which is why I make a distinction between this lady's initial act of rescuing and caring for the dog, and her later callous disregard for anyone else's rights by no turning the animal over to authorities. The former due to its (apparentlly) urgent need, and the other being the (apparently) unlawful retention after the immediate crisis had passed.
Ductape- I am wondering what your car window action might have been had the dogs inside appeared to be in more imminent danger where minutes might be crucial? (i.e. they appeared to be extremely disoriented or suffering from signs of heat prostration?)
This particular situation has nothing to do with the love of the creator or lack of it. And contrary to Ducktape's presumptions, there is no 'animal rights' extremism' exhibited here; at worst there is some faulty judgement exhibited by keeping the dog. But nothing that can amount to the degrading of anyone's rights, human, property or otherwise.
Just maintaining the moral right of the dog to live and not be abused like a piece of trash. And I think that our free society can allow that.
I think our society can also but sometimes the engine that fuels these things in public (not confined to us here) is extreme emotions in the direction of animal rights over human ones. Which was why I thought it appropriate in this context.
It looks to me like this dicotomy (either animal rights OR human rights) is a false question in this discussion.
IF the question is an animal's "rights" to life without abuse/neglect vs. a human's PROPERTY rights, THAT is CRAP.
IF the question is an animal's right to be guarded from or rescued from a harmful situation and in doing so a human in put at risk of ILLNESS, INJURY or DEATH, of course the person is the priority.
BUT is that REALLY what is at issue in this scenario? I doubt it.
IF, as it appears, this debate is over whether the human's property rights are (or are at risk of) being sacrificed to rescue an animal, then to H3LL with the right of the person to have the animal and be "free" to mistreat the animal.
I do NOT believe there is anywhere (or should be anywhere) the right of anyone in the US to be free to abuse and neglect an animal, especially a pet.
IF the abuse/neglect of a pet or stray animal is being done by a child/teen, then our society demands that child be evaluated for potential to commit violent crimes against other people. Why should that NOT be the case if the perp is an adult?
I think we agree but I wasn't the one to bring human versus animal rights into the thread but I do stand on what I said regarding it should you be referring to me.
And it's been proven that many of our sicko serial killers abused animals as children so you'll have no argument from me on that point.
Dot........you are so funny. I can just picture a rodeo clown riding a bull, flaring it's smoking nostrils and stomping on Duct. Oh that's not nice...... :lol:
Excellent points by both garth and rocky
I also have to agree that this is really not about left wing liberal extremists or worshiping creation verses creator or putting animals above humans. (anybody ever watch grizzly man Tim Treadwell the bear worshiper btw?)
Although ducts post left me a bit puzzled when he posted this. "I once stopped a person from breaking the windows of a car with 3 dogs in it and the windows rolled up on a 90 degree day. Police popped the lock and towed the car after animal control took the dogs. Had it been a baby we would have broken the windows and taken the what ever followed with pride"
I, like Dot ask, why would you stop the person? Does a dog not suffer as much physically from extreme heat as a human? I know shellfish don't feel pain (or so they say) that's why you can drop a lobster in a pot live, and they are not supposed to feel it, but certainly flesh and blood animals feel pain, that's why we have laws to protect them.
I'm totally puzzled about why its okay for a dog to suffer longer than a baby. It's NOT! And I'm not equaling animals being on the same level with humans....well....let me clarify that...
I'd certainly rather have them around more than certain humans. Without a doubt.
And I know sick serial killers do abuse animals too, but I don't even care if the person who does this would never kill a human. What they are doing is wrong regardless. I love my dog more than most people. That doesn't mean I think she's on the same level.
Well................maybe a little better than certain people, and more compassionate. That's for sure.
Chatty, I have to agree about love the creator more than the creation.
Sorry that this isn't the right place for what I have to post. Of course the control freak lefties always have that attitude when the subject doesn't go their way. (Not about you Dot)
The question to me isn't who suffers how, rather I will not go to jail for your neglect or abuse of an animal, but I would risk jail for a baby. Other words, your dog is not worth a trip to jail for me.
Criminal activity should be punished no matter how "right" people perceive the reason for the violation.
Chatty, I have to agree about love the creator more than the creation.
Sorry that this isn't the right place for what I have to post. Of course the control freak lefties always have that attitude when the subject doesn't go their way. (Not about you Dot)
And I have been charged head on by a bull.
First of all, I really hate it when people who don't agree with extremist views are called liberal lefties, or radical righties for that matter. That's a cheap shot.
Second of all, I hardly think my 120 lbs rottweiler would ever be in need of your protection. God help any animal that would.
Thirdly. That's a nice bull .... story. I think you're full of them.
First of all, I really hate it when people who don't agree with extremist views are called liberal lefties, or radical righties for that matter. That's a cheap shot.
Second of all, I hardly think my 120 lbs rottweiler would ever be in need of your protection. God help any animal that would.
