My daughter was a vegetarian for a couple of years. She was the most healthy during this time. Because she was a teen she felt that she was missing out when we were having barbecues and such so quit. I have also thought about this and I know someone that has a website that she made her own diet from if anyone is interested. You can private post me and I will let you know where to find it. This lady lost over I think it is 300 pounds. I met her in a chat room with overeaters.
You make very good points BUT...lol...why discount improving nutrition or making a change to see if it's better ~ especially since the best nutrition we can possibly get is from the soil.
Sorry, I don't eat dirt. :)-->
Vegetables alone do not provide sufficient protein, certain minerals, and several vitamins. Animals eat the vegetables and turn them into quite nutritious compounds for us, which is very nice of them.
Any diet you have to take pills to supplement is NOT complete, and therefore a less than optimal practice.
Sometimes people want to jump into something new ~ something that is more beneficial!
Even ~ just to try it!
Something new, or temporary, that's fine. But it isn't necessarily more beneficial--try to raise an infant as a vegetarian and you'll likely damage it. Prior to the age of two, brain development depends on sufficient intake of saturated fats and cholesterol. It's too bad we can't claim bacon and eggs are brain food after the age of two, though.
No matter what the outcome, it's fun and you learn something!
Yes, you learn there's no substitute for a good cheeseburger. Or a good ear of roasted sweet corn, for that matter. We're built to be omnivorous with good reason.
I understand that many Guys and Gals love their meats with potatoes and such (I do occasionally)...and that is fine with me...just sometimes, people look to improve their nutritional well-being, their lifestyle, and their moods and over-all health, even their rest, and that's always a good thing.
Eating better is always a good thing. Vegetarianism doesn't always live up to its press releases. Moderation cuts both ways.
What better thing physically is there to do then get into something where results ~ no matter how far along or how long one aspires to do it ~ are usually always for the best and pretty much, instantanious also.
Instantaneous? That only works for Popeye and his spinach. Meat is not poison. Chemicals are the same regardless of their source, and anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to charge you double for "organic" supplements.
However, green tea does make good Southern sweet tea, surprisingly enough. Unfortunately, most people won't taste it because it looks just like swamp water. Their loss.
Well, I'll start off by saying I haven't made the switch to vegetarianism - my dear hubby would never go for it. But I have a good vegetarian cookbook and slip in some meatless meals now and again. So, I'm no expert.
I have looked into it, though. And it depends on whether you're planning on giving up all animal products. If you're willing to include dairy products and eggs in your diet (lacto-ovo vegetarian) then you should have no problem getting all the nutrients you need. If you want to exclude these (pure vegetarian or vegan diet), then it gets a little trickier.
I have a good book called "Becoming Vegetarian" by Melina, Davis & Harrison that would be a place to start. Maybe your library would have a copy. And I agree that Dr. Weil is also a good source of information.
Vegetarian might be ok, but Vegan can have some deleterious effects in the long run.
My sister was raised on "meat & potatoes" the same as I and our other siblings. In the late '80s, she and her first husband divorced, and she met a guy who was into a "new age" religion. This religion mimiced the Hindu religion in that they are strict vegetarians that won't eat ANYTHING from an animal. Not even chicken stock or boulion of any kind.
Cutting to the chase, after 14 years of this, my sister and her second husband developed some medical problems because of their vegetarian diet.
To solve those problems, they started on dairy products, and eggs, but nothing that would cause an animal to die. They finally ended up having to eat fish to make up for what their diet was otherwise lacking. They're OK now, but still won't touch red or white meat except fish.
To each his own, I say. Because of what happened to my sister, I still eat meat when the mood hits me. Not just any kind of meat either. I have always had a problem with pork, and because of that, I've begun to shun pork. I've been "off" pork for the last year now, and I've seen a great improvement in my health. Don't get me wrong, I still have an occasional bacon strip, or sausage patty now and then, but it's not the every to every other day thing it used to be.
I still love beef, lamb, and chicken, and eat those quite regularly with no ill effects except, of course, the weight I gain if I eat too much. :D-->
I've also stopped using margerine because most margerines are made from purified pork fat - more commonly known as LARD. I get sick when I eat it, so I use butter instead, which doesn't make me sick. Among margerines, 100% corn oil types and Benecol are the only ones that don't make me sick - but they don't taste all that good either.
