Never know whose sitting around in the dark wit ya.
Sounds like Ctulu, Oak. Or something-ulde.
...
I love this subject. Tongues.
(mwah, Ex)
Angels and men have spoke in tongues since before Babylon.
Like how flames taste the air, tongues of angels taste spiritual fruit.
And its no figure of speech.
Its getting clearer and clearer to me that all VP ever taught was tongues of men. Like music without meaning...semi-wonderful, but meaningless. Purposeless. Like a cloud without water. or a seed that was afraid to die.
And all the hype over Pentecost is over-simplified, like a kid with a porno mag thinkin heez in complete control (Like most of modern pseudo-rational Christianity and industrial science, I suppose).
SGL: No, that's the Black Speech of Mordor. Cthulhu would be "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." Can I get a "Iä Iä" from the cultists?
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
If, in shark infested waters, it?s foolish to walk the handrail on the left side of a ferryboat, does that mean it?s wise to walk on the right side handrail?
You wrote: ?Its getting clearer and clearer to me that all VP ever taught was tongues of men. Like music without meaning...semi-wonderful, but meaningless. Purposeless. Like a cloud without water. or a seed that was afraid to die.?
Sounds like ?understanding is unfruitful? ? In the soul or mind, SIT was useless. It benefited an area we can?t grasp with our senses, the spirit.
The Corinthians were carnal, but they had something good in SIT. Same with us.
But Jesus talked about NEW tongues also. Whether that?s tongues of angels or not, I don?t know.
I do know that Paul was able to do better than the Corinthians in the SIT department.
As we were taught, SIT is only ?in part? or imperfect in a way. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. I like the idea of the cessation of tongues and the coming of the greater.
*******
Most of us have held a mental model in our minds regarding the Appearing Administration that I think needs some upgrading. This particular point I have seen regards the speed with which the prophesied events take place in it. I have caught myself and many others thinking that the "atom of time" refers to many, if not all, of our experiences in seeing him as he is at that time.
From what I see in I Cor.15, the atom of time comes at the end of the end, very late in the administration, at the last trumpet. It is our new body that takes no time for us to receive. This is NOT the way things usually happen, and that's why this one exception to slow growth (God's preferred method), this new body reception, is documented as happening very quickly.
We were taught that it takes time for a mind to change. We saw how long it took Peter to change his mind regarding the new administration he was in. Dr teaches in RHST about the slowness of minds to change. It takes only an atom of time to give us to the new body, but how long does it take God to TEACH us the perfectly renewed mind?
We already have the perfect spirit, and that perfectly renewed mind is next on the list. THEN, after we all are synchronized on thinking the same things, we can all then, with our total community believing, receive that new body very quickly. But for each one of us to get to that new mind takes time.
I have wondered about when tongues will cease. I now expect that it will be a voluntary thing, and that will depend on believing. Maybe not everyone will cease tongues at the same time, but each believer will wait until he sees that which is perfect which has come. Even upon seeing that, it STILL takes time to recognize it as "that which is perfect" deep down, especially deep enough to feel it's really time to cease something as cherished as tongues. That which is perfect will have to be well proved before a diligent PFAL grad would relinquish SIT.
I no longer believe that we will be zapped with the perfectly renewed mind. I do believe it's God's responsibility to make perfect teaching available for it along with the perfect teacher, His Son. I used to think that some kind of Godly possession would take place at the Gathering when we see Jesus, and we'd get zapped instantly with that new mind. No more do I think that way. I now call that way of thinking the "Rap-Zap" model. The "Rap" is for "rapture."
In this Rap-Zap model, what could be so enthralling about seeing a man that would do such a trick? I used to think the high altitude and the beautiful vision of his countenance would do it all up. I thought that such a setting was so non-counterfeitable that once we were at that thin air altitude and seeing his glowing face, all fear of counterfeits would vanish and we'd be unrestrained in our believing. We'd just pour on the believing and we'd zap ourselves real fast, all without slow teaching and free will sluggishness. Then I finally realized, in the sense of putting it together, that not only does the devil come as an angel of light, but he has to ability to abduct believers to a high altitude, Jesus for one. My reasonings were not in line with The Word.
In my new model, our teaching by the Master will be with total respect to the free will believing God originally put into His created man. The original plan of body, soul, spirit was VERY good, and there's no need to dump it at the Gathering. I see him teaching us how to speak in NEW tongues then. We'll be taught to operate all nine all the time, so when we speak, it will be perfect prophecy. We will know the "divine mysteries" as no longer secret, and will be able to speak them out WITH our understanding, because by then all of our understanding will be spiritual and will have surpassed natural understanding.
