. . . and I hope you never stop being thankful you are out of that place. At least from outside we can deal with the half-truths and other having-the-form-of-godliness-but-without-the-power-thereof (for example, saying "bless you" and not giving the Holy Spirit power of a "bless you").
When reading so much of Greasespot Cafe stuff, notes and musings, prayer requests, heartfelt release, just all kinds of stuff, I am constantly reminded of how we may have a hole to crawl out of (some of us were in that twi place 20 years and longer) but at least we are on our way up and out, and we have a cyber place to come to commiserate and comfort, encourage, laugh, moan and wail about our various tales!
Wanderer, I don't know the details on your own situation but based on what The Way says about itself on it's own site, it's not for everyone. (statements used below are copied directly from The Way.org to insure accuracy)
It is designed to teach those who are hungering and thirsting for the truth how to understand the Bible.
The Way Ministry is for serious Biblical students who want to discipline themselves to the Word— disciples. Not all people want that. We are a unique group with unique offerings of service.
Serious biblical students - well, their definition of "serious" is debatable but they do want the visitor to recognize they're not for everyone.
Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship is our ministry, and with it comes a myriad of supporting responsibilities to see that God’s Word prevails in our day and time.
Under no circumstances, including, but not limited to, negligence, shall THE WAY, its subsidiary companies, or affiliates be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, or consequential damages that result from the use of, or the inability to use, THE WAY materials. You specifically acknowledge and agree that THE WAY is not liable for any defamatory, offensive, or illegal conduct of any user. If you are dissatisfied with any of THE WAY material, or with any of THE WAY’s terms and conditions, your sole and exclusive remedy is to discontinue using theway.org.
So I think it's arguable that The Way clearly has a mission, one it believes isn't for everyone but one that they believe is worthy and that everyone who wants it will benefit from. Unless - you don't benefit from it in which case you're on your own bud, they bear no responsibility and in fact they bear no guilt if you're NOT able to use what they offer. And if they are knowingly negligent in the execution of their stated purposes - they don't want to be held at fault or accountable for that. So if you get involved with them you will be expected to hold all responsibility for anything they might do that would or could cause you harm. Not them, you.
This defines "CYA", when you have to say that you're not responsible whether a person uses or even doesn't use what you offer. Which you openly admit isn't for everyone but is in fact really really good.
Put another way they're saying if you ain't diggin' it, dig somewhere else. Beat it. Am-scray Oots-cay. If that's how you feel and that's what you're doing, rest easy, friend, you're in line with their own expectations and directives.
The idea of The Way being a unique "household" of "true believers" is a subjective one. Their definition of their own uniqueness, taken from verses like Ephesians 2:19 is contrary to what verses like 2:19 actually say, so not to worry there - you haven't mistakenly deserted the "one true household" of Christian "believers". Their attitude about their own super-value amounts to giving themselves a big fat pat on the back and a plaque to go with it, that says "We're Special!"
your question "did I abandon God and his household?"
I pray to God to serve and I work in human service , But I also think I am not doing enough.
it had a plan for us , twi did , dear God did it have a plan .. it is so much easier than thinking and deciding for our self with the LORD to trust isnt it?
Dear Wanderer, I'm sure all of us have asked this question many times. That's a good honest one.
I think it's a natural response to all the brain conditioning (ie washiing) we have been through by twi doctrine. I'ts been beaten into us that the Way is the true household of God and if you leave the household you are in a wildnerness, and that the household is where the strength of Zion is and yada yad yada. All this is designed to control, control, control.
Bunch of lies and they will have to answer for that. I'ts all to get your dollars and nothing more.
God says in the word that he will never leave us or forsake us. I was just reading PS 23 yesterday and was reminded again that goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. It's just directed towards those who put their trust in God.
Hope I'm not being preachy, but those jerks really did have a hold on me too until I figured this stuff out.
Ummm---No. You abandonded a CULT. Do you really think God would forsake you because you severed ties with an organization that misappropriates his name for their own gain? If anything, I should think he would be pleased that you said "hasta la bye-bye" to the whole lot. The very fact that people feel this way is proof in itsef how pervasive the doctrines of TWI are.
Sorry. I probably didn't convey my point very well. If anything, you should feel proud of yourself for leaving TWI, not guilty. There was a time when I felt that way too so I understand that uncertainty that comes with leaving.