Something that my sister did manage to teach me about vegetables is to eat them raw, or steamed, whenever possible to maximize both flavor and nutritional effect. Also, vegetable and fruit juices are a big plus over soda and cool-aid. :)-->
Im not a vegiterian. But around 10 yrs. ago my ex-husband had an employment px and found out his cholestrol was very high. It was around 300. So we went on a heart healthy diet that lasted about 5 yrs. We cut out totaly red meat pork . I cooked only with turkey, white chicken, and fish. We lost weight and felt much better. It was difficult to cut out those big robust sirlions and pork roast on Sundays. But the truth is we felt better. We never felt like our food just sat in our bellys making us feel full and plump, and my other dishes were satisfying.We did miss bacon tho. I use to walk in restaurants on saturday mornings and smell the bacon and just went awe.....We were not trying to be trendy just live a little healthier lifestyle. I remember the first steak I had after doing this for years. I could taste the grease in my mouth and it stayed in my tummy for days....It took weeks to get use to the old habits.
You had to know that this subject would bring out the masterherbalist.
I hate to say that Zixar is wrong, but we are herbavores. Our dental makeup is just like the gorilla who lives substantially on fruit, vegetation, nuts, seeds. Unlike a meat eating animal, we do not have the enzymes in our saliva, do not have the tearing teeth, do not have the digestive make up in the stomach, nor is our intestinal tract as short as a carnavore. Meat eating animals actually have teeth that tear into and grind up their meal. The enzymes assist in breaking down the substance. The amount of time that the meat is actually in the digestive process is very short so that it does not decay and autointoxify. Many of our digestive problems in this country is that we eat so much meat, cook out the enzymes, which might help with the digestion and then it sits in our colons for sometimes days.
Now, that being said, there is no truth to the fact that vegetarians cannot be healthy and flourish on a well-balanced diet. The Creator placed the original folks in the garden where they freely ate of the vegetation. Meat was only utilized on the ole Ark because for 40 days and 40 nights and no refrigerator, your fruits and vegetables would note last. But it was a temporary measure. Unfortunately, the suceeding generations kept eating meat and the decline in age from Adam's 900 years to Noah's 600 years declines rather rapidly. There is no other information given for this lifespan declination. Moses lived to be 120 which seems to be the max we can expect now, but we are not even making it close to that.
All this being said, I find most of my consultations are really made up of designing nutritional diets. Alot less meat and more of the other stuff. When you are sick, it is best not to be eating meat.
Unfortunately, many people equate the declaration of becoming vegetarians with martyrism and starvation. This is not the case. My own family would not have taken to an overnite change. And they didn't. I looked first to add more vegetables, come up with interesting recipes for salads, adding fruits by smoothies and the like. Eventually I found products like Gardenburgers had actually improved taste-wise and I could prepare "burgers". No one knew the difference, except I knew it was better for them. They produce meatballs now and I recently made them in spaghetti sauce. Never revealed to them that I brought them. When they did find out, they were surprised. More choices are out there in breakfast patties, etc., if you want to use them in place of meat.
There are a lot of positives to becoming vegetarian, but I know of very few full-time, full-fledged vegetarians. Even the masterherbalist is not a total vegetarian. I do not, however, eat any red meat or pork. I eat a small amount of turkey, chicken and fish. But the majority of my diet is fruits and vegetables. I use a juicer or go to the juice bar and get a smoothie for breakfast/late morning break. I have a salad or juice for lunch and eat a reasonable dinner. I will admit that I have a sweet tooth.
See, the key to vitality is to go beyond counting calories, fat content, sodium content or the like. Get with a nutritionist who believes in counting vitamins and mineral amounts and attempts to exceed the RDA accepted levels. A diet which gives the body what it needs to function will actually assist the body in finding its proper weight.
I expect many opposing comments here, however, allow me to state that I went to school for nutrition, and natural healing. I have also incorporated these principles in my own life and taught them for years. My goal is to work with the body I have got to be the most vital and energetic. Though I am the masterherbalist, it is alot more than just herbs.
vegans and its one of the most contentious, competitive social scenes I have ever been around. These people can be near militant in their beliefs about what is okay (or not ) to put into your body.
The trouble is - most of these people
have no training in nutrition ,physiology,
or anatomy but this doesn't stop them from
advancing intricate theories and recommendations
as if they were universally established truths.
I've seen knock down drag outs between "super-vegans" arguing over the nutritional value of a certain type of wheat. And they say that meat
eaters are tense.
I'm aware that this is probably not representative of the larger group of people
who simply want to eat better and are searching
for ways to increase health as they transition
from middle age. I know I am. But I don't want
to go on retreats, listen to swamis, buy crystals, have my "ears candled", channel
spirits, buy DeePak Chopra tapes etc just to get some sound advice on what to eat.
Another thing that is annoying about the
social scene is the "look" of the crowd. They
all seem to be pasty, near skeletal, and frankly
in need of a bath. The men insist on growing
beards longer than those found in the band ZZ Top. I dont' know of some statistical correlation between beard length and vegetarianism but these seems to be a cultural correlation.
