Unfortunately, I assisted....The LC conducted the initial meeting at my house. I was the TC wife. Of all the ones I had to participate in, this one sticks out in my mind as the most rediculous. Horribly unjust. Petty.
Then the day came when my husband was accused of being homo. I got the boot too because well, if I'd been a proper wife he wouldn't have been homo. Darn, I just couldn't come with anything to say in my monthly letters to prove I was OK again. Then I discovered Way Dale and decided I didn't want to go back. As traumatic as it was, it was also the best thing.
How was the guys hair style? I had to get on a person in my hf because of that once.
I got reproved for having a small hole in my sock once does that count.
And what's wrong with old shoes, do I have to get rid of those?
I always got a kick out of the twit slogans they came up with like the "the promised land of the prevailing wind "(I mean Word).
I had to be in some of those meetings, they would have done it whether or not we were there. I wouldn't condemn yourself those evil b******s will pay for that one day.
It's really kinda comical in a way(sorry, it just is)
I'm thinking back to the '70's when people wore hand-me-downs that had been handed down(Twice)
We did some of that in Fellowlaborers but probably not nearly as much as The Corps, from what I've heard.
Every now and then we had something that was like a yard/garage/tag sale except that everything was free. We had to dress up for certain functions. To an outsider looking in, we would have looked like circus clowns. I think it might have generated more suspicion to see one of our brothers or sisters sporting something that was currently en-vogue.
So sad, my husband would of been kicked out just for wearing old flannel shirts (with the elbows worn out) but rolled up. If someone had made it a big deal. What is more cozy than flannel. Hmmm. never had to experience this at all, that I recall, and we were TC's up til "91". Sorry for you travail but it is so much better being OUT. Now we can make whatever fashion statement we want. FREEDOM.
We had a similar situation in my area. The poor guy had been put on probation for something to do with debt & gambling, but when he came back 6 months later, every aspect of his life was examined, and one of them was his shoes. He was kind of "dorky", high water pants with the belt way above the waist, old fashioned shirts and wing-tipped shoes. He was picked on for using "thee" and "thou" in his prayers.
He ended up getting the boot because he was pressured to buy new clothes. One of the women in the branch was assigned to go with him, to help him pick out something stylish. But he had no money, so he put it on his credit card. This was a no-no, since he was not supposed to take on any additional debt. So he was between a rock and a hard place. He bought the cothes, the woman ratted him out and he was m&a'd.
He shops in my store and always makes a point of wishing me a happy birthday (his is the day before mine) every year.
Yeah, I remember that teaching on "old cow skins."
Actually, I was taught/told that I should always be presentable while in my own home, just in case someone decided to drop by unannounced. Didn't remember that one until I read this. I guess they were fashion police. They were a little obsessive over their dress code protical. I wonder who came up with those FABULOUS ideas. Ssssssseriously! I hear that casually nice is the new black!
This is just totally nuts. I thought it was bad that they had the war on debt, the homo purge, the unproductive evil purge, then coming into your house and looking in your drawers for "objects of evil"...all that was bad enough, but SHOES??? I can still remember Howard Allen bragging about how he made a refridgerator last 30 yrs..."Appliances are like spouses; if you take better care of them, they last longer!" Shoes?
I once was made and example during a foundational class because my socks didn't match my pants. (I didn't know any better) To this day I'm still concerned with matching my socks to my pants.
This 'shoe' scene is beyond ridiculous…just BIZARRE that people allowed others to act on them like this. (analyzing with reason & report to the extreme)
But what I’m finding even more peculiar is the fact that your husband was accused of being a Homo!?!
Being around during the great Homo purge, I’d only ‘heard’ bits here and there. Of course, QUESTIONS were highly DISCOURAGED ;) , and one knew to ‘keep their mind & mouth’ from going in such a direction…
Maybe it’s the big stick here in my hand… but I’m longing to ‘stir’ a little…some of my questions sunk to the bottom of this big kettle…
What was it that made way leaders think someone was Homosexual? Something they observed, like the guy from fellowship in the back seat of a parked car with his male lover, going at it? A man being sweet? His clothing? Tone of voice? Color choices? (and, why mainly men? Don’t recall women being accused.. maybe some where?)
