and though I know there are others, I don't remember the titles.
All would be found in the "ABOUT THE WAY" forum.
Btw -- welcome to GreaseSpot.:)
Thanks dmiller.
I'm looking for those raised their entire life in The Way. Not necessarily those who raised kids in The Way and are concerned.
Those who have nothing to go back to. Those whose parents are still with The Way. Those whose parents work with Way leadership to keep them in The Way. Those who have not abandoned their family by being with The Way, but abandon their family by leaving The Way.
I know little of mainstream Christianity. I have a hard time believing there are those who haven't heard of The Way. I have always had problems with The Way and am very angry with The Way. The Way and my parents have used my youth against me to keep me "fellowshipping" and "serving".
I now have a child of my own. Yet still, according to The Way's teachings, I am not an adult.
I am looking for those who were denied free will to choose their service to The Way from birth.
Actually although I spoke of my kids in that thread. i was also practically raised in the Word. I was 11 when I got in and 39 when I left. What kind of information are you looking for?
There are a number of people here who were pretty much spent their childhood in TWI. Lindyhopper comes to mind as one as I recall, perhaps Sirguessalot too? You might drop them a note and see if they can turn you on to some others.
Yep I was raised in the Way. We got involved when I was 5 and I stayed untill just before my 26th birthday. I didn't get the presents I was expecting that year. My parents, two brothers and their families are still involved.
All our experiences are different obviously, but I left because I had come to major philosophical and theological differences in my belief system. I am agnostic now and had become one shortly before leaving. For me this was not the most radical thing about my leaving. For me it was thinking that by leaving, my family may never speak with me again. At the time it seemed like a very real possibility. There was also the control factor, the attempts of meddling in my life. The confrontations and prying didn't seem worth it anymore if I no longer believed the same things. There were definitely things wrong in my life, but a lot of it stemmed from living a lie and the rest from the legalism of the Way. So I left.
Thankfully, the uncomfortableness with my family didn't last forever. There is still the unspoken subject of my exit and it sort if looms overhead at times, but for the most part we are getting along well now. My relationship with my older brother is better than it has been in a long time.
Those who have not abandoned their family by being with The Way, but abandon their family by leaving The Way.
Wow, what a way to put it. It is definitely how I felt at times when I left. In this case of leaving the Way, though, the abandonment is really a two way street. When we leave we think we know that they don't want anything to do with us. Rightfully so, too, if you have been around long enough to have heard teaching after teaching and rant after rant about "copouts." Hopefully, though, the family bond is a little stronger. "Spirit is thicker than blood," was a crock of sh!t. I realise that not every family is like mine and perhaps it won't end up that you are all happily together again, but I am saying don't forget your part in the whole thing. Don't abandon them. Let that guilt lay on their heads in it comes to that. (I am assuming you are still in twi...it sounds like it.) Although, that doesn't mean it has to be that way from the start. I told no one (that was in) my reasons for leaving and it took time to get back to some sense of normalcy with my family. It was good that way. I needed to get away from the Way and they were a part of that.
It was very helpful to have had a network of "unbelieving" or non-Way friends and family when I left. My best friends from college were there for me and were supportive as was the small group of friends I had made through swing dancing, one of which I later married. Coming here helped immensely as well. The GSC has served as a sounding board and spring board to help me formulate more clearly what I believe and enlightened me to the rest of the crap that was going on, as well as new ideas and POV's and it continues to. Everyone here has always been supportive, even when the discussions in the doctrinal basement get rather heated it has still helped me learn new things about others and myself.
I know little of mainstream Christianity. I have a hard time believing there are those who haven't heard of The Way. I have always had problems with The Way and am very angry with The Way. The Way and my parents have used my youth against me to keep me "fellowshipping" and "serving".
I am looking for those who were denied free will to choose their service to The Way from birth.
(sometimes I go on and on, sorry)
Lol, the more you are away from the Way, the more you realise it is just this little group that only a fraction of a percent know or care about. You also will realise that mainstream Christianity is a lot different than what we were told it was in TWI. It isn't all that bad, I just don't believe in some of the basics.