I recommend a consultation with a licensed
nutritonist/ dietician. Better yet find one
who is a practicing vegetarian. That way
you can avoid all the mystic BS and get straight up answers based on science instead of rumour or psycho-babble of some swami.
I have wondered if nutritionalists spent much time studying an indigenous and seasonal approach to a healthy diet...
My parents are well into their eighties,are hardly ever sick or overweight,and because they were both old fahioned and tightwads,pretty much raised us living off the land....
We only had about three acres but we pretty much raised most of our own food....In summer our chickens laid a ton of eggs-so we ate eggs almost everyday...In the cold months they quit laying,so they became chicken soup...We raised a calf in the grass-growing months,and it would be our source of protein in winter...
We hardly ever ate meat in the summer,because the animals were growing and vegetables were in season....In the fall we ate a lot of fruits that were in harvest....In the winter we ate a lot of cereal grains and potatoes,which store well,but few green vegetables..
I know it would be difficult to live off the land in an urban setting,but I do think our bodies have different requirements at different times of the year.With cheap transportation and modern growing methods,virtually every type of food is available year-round..Nutritionalists like to use phrases like "minimum daily requirements".But if our daily requirements change from season to season, maybe what we eat should also vary according to the seasons...
beards longer than those found in the band ZZ Top. I dont' know of some statistical correlation between beard length and vegetarianism but these seems to be a cultural correlation.
I have to agree I have met vegans and they do seem to be an odd color and look like they just had Chemo. That is why I came here to see who thought what works.
What if I eat fish instead of red meat, pork and foul?
Dot: Fish is ok, but make sure you vary the kinds you eat, though. You can also get some of the things vegetables lack if you keep eating dairy products and eggs, too.
A classic example of getting documentation together to support "your" theory.
The post by simon was very demonstrative of what really works. People who, as Dr. Christopher used to say, "eat under their own fig tree" and eat according to the season. But how many of us really do that?
Dot, if you were coming to me for counsel on creating a diet that not only feeds the body but makes you feel good, and tastes good, we would look at the follow:
Current diet and health
"Upbringing" diet
Current lifestyle and exercise
Ailments (chronic or reoccurring)
Prescription Medications
Personal food likes and dislikes
A specific program, just for you, with plenty of room to "tweak". A program that changes as your tastes and commitment changes.
So a good nutritionist should give you a plan that is flexible but progressive where you should "see" a noticeable change in how you feel. When you are not terminally sick, I don't see ruling out eggs and dairy, nor fish- but strive to get the best.
Let's get our blenders out this morning!
8 oz of pineapple/banana juice
handful of chopped coconut
one whole banana
ice as needed for how thick you want it to be.
BLEND-drink!!! A Pineapple Colada!!!!!!
8 oz of apple juice (or strawberry-apple combo)
handful of frozen strawberries
one whole banana
ice as needed for how thick you want it to be.
BLEND-drink!!! A Strawberry Scream!!!!!!!!
(These are not hard and fast recipes- I've seen people add a scoop of sorbet or a scoop of low fat yogurt as well as other berries, fruits)
I think . . . (if only people could always remember the distinction between and opinion and fact --> )
1. Eating with thanksgiving that which is set before you is a big deal. I did a 90-day fast, and this separated myself from loved ones with whom I would eat. That was the hardest of all.
Over the course of my short life I have seen too many people spoil others' offers of friendship in food by their opinionated and selfish wants.
When we were children my sister made my brother a birthday cake, and it was sunk in the middle so she filled it with frosting -- and she was crying as she gave it to him. . . (My brother did not like sweet stuff). . . and Pete said, Oh Suzy, it's lovely, and ate 2 big pieces, all the while thanking her and telling her how lovely it was. . .
Then later when Pete came home from the Peace corps, he was almost fat. . . and he said, "People offer food as a present, and the only way to say thank you and not hurt their feelings is to eat it!"
I guess I think food is more than what you eat.
2. teeth are not healthy unless they get strong things to chew on.
One thing that keeps me from eating very much meat is the way animals are treated on factory farms. I have read what goes on in those places, and I don't want my actions in any way to perpetuate that system.
I know everyone feels differently about this, but I do not think that animals' feelings should be discounted simply because they are animals. I have decided that "do unto others" does not apply just to other humans.
Each person must listen with open honesty to conscience, and to act with integrity once the voice of conscience has been heard. If your conscience is not making any warnings, consider reading more about factory-farm conditions for animals.
"Democracies have been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death." --James Madison
when i joined the gym my counselor became very concerned when asking about my diet and i set my mountain dew on his desk pulled the non filter pall mall's out of my pocket set them on top and said there is a real meal!
so if you haven't figured it out I AM NO EXPERT when it comes to diet!
But I have found that a daily dose of mint choc chip goes a long ways in maintaining a healthy mental attitude!