Could it be the revelation these leaders thought they were getting, was merely their own curiosity about such erotic acts with those men? And, it’s interesting that LCM & others got off with two women… the women doing erotic, sexual favors to each other in front of them… isn’t that homosexual?
Yes, I know what the bible says in Romans, but I also know our western ways are very closed, even w/ heterosexual relationships~
I once was made and example during a foundational class because my socks didn't match my pants. (I didn't know any better) To this day I'm still concerned with matching my socks to my pants.
This entire thread made me think of a "memo" that was circulated through our limb just about 10 years ago. Since I was the one who typed it up for the LC, I checked through my Oooooooold data diskettes to see if I still had it somewhere, and I do. I am adding the pertinent text here:
"God Bless you abundantly!
In order to make our household functions a blessing to all, we want to share these guidelines for appropriate dress at ministry events. Please contact your fellowship coordinator if you have any questions or needs.
Yours in Christ,
(LC Name)
Limb Functions - Best Dress
Men: Dark suit, blue or black. Holy Spirit Pin on right lapel. Dark or red tie, muted patterns. Dark shoes, to match suit.
Ladies: Dress or suit. Two piece sets are less formal.
Branch Functions
Men: Light suits, jacket and slacks, and tie. Dark shoes.
Ladies: Dresses or skirts and tops. Arms should not be bare.
Casually nice: No jeans, no ripped clothing, no shorts, no tennis shoes. Pressed jeans and all clothing given attention to wear and stains.
Household fellowship: No blue jeans, no sneakers or tennis shoes, no t-shirts with slogans.
__________________
Now, according to my own final naming system, this was just an initial rough draft. I recall the final was circulated and I think I didn't bother saving it.
Interestingly enough, two weeks after this was floated through the limb, a branch function was held in the H*mb**ck's home. The BC and his entire family showed up in matching track suits and brand new trainers. The rest of us were demurely attired in clothing suitable as described above.
I asked the BC's wife about it afterwards. She said, "Well, these are appropriate, and they a brand new."
"True," I replied. "They are new. And they're still track suits. I think the rest of us would have loved to be here on a lovely summer day in similar attire."
*sigh*
We were M&A'd a few weeks later. It was the best six months of my life in twi, and coincidentally, the best six months of our marriage. Things went south again after we were "welcomed back to the household".
((((to all))) who were ever made to feel little, or small, or socially inept.
It occurred to me the other day...can't you just see some pharisee ....ed that Jesus didn't have the right shoes? or anything else for that matter....how horribly religious they are.
Sounds like Hitler and his "super race of people" he wanted so badly, he wanted total control over the invidual and if you didn't measure up or conform to his ways you were toast!!
quote: What was it that made way leaders think someone was Homosexual? Something they observed, like the guy from fellowship in the back seat of a parked car with his male lover, going at it? A man being sweet? His clothing? Tone of voice? Color choices? (and, why mainly men? Don’t recall women being accused.. maybe some where?)
It was the whims of their evil thinking. LCM set the tone for that. In 1990 at corps week he said someone had a certain devil spirit "because only a 5 star general would DARE say such and such in front of the entire way corps". Nothing about God, by His revealing it to you. So if Moe (LCM) can make pronouncements like that, then Larry and Curly (butt kisser leaders who carried out those purges) could walk by their flesh and call it "reasonable spiritual suspicion".
I remember those days of close scrutinization (if that is even a word).. And I remember, very embarrisingly, working with a couple to clean their house up or be m&a'd because they had one to many things in their garage and a spare bedroom.. I felt so bad going to their house and critiquing how it looked because the BC said it was a mess.. I really didn't think it was all that bad, but maybe I just wasn't "spiritual" enough to realize it!
Just sad.. And thankful that our Father accepts us even when we've gone and lived with the pigs, only to return home and have Him clothe us with such fine things..
We would have been M&A'd in seconds. Our Twig (Not HF, Twig), was full of young people. We'd have fellowship, dressed in our volleyball uniforms, then go play in the league we all belonged to. Then go have a beer afterwards.
I was marked, but not avoided, by VPW himself once, because of clothing. It seems now to be only a preview of what TWI 2 had in store for folks.