Until then, God has stepped in, and has gathered us together into a class to hear His Word like it has not been known since the first century. As we carry out Dr's final instructions to master the written material God supplied us with from that class, these things become more and more obvious. It's a simple matter of obedience to the God who gave these great revelations to Dr, who then gave them to us in book and magazine form.
I wonder if you were REALLY faking it. Was it totally repetitious, or was there fluency and variety in there? Is your impression of faking it a recent thing or did you think you were faking it back then?
You may have not done it in love and therefore didn?t see the benefits, but they could have been there anyway, just undetected.
I think SIT is so big that if you acted on it, it was REAL, even if your impression at the time was that it was fake.
There were times that I thought I was faking SIT interpretation or prophesy, yet was told that they hit home by some... at times.
Look at the crooked prophet Balaam who was TRYING to fake a prophecy against Israel for hire, yet he ended up bringing forth one of the most beautiful fore tellings of the coming of Jesus Christ!
You?d have to do a lot more convincing to me before I would believe that your SIT was fake. But then I?d have to believe you are faking your posts now as well. Maybe you should sign up for one of my excellors sessions.
"Until then, God has stepped in, and has gathered us together into a class to hear His Word like it has not been known since the first century. As we carry out Dr's final instructions to master the written material God supplied us with from that class, these things become more and more obvious. It's a simple matter of obedience to the God who gave these great revelations to Dr, who then gave them to us in book and magazine form."
Ok, I read a bit more, and saw something interesting.
Kinda like you said, Mike. I think.
Our understanding moves from manifestion to manifestion.
Inward, until we learn them all and we can play them like strings of a harp.
But tongues and interpretation are manifestions OUTSIDE.
They are the music of the harp strings.
But without those inner manifestations, the music is dead.
Sure, VPW could pluck the strings, but he could not even discern the spirits of Christ and of God from something "evil." And he spazzed out and distorted Paul's writings, which I doubt were even the meat of what Paul understood and taught. Not even to the Ephesians. IMO, none of the epistles reveal the mystery of Christ.
But maybe VP had glimpses of things, like a kid peeking through a hole.
Or hoping for a cookie from whom he thought was a taskmaster.
Which we learned from Jesus is fine, too. God doesn't waste. Men do.
And so that single talent is always given to another.
VP was the guy who was given one talent and buried it.
Maybe because he liked holes so much, I guess. :o-->
ummmm....not sure if I explained myself very well.
SGL: No, that's the Black Speech of Mordor. Cthulhu would be "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." Can I get a "Iä Iä" from the cultists?
What is cthulhu, Zix?
I knew you'd recognize the Black Speech, my fellow Tolkien geek!
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Mike said: "There were times that I thought I was faking SIT interpretation or prophesy, yet was told that they hit home by some... at times."
I have been thru the very same thing, except I was faking it. I took out a pen and a concordance and found some heavy stuff to say. I wanted to look cool. I wanted to fit in. I wanted my mother to think I was spiritual.
Thing is, I BELIEVED everything TWI told me. But the inspiration never came. I did what they said. I breathed. Yet nothing happened. I didn't want to seem less spiritual so I faked it. I knew I was faking it. It was a consius decision, made only after the "real thing" never happened.
The fact that you doubt this baffles me. And I'm not alone. Many others faked it too. The pressure to perform was enormous and I didn't want to seem spiritually impotent.
Trust me dawg, I faked it. And I did it well. I blessed hearts, hit home and blew minds.
If, in shark infested waters, it?s foolish to walk the handrail on the left side of a ferryboat, does that mean it?s wise to walk on the right side handrail?
Mike, what's the connection between your question and mine? I fail to see the relativity.
But to answer your question, it would be foolish to walk on either side, even if they were safe waters in the case of a non-swimmer.
Now that I answered your question answer mine. The question again is, if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears? And remember, show relativity between your question and mine.
But I think Georgio JesioweOweO wins the star on the refrigorator.
I think another Geo said it the best though...
quote: Think about it. Almighty God concocts a bizarre way of talking to Himself to tell Himself how great He is. This doesn't seem a little odd to you?
Similar but better than the way I put it which was that God tells your spirit, which tells your mind, what to say back to God. Tre Bizarre for sure.