I have also found that reducing stress levels can improve the quality of ones life in a remarkable way.
If you haven't done it yet find something you love and DO IT!
life is short and life is fragile get out and enjoy it!
I love Dr Weil and I've learned tons from Dr Mercola's website. This book, "The Metabolic Typing Diet" has been an eye-opener as to why some people thrive as vegetarians and others don't. Once again, it's about balance on an individual basis. Here's a partial review of the book;
People are unique in more ways than we can see. Stomachs and other internal organs come in many different shapes and sizes. Digestive juices, too, can vary dramatically from one person to another. Thus, according to author William Linz Wolcott, founder of Healthexcel, a company that provides metabolic typing for individuals, it stands to reason that different foods have very different effects on different people.
Wolcott believes that tailoring your diet to your body's particular quirks--metabolic typing--will improve digestion, circulation, immunity, energy, and mood. To determine your type, he has you take a 65-question test (the questions range from nose moisture to how you feel about potatoes), then place yourself in one of three categories: protein type, carbo type, or mixed type.
The protein type is instructed to eat a diet that's 40 percent protein, 30 percent fat, and 30 percent carbs. The carbo type gets 60 percent carbs, 25 percent protein, and 15 percent fat. And the mixed type should consume 50 percent carbs, 30 percent protein, and 20 percent fat, although this type has to play with the ratios a little more to find the optimal mix.
Although The Metabolic Typing Diet is based on information from researchers the majority of the public will never have heard of, Wolcott makes a strong case that it's all based on common sense: most of the dietary problems we have come from ignoring the foods that make us feel satisfied and energetic in favor of ones that we feel we're supposed to eat, or foods that we eat in desperation because our last meal left us hungry or lethargic.
People who, as Dr. Christopher used to say, "eat under their own fig tree" and eat according to the season. But how many of us really do that?
>>
Eating food products indigenous to one's geographical situation has been promoted
since I can remember. Some of the communes
I knew about ,way back when,
were deeply into this concept - I can't say it was consistently applied cause when you are hungry you will eat food grown on Mars.
And famished hippies will eat at the Burger King without hesitation if there is nothing else around though we ,err I mean THEY, would
order to-go to avoid being seen in such
a place.
The guy from the 80s TV show "A-Team" , Dirk Benedict, wrote a book which detailed his fight against cancer using such an approach - eating
regional, seasonal foods.
All that said there are an enormous number of variables at work relating to life span. Like Simon I have relatives who were born on a farm and never left - they primarily ate food grown by themselves and no one else. One lived to be 105 , one died at 35 of a heart attack whereas most retired from life in their mid to late 70s - the national average. (Actually the
guy who lived to be 105 was a life time boozer
and smoker of unfiltered cigarettes).
What to say about eating
food grown in your back yard ? well its economical and probably instills a sense of
pride and accomplishment though I don't know
sceintifically that this is a key variable in
influencing lifespan. The only scientifically
proven life extension technique of which I know
is exercise.
Make no mistake - diet is essential to health
its just that I cannot accept oft repeated
tales of longevity based on eating one type or
one family of food because there are no major
scientific studies which isolate this concept
as a primary variable. This doens't mean that
its not a good approach just that they can't
*prove* that it is.
There are often genetic propensities at work which outweigh some of our daily habits and there are genetics "triggers" which can get pulled by to introduce a disease state into the body. As we age the likelihood of one of these
triggers getting pulled goes up which
nonconicidentally leads to more frequent
disease states in the aging body.
I know that one of genetic science's primary aims at this time is to learn how to "turn off" such mechanisms arbitrarily without distrubing the balance. It could very well be that herbs
and naturally occurring substances are used to
prevent the activation of the trigger but its
more difficult to turn it off once its started
because it moves to every cell. So a more holistic treatment (gene therapy) is needed.
I keep hearing these references to "RED MEAT" and the implication that it is supposedly bad for you.
Perhaps it is, while it's still red in color. Just to let you know, when I eat beef, buffalo, lamb, veal, venison, or any other "RED" meat, it's not red anymore.
I cook it all the way through. By the time I eat it, it's either brown or gray, not even a little pink. Texans have accused me of "burning" my meat, but with a little salt and pepper, it's delicious!
Funny thing about the so-called "white" meats. They don't turn white until you cook them. :o-->
I'm no dummy (I think) though. I eat plenty of vegetables, fruits, and nuts (I LOVE pecans :)--> ).
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Shellon
...
[This message was edited by Shellon on May 30, 2003 at 2:41.]
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Zixar
If God had intended for us to subsist on bunny food, He would have given us flat teeth. Vegetarianism is more like a religion than a diet.
Balance your foods, keep variety in your cuisine, take a walk, and cut down on your total calories.