When I was on staff, I was in the Word Over The World Auditorium Choir. In addition to spending part of every Sunday getting my hair done up like a Lawrence Welk singer on acid, and putting on a live-to-tape television program, we spent one or two evenings each week in rehearsal. During one of these rehearsals, when the auditorium was still smelling of brand-new carpet and paint, VPW came to sit in the middle of the auditorium and watch our rehearsal. He was making comments, and generally giving advice; he had a microphone. I was wearing a new pair of nice purple pants; they were not a bright purple; they were more of a plum color. I was standing on the back row of women, because I'm tall.
The women in front of me must have shifted, or something, because all of a sudden, over the loud speakers, comes VPW's gravelly voice: "You. In the back. Purple pants." I was stunned that he had singled me out. So was everybody else; you could have heard a pin drop. The women in front of me shifted a little more, so that he could see me clearly. They were very courteous.
"Yes, sir?" I replied.
"Are those new pants?" he asked.
"Yes, sir."
"Those are the ugliest pants I've ever seen in my life."
Talk about total silence. I turned, I'm sure, three kinds of red.
Then, he went back to business, as though he hadn't just done something unutterably rude. We all went back to rehearsing.
I just wanted to die.
Did I answer that he was rude? Uncaring? Or use more colorful language than my pants?
No, of course not. He was the man of God. There must be something devilish about my pants.
Know what? Nobody else said one word about it, either. Not one person said, "that was really mean of him." Nobody mentioned it at all. It was as though everybody pretended it had never happened.
He was a mean, crotchety old man who ran roughshod over people, hated women, and enjoyed the superiority that he felt when he made other people uncomfortable.
I never wore those new pants again.
OF COURSE people in TWI confront one another over wearing old shoes. Look at their example!
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nandon
damn, that sucks.
was this person you? or did you assist in the confrontation?
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another spot
Unfortunately, I assisted....The LC conducted the initial meeting at my house. I was the TC wife. Of all the ones I had to participate in, this one sticks out in my mind as the most rediculous. Horribly unjust. Petty.
Then the day came when my husband was accused of being homo. I got the boot too because well, if I'd been a proper wife he wouldn't have been homo. Darn, I just couldn't come with anything to say in my monthly letters to prove I was OK again. Then I discovered Way Dale and decided I didn't want to go back. As traumatic as it was, it was also the best thing.
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washingtonweather
Talk about a lame excuse---These people are lookin for lint in a navel -- Belle where are you -- you have all the expressions.
That is so stupid and arrogant. But they will get what they give...I know there is a day of reckoning and I wouldn't want to be any of them.
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polar bear
How was the guys hair style? I had to get on a person in my hf because of that once.
I got reproved for having a small hole in my sock once does that count.
And what's wrong with old shoes, do I have to get rid of those?
I always got a kick out of the twit slogans they came up with like the "the promised land of the prevailing wind "(I mean Word).
I had to be in some of those meetings, they would have done it whether or not we were there. I wouldn't condemn yourself those evil b******s will pay for that one day.
Bless your heart, you got out.
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outandabout
M&A'd because of SHOES?????????
You'd think I'd stopped being shocked but.............dang if that one just takes the cake!!
(until the next thing I hear that I can't get over)
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Ham
Hmm. Maybe they started seeing debils under shoelaces.
Saw them everywhere else..
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waysider
It's really kinda comical in a way(sorry, it just is)
I'm thinking back to the '70's when people wore hand-me-downs that had been handed down(Twice)
We did some of that in Fellowlaborers but probably not nearly as much as The Corps, from what I've heard.
Every now and then we had something that was like a yard/garage/tag sale except that everything was free. We had to dress up for certain functions. To an outsider looking in, we would have looked like circus clowns. I think it might have generated more suspicion to see one of our brothers or sisters sporting something that was currently en-vogue.
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excathedra
acts 5th avenue
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waysider
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Ca_dreaming
So sad, my husband would of been kicked out just for wearing old flannel shirts (with the elbows worn out) but rolled up. If someone had made it a big deal. What is more cozy than flannel. Hmmm. never had to experience this at all, that I recall, and we were TC's up til "91". Sorry for you travail but it is so much better being OUT. Now we can make whatever fashion statement we want. FREEDOM.
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Oakspear
We had a similar situation in my area. The poor guy had been put on probation for something to do with debt & gambling, but when he came back 6 months later, every aspect of his life was examined, and one of them was his shoes. He was kind of "dorky", high water pants with the belt way above the waist, old fashioned shirts and wing-tipped shoes. He was picked on for using "thee" and "thou" in his prayers.