I can't say that I was denied the freewill in choosing what I wanted to do, but going corps seemed like and I believe was presented as the logical step in your spiritual growth. TWI's class based ministry was designed in a way that in order to grow you had to go. I think that was a WOW slogan at one point, "you must go to grow." My parents were corps (not anymore) and my older brother went into it and it was assumed by most that I would go too. I assumed I would at some point, too.
I think the turning point for me was around the time the corps went full time, my parents got put on probation for a while and were dropped from "corps status" (whatever that means), and the local LC's had left their million dollar business behind to become "full time". "Put you hand to the plow and don't look back" was a recent theme at the time and these LCs had taught it many times. Then they left. That made me stop and look at my life a little differently. It made me examine that assumption that I had been making... that I would go corps someday. I realised there was no "calling" for me. Thankfully, my parents raised me to find something I like and do it. They wanted me to keep God first too, but they never pushed the corps on me.
I did do many things at the urging of leadingship though. I left a good living situation to go live with a guy that was old enough to be my father and ended up acting that way to a degree. There were a lot of other things as well. When I left it seemed like my younger brother was brought in closer to the "fold" and the local leaders and he was given more responsibility. I think he deals with some of the same things you are talking about here.
It is ok to be mad at TWI. They deserve it reallly. I still get mad. I have been over talking with the Way myspacers for a while. I don't get mad over there, but I keep getting accused of being bitter. I'm not bitter. I am very happy with where I am now. I can't regret too much, but I can still get angry. If something is wrong, it is ok to get angry about it. Eccl 7:7 says "surely oppression makes a wise man mad..." so even the Bible says it is ok. We may not be talking about slavery here, but it is oppression and there is a lot wrong with TWI.
So, are you thinking or planning on leaving TWI or are you kind of stuck like some here are or have been?
Pmosh was raised in it. He isn't on here much anymore unless he has another screne name.
Bliss's husband is an old friend of mine from the younger years, but I don't know if he posts here and I don't know if Bliss was raised in the Way either.
I knew freeatlast was raised in it too, as well as a number of people that don't come here very often.
Pmosh's story is here. Mine is here. Maybe some of that will help you in some way.
Lindyhopper: Eccl 7:7 says "surely oppression makes a wise man mad..."
I don't know what wisdom I have that's truly wisdom (again, raised in The Way) but anger is one thing I know I have in abundance. Like a lot of people here at Grease Spot I lost time (or just wasted it, life's not over I know.)
The free will subject is a tough one for me. In The Way, free will is like democracy. Leadership basically teaches you "How is a democracy supposed to work if everyone votes wrong?"(3rd Rock)
If ever I spoke of a concern in The Way pretty much any adult would just say "Well, foolishness is bound in the heart of a child." Well, I'm looking at my own child now. He doesn't look inherently evil.
When I was a teenager I said I didn't want to go to twig. I was told "tough, obey". Okay I said, I'll wait.
Then I was 18, hundreds of miles from home, I said "okay, time for me to make my own decisions". NOPE. Your still a kid. Your still covered by your parents. Send detailed schedules to your parents home each week and report deviations etc. etc. (a number of LCs and my parents coordinated that one, in fact an LC from a different region was instructing my parents on what to do.)
It was clear to me then that TWI = my parents = TWI.
Then the flip-flopping started. One day I'm and adult, the next under my folks, depending on the circumstance.
The entire time I was convinced that if I didn't to as I was told I would be recieving an eternal scolding from J.C. at the bema for my disobedience. If I didn't obey my parents, I would die young, because if obedience to parents guarentees long life, then the converse it true. . . Anyway, ....ed.
I've been straddling the fence for awhile. I figure I'll put the DTA class to good use. You see, the Adversary sees I'm on the fence. So he's gonna make my life all comfy and give me all sorts of stuff I want. But I know he's just goading me and is ready to pull the rug out from under me once I jump to his side. So once I do, and see he's coming for me, I just jump right back on the fence. I'll get him to bait me again, take the bait and leave the hook. You know, just play him awhile. That is what the spiritual competition is all about right? Games and prizes?
Forget about that tricking the adversary/ sitting on the fence stuff.