Could we address some of these very valid questions?
Oak: Cthulhu came from H.P. Lovecraft, quite possibly the best American horror fiction writer. (according to Steven King, anyway) Cthulhu was basically a hundred-foot tall octopus-headed god of pure evil, although most of the other gods in Lovecraft's pantheon were pure evil as well. He lay sleeping in his palace beneath the seas until the Stars Were Right once more...
The novella "The Call of Cthulhu" has been reprinted in many of the Lovecraft anthologies, but is far from his best work. Look him up, you might like him.
Bumper sticker: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu--Why Settle For The LESSER Evil?
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
Your friend doesn't know what hospital they are going to......
Or what was the extent of their injuries....
He just said, "I was told it was bad".....
You don't know exactly where your parents are....
Or what kind of shape they are in.....
This happens a 1000 times a day in America.....
So you begin to pray, in English......
What do you pray, with clearness and concern?
What specific prayer do you pray?
Yeah, try praying for one or two hours in English.
Guareenteee ya, it will end up very repeatative.
Oh yeah, baby!!!!
Now it's time to tap into the supernatural, baby!!
Speaking in tongues makes intercession for the saints, according to the will of God, not our limited knowledge and understanding of a situation. For we, as mortal humans, know not (all the time) what we should pray for)
It edifies you spiritually, as you are going thru the stress and feeling of not knowing the whole score.
It even brings rest and energy to your very soul, as Romans 8:10-11 delcares, (quickens even your mortal body)
Speaking in tongues builds up our faith even further, so, if needed, we can minister miracles, gifts of healing.
I would say that, in times of great need, speaking in tongues, puts God right smack in the middle of the crisis and we difinitely have his full attention.....
Oh, by the way, for you doubting Thomass's, Gods rule: You believe first and than you see!!!
[This message was edited by Lightside on January 09, 2004 at 13:49.]
I admit that I faked SIT and prophecy for over 20 years, cuz I didn't want to be reproved for not doing it, and after a while I thought everyone else was faking it too.
Then I thought some were acutally doing it like my husband, he was not repetitive at all and his tongue was so beautiful it brought me to tears some times.
I never told anyone in that 20 years that I faked it. I finally told my hubby about 6 months ago.
Any way hubby was getting tapes from an ex-way person (off-shoot)?
And one day a couple of months ago I listened to one of his teachings about SIT and all of a sudden towards the end of the teaching I really started SIT for the first time in my life.
It was totally different from the one I faked and was/is very beautiful tongue.
When my hubby heard it he broke down and cryed and so did I.
I do it now on a regular basis. But I haven't yet done interpritation or prophecy yet, maybe someday I will, but I'm patient and will wait til that day comes.
So I know if I faked it for so long that alot of others did too.
And here's a hoot while in the family corps on corps night Loy called one me to Sit/interp. and when I was done he said that was beautiful. If he was so spiritual how come he didn't know I was a fake. LOLALOY
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... ]
You wrote: ?Mike, what's the connection between your question and mine? I fail to see the relativity.... Now that I answered your question answer mine. The question again is, if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears??
I had been describing the proper balance between skepticism and gullibility. Let?s give this balance a temporary name: ?wise believing?
If, in shark infested waters, it?s foolish to walk the handrail on the left side of a ferryboat, does that mean it?s wise to walk on the right side handrail?
No, of course not. The reversal from the right side to the left side of the ship does not automatically mean a reversal from danger to safety. (Reminds me of the mirror riddle.)
So you answered me correctly with ?it would be foolish to walk on either side.?
Your question = ?if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears??
My answer = I call them a fool, just like the other fool, for avoiding ?wise believing,? which is the safe balance between believing NOTHING he hears and believing ALL that he hears.
You wrote: ?I have been thru the very same thing, except I was faking it. I took out a pen and a concordance and found some heavy stuff to say. I wanted to look cool. I wanted to fit in. I wanted my mother to think I was spiritual.?
You don?t think God could guide you in your concordance search?
It sounds like you must have done this a lot, or your Interpretation would be very repetitive, and a smart person like you would know that total repetition would not impress your mother. So, you must have eventually gotten a storehouse of ideas from this process built up inside your head, and all flowing in harmony with the Word and not at cross purposes.
On one day you may have decided at the last second to do a previously prepared message, instead of the most recent preparation. Or you may have altered your prep at the last second slightly. Or added in some other stuff that you may have heard someone else utter long before that stuck. Or a recently remembered Bible verse or phrase.