He ended up getting the boot because he was pressured to buy new clothes. One of the women in the branch was assigned to go with him, to help him pick out something stylish. But he had no money, so he put it on his credit card. This was a no-no, since he was not supposed to take on any additional debt. So he was between a rock and a hard place. He bought the cothes, the woman ratted him out and he was m&a'd.
He shops in my store and always makes a point of wishing me a happy birthday (his is the day before mine) every year.
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lindyhopper
Yeah, I remember that teaching on "old cow skins."
Actually, I was taught/told that I should always be presentable while in my own home, just in case someone decided to drop by unannounced. Didn't remember that one until I read this. I guess they were fashion police. They were a little obsessive over their dress code protical. I wonder who came up with those FABULOUS ideas. Ssssssseriously! I hear that casually nice is the new black!
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socks
They just wished more than anything that his life would prosper and grow.
Even as his soles prospered.
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johniam
This is just totally nuts. I thought it was bad that they had the war on debt, the homo purge, the unproductive evil purge, then coming into your house and looking in your drawers for "objects of evil"...all that was bad enough, but SHOES??? I can still remember Howard Allen bragging about how he made a refridgerator last 30 yrs..."Appliances are like spouses; if you take better care of them, they last longer!" Shoes?
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Bolshevik
I once was made and example during a foundational class because my socks didn't match my pants. (I didn't know any better) To this day I'm still concerned with matching my socks to my pants.
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SafariVista
Hello Ms A Spot :)
This 'shoe' scene is beyond ridiculous…just BIZARRE that people allowed others to act on them like this. (analyzing with reason & report to the extreme)
But what I’m finding even more peculiar is the fact that your husband was accused of being a Homo!?!
Being around during the great Homo purge, I’d only ‘heard’ bits here and there. Of course, QUESTIONS were highly DISCOURAGED ;) , and one knew to ‘keep their mind & mouth’ from going in such a direction…
Maybe it’s the big stick here in my hand… but I’m longing to ‘stir’ a little…some of my questions sunk to the bottom of this big kettle…
What was it that made way leaders think someone was Homosexual? Something they observed, like the guy from fellowship in the back seat of a parked car with his male lover, going at it? A man being sweet? His clothing? Tone of voice? Color choices? (and, why mainly men? Don’t recall women being accused.. maybe some where?)
Could it be the revelation these leaders thought they were getting, was merely their own curiosity about such erotic acts with those men? And, it’s interesting that LCM & others got off with two women… the women doing erotic, sexual favors to each other in front of them… isn’t that homosexual?
Yes, I know what the bible says in Romans, but I also know our western ways are very closed, even w/ heterosexual relationships~
So many lives ruined… because?
Curious~
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QuietThinker
This entire thread made me think of a "memo" that was circulated through our limb just about 10 years ago. Since I was the one who typed it up for the LC, I checked through my Oooooooold data diskettes to see if I still had it somewhere, and I do. I am adding the pertinent text here:
"God Bless you abundantly!
In order to make our household functions a blessing to all, we want to share these guidelines for appropriate dress at ministry events. Please contact your fellowship coordinator if you have any questions or needs.
Yours in Christ,
(LC Name)
Limb Functions - Best Dress
Men: Dark suit, blue or black. Holy Spirit Pin on right lapel. Dark or red tie, muted patterns. Dark shoes, to match suit.
Ladies: Dress or suit. Two piece sets are less formal.
Branch Functions
Men: Light suits, jacket and slacks, and tie. Dark shoes.
Ladies: Dresses or skirts and tops. Arms should not be bare.
Casually nice: No jeans, no ripped clothing, no shorts, no tennis shoes. Pressed jeans and all clothing given attention to wear and stains.
Household fellowship: No blue jeans, no sneakers or tennis shoes, no t-shirts with slogans.
__________________
Now, according to my own final naming system, this was just an initial rough draft. I recall the final was circulated and I think I didn't bother saving it.
Interestingly enough, two weeks after this was floated through the limb, a branch function was held in the H*mb**ck's home. The BC and his entire family showed up in matching track suits and brand new trainers. The rest of us were demurely attired in clothing suitable as described above.
I asked the BC's wife about it afterwards. She said, "Well, these are appropriate, and they a brand new."