The Way was and still is, as far as I know , just another one of dozens, maybe hundreds, of cults that prey upon the good nature of well-meaning people.
Oh yeah.--It bummed me out at first to find out I had invested so much into a venture that was bogus but then it felt very liberating to find out that I had no reason to feel remorse over leaving.
edited to credit GSC for helping me seperate truth from bullshirt.
Now maybe if you can get beyond the negative part of the twi past (no matter how long you were "in") , possibly you can take some productive aspects of the spiritual Word knowledge you aquired and shape a better life for yourselves? This is the question, not to dwell in the past but to press forward...right? Are we not striving to achieve our spiritual rewards and glorify God in the process? If the best part of your future is behind you, you've lost, n'est pas?
I have things stuck in my brain too. I have thought of capitalizing on it, and using the material as a stand up comic. Unfortunately, the only people who would understand it would be ex-cultist.
"Did I abandon God and his household?" The fruit in my life would indicate otherwise, yet the doubt remains.
Did you abandon The Body of Christ of which Christ is the HEAD, I think not. Stop thinking this way, the word gives revelation so you are receiving revelation. Keep up the great work.................
These days I'm accepting of almost anyone, and many are lost. I do my best to connect with the confounded and place them on a suitable path, one that seems to point to their indended destination. Kind of a very gentle undersheparding...without the pretense, without the greencard, no judgement. There are times when I don't even understand my oun path, yet I trudge on, over the next hill, grateful for the next sunrise.
This has been my post-twi philosophy as well. And it was recently thrown back in my face as a wishy-washy, non-committal way of dealing with life. The comments hurt me deeper than I would have expected. (perhaps because they came at the same time I was being hit with upheaval in some other categories of my life).
All I know is... I was a miserable unhappy wretch my last years in twi. I couldn't ask for help when I needed it because I would be accused of spiritual weakness and that just made things worse. I had nothing to offer others because every minute of my life was being sucked up by this group. And even when I wanted to reach out and help someone else, I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't trying to run the person through their fellowships or classes.
So now, while I cannot tolerate any kind of formal religious service, and while I no longer know the answers to all of life's questions, I still feel (most days) that I am a more spiritually tapped-in person today than I was when I left twi. I certainly know I am a more tolerant, kind, helpful, peaceful, and patient soul than I ever was in my twi days. And doesn't the Bible point out examples of people who show their Godliness by their actions toward others, as opposed to their religious show of service?
Sometimes I actually think twi did me a service by becoming so overtly ungodly during the nineties. At least by the time I left I knew it wasn't me, it was them. It did make it easier to walk away from everything they taught and start over.
Took the class in ‘75 or ‘76 and made it to roa two or three times. Last time in Ohio, during the early early 1980’s “they” chose my Swedish wife and I to represent Sweden! There we were “on stage” like we had just won a contest!
Well, things continued with Mr. Geer visiting us in Denmark, Norway and Sweden until about 1983 when the country coordinator for Norway killed two of his Norwegian believers (do you think he was possessed or was just a bad choice ?). Well anyway, that was the end of Bumpy at The Way and pretty much the organization in Scandinavia for Mr. Geer.
I wonder if that incident is still stuck in Chris Geer’s ear? Also, I wonder if it was public knowledge amongst all you folks back in the USA?
One thing I know for sure is when you face Jesus Christ at the judgements, it ain't gonna matter two hoots
who your mama was,
who your daddy was,
who your boss was,
who your best friends were,
who your Church/or Cult you ''hung'' with was...................
You face Him A L O N E !!!!
Just you and Him baby, just you and Him. (the relationship)
That is what matters.
I agree completely! So are we redeeming our time? Are we making the right choices for the time that is left us? Or is our life defeated because of past "mistakes" and gs becomes everyone's favorite soap? How are all these believers supposed to be "standing together", likeminded, etc.? Any ideas?
He killed them? as in murdered them?
now that would be a good reason to leave the way if I ever heard one!
wow that is sensational, details please!
Yes, he killed them, as in bang bang, your dead!! Somebody out there in lala land must have known, right? Anyway, if it's that interesting, send me a message and we'll "chat"!
This is the first time I have heard of an incident like the one you cited. Is it possible to provide details that would be of public records nature? What were the consequenses? Did "The Way" become involved in any judicial matters? I'm not asking to satisfy a thirst for soap opera type gossip. I'm asking because it would appear this incident was swept under the carpet and that would be troubling to people who should have been informed and had a right to know.