On THOSE occasions, if you had even the slightest inclination to bless or help others in love, such a last second decision could have been INSPIRATION! On those occasions you may have uttered, like the crooked prophet Balaam?s beautiful prophecy, some perfect messages from God.
In other words, your mental faking it may have been mixed with genuine inspired utterances. That?s all we, more sincere, operators of TIP were ever able to do. We ALL had LOTS of repetition, and LOTS of prepared crutch phrases mixed in with our messages from or for God.
I?ve talked to MANY people with your same objections in my excellors sessions. They were discouraged and downcast about their TIP and God inspired me to help show them that they could grow and EXCEL in this endeavor because God wanted to help very much and that He was very patient with our attempts, flawed and mixed with 5-senses stuff as they were.
It was available for us all to have perfectly spiritual messages, but very few mastered this.
So far you are not convincing me very well. Do you remember Dr teaching on Balaam in the Advanced Class?
****
You wrote: ?Thing is, I BELIEVED everything TWI told me. But the inspiration never came. I did what they said. I breathed. Yet nothing happened. I didn't want to seem less spiritual so I faked it. I knew I was faking it. It was a consius decision, made only after the "real thing" never happened.?
In my excellors sessions I almost ALWAYS heard these things like ?it feels like fakery? or ?nothing happened.?
This impression that God was going to MAKE something happen is wrong, but it was also pretty common. It is WE who must do something. You DID do something, and God was there to supply the inspiration, but you just didn?t recognize it as inspiration.
Inspiration is ?in spirit action? and NOT Stereophonic Hi-Fi voices. The revelation manifestations can at times be in stereo, but not the worship manifestations. Many, many people did not really hear Dr when he taught us what I?m repeating here. With TIP people often were expecting God to make it all happen, but that?s not what we were taught.
This happened in SIT also, where even after all the instruction in the class that THEY had to move their lips, throat and tongue, some people still were expecting that God was going to initiate the action.
****
You wrote: ?The fact that you doubt this baffles me.?
You SHOULD be baffled!
This is because you were not fully instructed, or you weren?t paying attention, or you leadership were out to lunch (often the case by the 80?s), AND you didn?t diligently and persistently seek further, better instruction on these things like I did. I drove myself to deal with the faking aspect or the illusion of faking. You should be baffled. Come back to PFAL and get it straight.
****
You wrote: ?And I'm not alone. Many others faked it too. The pressure to perform was enormous and I didn't want to seem spiritually impotent. _ Trust me dawg, I faked it. And I did it well. I blessed hearts, hit home and blew minds.?
Sorry, I do NOT trust you to have a good handle on what you were doing. There were two things going on back then in TIP, natural actions and spiritual actions, and you couldn?t feel, see, hear, taste, or touch the spiritual part, so you concluded it wasn?t there.
This conclusion as you hold it in the present, I assume, is largely rooted in the past 18 years of thinking. The last 18 years have been bedlam for grads, since by 1985 ALL top leadership were out of fellowship, having repeatedly rejected Dr?s repeated overtures for them to master the PFAL written materials. I just found a tape last month from the mid 70?s where Dr is exhorting the 4th or 5th Corps to get it together in this department of mastery.
So, even though you have lots of company in these feelings, I think you?re all incorrect in your assessments of the degree of your fakery. The statement that you ?did it well? lines up with this. I think it was God that boosted you over the hump AT TIMES, out of the mediocre and into the doing it well.
Your objections were common back then, and I?m VERY familiar with them and their solutions.
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No Way
haha i never s.i.t. before, that's what it sounds like when i hear others do it.
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Oakspear
ash nazg durbatuluk ash nazg gimbatul ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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CKnapp3
Mike, If a fool is one who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears?
Chuck
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sirguessalot
Boo!
Never know whose sitting around in the dark wit ya.
Sounds like Ctulu, Oak. Or something-ulde.
...
I love this subject. Tongues.
(mwah, Ex)
Angels and men have spoke in tongues since before Babylon.
Like how flames taste the air, tongues of angels taste spiritual fruit.
And its no figure of speech.
Its getting clearer and clearer to me that all VP ever taught was tongues of men. Like music without meaning...semi-wonderful, but meaningless. Purposeless. Like a cloud without water. or a seed that was afraid to die.