Thirdly. That's a nice bull .... story. I think you're full of them.
OOO Tape has something on me, Maybe he looked up my past and saw I got arrested for kicking a cop in the balls. (10 years ago) Hey, I work for an attorney and HE knows that.
Life around here just doesn't seem to run smoothly unless the size of our privates is showing. I don't much mind it anymore cause I know mine are bigger.
OOO Tape has something on me, Maybe he looked up my past and saw I got arrested for kicking a cop in the balls. (10 years ago) Hey, I work for an attorney and HE knows that.
Life around here just doesn't seem to run smoothly unless the size of our privates is showing. I don't much mind it anymore cause I know mine are bigger.
You're funny Chatty. But your right, not about you personally, but it's like that saying goes. "those who live in glass houses...."
Not even close, so if I PM you accept it will ya?
Damn, you mean I just spilled my guts about my DUI and battery charge 10 years ago and I didn't have to?
Oh well.
Sure go on. I don't think I did anything else illegal. But who knows?
Hey Duct .. you busy Tuesday morning around 8 am? I've got something you could do for me and I promise by the end of it everyone will know you really aren't FoS any longer.
I've asked a few others in chat, but they turned me down. After reading your post, I thought maybe you'd be more apt to take advantage of such a wonderful offer.
So are you game? Just meet me at the hospital Tuesday morning and I'll slip the wrist ID thingy on you when they aren't watching and from there it's clear sailing.... *you* get a free colonoscopy and everyone will know you aren't full of it anymore.
As for me, I'll be off this starvation liquid diet and avoid the nasty prep required for the test. Once it's all over with, you can email me with the results. I can't thank you enough for doing this for me. :)
Hey Duct .. you busy Tuesday morning around 8 am? I've got something you could do for me and I promise by the end of it everyone will know you really aren't FoS any longer.
I've asked a few others in chat, but they turned me down. After reading your post, I thought maybe you'd be more apt to take advantage of such a wonderful offer.
So are you game? Just meet me at the hospital Tuesday morning and I'll slip the wrist ID thingy on you when they aren't watching and from there it's clear sailing.... *you* get a free colonoscopy and everyone will know you aren't full of it anymore.
As for me, I'll be off this starvation liquid diet and avoid the nasty prep required for the test. Once it's all over with, you can email me with the results. I can't thank you enough for doing this for me. :)
Darn, any time but that (or any other time) would have worked for me :blink:
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HAPe4me
which is why I make a distinction between this lady's initial act of rescuing and caring for the dog, and her later callous disregard for anyone else's rights by no turning the animal over to authorities. The former due to its (apparentlly) urgent need, and the other being the (apparently) unlawful retention after the immediate crisis had passed.
Ductape- I am wondering what your car window action might have been had the dogs inside appeared to be in more imminent danger where minutes might be crucial? (i.e. they appeared to be extremely disoriented or suffering from signs of heat prostration?)
~HAP
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ChattyKathy
Understood Hap, thanks.
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GarthP2000
ChattyKathy,
This particular situation has nothing to do with the love of the creator or lack of it. And contrary to Ducktape's presumptions, there is no 'animal rights' extremism' exhibited here; at worst there is some faulty judgement exhibited by keeping the dog. But nothing that can amount to the degrading of anyone's rights, human, property or otherwise.
Just maintaining the moral right of the dog to live and not be abused like a piece of trash. And I think that our free society can allow that.
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ChattyKathy
Garth,
I think our society can also but sometimes the engine that fuels these things in public (not confined to us here) is extreme emotions in the direction of animal rights over human ones. Which was why I thought it appropriate in this context.
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Rocky
It looks to me like this dicotomy (either animal rights OR human rights) is a false question in this discussion.
IF the question is an animal's "rights" to life without abuse/neglect vs. a human's PROPERTY rights, THAT is CRAP.
IF the question is an animal's right to be guarded from or rescued from a harmful situation and in doing so a human in put at risk of ILLNESS, INJURY or DEATH, of course the person is the priority.
BUT is that REALLY what is at issue in this scenario? I doubt it.
IF, as it appears, this debate is over whether the human's property rights are (or are at risk of) being sacrificed to rescue an animal, then to H3LL with the right of the person to have the animal and be "free" to mistreat the animal.
I do NOT believe there is anywhere (or should be anywhere) the right of anyone in the US to be free to abuse and neglect an animal, especially a pet.
IF the abuse/neglect of a pet or stray animal is being done by a child/teen, then our society demands that child be evaluated for potential to commit violent crimes against other people. Why should that NOT be the case if the perp is an adult?
Edited by RockyLink to comment
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ChattyKathy
Rocky,
I think we agree but I wasn't the one to bring human versus animal rights into the thread but I do stand on what I said regarding it should you be referring to me.
And it's been proven that many of our sicko serial killers abused animals as children so you'll have no argument from me on that point.