When I was "in", the thinking was that if life was throwing you some curves, it must be because you were "moving" The Word and the Devil was trying to stop you. Then the line of thinking was that if life was throwing you some curves, it was because you had done something wrong and it was negating your"believing". Sometimes life just sucks. It's not your fault, Gods' fault or even the Devils' fault. Life just isn't always fair. Do what you feel in your heart is the right thing and don't try to read a bunch of spiritual mumbo- jumbo into it. That stuff about the adversary being involved in every aspect of life is nothing more than an attempt to control you and force you to conform to TWI doctrine.
Here is a little side note for you.
Recently in Ohio, three graduate students were killed in a tragic car wreck. They were stopped at a red light when a car slammed into them. All three were from China. One of the philosophical struggles their families is trying to cope with is trying to understand what they did wrong to attract this tragedy.
It seems that ideolgy is also present in Eastern religious thinking as well.
Focus on what you know to be the best and most logical course of action to take (and then ask God for his blessing on your decision.) Don't try to play "spiritual chess".
That's just my opinion and everybody's got one.
Now on the democracy thing: The USA is NOT a democracy, it is a republic. That's a lesson for another time.
I meant that last part about the fence and the devil as joke. I'm just commenting that I've got to a point where I don't believe the practices of The Way can be taught or learned. The rules are just made up as the powers that be go.
As for the China thing, that is very interesting. I googled "law of believing" and found in it three major catergories(at that time anyway) 1. Wierwille related stuff. 2. Nature worship/spiritualist/cosmic something-or-others (religions I don't understand) 3. and most predominantly, Roman Catholiscm.
(and yes I do know the US is a republic, distinct from a democracy and what I was referring to was the wierd way leadership makes a good thing so bad.)
Sometimes my posts are not a true representation of what I'm trying to say. In other words, sometimes I'm a bit of a clutz at conveying my point. I surely had no intent of saying anything that might seem condesending or offensive. I offer my appologies if I have done so.
My comment on democracy was not directed at you but at the quotation in your post.
From your posts, you seem to be a fine young man who has a sincere desire to do "the right thing" for yourself and your family. There is a real shortage of that sort of thing in the world today.
HMMM! Can't seem to find an emoticon with an olive branch, so I guess I'll just have to settle for:--------
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dmiller
It depends on what you're looking for.
There's a recent one HERE
.
and though I know there are others, I don't remember the titles.
All would be found in the "ABOUT THE WAY" forum.
Btw -- welcome to GreaseSpot.:)
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Bolshevik
Thanks dmiller.
I'm looking for those raised their entire life in The Way. Not necessarily those who raised kids in The Way and are concerned.
Those who have nothing to go back to. Those whose parents are still with The Way. Those whose parents work with Way leadership to keep them in The Way. Those who have not abandoned their family by being with The Way, but abandon their family by leaving The Way.
I know little of mainstream Christianity. I have a hard time believing there are those who haven't heard of The Way. I have always had problems with The Way and am very angry with The Way. The Way and my parents have used my youth against me to keep me "fellowshipping" and "serving".
I now have a child of my own. Yet still, according to The Way's teachings, I am not an adult.
I am looking for those who were denied free will to choose their service to The Way from birth.
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FreeAtLast
Actually although I spoke of my kids in that thread. i was also practically raised in the Word. I was 11 when I got in and 39 when I left. What kind of information are you looking for?
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dmiller
Bolshevik --HERE'S ANOTHER THREAD, by bek.
From the My Story Forum.
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HAPe4me
There are a number of people here who were pretty much spent their childhood in TWI. Lindyhopper comes to mind as one as I recall, perhaps Sirguessalot too? You might drop them a note and see if they can turn you on to some others.
~HAP
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lindyhopper
Yep I was raised in the Way. We got involved when I was 5 and I stayed untill just before my 26th birthday. I didn't get the presents I was expecting that year. My parents, two brothers and their families are still involved.
All our experiences are different obviously, but I left because I had come to major philosophical and theological differences in my belief system. I am agnostic now and had become one shortly before leaving. For me this was not the most radical thing about my leaving. For me it was thinking that by leaving, my family may never speak with me again. At the time it seemed like a very real possibility. There was also the control factor, the attempts of meddling in my life. The confrontations and prying didn't seem worth it anymore if I no longer believed the same things. There were definitely things wrong in my life, but a lot of it stemmed from living a lie and the rest from the legalism of the Way. So I left.