And all the hype over Pentecost is over-simplified, like a kid with a porno mag thinkin heez in complete control (Like most of modern pseudo-rational Christianity and industrial science, I suppose).
But watch out! I heard it makes you go blind.
Todd
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Zixar
SGL: No, that's the Black Speech of Mordor. Cthulhu would be "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn." Can I get a "Iä Iä" from the cultists?
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
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Mike
CKnapp3,
If, in shark infested waters, it?s foolish to walk the handrail on the left side of a ferryboat, does that mean it?s wise to walk on the right side handrail?
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Mike
Sirguessalot,
You wrote: ?Its getting clearer and clearer to me that all VP ever taught was tongues of men. Like music without meaning...semi-wonderful, but meaningless. Purposeless. Like a cloud without water. or a seed that was afraid to die.?
Sounds like ?understanding is unfruitful? ? In the soul or mind, SIT was useless. It benefited an area we can?t grasp with our senses, the spirit.
The Corinthians were carnal, but they had something good in SIT. Same with us.
But Jesus talked about NEW tongues also. Whether that?s tongues of angels or not, I don?t know.
I do know that Paul was able to do better than the Corinthians in the SIT department.
As we were taught, SIT is only ?in part? or imperfect in a way. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. I like the idea of the cessation of tongues and the coming of the greater.
*******
Most of us have held a mental model in our minds regarding the Appearing Administration that I think needs some upgrading. This particular point I have seen regards the speed with which the prophesied events take place in it. I have caught myself and many others thinking that the "atom of time" refers to many, if not all, of our experiences in seeing him as he is at that time.
From what I see in I Cor.15, the atom of time comes at the end of the end, very late in the administration, at the last trumpet. It is our new body that takes no time for us to receive. This is NOT the way things usually happen, and that's why this one exception to slow growth (God's preferred method), this new body reception, is documented as happening very quickly.
We were taught that it takes time for a mind to change. We saw how long it took Peter to change his mind regarding the new administration he was in. Dr teaches in RHST about the slowness of minds to change. It takes only an atom of time to give us to the new body, but how long does it take God to TEACH us the perfectly renewed mind?
We already have the perfect spirit, and that perfectly renewed mind is next on the list. THEN, after we all are synchronized on thinking the same things, we can all then, with our total community believing, receive that new body very quickly. But for each one of us to get to that new mind takes time.
I have wondered about when tongues will cease. I now expect that it will be a voluntary thing, and that will depend on believing. Maybe not everyone will cease tongues at the same time, but each believer will wait until he sees that which is perfect which has come. Even upon seeing that, it STILL takes time to recognize it as "that which is perfect" deep down, especially deep enough to feel it's really time to cease something as cherished as tongues. That which is perfect will have to be well proved before a diligent PFAL grad would relinquish SIT.
I no longer believe that we will be zapped with the perfectly renewed mind. I do believe it's God's responsibility to make perfect teaching available for it along with the perfect teacher, His Son. I used to think that some kind of Godly possession would take place at the Gathering when we see Jesus, and we'd get zapped instantly with that new mind. No more do I think that way. I now call that way of thinking the "Rap-Zap" model. The "Rap" is for "rapture."
In this Rap-Zap model, what could be so enthralling about seeing a man that would do such a trick? I used to think the high altitude and the beautiful vision of his countenance would do it all up. I thought that such a setting was so non-counterfeitable that once we were at that thin air altitude and seeing his glowing face, all fear of counterfeits would vanish and we'd be unrestrained in our believing. We'd just pour on the believing and we'd zap ourselves real fast, all without slow teaching and free will sluggishness. Then I finally realized, in the sense of putting it together, that not only does the devil come as an angel of light, but he has to ability to abduct believers to a high altitude, Jesus for one. My reasonings were not in line with The Word.
In my new model, our teaching by the Master will be with total respect to the free will believing God originally put into His created man. The original plan of body, soul, spirit was VERY good, and there's no need to dump it at the Gathering. I see him teaching us how to speak in NEW tongues then. We'll be taught to operate all nine all the time, so when we speak, it will be perfect prophecy. We will know the "divine mysteries" as no longer secret, and will be able to speak them out WITH our understanding, because by then all of our understanding will be spiritual and will have surpassed natural understanding.
Until then, God has stepped in, and has gathered us together into a class to hear His Word like it has not been known since the first century. As we carry out Dr's final instructions to master the written material God supplied us with from that class, these things become more and more obvious. It's a simple matter of obedience to the God who gave these great revelations to Dr, who then gave them to us in book and magazine form.