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vickles
My daughter was a vegetarian for a couple of years. She was the most healthy during this time. Because she was a teen she felt that she was missing out when we were having barbecues and such so quit. I have also thought about this and I know someone that has a website that she made her own diet from if anyone is interested. You can private post me and I will let you know where to find it. This lady lost over I think it is 300 pounds. I met her in a chat room with overeaters.
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Zixar
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Square Peg
Well, I'll start off by saying I haven't made the switch to vegetarianism - my dear hubby would never go for it. But I have a good vegetarian cookbook and slip in some meatless meals now and again. So, I'm no expert.
I have looked into it, though. And it depends on whether you're planning on giving up all animal products. If you're willing to include dairy products and eggs in your diet (lacto-ovo vegetarian) then you should have no problem getting all the nutrients you need. If you want to exclude these (pure vegetarian or vegan diet), then it gets a little trickier.
I have a good book called "Becoming Vegetarian" by Melina, Davis & Harrison that would be a place to start. Maybe your library would have a copy. And I agree that Dr. Weil is also a good source of information.
Good luck. Let us know if you give it a whirl.
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Steve Swenton
Vegetarian might be ok, but Vegan can have some deleterious effects in the long run.
My sister was raised on "meat & potatoes" the same as I and our other siblings. In the late '80s, she and her first husband divorced, and she met a guy who was into a "new age" religion. This religion mimiced the Hindu religion in that they are strict vegetarians that won't eat ANYTHING from an animal. Not even chicken stock or boulion of any kind.
Cutting to the chase, after 14 years of this, my sister and her second husband developed some medical problems because of their vegetarian diet.
To solve those problems, they started on dairy products, and eggs, but nothing that would cause an animal to die. They finally ended up having to eat fish to make up for what their diet was otherwise lacking. They're OK now, but still won't touch red or white meat except fish.
To each his own, I say. Because of what happened to my sister, I still eat meat when the mood hits me. Not just any kind of meat either. I have always had a problem with pork, and because of that, I've begun to shun pork. I've been "off" pork for the last year now, and I've seen a great improvement in my health. Don't get me wrong, I still have an occasional bacon strip, or sausage patty now and then, but it's not the every to every other day thing it used to be.
I still love beef, lamb, and chicken, and eat those quite regularly with no ill effects except, of course, the weight I gain if I eat too much.
:D-->
I've also stopped using margerine because most margerines are made from purified pork fat - more commonly known as LARD. I get sick when I eat it, so I use butter instead, which doesn't make me sick. Among margerines, 100% corn oil types and Benecol are the only ones that don't make me sick - but they don't taste all that good either.
Something that my sister did manage to teach me about vegetables is to eat them raw, or steamed, whenever possible to maximize both flavor and nutritional effect. Also, vegetable and fruit juices are a big plus over soda and cool-aid.
:)-->
Just some thoughts to help you along...
Steve.
¥
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likeaneagle
Im not a vegiterian. But around 10 yrs. ago my ex-husband had an employment px and found out his cholestrol was very high. It was around 300. So we went on a heart healthy diet that lasted about 5 yrs. We cut out totaly red meat pork . I cooked only with turkey, white chicken, and fish. We lost weight and felt much better. It was difficult to cut out those big robust sirlions and pork roast on Sundays. But the truth is we felt better. We never felt like our food just sat in our bellys making us feel full and plump, and my other dishes were satisfying.We did miss bacon tho. I use to walk in restaurants on saturday mornings and smell the bacon and just went awe.....We were not trying to be trendy just live a little healthier lifestyle. I remember the first steak I had after doing this for years. I could taste the grease in my mouth and it stayed in my tummy for days....It took weeks to get use to the old habits.
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masterherbalist
You had to know that this subject would bring out the masterherbalist.
I hate to say that Zixar is wrong, but we are herbavores. Our dental makeup is just like the gorilla who lives substantially on fruit, vegetation, nuts, seeds. Unlike a meat eating animal, we do not have the enzymes in our saliva, do not have the tearing teeth, do not have the digestive make up in the stomach, nor is our intestinal tract as short as a carnavore. Meat eating animals actually have teeth that tear into and grind up their meal. The enzymes assist in breaking down the substance. The amount of time that the meat is actually in the digestive process is very short so that it does not decay and autointoxify. Many of our digestive problems in this country is that we eat so much meat, cook out the enzymes, which might help with the digestion and then it sits in our colons for sometimes days.
Now, that being said, there is no truth to the fact that vegetarians cannot be healthy and flourish on a well-balanced diet. The Creator placed the original folks in the garden where they freely ate of the vegetation. Meat was only utilized on the ole Ark because for 40 days and 40 nights and no refrigerator, your fruits and vegetables would note last. But it was a temporary measure. Unfortunately, the suceeding generations kept eating meat and the decline in age from Adam's 900 years to Noah's 600 years declines rather rapidly. There is no other information given for this lifespan declination. Moses lived to be 120 which seems to be the max we can expect now, but we are not even making it close to that.