Thankfully, the uncomfortableness with my family didn't last forever. There is still the unspoken subject of my exit and it sort if looms overhead at times, but for the most part we are getting along well now. My relationship with my older brother is better than it has been in a long time.
Wow, what a way to put it. It is definitely how I felt at times when I left. In this case of leaving the Way, though, the abandonment is really a two way street. When we leave we think we know that they don't want anything to do with us. Rightfully so, too, if you have been around long enough to have heard teaching after teaching and rant after rant about "copouts." Hopefully, though, the family bond is a little stronger. "Spirit is thicker than blood," was a crock of sh!t. I realise that not every family is like mine and perhaps it won't end up that you are all happily together again, but I am saying don't forget your part in the whole thing. Don't abandon them. Let that guilt lay on their heads in it comes to that. (I am assuming you are still in twi...it sounds like it.) Although, that doesn't mean it has to be that way from the start. I told no one (that was in) my reasons for leaving and it took time to get back to some sense of normalcy with my family. It was good that way. I needed to get away from the Way and they were a part of that.It was very helpful to have had a network of "unbelieving" or non-Way friends and family when I left. My best friends from college were there for me and were supportive as was the small group of friends I had made through swing dancing, one of which I later married. Coming here helped immensely as well. The GSC has served as a sounding board and spring board to help me formulate more clearly what I believe and enlightened me to the rest of the crap that was going on, as well as new ideas and POV's and it continues to. Everyone here has always been supportive, even when the discussions in the doctrinal basement get rather heated it has still helped me learn new things about others and myself.
(sometimes I go on and on, sorry)
Lol, the more you are away from the Way, the more you realise it is just this little group that only a fraction of a percent know or care about. You also will realise that mainstream Christianity is a lot different than what we were told it was in TWI. It isn't all that bad, I just don't believe in some of the basics.
I can't say that I was denied the freewill in choosing what I wanted to do, but going corps seemed like and I believe was presented as the logical step in your spiritual growth. TWI's class based ministry was designed in a way that in order to grow you had to go. I think that was a WOW slogan at one point, "you must go to grow." My parents were corps (not anymore) and my older brother went into it and it was assumed by most that I would go too. I assumed I would at some point, too.
I think the turning point for me was around the time the corps went full time, my parents got put on probation for a while and were dropped from "corps status" (whatever that means), and the local LC's had left their million dollar business behind to become "full time". "Put you hand to the plow and don't look back" was a recent theme at the time and these LCs had taught it many times. Then they left. That made me stop and look at my life a little differently. It made me examine that assumption that I had been making... that I would go corps someday. I realised there was no "calling" for me. Thankfully, my parents raised me to find something I like and do it. They wanted me to keep God first too, but they never pushed the corps on me.
I did do many things at the urging of leadingship though. I left a good living situation to go live with a guy that was old enough to be my father and ended up acting that way to a degree. There were a lot of other things as well. When I left it seemed like my younger brother was brought in closer to the "fold" and the local leaders and he was given more responsibility. I think he deals with some of the same things you are talking about here.
It is ok to be mad at TWI. They deserve it reallly. I still get mad. I have been over talking with the Way myspacers for a while. I don't get mad over there, but I keep getting accused of being bitter. I'm not bitter. I am very happy with where I am now. I can't regret too much, but I can still get angry. If something is wrong, it is ok to get angry about it. Eccl 7:7 says "surely oppression makes a wise man mad..." so even the Bible says it is ok. We may not be talking about slavery here, but it is oppression and there is a lot wrong with TWI.
So, are you thinking or planning on leaving TWI or are you kind of stuck like some here are or have been?
Hopefully, some of this helps.
What else?
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lindyhopper
Oh yeah, other waykids.
Pmosh was raised in it. He isn't on here much anymore unless he has another screne name.
Bliss's husband is an old friend of mine from the younger years, but I don't know if he posts here and I don't know if Bliss was raised in the Way either.
I knew freeatlast was raised in it too, as well as a number of people that don't come here very often.
Pmosh's story is here. Mine is here. Maybe some of that will help you in some way.
Feel free to PM me if you what.
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Bolshevik
Lindyhopper: Eccl 7:7 says "surely oppression makes a wise man mad..."
I don't know what wisdom I have that's truly wisdom (again, raised in The Way) but anger is one thing I know I have in abundance. Like a lot of people here at Grease Spot I lost time (or just wasted it, life's not over I know.)
