the others.
So, in the vpw era, it was hardly condemned in loud voices.
Before 1990, I am unable to find any answers on it one way or the other.
After 1990, I'd bet there isn't one either.
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nandon
TWI never really had a policy on that stuff. they had a policy on just about everything else, except sexual stuff.
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vickles
snort snort, wonder why?
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waysider
Most of my "RAH, RAH, GO TEAM!" years were in the '70's.
I vividly remember twig leader meetings where it was taught that even having "Playboy" in your home was an invitation to devil spirits.( we're talkin' '70's here)
In Fellowlaborers, we had spot checks where the coordinators had access to everything all the way to and including your underwear drawer and, believe me, they did check everything. I know there is at least one other F.L. here who may remember.
Point is, in the '70's it was very much forbidden.
I hope that offers some insight.
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vickles
Well you see I was taught the same thing until I 'matured' and was able to handle the other stuff. So they taught one thing but did something else.
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Kit Sober
Come to think of it, there was never any real from-the-stage stand against any sin that the Bible calls sin (putting things ahead of God, lying, stealing, fornication, hard-heartedness, lack of compassion).
The only behaviors as I think of it that were not tolerated were those against twi's cult mind-set -- the things things such as failure to be yes-people to the latest twi-edicts.
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Ductape
Once moving some single guys a bit of soft porn was seen in a box by the LC, he covered it and said what ever we do don't let his wife see those. Another time a TC let a newbie stay in their basement and his wife saw some stashed porn and he and his devil spirit pictures had to go. LCM taught some devil spirit name was where we get the word pornography from and it was wrong. Now he and some other women than his wife "Kodak" moments are said to have helped at least one law suit.
As with all things Way, no way did they have a set rule.
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hiway29
Not that I enjoy reliving this episode from the 70's, but I was 'caught' with a Playboy magazine, that is, it was found while my favorite 'leader' decided to go through my dresser drawer and closet to see what's doing.
I was called on the carpet in front of 5 others, and read the riot act about devil spirit infiltration, and this explained why I wasn't doing the Word. This incident was on the heels of a day when I decided to visit my parents rather than go door to door witnessing, which sent up smoke signals to the leader, who decided my personal belongings must be investigated to root out the cause of this crime against God.
I had to sit there while they tore the magazine up and fed it to the fire. I was then put on a probation of sorts, with 'assignments' to study the Bible after work every day until twig time, on top of the utter humiliation of the whole event. This was but one event in a 2 year 'beating' I found myself on the receiving end of, but that's another story.
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Eyesopen
In the mid 80's I attended a weekend retreat at my LC's house with all of the other BC's. One evening the "boys" all went out, I don't know where and didn't care as I did not have a male counterpart at the time, but the LC's wife and most of the BC's wives all went down to the basement. The basement was completely finished and they had a kind of second living room set up. Anyway, I was invited to join them for a movie. I went; and they turned on a Lesbian porn flic. I sat in long enough to get the idea of what was going on and then I retreated upstairs where a few other women had stayed. I was told in not so many words that if I didn't like what was "happening" downstairs I should probably just stay upstairs.
So... was there a policy? I never heard of one and it certainly was not discussed.
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Jim
What a bizzare set of double and conflicting standards. One of the 70's California limb leaders said he regularly purchased Playboy for the articles. And for that matter, a 70's Playboy would be classed as erotica rather than porn. There is a difference.
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johniam
I remember being told once that Playboy centerfolds were women's bodies with 12 yr old boys' faces superimposed on them. Never heard any TWI policy about that, but every so often I'd be at a bachelor party for someone in TWI and porno movies would be shown, or a 'strip-o-gram' would happen.
I didn't mind the way those pictures were used in the CFS class, but considering that the Christian marriage is compared with Christ's relationship to the church, and the very first marriage produced the sin that required Christ to redeem us, I've come to the conclusion that there is no better witness for Christianity than a married couple that lives Ephesians 5...and no worse witness than one that doesn't.
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Watered Garden
OH MY! I forgot about the "branch leader" checks in FLO. Of course they did that in the FWC also, but by then I was much more brainwashed. I definitely told the BL my first year in FLO to stay out of my unmentionables drawer. He smoked a pipe, and used this vanilla scented pipe tobacco, and one day I came home from work and the upstairs of our apartment smelled like it, and was I ever irritated. My first thought was to buy some mousetraps and stick at the bottom of the drawers. But I did buy some stuff I hope embarrassed the he** out of anyone who looked. (Boy was I naive!)
I never actually thought of someone stealing from me under the guise of leadership inspections, though it probably happened in other situations. I did have to retrieve some nice jewelry from someone who "borrowed" it and kept it locked in her car, even though her room was right next door though.
Maybe I will start a thread on stuff like that...
WG
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Out There
Johniam - I never got to go to a way Bachelor party in all my 16 years there that had a porno. I never got to see a strip o gram. How were you so lucky?
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johniam
Out there: Twice I was at a party with a strip'o'gram. Both in STL in the 80s. A girl wearing only a G string danced very close to the soon to be groom. There were 2 bouncers on hand with a boom box and contemporary music with a beat. Cost was $50.00 plus gratuities were expected. I went to one bachelor party in GR for Hal B**l*y. Lot of the guys were there. Someone had fused the movie 'Bachelor Party' with a porno movie. There was a scene in the movie BP where the guys are already at the hotel suite trying to watch porno that the girls had edited. At THAT point the porno movie kicked in. Jack H*lw*rd* and Mike P*cc*r*ll* were especially vocal during graphic scenes. It was a fun time. Lucky? I've never thought of STL being a "sin city" even compared to GR, but recently the paper had an article about restaurants that feature belly dancing during prime time.
Some of those in attendance objected to the porn but I don't recall any top local leadership having to be involved.
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FreeAtLast
Wow I must have been sheltered from all this poop. i don't ever remember even a hint of this stuff going on. I remember once after leaving the way seeing what I would consider soft porn at one of those slumber parties. As if the party wasn't embarassing enough but then they put that soft porn on the TV. Well I was completely embarassed and appalled and left the room. I wondered if it were my way upbringing that caused such a different reaction to this than the other women in the room had. I guess it couldn't have been that. lol Guess I am just a prude.
I am finding these stories interesting. Funny 28 years and I never knew any of this stuff was going on until I come out here and boy did I get an eye opener with the sexual scandals and now this.
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johniam
FAL: It wasn't an official TWI function. Just individual believers jazzing up their particular situation. If stuff like this was regularly scheduled and lots of believers were involved, then it might be more than a blip on the screen, but our attitude was...we're not under law, just don't regard the creation more than the Creator.
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FreeAtLast
Well to each his own. As long as it wasn't affecting other detrimentally then it's your own deal. Unlike the use of power in seducing women.
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