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Georgio Jessio
good points Mike, except I was faking it.
Glow-ry!
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sirguessalot
LOL! Zix
:P-->
Too cool.
I was guessin.
:D-->
I'd like to see a directory of literary languages someday.
Wonder how that language tree looks on paper.
Hey Mike! Howzit goin?
Not sure what to say to all that anymore.
The more you "widdle it down to the truth"
the more branchless it becomes.
Good to see you've had a few epiphanies, though.
=^..^= meow!
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Mike
Georgio Jessio,
I wonder if you were REALLY faking it. Was it totally repetitious, or was there fluency and variety in there? Is your impression of faking it a recent thing or did you think you were faking it back then?
You may have not done it in love and therefore didn?t see the benefits, but they could have been there anyway, just undetected.
I think SIT is so big that if you acted on it, it was REAL, even if your impression at the time was that it was fake.
There were times that I thought I was faking SIT interpretation or prophesy, yet was told that they hit home by some... at times.
Look at the crooked prophet Balaam who was TRYING to fake a prophecy against Israel for hire, yet he ended up bringing forth one of the most beautiful fore tellings of the coming of Jesus Christ!
You?d have to do a lot more convincing to me before I would believe that your SIT was fake. But then I?d have to believe you are faking your posts now as well. Maybe you should sign up for one of my excellors sessions.
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Cherished Child
"Until then, God has stepped in, and has gathered us together into a class to hear His Word like it has not been known since the first century. As we carry out Dr's final instructions to master the written material God supplied us with from that class, these things become more and more obvious. It's a simple matter of obedience to the God who gave these great revelations to Dr, who then gave them to us in book and magazine form."
Good God, I think I'm gonna hurl!
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Mike
Why?
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sirguessalot
Ok, I read a bit more, and saw something interesting.
Kinda like you said, Mike. I think.
Our understanding moves from manifestion to manifestion.
Inward, until we learn them all and we can play them like strings of a harp.
But tongues and interpretation are manifestions OUTSIDE.
They are the music of the harp strings.
But without those inner manifestations, the music is dead.
Sure, VPW could pluck the strings, but he could not even discern the spirits of Christ and of God from something "evil." And he spazzed out and distorted Paul's writings, which I doubt were even the meat of what Paul understood and taught. Not even to the Ephesians. IMO, none of the epistles reveal the mystery of Christ.
But maybe VP had glimpses of things, like a kid peeking through a hole.
Or hoping for a cookie from whom he thought was a taskmaster.
Which we learned from Jesus is fine, too. God doesn't waste. Men do.
And so that single talent is always given to another.
VP was the guy who was given one talent and buried it.
Maybe because he liked holes so much, I guess.
:o-->
ummmm....not sure if I explained myself very well.
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Oakspear
I knew you'd recognize the Black Speech, my fellow Tolkien geek!
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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sirguessalot
Strange Eons and such.
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Georgio Jessio
Mike said: "There were times that I thought I was faking SIT interpretation or prophesy, yet was told that they hit home by some... at times."
I have been thru the very same thing, except I was faking it. I took out a pen and a concordance and found some heavy stuff to say. I wanted to look cool. I wanted to fit in. I wanted my mother to think I was spiritual.
Thing is, I BELIEVED everything TWI told me. But the inspiration never came. I did what they said. I breathed. Yet nothing happened. I didn't want to seem less spiritual so I faked it. I knew I was faking it. It was a consius decision, made only after the "real thing" never happened.
The fact that you doubt this baffles me. And I'm not alone. Many others faked it too. The pressure to perform was enormous and I didn't want to seem spiritually impotent.
Trust me dawg, I faked it. And I did it well. I blessed hearts, hit home and blew minds.
Glow-ry!
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oldiesman
Since there's nothing in the bible that says SIT can't be faked, I would opine that some folks could probably fake it.
But why fake it when the genuine article is available?
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CKnapp3
Mike, what's the connection between your question and mine? I fail to see the relativity.
But to answer your question, it would be foolish to walk on either side, even if they were safe waters in the case of a non-swimmer.
Now that I answered your question answer mine. The question again is, if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears? And remember, show relativity between your question and mine.
Chuck
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lindyhopper
Damn you guys are funny.
But I think Georgio JesioweOweO wins the star on the refrigorator.
I think another Geo said it the best though...