All this being said, I find most of my consultations are really made up of designing nutritional diets. Alot less meat and more of the other stuff. When you are sick, it is best not to be eating meat.
Unfortunately, many people equate the declaration of becoming vegetarians with martyrism and starvation. This is not the case. My own family would not have taken to an overnite change. And they didn't. I looked first to add more vegetables, come up with interesting recipes for salads, adding fruits by smoothies and the like. Eventually I found products like Gardenburgers had actually improved taste-wise and I could prepare "burgers". No one knew the difference, except I knew it was better for them. They produce meatballs now and I recently made them in spaghetti sauce. Never revealed to them that I brought them. When they did find out, they were surprised. More choices are out there in breakfast patties, etc., if you want to use them in place of meat.
There are a lot of positives to becoming vegetarian, but I know of very few full-time, full-fledged vegetarians. Even the masterherbalist is not a total vegetarian. I do not, however, eat any red meat or pork. I eat a small amount of turkey, chicken and fish. But the majority of my diet is fruits and vegetables. I use a juicer or go to the juice bar and get a smoothie for breakfast/late morning break. I have a salad or juice for lunch and eat a reasonable dinner. I will admit that I have a sweet tooth.
See, the key to vitality is to go beyond counting calories, fat content, sodium content or the like. Get with a nutritionist who believes in counting vitamins and mineral amounts and attempts to exceed the RDA accepted levels. A diet which gives the body what it needs to function will actually assist the body in finding its proper weight.
I expect many opposing comments here, however, allow me to state that I went to school for nutrition, and natural healing. I have also incorporated these principles in my own life and taught them for years. My goal is to work with the body I have got to be the most vital and energetic. Though I am the masterherbalist, it is alot more than just herbs.
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Dot Matrix
I found this and found it interesting
Vegetarian diet
http://www.eatright.org/adap1197.html
In support of our troops,
Dot Matrix
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diazbro
Discussions on the merits of adopting the
vegetarian lifestyle aside I can support
the view that some adopt the lifestyle as
a religion or cause. I live in a community
that is chock full of vegetrarians and
vegans and its one of the most contentious, competitive social scenes I have ever been around. These people can be near militant in their beliefs about what is okay (or not ) to put into your body.
The trouble is - most of these people
have no training in nutrition ,physiology,
or anatomy but this doesn't stop them from
advancing intricate theories and recommendations
as if they were universally established truths.
I've seen knock down drag outs between "super-vegans" arguing over the nutritional value of a certain type of wheat. And they say that meat
eaters are tense.
I'm aware that this is probably not representative of the larger group of people
who simply want to eat better and are searching
for ways to increase health as they transition
from middle age. I know I am. But I don't want
to go on retreats, listen to swamis, buy crystals, have my "ears candled", channel
spirits, buy DeePak Chopra tapes etc just to get some sound advice on what to eat.
Another thing that is annoying about the
social scene is the "look" of the crowd. They
all seem to be pasty, near skeletal, and frankly
in need of a bath. The men insist on growing
beards longer than those found in the band ZZ Top. I dont' know of some statistical correlation between beard length and vegetarianism but these seems to be a cultural correlation.
I recommend a consultation with a licensed
nutritonist/ dietician. Better yet find one
who is a practicing vegetarian. That way
you can avoid all the mystic BS and get straight up answers based on science instead of rumour or psycho-babble of some swami.
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Zixar
You might want to read this paper, which debunks a lot of the vegetarian myths.
http://www.caravanetresor.com/vegetarian_myth.htm
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simonzelotes
I have wondered if nutritionalists spent much time studying an indigenous and seasonal approach to a healthy diet...
My parents are well into their eighties,are hardly ever sick or overweight,and because they were both old fahioned and tightwads,pretty much raised us living off the land....
We only had about three acres but we pretty much raised most of our own food....In summer our chickens laid a ton of eggs-so we ate eggs almost everyday...In the cold months they quit laying,so they became chicken soup...We raised a calf in the grass-growing months,and it would be our source of protein in winter...
We hardly ever ate meat in the summer,because the animals were growing and vegetables were in season....In the fall we ate a lot of fruits that were in harvest....In the winter we ate a lot of cereal grains and potatoes,which store well,but few green vegetables..
I know it would be difficult to live off the land in an urban setting,but I do think our bodies have different requirements at different times of the year.With cheap transportation and modern growing methods,virtually every type of food is available year-round..Nutritionalists like to use phrases like "minimum daily requirements".But if our daily requirements change from season to season, maybe what we eat should also vary according to the seasons...