The free will subject is a tough one for me. In The Way, free will is like democracy. Leadership basically teaches you "How is a democracy supposed to work if everyone votes wrong?"(3rd Rock)
If ever I spoke of a concern in The Way pretty much any adult would just say "Well, foolishness is bound in the heart of a child." Well, I'm looking at my own child now. He doesn't look inherently evil.
When I was a teenager I said I didn't want to go to twig. I was told "tough, obey". Okay I said, I'll wait.
Then I was 18, hundreds of miles from home, I said "okay, time for me to make my own decisions". NOPE. Your still a kid. Your still covered by your parents. Send detailed schedules to your parents home each week and report deviations etc. etc. (a number of LCs and my parents coordinated that one, in fact an LC from a different region was instructing my parents on what to do.)
It was clear to me then that TWI = my parents = TWI.
Then the flip-flopping started. One day I'm and adult, the next under my folks, depending on the circumstance.
The entire time I was convinced that if I didn't to as I was told I would be recieving an eternal scolding from J.C. at the bema for my disobedience. If I didn't obey my parents, I would die young, because if obedience to parents guarentees long life, then the converse it true. . . Anyway, ....ed.
I've been straddling the fence for awhile. I figure I'll put the DTA class to good use. You see, the Adversary sees I'm on the fence. So he's gonna make my life all comfy and give me all sorts of stuff I want. But I know he's just goading me and is ready to pull the rug out from under me once I jump to his side. So once I do, and see he's coming for me, I just jump right back on the fence. I'll get him to bait me again, take the bait and leave the hook. You know, just play him awhile. That is what the spiritual competition is all about right? Games and prizes?
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waysider
Bolshevik
Forget about that tricking the adversary/ sitting on the fence stuff.
When I was "in", the thinking was that if life was throwing you some curves, it must be because you were "moving" The Word and the Devil was trying to stop you. Then the line of thinking was that if life was throwing you some curves, it was because you had done something wrong and it was negating your"believing". Sometimes life just sucks. It's not your fault, Gods' fault or even the Devils' fault. Life just isn't always fair. Do what you feel in your heart is the right thing and don't try to read a bunch of spiritual mumbo- jumbo into it. That stuff about the adversary being involved in every aspect of life is nothing more than an attempt to control you and force you to conform to TWI doctrine.
Here is a little side note for you.
Recently in Ohio, three graduate students were killed in a tragic car wreck. They were stopped at a red light when a car slammed into them. All three were from China. One of the philosophical struggles their families is trying to cope with is trying to understand what they did wrong to attract this tragedy.
It seems that ideolgy is also present in Eastern religious thinking as well.
Focus on what you know to be the best and most logical course of action to take (and then ask God for his blessing on your decision.) Don't try to play "spiritual chess".
That's just my opinion and everybody's got one.
Now on the democracy thing: The USA is NOT a democracy, it is a republic. That's a lesson for another time.
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Bolshevik
waysider,
I meant that last part about the fence and the devil as joke. I'm just commenting that I've got to a point where I don't believe the practices of The Way can be taught or learned. The rules are just made up as the powers that be go.
As for the China thing, that is very interesting. I googled "law of believing" and found in it three major catergories(at that time anyway) 1. Wierwille related stuff. 2. Nature worship/spiritualist/cosmic something-or-others (religions I don't understand) 3. and most predominantly, Roman Catholiscm.
(and yes I do know the US is a republic, distinct from a democracy and what I was referring to was the wierd way leadership makes a good thing so bad.)
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waysider
Bolshevik
Sometimes my posts are not a true representation of what I'm trying to say. In other words, sometimes I'm a bit of a clutz at conveying my point. I surely had no intent of saying anything that might seem condesending or offensive. I offer my appologies if I have done so.
My comment on democracy was not directed at you but at the quotation in your post.
From your posts, you seem to be a fine young man who has a sincere desire to do "the right thing" for yourself and your family. There is a real shortage of that sort of thing in the world today.
HMMM! Can't seem to find an emoticon with an olive branch, so I guess I'll just have to settle for:--------
-----------
Peace,brother!
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Bolshevik
Waysider,
sorry if I took you the wrong way also.
Peace :)
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