Similar but better than the way I put it which was that God tells your spirit, which tells your mind, what to say back to God. Tre Bizarre for sure.
Could we address some of these very valid questions?
Mike isn't this a forum for EX-Way folk?
Who's your daddy?
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Zixar
Oak: Cthulhu came from H.P. Lovecraft, quite possibly the best American horror fiction writer. (according to Steven King, anyway) Cthulhu was basically a hundred-foot tall octopus-headed god of pure evil, although most of the other gods in Lovecraft's pantheon were pure evil as well. He lay sleeping in his palace beneath the seas until the Stars Were Right once more...
The novella "The Call of Cthulhu" has been reprinted in many of the Lovecraft anthologies, but is far from his best work. Look him up, you might like him.
Bumper sticker: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu--Why Settle For The LESSER Evil?
The Secret Signature of the Day has been cancelled by the HTML Police.
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Lightside
Here is a good example:
A friend calls you at 1:35 in the morning....
Saying that they just got a call from a friend...
Saying that your mother and father, traveling in
their car, two thousand miles from home.....
Just got into a terrible car accident.....
Your friend doesn't know what hospital they are going to......
Or what was the extent of their injuries....
He just said, "I was told it was bad".....
You don't know exactly where your parents are....
Or what kind of shape they are in.....
This happens a 1000 times a day in America.....
So you begin to pray, in English......
What do you pray, with clearness and concern?
What specific prayer do you pray?
Yeah, try praying for one or two hours in English.
Guareenteee ya, it will end up very repeatative.
Oh yeah, baby!!!!
Now it's time to tap into the supernatural, baby!!
Speaking in tongues makes intercession for the saints, according to the will of God, not our limited knowledge and understanding of a situation. For we, as mortal humans, know not (all the time) what we should pray for)
It edifies you spiritually, as you are going thru the stress and feeling of not knowing the whole score.
It even brings rest and energy to your very soul, as Romans 8:10-11 delcares, (quickens even your mortal body)
Speaking in tongues builds up our faith even further, so, if needed, we can minister miracles, gifts of healing.
I would say that, in times of great need, speaking in tongues, puts God right smack in the middle of the crisis and we difinitely have his full attention.....
Oh, by the way, for you doubting Thomass's, Gods rule: You believe first and than you see!!!
[This message was edited by Lightside on January 09, 2004 at 13:49.]
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wyteduv58
I admit that I faked SIT and prophecy for over 20 years, cuz I didn't want to be reproved for not doing it, and after a while I thought everyone else was faking it too.
Then I thought some were acutally doing it like my husband, he was not repetitive at all and his tongue was so beautiful it brought me to tears some times.
I never told anyone in that 20 years that I faked it. I finally told my hubby about 6 months ago.
Any way hubby was getting tapes from an ex-way person (off-shoot)?
And one day a couple of months ago I listened to one of his teachings about SIT and all of a sudden towards the end of the teaching I really started SIT for the first time in my life.
It was totally different from the one I faked and was/is very beautiful tongue.
When my hubby heard it he broke down and cryed and so did I.
I do it now on a regular basis. But I haven't yet done interpritation or prophecy yet, maybe someday I will, but I'm patient and will wait til that day comes.
So I know if I faked it for so long that alot of others did too.
And here's a hoot while in the family corps on corps night Loy called one me to Sit/interp. and when I was done he said that was beautiful. If he was so spiritual how come he didn't know I was a fake. LOLALOY
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... ]
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Mike
CKnapp3,
You wrote: ?Mike, what's the connection between your question and mine? I fail to see the relativity.... Now that I answered your question answer mine. The question again is, if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears??
I had been describing the proper balance between skepticism and gullibility. Let?s give this balance a temporary name: ?wise believing?
If, in shark infested waters, it?s foolish to walk the handrail on the left side of a ferryboat, does that mean it?s wise to walk on the right side handrail?
No, of course not. The reversal from the right side to the left side of the ship does not automatically mean a reversal from danger to safety. (Reminds me of the mirror riddle.)
So you answered me correctly with ?it would be foolish to walk on either side.?
Here is the analogy:
....left rail.... = .....skepticism..... = ...danger
...right rail... = .......gullibility...... = ...danger
......ship...... = ...wise believing... = ...safety
Your question = ?if a fool is someone who believes everything he hears, what do you call someone who believes NOTHING he hears??