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Dot Matrix
All of these are great posts
I love this by DB
I have to agree I have met vegans and they do seem to be an odd color and look like they just had Chemo. That is why I came here to see who thought what works.
What if I eat fish instead of red meat, pork and foul?
In support of our troops,
Dot Matrix
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Zixar
Dot: Fish is ok, but make sure you vary the kinds you eat, though. You can also get some of the things vegetables lack if you keep eating dairy products and eggs, too.
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masterherbalist
Read the Vegetarian Myths:
A classic example of getting documentation together to support "your" theory.
The post by simon was very demonstrative of what really works. People who, as Dr. Christopher used to say, "eat under their own fig tree" and eat according to the season. But how many of us really do that?
Dot, if you were coming to me for counsel on creating a diet that not only feeds the body but makes you feel good, and tastes good, we would look at the follow:
Current diet and health
"Upbringing" diet
Current lifestyle and exercise
Ailments (chronic or reoccurring)
Prescription Medications
Personal food likes and dislikes
A specific program, just for you, with plenty of room to "tweak". A program that changes as your tastes and commitment changes.
So a good nutritionist should give you a plan that is flexible but progressive where you should "see" a noticeable change in how you feel. When you are not terminally sick, I don't see ruling out eggs and dairy, nor fish- but strive to get the best.
Let's get our blenders out this morning!
8 oz of pineapple/banana juice
handful of chopped coconut
one whole banana
ice as needed for how thick you want it to be.
BLEND-drink!!! A Pineapple Colada!!!!!!
8 oz of apple juice (or strawberry-apple combo)
handful of frozen strawberries
one whole banana
ice as needed for how thick you want it to be.
BLEND-drink!!! A Strawberry Scream!!!!!!!!
(These are not hard and fast recipes- I've seen people add a scoop of sorbet or a scoop of low fat yogurt as well as other berries, fruits)
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Kit Sober
I think . . . (if only people could always remember the distinction between and opinion and fact
--> )
1. Eating with thanksgiving that which is set before you is a big deal. I did a 90-day fast, and this separated myself from loved ones with whom I would eat. That was the hardest of all.
Over the course of my short life I have seen too many people spoil others' offers of friendship in food by their opinionated and selfish wants.
When we were children my sister made my brother a birthday cake, and it was sunk in the middle so she filled it with frosting -- and she was crying as she gave it to him. . . (My brother did not like sweet stuff). . . and Pete said, Oh Suzy, it's lovely, and ate 2 big pieces, all the while thanking her and telling her how lovely it was. . .
Then later when Pete came home from the Peace corps, he was almost fat. . . and he said, "People offer food as a present, and the only way to say thank you and not hurt their feelings is to eat it!"
I guess I think food is more than what you eat.
2. teeth are not healthy unless they get strong things to chew on.
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Angelfish
One thing that keeps me from eating very much meat is the way animals are treated on factory farms. I have read what goes on in those places, and I don't want my actions in any way to perpetuate that system.
I know everyone feels differently about this, but I do not think that animals' feelings should be discounted simply because they are animals. I have decided that "do unto others" does not apply just to other humans.
Each person must listen with open honesty to conscience, and to act with integrity once the voice of conscience has been heard. If your conscience is not making any warnings, consider reading more about factory-farm conditions for animals.
Angelfish
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Ron G.
The most perfect and nutritious (and delicious)food know to man is, of course, wild game such as venison, elk, bear, squirrel, rabbit, etc..
Second, is meat you've raised yourself. Grass fed beef is best, obviously.
Then eggs and maybe vegetables.
Buffalo is probably the most beneficial as it has the fatty acid pattern in the meat that our brain needs to function at it's best.
Check this 'un out.
http://www.westonaprice.org
******************************
"Democracies have been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death." --James Madison
DEO VINDICE!!
Ron G.
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7390
when i joined the gym my counselor became very concerned when asking about my diet and i set my mountain dew on his desk pulled the non filter pall mall's out of my pocket set them on top and said there is a real meal!
so if you haven't figured it out I AM NO EXPERT when it comes to diet!
But I have found that a daily dose of mint choc chip goes a long ways in maintaining a healthy mental attitude!
I have also found that reducing stress levels can improve the quality of ones life in a remarkable way.
If you haven't done it yet find something you love and DO IT!
life is short and life is fragile get out and enjoy it!
later
7390
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Rejoice
I love Dr Weil and I've learned tons from Dr Mercola's website. This book, "The Metabolic Typing Diet" has been an eye-opener as to why some people thrive as vegetarians and others don't. Once again, it's about balance on an individual basis. Here's a partial review of the book;
People are unique in more ways than we can see. Stomachs and other internal organs come in many different shapes and sizes. Digestive juices, too, can vary dramatically from one person to another. Thus, according to author William Linz Wolcott, founder of Healthexcel, a company that provides metabolic typing for individuals, it stands to reason that different foods have very different effects on different people.