I know what you mean.... You know those outlandish things seem to stand out....The things that make sense in our lives seem to work for us time over time... It's OK. We were fed alot of stuff... We just have to filter out what we don't want...
Well, please first read what I wrote before you "doubt' my credibility. I said the "country coordinator" shot two of his Way fellow members, not Mr. Geer. Secondly, I don't really care what your opinion of me is, all you have to do is contact the Norweigian authorities. You should find what you're looking for during the years of '83 or '84. It was in all the Oslo papers. For sure there are people in twi who know what happened. But I'm not surprised by the reaction so far. Most of you were fast asleep!
This is the first time I have heard of an incident like the one you cited. Is it possible to provide details that would be of public records nature? What were the consequenses? Did "The Way" become involved in any judicial matters? I'm not asking to satisfy a thirst for soap opera type gossip. I'm asking because it would appear this incident was swept under the carpet and that would be troubling to people who should have been informed and had a right to know.
edited to correct a typing error.
Here's a clue for you...the (blonde) Way Corps girl who came to Norway the year in question was from Colorodo and her maiden initials were LP. Amazing, no one knew about this little incident? I guess damage control at hq decided it wasn't necessary for the sheep to stop grazing and hear the news. It might have had a disturbing effect on the brainwashing in progress!
I would imagine few people in the U.S. would have heard about this, especially from HQ. It would not have fit their "no negatives" policy to disseminate this kind of information. I was "in" during the years you cited, and this is the first I'm hearing of it.
Took the class in ‘75 or ‘76 and made it to roa two or three times. Last time in Ohio, during the early early 1980’s “they” chose my Swedish wife and I to represent Sweden! There we were “on stage” like we had just won a contest!
Well, things continued with Mr. Geer visiting us in Denmark, Norway and Sweden until about 1983 when the country coordinator for Norway killed two of his Norwegian believers (do you think he was possessed or was just a bad choice ?). Well anyway, that was the end of Bumpy at The Way and pretty much the organization in Scandinavia for Mr. Geer.
I wonder if that incident is still stuck in Chris Geer’s ear? Also, I wonder if it was public knowledge amongst all you folks back in the USA?
on stage like you won a contest !!!!! ha !
--
nothing is stuck in geer's ear except.... oh well never mind....
--
i remember hearing about it but i believe it was on these forums years later
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Kit Sober
Dear Wanderer,
. . . and I hope you never stop being thankful you are out of that place. At least from outside we can deal with the half-truths and other having-the-form-of-godliness-but-without-the-power-thereof (for example, saying "bless you" and not giving the Holy Spirit power of a "bless you").
When reading so much of Greasespot Cafe stuff, notes and musings, prayer requests, heartfelt release, just all kinds of stuff, I am constantly reminded of how we may have a hole to crawl out of (some of us were in that twi place 20 years and longer) but at least we are on our way up and out, and we have a cyber place to come to commiserate and comfort, encourage, laugh, moan and wail about our various tales!
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socks
Wanderer, I don't know the details on your own situation but based on what The Way says about itself on it's own site, it's not for everyone. (statements used below are copied directly from The Way.org to insure accuracy)
It is designed to teach those who are hungering and thirsting for the truth how to understand the Bible.
The Way Ministry is for serious Biblical students who want to discipline themselves to the Word— disciples. Not all people want that. We are a unique group with unique offerings of service.
Serious biblical students - well, their definition of "serious" is debatable but they do want the visitor to recognize they're not for everyone.
Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship is our ministry, and with it comes a myriad of supporting responsibilities to see that God’s Word prevails in our day and time.
Under no circumstances, including, but not limited to, negligence, shall THE WAY, its subsidiary companies, or affiliates be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, or consequential damages that result from the use of, or the inability to use, THE WAY materials. You specifically acknowledge and agree that THE WAY is not liable for any defamatory, offensive, or illegal conduct of any user. If you are dissatisfied with any of THE WAY material, or with any of THE WAY’s terms and conditions, your sole and exclusive remedy is to discontinue using theway.org.
So I think it's arguable that The Way clearly has a mission, one it believes isn't for everyone but one that they believe is worthy and that everyone who wants it will benefit from. Unless - you don't benefit from it in which case you're on your own bud, they bear no responsibility and in fact they bear no guilt if you're NOT able to use what they offer. And if they are knowingly negligent in the execution of their stated purposes - they don't want to be held at fault or accountable for that. So if you get involved with them you will be expected to hold all responsibility for anything they might do that would or could cause you harm. Not them, you.