My answer = I call them a fool, just like the other fool, for avoiding ?wise believing,? which is the safe balance between believing NOTHING he hears and believing ALL that he hears.
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Mike
Georgio Jessio,
You wrote: ?I have been thru the very same thing, except I was faking it. I took out a pen and a concordance and found some heavy stuff to say. I wanted to look cool. I wanted to fit in. I wanted my mother to think I was spiritual.?
You don?t think God could guide you in your concordance search?
It sounds like you must have done this a lot, or your Interpretation would be very repetitive, and a smart person like you would know that total repetition would not impress your mother. So, you must have eventually gotten a storehouse of ideas from this process built up inside your head, and all flowing in harmony with the Word and not at cross purposes.
On one day you may have decided at the last second to do a previously prepared message, instead of the most recent preparation. Or you may have altered your prep at the last second slightly. Or added in some other stuff that you may have heard someone else utter long before that stuck. Or a recently remembered Bible verse or phrase.
On THOSE occasions, if you had even the slightest inclination to bless or help others in love, such a last second decision could have been INSPIRATION! On those occasions you may have uttered, like the crooked prophet Balaam?s beautiful prophecy, some perfect messages from God.
In other words, your mental faking it may have been mixed with genuine inspired utterances. That?s all we, more sincere, operators of TIP were ever able to do. We ALL had LOTS of repetition, and LOTS of prepared crutch phrases mixed in with our messages from or for God.
I?ve talked to MANY people with your same objections in my excellors sessions. They were discouraged and downcast about their TIP and God inspired me to help show them that they could grow and EXCEL in this endeavor because God wanted to help very much and that He was very patient with our attempts, flawed and mixed with 5-senses stuff as they were.
It was available for us all to have perfectly spiritual messages, but very few mastered this.
So far you are not convincing me very well. Do you remember Dr teaching on Balaam in the Advanced Class?
****
You wrote: ?Thing is, I BELIEVED everything TWI told me. But the inspiration never came. I did what they said. I breathed. Yet nothing happened. I didn't want to seem less spiritual so I faked it. I knew I was faking it. It was a consius decision, made only after the "real thing" never happened.?
In my excellors sessions I almost ALWAYS heard these things like ?it feels like fakery? or ?nothing happened.?
This impression that God was going to MAKE something happen is wrong, but it was also pretty common. It is WE who must do something. You DID do something, and God was there to supply the inspiration, but you just didn?t recognize it as inspiration.
Inspiration is ?in spirit action? and NOT Stereophonic Hi-Fi voices. The revelation manifestations can at times be in stereo, but not the worship manifestations. Many, many people did not really hear Dr when he taught us what I?m repeating here. With TIP people often were expecting God to make it all happen, but that?s not what we were taught.
This happened in SIT also, where even after all the instruction in the class that THEY had to move their lips, throat and tongue, some people still were expecting that God was going to initiate the action.
****
You wrote: ?The fact that you doubt this baffles me.?
You SHOULD be baffled!
This is because you were not fully instructed, or you weren?t paying attention, or you leadership were out to lunch (often the case by the 80?s), AND you didn?t diligently and persistently seek further, better instruction on these things like I did. I drove myself to deal with the faking aspect or the illusion of faking. You should be baffled. Come back to PFAL and get it straight.
****
You wrote: ?And I'm not alone. Many others faked it too. The pressure to perform was enormous and I didn't want to seem spiritually impotent. _ Trust me dawg, I faked it. And I did it well. I blessed hearts, hit home and blew minds.?
Sorry, I do NOT trust you to have a good handle on what you were doing. There were two things going on back then in TIP, natural actions and spiritual actions, and you couldn?t feel, see, hear, taste, or touch the spiritual part, so you concluded it wasn?t there.
This conclusion as you hold it in the present, I assume, is largely rooted in the past 18 years of thinking. The last 18 years have been bedlam for grads, since by 1985 ALL top leadership were out of fellowship, having repeatedly rejected Dr?s repeated overtures for them to master the PFAL written materials. I just found a tape last month from the mid 70?s where Dr is exhorting the 4th or 5th Corps to get it together in this department of mastery.
So, even though you have lots of company in these feelings, I think you?re all incorrect in your assessments of the degree of your fakery. The statement that you ?did it well? lines up with this. I think it was God that boosted you over the hump AT TIMES, out of the mediocre and into the doing it well.
Your objections were common back then, and I?m VERY familiar with them and their solutions.
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