Wolcott believes that tailoring your diet to your body's particular quirks--metabolic typing--will improve digestion, circulation, immunity, energy, and mood. To determine your type, he has you take a 65-question test (the questions range from nose moisture to how you feel about potatoes), then place yourself in one of three categories: protein type, carbo type, or mixed type.
The protein type is instructed to eat a diet that's 40 percent protein, 30 percent fat, and 30 percent carbs. The carbo type gets 60 percent carbs, 25 percent protein, and 15 percent fat. And the mixed type should consume 50 percent carbs, 30 percent protein, and 20 percent fat, although this type has to play with the ratios a little more to find the optimal mix.
Although The Metabolic Typing Diet is based on information from researchers the majority of the public will never have heard of, Wolcott makes a strong case that it's all based on common sense: most of the dietary problems we have come from ignoring the foods that make us feel satisfied and energetic in favor of ones that we feel we're supposed to eat, or foods that we eat in desperation because our last meal left us hungry or lethargic.
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Dot Matrix
Gosh all these posts are great!
Loved the mountain dew and cigs diet! Gross!
:D-->
Never heard of the metabolic thing would that be according to one's metabolism?
Masterherbalist, I will private topic you in a bit for my personal tips on food, thank you!
Ron G years ago I tried a beefalo burger and did not like it so much. I guess I just needed to get used to it!
In support of our troops,
Dot Matrix
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diazbro
Masterherbalist said:
People who, as Dr. Christopher used to say, "eat under their own fig tree" and eat according to the season. But how many of us really do that?
>>
Eating food products indigenous to one's geographical situation has been promoted
since I can remember. Some of the communes
I knew about ,way back when,
were deeply into this concept - I can't say it was consistently applied cause when you are hungry you will eat food grown on Mars.
And famished hippies will eat at the Burger King without hesitation if there is nothing else around though we ,err I mean THEY, would
order to-go to avoid being seen in such
a place.
The guy from the 80s TV show "A-Team" , Dirk Benedict, wrote a book which detailed his fight against cancer using such an approach - eating
regional, seasonal foods.
All that said there are an enormous number of variables at work relating to life span. Like Simon I have relatives who were born on a farm and never left - they primarily ate food grown by themselves and no one else. One lived to be 105 , one died at 35 of a heart attack whereas most retired from life in their mid to late 70s - the national average. (Actually the
guy who lived to be 105 was a life time boozer
and smoker of unfiltered cigarettes).
What to say about eating
food grown in your back yard ? well its economical and probably instills a sense of
pride and accomplishment though I don't know
sceintifically that this is a key variable in
influencing lifespan. The only scientifically
proven life extension technique of which I know
is exercise.
Make no mistake - diet is essential to health
its just that I cannot accept oft repeated
tales of longevity based on eating one type or
one family of food because there are no major
scientific studies which isolate this concept
as a primary variable. This doens't mean that
its not a good approach just that they can't
*prove* that it is.
There are often genetic propensities at work which outweigh some of our daily habits and there are genetics "triggers" which can get pulled by to introduce a disease state into the body. As we age the likelihood of one of these
triggers getting pulled goes up which
nonconicidentally leads to more frequent
disease states in the aging body.
I know that one of genetic science's primary aims at this time is to learn how to "turn off" such mechanisms arbitrarily without distrubing the balance. It could very well be that herbs
and naturally occurring substances are used to
prevent the activation of the trigger but its
more difficult to turn it off once its started
because it moves to every cell. So a more holistic treatment (gene therapy) is needed.
Exercise is very, very important. I do think
its wise to consult a licensed dietician who
can tailor a diet for you. There are vegetarian
deiticians out there who can help you should
you be inclined.
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Technobyte
I keep hearing these references to "RED MEAT" and the implication that it is supposedly bad for you.
Perhaps it is, while it's still red in color. Just to let you know, when I eat beef, buffalo, lamb, veal, venison, or any other "RED" meat, it's not red anymore.
I cook it all the way through. By the time I eat it, it's either brown or gray, not even a little pink. Texans have accused me of "burning" my meat, but with a little salt and pepper, it's delicious!
Funny thing about the so-called "white" meats. They don't turn white until you cook them.
:o-->
I'm no dummy (I think) though. I eat plenty of vegetables, fruits, and nuts (I LOVE pecans
:)--> ).
To each his own... Eat whatever suits YOU.
:)-->
Technobyte
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masterherbalist
diazbro:
Well-said. Very articulate and very informative.
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