This defines "CYA", when you have to say that you're not responsible whether a person uses or even doesn't use what you offer. Which you openly admit isn't for everyone but is in fact really really good.
Put another way they're saying if you ain't diggin' it, dig somewhere else. Beat it. Am-scray Oots-cay. If that's how you feel and that's what you're doing, rest easy, friend, you're in line with their own expectations and directives.
The idea of The Way being a unique "household" of "true believers" is a subjective one. Their definition of their own uniqueness, taken from verses like Ephesians 2:19 is contrary to what verses like 2:19 actually say, so not to worry there - you haven't mistakenly deserted the "one true household" of Christian "believers". Their attitude about their own super-value amounts to giving themselves a big fat pat on the back and a plaque to go with it, that says "We're Special!"
The whole thing's pretty weak, y'know?
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pond
your question "did I abandon God and his household?"
I pray to God to serve and I work in human service , But I also think I am not doing enough.
it had a plan for us , twi did , dear God did it have a plan .. it is so much easier than thinking and deciding for our self with the LORD to trust isnt it?
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polar bear
Dear Wanderer, I'm sure all of us have asked this question many times. That's a good honest one.
I think it's a natural response to all the brain conditioning (ie washiing) we have been through by twi doctrine. I'ts been beaten into us that the Way is the true household of God and if you leave the household you are in a wildnerness, and that the household is where the strength of Zion is and yada yad yada. All this is designed to control, control, control.
Bunch of lies and they will have to answer for that. I'ts all to get your dollars and nothing more.
God says in the word that he will never leave us or forsake us. I was just reading PS 23 yesterday and was reminded again that goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. It's just directed towards those who put their trust in God.
Hope I'm not being preachy, but those jerks really did have a hold on me too until I figured this stuff out.
I thank God I got out.
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waysider
"Did I abandon God and his household?"
Ummm---No. You abandonded a CULT. Do you really think God would forsake you because you severed ties with an organization that misappropriates his name for their own gain? If anything, I should think he would be pleased that you said "hasta la bye-bye" to the whole lot. The very fact that people feel this way is proof in itsef how pervasive the doctrines of TWI are.
Sorry. I probably didn't convey my point very well. If anything, you should feel proud of yourself for leaving TWI, not guilty. There was a time when I felt that way too so I understand that uncertainty that comes with leaving.
The Way was and still is, as far as I know , just another one of dozens, maybe hundreds, of cults that prey upon the good nature of well-meaning people.
Oh yeah.--It bummed me out at first to find out I had invested so much into a venture that was bogus but then it felt very liberating to find out that I had no reason to feel remorse over leaving.
edited to credit GSC for helping me seperate truth from bullshirt.
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Bumpy
Now maybe if you can get beyond the negative part of the twi past (no matter how long you were "in") , possibly you can take some productive aspects of the spiritual Word knowledge you aquired and shape a better life for yourselves? This is the question, not to dwell in the past but to press forward...right? Are we not striving to achieve our spiritual rewards and glorify God in the process? If the best part of your future is behind you, you've lost, n'est pas?
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likeaneagle
I have things stuck in my head too! Im not sure if I have put some in the recycle bin or throw most of it in the trash..whats trash or recyclable!!
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Ham
I have things stuck in my brain too. I have thought of capitalizing on it, and using the material as a stand up comic. Unfortunately, the only people who would understand it would be ex-cultist.
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outintexas
If nothing else, I do really well on Jeopardy when they have a Bible category.
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outandabout
I guess it was all worth it then. ha ha
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frank123lol
Mr,Ham...You can always entertain us here at the spot!!
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1 john 3:1
Did you abandon The Body of Christ of which Christ is the HEAD, I think not. Stop thinking this way, the word gives revelation so you are receiving revelation. Keep up the great work.................
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bliss
One thing I know for sure is when you face Jesus Christ at the judgements, it ain't gonna matter two hoots
who your mama was,
who your daddy was,
who your boss was,
who your best friends were,
who your Church/or Cult you ''hung'' with was...................
You face Him A L O N E !!!!
Just you and Him baby, just you and Him. (the relationship)
That is what matters.