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RottieGrrrl
Dot........you are so funny. I can just picture a rodeo clown riding a bull, flaring it's smoking nostrils and stomping on Duct. Oh that's not nice...... :lol:
Excellent points by both garth and rocky
I also have to agree that this is really not about left wing liberal extremists or worshiping creation verses creator or putting animals above humans. (anybody ever watch grizzly man Tim Treadwell the bear worshiper btw?)
Although ducts post left me a bit puzzled when he posted this. "I once stopped a person from breaking the windows of a car with 3 dogs in it and the windows rolled up on a 90 degree day. Police popped the lock and towed the car after animal control took the dogs. Had it been a baby we would have broken the windows and taken the what ever followed with pride"
I, like Dot ask, why would you stop the person? Does a dog not suffer as much physically from extreme heat as a human? I know shellfish don't feel pain (or so they say) that's why you can drop a lobster in a pot live, and they are not supposed to feel it, but certainly flesh and blood animals feel pain, that's why we have laws to protect them.
I'm totally puzzled about why its okay for a dog to suffer longer than a baby. It's NOT! And I'm not equaling animals being on the same level with humans....well....let me clarify that...
I'd certainly rather have them around more than certain humans. Without a doubt.
And I know sick serial killers do abuse animals too, but I don't even care if the person who does this would never kill a human. What they are doing is wrong regardless. I love my dog more than most people. That doesn't mean I think she's on the same level.
Well................maybe a little better than certain people, and more compassionate. That's for sure.
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ChattyKathy
I love the neighbors dog better than some people.
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Ductape
Chatty, I have to agree about love the creator more than the creation.
Sorry that this isn't the right place for what I have to post. Of course the control freak lefties always have that attitude when the subject doesn't go their way. (Not about you Dot)
The question to me isn't who suffers how, rather I will not go to jail for your neglect or abuse of an animal, but I would risk jail for a baby. Other words, your dog is not worth a trip to jail for me.
Criminal activity should be punished no matter how "right" people perceive the reason for the violation.
And I have been charged head on by a bull.
Edited by DuctapeLink to comment
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RottieGrrrl
First of all, I really hate it when people who don't agree with extremist views are called liberal lefties, or radical righties for that matter. That's a cheap shot.
Second of all, I hardly think my 120 lbs rottweiler would ever be in need of your protection. God help any animal that would.
Thirdly. That's a nice bull .... story. I think you're full of them.
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Ductape
You should know.
PM me if you want to know why you should know.
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RottieGrrrl
OOO Tape has something on me, Maybe he looked up my past and saw I got arrested for kicking a cop in the balls. (10 years ago) Hey, I work for an attorney and HE knows that.
That's partly the reason he hired me.
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ChattyKathy
Life around here just doesn't seem to run smoothly unless the size of our privates is showing. I don't much mind it anymore cause I know mine are bigger.
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Ductape
Not even close, so if I PM you accept it will ya?
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RottieGrrrl
You're funny Chatty. But your right, not about you personally, but it's like that saying goes. "those who live in glass houses...."
Damn, you mean I just spilled my guts about my DUI and battery charge 10 years ago and I didn't have to?
Oh well.
Sure go on. I don't think I did anything else illegal. But who knows?
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ChattyKathy
Yeah, I don't take things too serious anymore when I know it's just our habit to banter.
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RottieGrrrl
Oh God now I feel like a jerk. Duct is actually somebody very sweet. Oh well. See how we can get?
Well now everyone knows that I was drunk and kicked a cop in the yahoos too. See what I get?
I know, I know, Dot. I'll do it for you.
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ChattyKathy
Yeah I know him in real life also and I love the heck out of him even though he and I have and will have our rows no doubt.
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RottieGrrrl
Cool Chatty. Very sweet, but definetly a bit....er....what's a nice word for headstrong? ;)
I know Dot,
(I can hear her yelling at me)
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ChattyKathy
Yup he stands firm ain't no doubt about it and I dig him for it.
You know what? I'd be proud if I kicked someone in the nuts once. :)
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Ductape
FoS works for me
(Full Of ........)
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ChattyKathy
Okay now I must say I'm sorry for the
also. :unsure:
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BikerBabe
Hey Duct .. you busy Tuesday morning around 8 am? I've got something you could do for me and I promise by the end of it everyone will know you really aren't FoS any longer.
I've asked a few others in chat, but they turned me down. After reading your post, I thought maybe you'd be more apt to take advantage of such a wonderful offer.
So are you game? Just meet me at the hospital Tuesday morning and I'll slip the wrist ID thingy on you when they aren't watching and from there it's clear sailing.... *you* get a free colonoscopy and everyone will know you aren't full of it anymore.
As for me, I'll be off this starvation liquid diet and avoid the nasty prep required for the test. Once it's all over with, you can email me with the results. I can't thank you enough for doing this for me. :)
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Ductape
Darn, any time but that (or any other time) would have worked for me :blink:
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