"True," I replied. "They are new. And they're still track suits. I think the rest of us would have loved to be here on a lovely summer day in similar attire."
*sigh*
We were M&A'd a few weeks later. It was the best six months of my life in twi, and coincidentally, the best six months of our marriage. Things went south again after we were "welcomed back to the household".
((((to all))) who were ever made to feel little, or small, or socially inept.
~QT
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Kit Sober
Bolshevik,
IMHO it's more important to match our thoughts and deeds with the Lord's. :) :) :) :) :)
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washingtonweather
It occurred to me the other day...can't you just see some pharisee ....ed that Jesus didn't have the right shoes? or anything else for that matter....how horribly religious they are.
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Cowgirl
Sounds like Hitler and his "super race of people" he wanted so badly, he wanted total control over the invidual and if you didn't measure up or conform to his ways you were toast!!
Cowgirl
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johniam
quote: What was it that made way leaders think someone was Homosexual? Something they observed, like the guy from fellowship in the back seat of a parked car with his male lover, going at it? A man being sweet? His clothing? Tone of voice? Color choices? (and, why mainly men? Don’t recall women being accused.. maybe some where?)
It was the whims of their evil thinking. LCM set the tone for that. In 1990 at corps week he said someone had a certain devil spirit "because only a 5 star general would DARE say such and such in front of the entire way corps". Nothing about God, by His revealing it to you. So if Moe (LCM) can make pronouncements like that, then Larry and Curly (butt kisser leaders who carried out those purges) could walk by their flesh and call it "reasonable spiritual suspicion".
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TrustAndObey
I remember those days of close scrutinization (if that is even a word).. And I remember, very embarrisingly, working with a couple to clean their house up or be m&a'd because they had one to many things in their garage and a spare bedroom.. I felt so bad going to their house and critiquing how it looked because the BC said it was a mess.. I really didn't think it was all that bad, but maybe I just wasn't "spiritual" enough to realize it!
Just sad.. And thankful that our Father accepts us even when we've gone and lived with the pigs, only to return home and have Him clothe us with such fine things..
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Attack Gypsy
M&A'd because of clothing? Come on...
We would have been M&A'd in seconds. Our Twig (Not HF, Twig), was full of young people. We'd have fellowship, dressed in our volleyball uniforms, then go play in the league we all belonged to. Then go have a beer afterwards.
This is just stupid.
The one and only.... Attack Gypsy
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notinKansasanymore
I was marked, but not avoided, by VPW himself once, because of clothing. It seems now to be only a preview of what TWI 2 had in store for folks.
When I was on staff, I was in the Word Over The World Auditorium Choir. In addition to spending part of every Sunday getting my hair done up like a Lawrence Welk singer on acid, and putting on a live-to-tape television program, we spent one or two evenings each week in rehearsal. During one of these rehearsals, when the auditorium was still smelling of brand-new carpet and paint, VPW came to sit in the middle of the auditorium and watch our rehearsal. He was making comments, and generally giving advice; he had a microphone. I was wearing a new pair of nice purple pants; they were not a bright purple; they were more of a plum color. I was standing on the back row of women, because I'm tall.
The women in front of me must have shifted, or something, because all of a sudden, over the loud speakers, comes VPW's gravelly voice: "You. In the back. Purple pants." I was stunned that he had singled me out. So was everybody else; you could have heard a pin drop. The women in front of me shifted a little more, so that he could see me clearly. They were very courteous.
"Yes, sir?" I replied.
"Are those new pants?" he asked.
"Yes, sir."
"Those are the ugliest pants I've ever seen in my life."
Talk about total silence. I turned, I'm sure, three kinds of red.
Then, he went back to business, as though he hadn't just done something unutterably rude. We all went back to rehearsing.
I just wanted to die.
Did I answer that he was rude? Uncaring? Or use more colorful language than my pants?
No, of course not. He was the man of God. There must be something devilish about my pants.
Know what? Nobody else said one word about it, either. Not one person said, "that was really mean of him." Nobody mentioned it at all. It was as though everybody pretended it had never happened.
He was a mean, crotchety old man who ran roughshod over people, hated women, and enjoyed the superiority that he felt when he made other people uncomfortable.
I never wore those new pants again.
OF COURSE people in TWI confront one another over wearing old shoes. Look at their example!
A corrupt tree cannot bear good fruit.
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