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TheHighWay
This has been my post-twi philosophy as well. And it was recently thrown back in my face as a wishy-washy, non-committal way of dealing with life. The comments hurt me deeper than I would have expected. (perhaps because they came at the same time I was being hit with upheaval in some other categories of my life).
All I know is... I was a miserable unhappy wretch my last years in twi. I couldn't ask for help when I needed it because I would be accused of spiritual weakness and that just made things worse. I had nothing to offer others because every minute of my life was being sucked up by this group. And even when I wanted to reach out and help someone else, I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't trying to run the person through their fellowships or classes.
So now, while I cannot tolerate any kind of formal religious service, and while I no longer know the answers to all of life's questions, I still feel (most days) that I am a more spiritually tapped-in person today than I was when I left twi. I certainly know I am a more tolerant, kind, helpful, peaceful, and patient soul than I ever was in my twi days. And doesn't the Bible point out examples of people who show their Godliness by their actions toward others, as opposed to their religious show of service?
Sometimes I actually think twi did me a service by becoming so overtly ungodly during the nineties. At least by the time I left I knew it wasn't me, it was them. It did make it easier to walk away from everything they taught and start over.
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Bumpy
Took the class in ‘75 or ‘76 and made it to roa two or three times. Last time in Ohio, during the early early 1980’s “they” chose my Swedish wife and I to represent Sweden! There we were “on stage” like we had just won a contest!
Well, things continued with Mr. Geer visiting us in Denmark, Norway and Sweden until about 1983 when the country coordinator for Norway killed two of his Norwegian believers (do you think he was possessed or was just a bad choice ?). Well anyway, that was the end of Bumpy at The Way and pretty much the organization in Scandinavia for Mr. Geer.
I wonder if that incident is still stuck in Chris Geer’s ear? Also, I wonder if it was public knowledge amongst all you folks back in the USA?
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pond
He killed them? as in murdered them?
now that would be a good reason to leave the way if I ever heard one!
wow that is sensational, details please!
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Bumpy
I agree completely! So are we redeeming our time? Are we making the right choices for the time that is left us? Or is our life defeated because of past "mistakes" and gs becomes everyone's favorite soap? How are all these believers supposed to be "standing together", likeminded, etc.? Any ideas?
Yes, he killed them, as in bang bang, your dead!! Somebody out there in lala land must have known, right? Anyway, if it's that interesting, send me a message and we'll "chat"!
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waysider
This is the first time I have heard of an incident like the one you cited. Is it possible to provide details that would be of public records nature? What were the consequenses? Did "The Way" become involved in any judicial matters? I'm not asking to satisfy a thirst for soap opera type gossip. I'm asking because it would appear this incident was swept under the carpet and that would be troubling to people who should have been informed and had a right to know.
edited to correct a typing error.
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likeaneagle
Bumpy- You have my attention..
You come here and tell people to move on in life, and make the best of it, and then you say "Geer" is a murderer....and had 2 believers murdered..
I dought your credibility highly!!
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Lori
Wanderer,
I know what you mean.... You know those outlandish things seem to stand out....The things that make sense in our lives seem to work for us time over time... It's OK. We were fed alot of stuff... We just have to filter out what we don't want...
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Bumpy
Well, please first read what I wrote before you "doubt' my credibility. I said the "country coordinator" shot two of his Way fellow members, not Mr. Geer. Secondly, I don't really care what your opinion of me is, all you have to do is contact the Norweigian authorities. You should find what you're looking for during the years of '83 or '84. It was in all the Oslo papers. For sure there are people in twi who know what happened. But I'm not surprised by the reaction so far. Most of you were fast asleep!
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Bumpy
Here's a clue for you...the (blonde) Way Corps girl who came to Norway the year in question was from Colorodo and her maiden initials were LP. Amazing, no one knew about this little incident? I guess damage control at hq decided it wasn't necessary for the sheep to stop grazing and hear the news. It might have had a disturbing effect on the brainwashing in progress!
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Kevlar2000
Bumpy,
I would imagine few people in the U.S. would have heard about this, especially from HQ. It would not have fit their "no negatives" policy to disseminate this kind of information. I was "in" during the years you cited, and this is the first I'm hearing of it.
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excathedra
on stage like you won a contest !!!!! ha !
--
nothing is stuck in geer's ear except.... oh well never mind....
--
i remember hearing about it but i believe it was on these forums years later
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